Last Saturday I went out to lunch with my SIL. The one that got married last year and was sealed in the temple in August. Her teenage son from her first marriage has had a "problem" with masturbation for years - the whole family knows about it. He wasn't able to advance in the priesthood at the same age his friends did, because the bishop wouldn't approve him for the priesthood once my nephew confessed. Most Sundays he can't take or pass the sacrament. The bishop of her ward is being very strict on my nephew's "morals" being correct before he can participate in the ward in any way. Even my very TBM SIL got fed up with her son constantly being humiliated and quit going to church for a time, about a year and a half ago. When her bishop saw this, he relented and let my nephew get the priesthood but insisted that my nephew text him daily and let him know if he was able to refrain from masturbating that day.

So time goes on, they are working on the "problem", SIL gets married and to her new husband's credit, the first year of their marriage new husband kind of holds back and develops a level of trust with his new step son. He doesn't try to be the big, bossy parent right off the bat. But then, in June or July - right before their August temple sealing - he notices my nephew wasn't taking the Sacrament. So he asks SIL what that was all about and she tells him the story. Suddenly, new BIL wants to get involved. He changes the password on the computer - nephew hacks in - takes away the cell phone - no improvement - takes away the car etc... But despite all the "help" from Mom's new husband and the bishop, nephew is still acting like a normal, healthy, teenage male. So the bishop wouldn't write him a temple recommend and my nephew wasn't allowed to go see his mom be sealed to her new husband nor be sealed to his mom and new dad, like his two younger siblings. (Birth dad has been a total deadbeat dad and gladly gave permission for both the adoptions and temple sealings so he could get out of child support).

The reason SIL was telling me this story is the previous Sunday, my nephew took the sacrament and she was rejoicing that her son now had a dad who held him accountable for his behavior. And she told me how working with the bishop was finally helping her son. I told her I thought her bishop was a pervert. That comment was not appreciated but she didn't get mad either. I told her that it was my understanding bishops and mission presidents were told not to ask and if the boy felt a need to confess, he should be told to "try to refrain" but not made a public spectacle of. She hadn't heard that before and thought her bishop was following the church line exactly - maybe a little excessively - but still in a God Approved way.

Does anyone know what the CHI says about dealing with masturbation issues in teens? I know every bishop is going to do what he wants but what are the exact instructions coming down from Salt Lake? I wish I could find something to convince my SIL to get off her son's case and get the bishop to back off as well. I'm worried she's causing long-term sexual hangups in her son. Her first husband left the marriage because he was having multiple affairs and my SIL, who's always been a prude according to my husband (her brother) seems like she is way overreacting to her son's behavior, worried he'll turn out like his birth father. And I know I probably should just mind my own business but I love my little nephew and hate to see him being put through all this unnecessary trauma.

I am hoping they are making the rest of the little masturbators wash their dirty little hands before they touch the bread.

Deco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am hoping they are making the rest of the little
> masturbators wash their dirty little hands before
> they touch the bread.


What is the point of your post?

I hope that someone makes you wash your hands after wanking off and before you shake someone's hands. Also don't forget to wash every time you pee pee.

I think what Quoth is saying is that all the other boys probably masturbate too they just don't wank and tell.

Deco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am hoping they are making the rest of the little
> masturbators wash their dirty little hands before
> they touch the bread.

I hope you go away any never come back. Can you do that, huh? Can ya?

-------------------------------------------------------
> I am hoping they are making the rest of the little
> masturbators wash their dirty little hands before
> they touch the bread.

I agree! The rest of the boys figured out early on that if they lie about wanking off, they won't get in trouble and no one will find out about it. Unfortunately for CA girl's nephew, he hasn't learned how to play the game. Shame on the adults in this sad tale.

There are two kinds of people in the world...those that masturbate and those that lie and say they don't.

...that made me sick. What a inappropriate invasion of this boys privacy...and to make it a public spectacle for years! This poor boy. I wish I had some sort of information that could help you. I wonder if his self esteem could ever recover from the shame of it all.

You are right, it makes me sick. They are making a public spectacle of their son's most private business. If he ever figures it all out there is a good chance he is going to hate them for it. They are damaging their relationship with their son-- for time and all eternity.

It's worse than announcing at Thanksgiving dinner that 12 year old johnny still wets the bed in an attempt to shame him in to stopping. You just don't do it.

