Just another venting post to add to all the others... I know I probably need to go back to my therapist and probably will, and I can't really go into the details, but I'll just say that things could be better in my life right now.

It used to be that I could "blame God", after which, being the dutiful TBM that I was (even when inactive), I would then blame myself, because, I just wasn't doing *enough*. There was just something that I wasn't doing right, so I was to blame. But, not because I had problems that I needed to work though, but because I simply wasn't good enough.

Now, I have no "God" to blame, "God" has become a word that I exclaim when I hit my thumb with a hammer, it holds not *real* meaning. I have given up any belief in "God".

That may sound sad to some, but now I've realized that there is nothing "godly" that I can do to get myself out of depression when it comes on... I have to take responsibility for myself and try to find actual solutions for my problems, rather than wondering if I was doing enough church work and maybe if I did a bit more, then I could be happy. Extra work is not the solution. It never was. I have to look at myself and try to figure out what the source of the problem is and try to correct it... It all sounds so logical now...

I don't really know the point of this post other than to express somethings that are on my mind... I'm sure I'll snap out of my little slump, I always do...

There have been times i have had thoughts like these.

Who to blame? Some times you just need a good place to dump some blame!

My husband had a good idea. He decided that every time something goes wrong he's going to blame it on Joseph Smith. Can't find the car keys? Damn that joe.

These days we blame everything on him. no matter how large or small. At least we get a good laugh out of it.

That is way too funny! I'm going to have to do that now... "Damn Joe!" could make a great addition to my vocabulary.

mia Wrote:
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> My husband had a good idea. He decided that every
> time something goes wrong he's going to blame it
> on Joseph Smith. Can't find the car keys? Damn
> that joe.
>
> These days we blame everything on him. no matter
> how large or small. At least we get a good laugh
> out of it.


I like it!!! Joe damn it.

I blame my parents. I love my parents but my dad was a convert and my mum spent many years inactive before "returning to the fold". If only they had made better decisions...

Alternatively, if it wasn't for the church, I wouldn't even exist. And nor would my wife, and nor would my kids. So maybe it's best just to blame Joseph Smith and his penis.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2011 04:33PM by freeman.

Damn Joe's penis!

But it requires that one stops making all of life about right and wrong.
When we blame others, we take on victim status.

It's really quite prissy.

who need good advice in this very area. She provides it --succinctly.

Susie is practically a Zen master when it comes to managing an ongoing marriage with a TBM. Those who can benefit from her wisdom save their families. Which is a big deal. She has spent countless hours helping people here who are desperate to hear from someone who walks the walk.

I could have reported your post, but I think it's important for you to know how much we value Susie.

No need to stop the penis-blaming, though, carry on.

Anagrammy

+1. Serena's vendetta against Susie Q is getting tiresome

She is the Zen Master, master of the middle way, the dialectical, the paradoxical, the art of being human. I get lots of wisdom from her (and annagrammy and bona dea and robertb and others) Don't mess with our Susie.

Even though I am babysitting for my daughter's conference and definitely boinky from lack of sleep, I must share this story.

Our judgment of all communication is so very colored by our paradigm, the culture, our predispostions and a host of other things. Nothing taught me that more than the card I sent my sister after she said she didn't want me in her life.

I sent my picture and said that she should always remember that we grew up together. That I am someone who knows her for her whole life, etc., that I know better than anyone what kind of a person she is. My heart would always be open to her,etc.

She wrote me back that she couldn't believe the horrible, sarcastic card I sent her. She said she would have thought I would try to mend things up, but no. I was flabbergasted. I called her and asked her how she possibly could think that was not a loving card?

She read it back to me laced with sarcasm..."No one knows better than I what kind of a person you are..., etc." Everything I said could be taken both ways and she chose the negative interpretation for everything, even "I love you so much."

It was an experience that helped send me on a journey to discover how I myself may be negatively coloring everything I hear from people I already have decided are "bad."

Anagrammy

She's also condescending and dismissive most of the time and THAT gets tiresome.

We must be reading different posts, then. Susie is a breath of fresh air compared to all the "stupid cult" comments and I find her neither condescending nor dismissive.

Her advice is always spot-on. The blame game is a black hole. It's much better to simply take responsibility for yourself.

If it's ok for you to blame someone else for your decisions, then it's also ok for the person you blamed to blame their bad decisions on someone else, who would also then be allowed to blame their bad decisions on someone else, and so on and so forth until you get to a point where there's no one else to blame and you have to pour blood on a goat and slap its ass to carry everyone's blame off with it so everyone can feel justified.

But that just sounds silly, doesn't it?

then it is appropriate to sit down and consider whether or not that is true.

When you are a member of a church that controls you by declaring you unfit and unworthy at every turn, then assigning "blame" to the correct entity is a healthy and positive experience.

