John Dehlin, in his "Mormon Stories Podcast," provides a more credible account entitled, "Thomas B. Marsh’s Story: A More Accurate Version of Why He Left the Church":
http://mormonstories.org/?p=258_____
For inconvenient facts not mentioned by Mormon Church leaders, see John Hamer's "The Milk & Strippings Story, Thomas B. Marsh, and Brigham Young":
http://bycommonconsent.com/2009/07/01/the-milk-strippings-story-thomas-b-marsh-and-brigham-young/_____
RfM poster "Randy J." offers a much more historically reliable and detailed account per actual events than Monson, Hinckley and their Quorum of the Twelve Elves in "Tom Marsh and the Milk Strippings":
"On the Marsh incident, Gordon B. Hinckley offered the following comments in the April 1984 General Conference: 'According to the account given by George A. Smith, while the Saints were in Far West, Missouri, 'the wife of Thomas B. Marsh, who was then President of the Twelve Apostles, and Sister Harris concluded they would exchange milk, in order to make a little larger cheese than they otherwise could. To be sure to have justice done, it was agreed that they should not save the strippings (to themselves), but that the milk and strippings should go all together.. . . Mrs. Harris, it appeared, was faithful to the agreement and carried to Mrs. Marsh the milk and strippings, but Mrs. Marsh, wishing to make some extra good cheese, saved a pint of strippings from each cow and sent Mrs. Harris the milk without the strippings. A quarrel arose, and the matter was referred to the home teachers. They found Mrs. Marsh guilty of failure to keep her agreement. She and her husband were upset and, 'an appeal was taken from the teacher to the bishop, and a regular church trial was held. President Marsh did not consider that the bishop had done him and his lady justice for they (that is, the bishop's court) decided that the strippings were wrongfully saved, and that the woman had violated her covenant.
"'Marsh immediately took an appeal to the High Council, who investigated the question with much patience, and,' says George A. Smith, . . . 'Marsh . . . made a desperate defence, but the High Council finally confirmed the bishop's decision. . . .
"'This little affair,' Brother Smith continues, 'kicked up a considerable breeze, and Thomas B. Marsh then declared that he would sustain the character of his wife even if he had to go to hell for it. The then-President of the Twelve Apostles, the man who should have been the first to do justice and cause reparation to be made for wrong . . . went before a magistrate and swore that the 'Mormons' were hostile towards the state of MIssouri. That affidavit brought from the government of Missouri an exterminating order, which drove some 15,000 Saints from their homes and habitations. . . . What a very small and trivial thing--a little cream over which two women quarreled. But it led to, or at least was a factor in, Governor Boggs' cruel exterminating order which drove the Saints from the state of Missouri.' ('Ensign' Magazine, May 1984, p. 83)
"Note how Hinckley asserts that the 'milk strippings' incident (if it even occurred at all) was a major factor in Marsh's defection, and the resulting Extermination Order. But were Hinckley's remarks (via George A. Smith) anywhere close to the truth? Let's compare Hinckley's assertions to the documented facts of history:
"A 'revelation' Smith produced, and published in his 1833 "Book of Commandments," read as follows: 'For it shall come to pass, that which I spake by the mouths of my prophets shall be fulfilled; for I will consecrate the riches of the Gentiles, unto my people which are of the house of Israel.' ("BOC" 44:32.)
"In Smith's 1835 revision of the BOC, re-titled the 'Doctrine and Covenants,' Smith altered this verse to read: '[F]or I will consecrate of the riches of those who embrace my gospel among the Gentiles unto the poor of my people who are of the house of Israel.' ('D&C' 42:39.)
"David Whitmer explained why the original version of this "revelation" had enraged Missourians against the Mormon immigrants in 1833: 'In the spring of 1832, in Hiram, Ohio, Brothers Joseph and Sidney, and others, concluded that the revelations should be printed in a book. A few of the brethren -- including myself --objected to it seriously. We told them that if the revelations were published, the world would get the books, and it would not do; that it was not the will of the Lord that the revelations should be published. But Brothers Joseph and Sidney would not listen to us, and said they were going to send them to Independence to be published. I objected to it and withstood Brothers Joseph and Sidney to the face. Brother Joseph said as follows: "Any man who objects to having these revelations published, shall have his part taken out of the Tree of Life and out of the Holy City." The Spirit of God came upon me and I prophesied to them in the name of the Lord: "That if they sent those revelations to Independence to be published in a book, the people would come upon them and tear down the printing press, and the church would be driven out of Jackson county." Brothers Joseph and Sidney laughed at me. Early in the spring of 1833, at Independence, Mo., the revelations were printed in the Book of Commandments. Many of the books were finished and distributed among the members of the church, and through some of the unwise brethren, the world got hold of some of them. From that time the ill-feeling toward us began to increase; and in the summer of 1833 the mob came upon us, tore down the printing press, and drove the church out of Jackson county.'" ('An Address to all Believers in Christ')
"It's obvious that Smith altered the verse which called for the 'consecration of the riches of the Gentiles unto the house of Israel' because the publication of such a policy had gotten the Mormons booted out of Jackson County. Nonetheless, he and Rigdon secretly continued their advocacy of "consecrating" the personal property of non-Mormons, as well as those of Mormon dissenters, into his "kingdom," and that was the ultimate cause of the Mormons' final expulsion from Missouri in 1838.
"To today's Mormons, 'consecration' means giving of their money or goods to the church. In 1838, upon the failure of their Kirtland Bank and 'United Order,' Smith and Rigdon went to Missouri and again tried to institute an economic commune. The Missouri Mormons, who had been expelled from Jackson County in 1834, were living in relative (albeit temporary) peace in Clay County, buying land and starting farms. But the arrival of Smith and Rigdon in the spring of 1838 brought an influx of thousands more Mormons from Kirtland as well, spilling them over into 'Gentile' areas, causing new tensions. Mormon population increased from 1,200 to 15,000 in just a few months. Having been stung by the Kirtland failure, Smith and Rigdon implemented new policies that they hoped would make the new commune succeed.