I don't know what the CHI says, to help you, but somebody needs to teach that boy that is Honorable to lie when it is protecting your own privacy, especially that. It's so important in life to learn that there are some things that are nobody's business but your own.

No one has the right to know those things. EVER.

really doesn't help matters.

poor kid. sick cult.

spanking the monkey is something normal kids openly joke about at that age. Constantly.

Just an anonymous kid in cyberspace who someone out there might be able to help - if they have the right advice.

let's hope this helps some other needlessly troubled soul.

It is funny though, how among the scouts that age they joke about it constantly. Up there with farting and pooping.

It's take a sick, sick cult to ostracize someone and make it a public issue.

"So the bishop wouldn't write him a temple recommend and my nephew wasn't allowed to go see his mom be sealed to her new husband nor be sealed to his mom and new dad, like his two younger siblings."

That's fucking disgusting.

That really makes me fucking angry. Poor kid shouldn't have to deal with any of this shit.

This doesn't address the issue at hand, but as a matter of policy, the church doesn't allow unendowed children into the temple to witness temple weddings of their siblings, regardless of whether they meet worthiness standards. Only adult men who have served missions for the church, and temple-married women are allowed to witness other family members' temple weddings.

He was supposed to be sealed to his mom and his new, adopted father. His two younger siblings were sealed to the mom and dad that day.

That's incorrect. My daughter at 14 got to see her dad remarry in the temple. And she wasn't there to be sealed to them.

It was awesome too, because she got to see the whole temple get-up everyone was dressed in and immediately lost her belief in all things mormon.

There is nothing in the handbook on masturbation and no instructions are given on how to deal with it.

Or was this always just an unwritten rule that every body seemed to know and ask about?

I'm not calling you a liar, Paternoster - unless of course you are lying for the Lord - at which point - carry on.

But if someone knows the instruction manual, it's you.

Raptor Jesus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Or was this always just an unwritten rule that
> every body seemed to know and ask about?
>
> I'm not calling you a liar, Paternoster - unless
> of course you are lying for the Lord - at which
> point - carry on.
>
> But if someone knows the instruction manual, it's
> you.


What the handbook says, or otherwise, is only a part of the story.

The "Little Factory" speach established a *culture* within Mormonism. A culture which persists to this day.

It's other infamous parallel is the issue of oral sex.

When it comes to manufacturing shame, the upper eschelons of Mormonism are consummate masters of the art.

that tells bishops to not behave like Masturbation Nazis, I can point out to SIL that her bishop is not following procedure. She probably wouldn't listen to me about her bishop unless I could prove he was the disobedient one, disregarding procedure from Salt Lake. Then I'd have a chance to make her see how wrong that all is.

If the handbook supports the bishop or says nothing at all, then it's not helpful to me in breaking through to her.

The culture does follow the BKP pamphlet and sometimes it's hard to get Mormons to ignore the culture and really listen to what the church teaches - when the two conflict, I mean.

I can't imagine the humiliation that boy must feel.

And furthermore, every deacon, teacher and priest in that ward is playing with themselves. That Bishop is deluded if he believes it when they say they aren't.

Your SIL is sexually abusing her son and encouraging other adults to also sexually abuse him. The only difference between her son and the other boys in the ward is he has been targeted as a victim to suffer ongoing abuse.

I'm certain the other boys have confessed to masturbating but their level of punishment will never be the same as this poor boy's because they just aren't as vulnerable. Bish probably knows if he takes things to this level with the other boys their parents will start to take offense.

He wasn't welcome at his own mother's wedding and had to sit out while the rest of the family watched? That is just sick, sick, sick, sick to publicly ostracize and embarrass him for being a normal teenage boy.

I agree with this being sexual abuse. Is there no one in the extended family who could take him aside and have a talk with him and tell him he's normal? That poor kid.

Because when this first started, he didn't have a dad to stand up for him - just the son of a single mom that maybe the bishop thought he could pick on. I'm sure the bishop knows why my SIL divorced and maybe he worries my nephew will turn out like his father, the way I know my SIL does.

The reason the bishop knows is that my nephew felt the need to confess.