Susie has good advice for SOME people in their walk in life. It is toxic for others. I believe the biggest error she commits is assuming (or at least writing as if she assumes) her advice is the right thing for everyone.

At times her writing and style of writing has made people feel attacked.

Wait, someone on the internet gave you free advice that you disagreed with? We can't let that happen can we?

So, just to be clear, she gave advice, advice that she obviously gave with the hope of trying to help. You disagree with it, even felt, for whatever reason that it was negative... So you now feel like you should blatantly attack? How is that any better than what you are accusing her of doing?

She was trying to give advice... That seems obvious, and to be honest it's what I needed to hear a the time. Blame is for the Church. She reminded me that I'm in control, sometimes things don't happen for a reason, there's often no one to blame. I need to figure out how to solve my problems without having to first point my fingers at everyone or even me.

She was trying to help. Most people, when they read advice that they disagree with will simply post their opposing view, and let the OP read though and decide what works for them. What is your goal in a direct attack against someone you disagree with?

<<< When you are a member of a church that controls you by declaring you unfit and unworthy at every turn, then assigning "blame" to the correct entity is a healthy and positive experience.>>>


As long as the correct entity is yourself, I totally agree with you. But blaming a business for trying to take your money is just silly.

The church declares you unfit and unworthy because if it declared you fit and worthy you would have no more need of it and you would stop giving it your money. That's the M.O. of all religions.

All insitutions attain a certain momentum to preserving their own self-interest. The #1 self-interest of anything is survival. Of course the church is going to do whatever is necessary to make you depend on it.

The church we belonged to sets an unreachable standard attached to a guilt trip that reaching this standard is the only reason for your earthly existence. You have to admire its simplicity, really.

Blame the church? No. I blame myself. And I congratulate myself for finally leaving. Congratulating myself cancelled out the blaming myself and now I'm just myself.

You know what is tiresome, when someone starts a topic with asking for advice or help and someone gives it, then several people (not the OP) jumps on that person, not for the advice they gave here, but because they didn't like their advice elsewhere... To me, that's dismissive of the OP (yes, that happens to be me), and condescending to everyone around you.

SusieQ#1's advice to me here and elsewhere that I've read, has always been given with thought and attention and usually a lot of care. You may disagree with it, and if you do, fine, state why as it relates to the topic, even offer a different view. But you don't have jump in someone else's thread, not add any value to the conversation for the sole purpose of stating that you don't like someone.

Finally Free! Wrote:
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>
The whole point of the Recovery notion is that others will add their experience and understanding and advice.
It's a matter of finding what works for you, and discarding everything else. We are not all alike. I have philosophies I live by that work for me. If they don't work for you, there is no need to be rude about it.

Generally, I don't bother replying to someone who is just mean-spirited, or disrespectful, or thinks they know what I am thinking. All of that is so contrary to any kind of recovery, it is not worth my time to respond to.

But back to the topic: people seem to love to blame others - and the OP and many comments seems to be a kind of tongue in cheek poke at how prevalent that is.

Yes, I like to joke and have fun and laughter is a major part of my personal exit process from Mormonism. I write parody and satire also.

There is a serious side also and that was what my comment was about. Remembering we are not victims, which I see is a big problem for many who leave the LDS Church. Too often people play the blame game and never get past it and move onto any kind of recovery, which I sum up as making peace with it.

When I first tentatively snuck on this website about 5 years ago, SusieQ#1 was far and away the most helpful responder to my concerns and questions. She has been an immense help to me as I have disassociated myself from TSCC while maintaining a marriage with a TBM spouse. Thanks Susie!

2thdoc Wrote:
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Thank you for your kind words!

I'm actually working on this very thing... I'm trying to remember that life isn't really about right or wrong. Sometimes it's about making it though the day, others it's enjoying the happy times that really are more often than not. Everyone is doing their best and there is no real agenda for or against me. There is no one/nothing to blame.

Sometimes though, when then clouds have gathered and things look pretty bleak, it's hard not to fall back on old habits. Back in the church everything was black and white, either I was doing good and getting blessed or I was doing something wrong getting cursed. No matter what, I was the one to be blamed.

Thanks for helping remind me...

Damn Joe! I like that one.

More seriously though, when I get down on myself, I just remember that really all of my decisions were really a function of my genetics, my environment, and maybe some randomness. That's not to say I'm not free to make better decisions in the future, but Susan's right: we should leave the blame game. Neuroscience demands it, imho :)

Just a thought, I hope it's helpful. I wish you the best of luck.

The way I deal with a desire to find blame is by considering that the causes for my experiences are too numerous and too complex to pin down. Every time that I think I have found the root cause for something I realize that this person or thing had influences that are also hard to isolate.

Judging individual thoughts and behaviors as helpful or unhelpful to accomplishing a specific goal is fairly easy. However, when I start trying to trace my circumstances to something as complex as a specific person or experience I find that I am decreasing my willingness to look at my current habits and aspirations and make changes that are good for me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2011 08:12PM by Brian M.

