When someone says "I don't believe in god" they are doing a huge disservice to atheists everywhere and this is why:

1. It assumes we know what you mean by "god."

2. It bolsters monotheists' beliefs because they think you're addressing their god specifically, albeit negatively, but you're still making them feel special.

Isn't it better to not give them any ammo to begin with? Why assume we know what they're talking about, and why let them assume you're talking about their god specifically?

Isn't it better to say "I don't believe in any gods?"

This phrase seriously pisses off a lot of monotheists because you marginalize their god as just one of a number of god claims that you don't feel the need to address specifically. That's a great start.

Plus, it places the burden of proof back on the theist because you haven't already accepted their claim that there is only one god in which you can either beleive or not believe.

I think the best way to cut through theistic nonsense is to remove all assumptions and make them start from scratch. Since the burden of proof is on them, make them prove everything. Until they can prove that a god exists they have no business asserting that there is only one. Therefore "I don't believe in god" doesn't make sense.

"I don't believe in any gods" is much better in my humble opinion.

I could be wrong, though.

I also hate that phrase.
the term "believe in" just doesn't make sense. If I say I believe in you then it really means I support you.

A more correct phrase would be "I don't beleive gods are real."

I don't like the phrase because it implies a lack of belief... I prefer to say along the lines of "I believe that there is no god".

That's silly. Why do you believe that? How can you prove a negative claim?

Antitheism vs atheism. It's just differing degrees of the same mindset.

I don't believe in ancient Hebrew mythology.

or

I don't believe in greco-roman-judean demigods.

or

I don't trust men who claim to be speaking on behalf of a deity.

or

I don't believe in ancient superstitions.

Any one of the above would suit the occasion for me, should it arise.

You believe in God? Fine. You don't believe in God? Fine.

But you "trust men who claim to be speaking on behalf of a deity"? --Look out! <cue scary music> because THAT's where all the problems begin!

That's the basic atheist stance. The burden of proof is on the person making a positive claim - ie. that a God or Gods exist. The default position is no belief until the positive claims can be substantiated.

I think what you wrote is reasonable. What is meant by god? Which god? One god or many gods? It's healthy for religious believers to think through these sort of questions.

Dammit - carpooling to a gig, and the woman I'd invited to ride with me kept pressing me about my church attendance, beliefs - JFC, how is it anyone else's business? Eventually answered her badgering by saying I don't believe any gods are real. She acted like I'd admitted to being a pedophile.

Downright bitchy to me the rest of the day, and I had to give her a ride back home afterwards, but I didn't want to!

I am sick, sick, sick of all the nasty, bitchy christians. I usually try to hide my lack of superstition regarding ancient mythology, but sometimes it doesn't work very well. I shouldn't have to hide and pretend. They sure as hell don't!

"I'd rather not get into a religious discussion with you, if that's alright." (Repeat as needed.) I think telling people I don't believe in whatever claptrap they're into gives them too much personal information that I don't really want to share. I find that religious people are looking for any opportunity to flip out about something, and telling them I'm an atheist is all they need. I'd rather just avoid whatever land mines they are laying down.

I'm atheist, and I think both replies are reasonable. To say "I don't believe in God" is a simple, all encompassing declaration. It is true that your suggested alternate, "I don't believe in any Gods", marginalizes whichever God the listener believes in, but that is not always my goal. It's not my job to turn the world atheist, and I'm not looking for a fight (usually).

When I say, "I don't believe in God", I am simply stating a lack of belief, not any affirmative theological position. I get annoyed when believers classify atheism as just one of many faith positions I could choose from the belief buffet. By saying I DON't believe, I am correctly defining the difference: it's not that I believe in God differently than others, I simply do not believe there is a God. I don't have faith because my belief system does not require it.

I need to remember to stick to my guns, so to speak. "I'm not going to get into a religious discussion with you. It's personal and private. Respect that or you get out and walk beside the freeway."

That's the only thing that I could have done, and make an even worse enemy, if possible.

My approach is to make the religious person feel like the ridiculous one by asking simple questions like, "how do you feel about zeus?" "do you really think snakes can talk?" "what's your position on the shape of the world? flat or round?"

You could always blame the victim and say that Mary was asking for it with lines like "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word."

Hear. Hear. When religious people ask me if I believe in god I usually just ask them to define what they meant by 'god' before answering. That usually throw them off the game plan pretty well...

Make them start from scratch..

Thats actually a very good point... Most people define their religion by the teachers of that religion., not with a firm definition of "God". They talk about Christ, or a prophet, or some book of rules... How many really understand the God they profess to believe in and want to return to. The prophets and teachers are "fleshed out" characters, while God is some faceless law giver. Now that I think about it, perhaps the old polytheists understood their gods better than the monotheists today.

I agree. I wouldn't argue that every religious believer needs to have a degree in theology or something like that. But it would be nice if people thought more deeply about what they mean when they use the word 'god'. A BYU religion professor means something different by god than what a Catholic theologian may mean. Aristotle's unmoved mover had little in common with the contentious gods depicted in the Iliad.

The way I look at is sort of like "Who could imagine radio 100 years ago? A voice through the air? Ridiculous!"

That's why I stick with Hamlet: "There are more things in Heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy, Haratio."

No matter what wacky things "religious" people try to stick down our throats, they will all be very surprised at how different the afterlife (if there is one) really is.

I think there are plenty of surprises in the future.

However, if you lived a hundred years ago, would you believe using faith about a radio which you couldn't even conceive? No. It wouldn't make sense to say you believe or not since you can't define them.

I simply lack beliefs about the radios (gods, unknown surprises, etc.) in the future because I can't even define them. I don't see any sense in making things up just because I might be able to imagine something beyond what we know now.

I have no idea who will be surprised about an afterlife or if there is one. There is no evidence for it. So, to address Kolobian's original point, I would say...

Instead of "I don't believe in gods," I would probably say "I lack belief in things like gods." This lets them know I classify all sorts of made up things the same as their claims. It also means I lack belief ("a" without "theism" belief in gods") instead of asserting I use belief either way as a way to assert knowledge.

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2011 09:39PM by steve benson.

I would actually like to see a list of all the gods that mankind has ever "believed in". I hate to think of the damage to the rainforest though if that list was every actually printed on paper.

Elohim really is "just one more".

I like to say, "Which Gods are you talking about? Mythology just fascinates me!" If they then bear their testimony it is nice to hum the song "Feelings" as an accompaniment.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2011 08:45PM by blueorchid.

I have no evidence of your god(s) and I don't just rely on feelings.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2011 09:47PM by the god of thunder.

It does make sense to ask someone to what they meant by the word "God" before answering. I mean, it is possible after hearing their definition that you would say, "Ya, I believe too."

So for me, if I hear a believer or an atheist use the word God, I ask what they mean.

I don't need anybody to define religion or spirituality for me.

I don't need another layer between myself and what I seek, or don't seek.

The use of the word "believe" bothers me in this context. To me belief is an emotion. I don't know what to offer you instead.

I don't say, "I believe Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior" I say, "Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior."

Don't hate me for believing!

I always try to say, "I don't believe in any gods."or "I believe in nothing supernatural." That way i rule out all spirituality and stuff like karma.

The Seven Day Adventists I know have got this thing with telling me and other atheists, "When I find out about the god that most atheists say that don't believe in I completely agree that that god doesn't exist." and "They don't believe because they don't know the true characteristics of god." There was even a video about and encounter a S.D.A. had on an airplane with an Atheist. It was a very familiar story.

I don't believe in any gods is a much better way to go.