Moira, before SIL got married, she asked DH to talk to my nephew about it when they (the boys) were out on a camping trip. DH and this nephew have always been pretty close. Not to mention that DH knew his nephew had this "problem" - just to see if he could bring up the subject and give advice. My son was on that same camping trip and somehow DH was able to bring up the subject with both boys. But I think SIL wasn't that happy about how things turned out though because DH told the boys it was normal and while they should try to refrain, they also shouldn't beat themselves up about it if they slipped up - all boys slipped up once in a while. I don't think SIL was expecting her brother to take such a liberal "no big deal" approach but rather to talk about how important it was not to masturbate. Now DH doesn't want to interfere in what he says is the new husband's role.

CA Girl, you should call your sister on it.

And tell her your scoutmaster told you to.

right?

Makes my heart ache too.

Bishop = abuser.

Stepfather = abuser.

Mom = condoner of abuse.

Boy = Innocent Victim of horrendous sexual AND EMOTIONAL abuse, and UNNECCESSARY abuse as well! He will more than likely have some major problems ahead. I sure do hope I am wrong.

Isn't there *ANYONE* who can let this poor young fellow know that he is NOT a pervert and is not doing anything wrong? That it is the so-called adults?? That he is OKAY???

EVERYTHING he says is correct.

CA girl, send your SIL the following link and ask her what the difference is between this boy's situation and her DS’s.

(Story of Kip Eliason, a highly thought of, devout Mormon youth who committed suicide due to the shame and self-hatred he felt because of his inability to refrain from masturbation):

http://www.affirmation.org/suicide_info/sin_and_death_in_mormon_country.shtml

ANY bishop who demands a daily report regarding a youth’s masturbation for that day is a sick pervert! And I echo Stalker Dog's plea: "Isn't there *ANYONE* who can let this poor young fellow know that he is NOT a pervert and is not doing anything wrong? That it is the so-called adults?? That he is OKAY???"

But imagine how mortified he'd be if his AUNT discussed it with him. DH might talk to him again but he doesn't want to overstep into the new dad's territory. I need to try again to convince DH something needs to be done. I told him the story and he just shook his head - he doesn't like to criticize a family member and he just shakes his head when he disapproves The boy's grandfather wouldn't address the subject and almost certainly agrees with his daughter (the boy's mom). The other uncle lives out of state. The boy cousins around his age are too young to know what is going on and too young to involve.

I will wrack my brain trying to think of anyone else but most of the men my nephew is closest to are so TBM, they probably would think the parents and bishop are doing the right thing.

...including trying to get some ideas from this board.

Apparently every male relative you have thought of, is blind to the trauma your nephew is experiencing because of this matter. So it may come down to you. If it does, here's what you might say, if you were to have a few moments alone with the nephew:

“Forgive me for bringing this up. I want you to know that every single male masturbates; that masturbation is normal, and the only reason any Mormon youth or man passes a “worthiness” interview is because he lies about it!

“It makes me *sick* the way that Mormon youth are humiliated and shamed for doing something that is perfectly normal!

“Being coerced into reporting about it to a bishop or any other adult is sexual abuse; and since apparently no one in the family have the balls to tell you that, I thought I would.”

CA girl, only you can know when or whether the above would be appropriate. But the absence of other practical suggestions, I thought I would at least offer it. IMO it could be a great help for him to know that someone else in his world is on his side and has no condemnation for him for doing something perfectly normal.

Good luck! Please let us know how this goes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2011 03:49PM by WiserWomanNow.

+1 but I would say all girls too. Most do. Church just focuses more on boys unless the bish is unusually perverted.

However, I thought that the youth might relate better to having just the male side spoken of. If he doesn't even realize that all guys masturbate, it might be a bit much for him to hear another shocker at the same time, i.e. that girls masturbate as well.

You wouldn't have to be specific, but you could say something along the lines of, "If there is ever anything you want to talk about, anything, I'll tell you exactly what I think. Be it about girlfriends, sex, church, etc..."

My aunt and uncle made me this offer when I was a young adult, knowing that I had grown up sexually repressed (what good mormon girl doesn't?). It was nice to know that I could ask them anything without fear of judgement, and I did.

Maybe shed some light like it did on "Hot Sauce Mom".

I would do it myself but am not close enough to any similar situation to give background info.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2011 02:28PM by Twinker.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2011 02:31PM by WiserWomanNow.