In all fairness, she has a habit of "cleaning up" by sweeping everything into a box and putting it somewhere. But we blame her when three feet of snow gets dumped overnight too. (Why mess with a good thing?) ;)

Blaming may be emotionally tranferring some sort of control to the one blamed, subconsciously. Maybe necessitating forgiveness or similar attitude (love?), at a later stage, in order to gain total control yourself (peace of mind, getting over it, change perspective).

Well there are two ways of looking at it all imho.

There is the psychological gotta work it out on a serious level. Have done more than my share of that.

AND lighten up and have a laugh now and then.(need to do more of)

Can't really blame my parents. They didn't(don't) know they were being deceived. Same goes for a lot of other Mo's. It's difficult if not impossible to tell who is who sometimes.

So when i just can't take all of the deep thinking 24/7 I will blame Joe. But now I will blame his penis! lol

Every time you blame god you are IMHO misplacing blame. Now you are free to assess the situation, and look were the blame belongs and can take appropriate actions based on a realistic assessment of fault.

Oh, and if that fails, I always blame Chuck. I have been blaming my College roommate Chuck ever since college. It was well known in our circle of friends that if something had gone wrong, Chuck was likely to be right in the middle of it. He was the most accident prone person I ever met.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2011 12:37AM by MJ.

As mormons we were trained to blame ourselves for just about anything.

As exmormons we can see that we don't have to accept unearned fault.

The trick is to place the blame but let it go whenever possible. We did the best we could as mormons and not that we're free we hopefully no longer have to dwell on emotions that drag us into the mire. But if that happens, at least there's no need to feel guilty about it.

And this is why I love this board.

There is so much great advice here. I've been reminded that I'm in control of my life now. Reminded of the things that really are true... That I am in control of my life. When things go wrong I can and should analyze things and figure things out. Prayer (which I haven't fallen back on, thankfully) and blame hold no real answers...

When all else fails I can always blame Joseph Smith, his penis, Canada (I don't watch South Park, it was still "evil" to me when it first came on, but I heard this when it was on the Oscars, absolutely hilarious), or perhaps some accident prone person I knew in the past... Perhaps one of my missionary companions... I'll have to think that over some...

Anyway... Thanks to everyone, your advice has been invaluable and things are starting to look up... I love the Christmas season and my wife and I are going to the town Christmas tree lighting tonight, which should brighten our moods appreciably.

It took me years to get over that mind trap. Prayers ran through my head several times a day and especially if I faced one of life's callenges, large or small.

Praying for me was a way of not facing up to situations as well as I finally learned to do.

You're way ahead of where I was.

I think blame, in general, is counterproductive. It's one thing to examine a situation and try to determine your share of the responsibility for it, and it's a whole other kettle of fish to blamestorm so that none of the responsibility for fixing your situation lies at your own doorstep.

I will only participate in blamestorming to the degree where you have to determine at what point or points things started going south so you can take steps to mitigate, eliminate, or avoid repeating the same set of circumstances. Anything else is just avoiding personal responsibility.

After you take a step back and think hard about what you wish to blame something else for, change what you think needs change, to the degree you can control change, and make your peace with what you can't.

ETA: Also, when all else fails, I blame the Puritans. ;>)

You might also look into the psychological concept of "external locus of control" vs. "internal locus of control." Those with an external locus of control are always looking to blamestorm. Those with an internal locus of control are usually looking to take on their fair share of responsibility and not let the rest bother them. I'd link you to Wikipedia or something, but I'm on deadine and shouldn't even be using time to post this.

Side note: I hate it when a good discussion gets derailed by personal sniping at any one given poster. Also completely pointless, counterproductive and the sniping says a lot more about the sniper than it does about the target of the sniping. I may not always agree with SusieQ#1 because I think sometimes she's a bit dismissive and somewhat of an apologist for the church. SOMETIMES. But the other times, her posts are dead-on. If you think she's full of beans, you can ignore her posts without having to comment on each and every one. If you think she's the Bomb, then you can copy and paste and save all of her posts for time and all eternity and sleep with them under your pillow at night. But derailing the discussion to snipe at her doesn't help anyone.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2011 02:25PM by dogzilla.

Read the apologists and you'll see why. In fact, I am one of their enemies--a badge I wear proudly on one of their web pages.

Do not confuse my personal passion for the RIGHTS of human beings to their personal beliefs with being an apologist for any religion.

Yup. I am for religious rights. I am for being LDS, or Catholic, or Baptist, or ....(fill in the blank)...as that is your RIGHT.
It's mostly a heritage in many cases.
That is not an apologist.

This thread is about blame. Blame anyone or anything you want. It's your life! :-) There are consequences that come with that, but you'll figure it out,......hopefully! :-)

But by all means, if it makes you feel better, pile on.