As someone that was in almost the exact same situation when I was both a teen and a Young Adult (roughly 10 years total) I have the utmost sympathy for your nephew. What he is going through is absolute hell and it has all kinds of negative effects on your life. This is a form of abuse and the effects are lasting.

Edit - My advice for him is either do like everyone else and lie or get out now because it will only get worse once you become a single adult. It gets a lot worse once you get into the singles wards. You become a leper to the women and dating is impossible. Even making friends becomes difficult because everyone in the ward knows you are the "sinner" who doesn't take the sacrament most weeks.

Edit2 - Yes this type of abuse results in all kinds of sexual hangups and even social anxiety. I ended up with both. As a teen and young adult I would avoid parties and other social gatherings at Church because I was labeled the "sinner" and I would avoid them with nonmember friends because it made dealing with the "problem" harder. I'm in the process of fixing my problems, but it's been very hard to make those changes.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2011 03:04PM by jackol.

Can't you give him some realistic information about masturbation? Surely, a doctor's office has some? Do the boy scouts put out any information?

This is just sick in this day and age. The poor kid needs to know that the medical and psychiatric profession believe it is healthy and normal. It might be the first crack that leads hime down the path as an exmo.

Your SIL is a fucking nutcase. Does she even know how to have an orgasm? Might be one of the reasons that her ex was having affairs, it might have been like screwing a corpse.

cold as ice! what a crock of crap!! the bish should be turned in to the cops....... yeah Sarge the "bishop" wants me to report via texting everyday whether or not i jerk off!! sexting with a minor is a criminal offense!! that otta do the trick!! :)

SEXTING WITH A MINOR IS A CRIME!!!

The scout manuals back in my day had at least one vaguely anti-masturbation passage. I already hate them enough because of their anti-atheist and homophobic policies to want to go look up the current language, but I'll bet they support the morg position.

It is sick and wrong how young people are expected to confess their sexual activities to their bishops. It should be illegal for grown men to discuss sexual activities with a minor. Especially in a closed door setting! If I was still in the church, I'd be in every interview with my children who are minors.

"When her bishop saw this, he relented and let my nephew get the priesthood but insisted that my nephew text him daily and let him know if he was able to refrain from masturbating that day."

YOU HAVE GOT TO ME KIDDING ME!? This is sick and probably illegal.

The adults are brainwashed by the Morg and the boy has to be suffering. I honestly cannot wrap my brain around a family and bishop sticking their noses in a young boy's PRIVATE business.

YOU HAVE TO GET THEM OUT OF TSCC NOW!!!

the bishop is not the one who should be counseling this kid. Professional help should be sought. Not only that, I think public humiliation is horribly wrong way to go about it.

seems to have the technique down pat.

it's the grown ups around him who are acting like total douches.

that's the problem. Oh and the grown stranger man who wants a daily text of the activities should be reported to the police.

CAGal, is your SIL aware that moboys have killed themselves over this?

I think it's serious enough to report to Children's Services. And the police.

Same thing happened to me when I was 15 and worked up the cajones to set up an appointment with the bishop specifically to confess that I'd been a habitual dolphin-shaker since I was 12.

I don't know if there are *no* teenage boys who don't masturbate, but if there are any, they're certainly a small minority, in or out of religion. The real message the church sends, whether or not it realizes it, is, "Do what you want--just keep your mouth shut and keep up appearances, all right?" Most boys seem to get that message pretty early on, and lie.

I wonder how many bishops are actually naive and stupid enough not to at least suspect that most of the boys in their flock who claim not to masturbate are just liars. Probably quite a few, actually--Mormonism is a recipe for blind, credulous stupidity.

Wish I could just sit down and hang out with the kid, let him feel unconditionally accepted.

Before this gets closed--all I can think is BOUNDARIES people--BOUNDARIES.

Can you imagine talking to your mother about masturbation? Oh my hell! There are just so many things wrong with this.

My Bishop as a teenager made me talk to him and both my parents about it in his office. So yes I have had to talk to my mother about masturbation on multiple occasions growing up.

I just replied to helamon's thread

Sometimes it is so easy to think that women are the only abused victims in mormonism--this takes the cake.

I was asked by the bishop if I masturbated from age 12 on up and I didn't even know what it was. I had an "idea"--but this is just SO SICK on SO MANY LEVELS. I am just basically speechless thinking about how messed up this makes people.

They take sex and basically destroy it. I assume that is their purpose.

It destroys more than just sex. When the leaders make it a public thing it destroys your self confidence. I'm living proof of how messed up things can get if you are truly honest with Church leaders. Luckily I stopped confessing in my late 20s and by the time I was 30 I stopped going all together. It has been a long road but I'm becoming a lot more normal now. I still have problems dating though, but most of that is just lack of experience.

During the height of the problem I was one of those guys that just sat home and played video games and didn't do anything with other people. I was in my early and mid 20s and I did almost no socializing because of all the fear, guilt, shame, and destroyed confidence. It was paralyzing in many social situations to get beyond the boring "how's the weather" types of conversations. Dating was just not something that was going to happen with my state of mind at the time either.

Most young Mormon men learn to lie early, and to lie easily.

The consequences for being honest are just too unbearable. Those with a strong a conscience are punished beyond belief. Conformity rules above all else. Reality is the great enemy to Mormonism and young people learn this fact quickly -- often they learn it painfully.

All of which prepares them for the dishonest demands of teaching in the mission field, and eventually for marriage, and for parenthood, and for church leadership - leadership where they can pass this sickness on to the next generation.

This is how Mormonism preserves its power.

Then it should be reported. The family members are cowed by the morg (like the grandfather) and waves are hard to make in a family, I agree. However, I am old and out of patience with abuse.

If the bishop were actually touching the boy's genitalia on ANY basis, Child Protective Services would have been called way back when. The perpetrator would clearly be the bishop. In this case the responsibility is more diffused because of the cult indoctrination of all or most of the adults involved that 1) masturbation must not occur, and 2) church authority must be followed. This abuse is occurring at one step removed from actual touching.

What if this were a daughter who had to phone in each day to the insurance man down the street to report her sexual thoughts or her masturbation? This is just sick and demeaning control, which is the essence of abuse.

CA Girl, you are in a difficult position, but I would bet serious money that your nephew has had more than a few thoughts of suicide. I would also disagree with your DH that "the boys should try to refrain." What one does with one's body is most often only that person's business. If they're still attending school and handing in most of their homework, they probably aren't too busy with the M word.

I hope somebody reports this as abuse or at least talks to this kid about the fraud of the so-called "church," so he can let himself off this hook he's hanging by.

Amen to that!

+100

OK... First off talk to an expert ask to talk to the police on a sensative subject and a case of possable abuse but you only have certain deatails. And wile this is going on I'd ask as many adul that went though this sort of thing as children and went though the single wards that feel conftable doing so contact Dr Phill and get this out into the public of how much damage it does.

It would almost be better for that mom to stand up infront of the congragation and shout about what her sons doing than the churches on the quiet shameing. Also the churches polacy of makeingd a huge thing about sex and masterbation is probably haveing the oposit effect to what they want. It's like shoveing a picture of a naked ladfy into a guys face and saying 'Dont look at porn!' So much talking and descussing it isnt going to stop anyone thinking about it. Plus who pays for those text messages? mroe money and time wasted on the church. That bishop also is ether an abuser or an abuser in the makeing seeing as its a tabboo subject thats pushed in peoples faces.

Before this thread closes, I wanted to thank everyone for their input. I'm going to re-read every post a couple of times, then make a plan to approach my DH with what you all have said. I think he's in the best position to help.

I also have a friend who is a counselor - this isn't her area of expertise but she might have some ideas and she probably knows someone who can help. Thanks again - I'll keep you posted on what happens.

is that he thought he had to tell the bishop whenever he touched himself (probably SIL's fault for making him think that). The other boys do it and pretend that they don't. For that matter, the bishop probably does it and pretends that he doesn't and the BIL probably does it and pretends that he doesn't. But boy are they going to make a big morality drama out of the hapless boy who thought he had to confess.

Forget the police. This isn't a matter of abuse in the legal sense. It's f*cked up and will mess with this child as it has with so many others, but there is no sense trying to prosecute misguided leaders.

In this instance I say take it to the press and let the church's image suffer for the silent approval of the local church leadership. The trick is to expose the issue without further humiliating the child.

These bishops and their counselors belong in jail for that.

Kids are dying because of this bullying bull shit.