"The policy mandated that all Mormons sign their lands over to the church, and then the church would lease the land back to them as 'stewardships.' The Mormons who had bought and developed their lands and farms balked at the idea---among them being Cowdery, the Whitmers, Phelps, Lyman Johnson, etc. They correctly perceived that the new "consecration" policy was nothing more than Smith and Rigdon's latest scheme to fleece the flock. Their refusal to sign lands over to the church prompted Rigdon's 'Salt Sermon' (which was heartily endorsed by Smith), and Rigdon's resulting letter informing the dissenters that they must 'depart before a more fatal calamity' befell them. While the dissenters had gone to procure legal aid to prevent Smith and Rigdon from taking their land (or their lives), the "Danites" invaded and plundered their homes and property. So, for those Mormons, 'consecration' meant having their goods taken away by force, upon the order of church leaders.
"'A proposition was made and supported by some as being the best policy to kill these men that they would not be capable of injuring the church. All their measures were strenuously opposed by John Corrill and T. B. Marsh one of the twelve apostles of the church and in consequence nothing could be effected until the matter was taken up publicly BY THE PRESIDENCY the following (June 17th) in a large congregation . . . ' ('Reed Peck Manuscript')
"Thus, according to Peck, Marsh was already opposing Smith's and Rigdon's heinous policies as early as June 17--four months before Marsh swore his affidavit. That fact alone destroys the 'milk strippings' business.
"As many witnesses (including Thomas B. Marsh) testified in court, Smith's intention was to 'take this State, . . . the United States and ultimately the whole world' for his theocratic empire. The swelling Mormon population disturbed the non-Mormons, who had heard that the 'Gentiles' were to be evicted and the land become the Mormons' 'New Jerusalem.' One Missourian, William Peniston, remarked in August that the Mormons 'are a set of horse thieves, liars, and counterfeiters. They'll swear a false oath on any occasion to save another Mormon. . . . [N]o property is safe in Daviess County if they continue to pour into this area.'
"Tensions soon erupted into violence, with beatings, lootings and burnings being committed on both sides. By October, believing that they had enough manpower to 'take the state,' Smith and Rigdon then sent their "Danite" forces to begin 'consecrating' from the 'Gentiles' as well as the dissident 'Saints,' with the loot going to support their war effort.
"Church historian John Whitmer reported that the Mormon leaders claimed the stealing was justified because they were the 'chosen people': 'After they had driven us and our families, they commenced a difficulty in Daviess County, adjoining this county, in which they began to rob and burn houses, etc. etc., took honey which they, (the Mormons) call sweet oil, and hogs which they call bear, and cattle which they called buffalo. Thus they would justify themselves by saying, "We are the people of God, and all things are God's; therefore, they are ours.' (John Whitmer's 'History of the Church')
"John Whitmer's remarks revealed Smith's and Rigdon's true attitude: they viewed their organization as the literal 'House of Israel,' and 'the Kingdom of God on Earth;' they taught the imminent return and millenial reign of Christ, wherein all the 'enemies' of the 'true church' would be defeated. Since, in the 'millenium,' all things on earth would be theirs, they haughtily taught their subordinates to appropriate the property of the 'Gentiles.'
"Mormon historian Leland Gentry admits to Mormon thefts: 'The Danites were taught to take from the Gentiles and consecrate to the Church. Nearly every person who testified at the trial against the Mormon leaders made mention of this fact. John Clemenson stated that "it was frequently observed among the troops at Diahman that the time had come when the riches of the Gentiles should be consecrated to the Saints." Jeremiah Myers testified that "the consecrated property . . . was dealt out to those in need' by Bishop Vinson Knight."' ('A History of the Latter-Day Saints in Northern Missouri,' pp. 385-87)
"'Danites struck at Gallatin and two other towns, Millport and Grinding Fork. The three onslaughts occurred simultaneously and had a crushing impact on the Missourians who were unaccustomed to Mormon resistance. When Captains Lyman Wight, David W. Patten, and Seymour Brunson rode into Far West at the head of their companies, the sight of wagonloads of plunder was offensive to a number of less aggressively inclined Saints. That night they gathered their families together and abandoned the settlement. Among the defectors were two of Joseph's most trusted followers, Thomas B. Marsh and Orson Hyde, both members of the Council of Twelve Apostles. The two men fled to nearby Richmond and blurted out everything they knew." ('Orrin Porter Rockwell,' Harold Schindler, p. 54.)
"'The Mormons were two hundred and fifty men by the time they reached Daviess County . . . . The bulk of the forces went out in search of the gentile opposition. They marched through three settlements, including Gallatin, repaying the Missourians in kind, looting and firing stores, homes, and barns, before their anger spent itself. . . . When they returned with their loot, many of their own people were appalled and frightened. Thomas B. Marsh, Brigham Young's superior as President of the Twelve, let it be known that he did not approve such retaliation, and he left the church." ('Kingdom of the Saints,' Ray B. West, p. 86)
"'There was much mysterious conversation in camps, as to plundering, and house-burning; so much so, that I had my own notions about it; and, on one occasion, I spoke to Mr. Smith, Jr., in the house, and told him that this course of burning houses and plundering, by the Mormon troops, would ruin us; that it could not be kept hid, and would bring the force of the state upon us; that houses would be searched, and stolen property found. Smith replied to me, in a pretty rough manner, to keep still; that I should say nothing about it; that it would discourage the men . . . . I saw a great deal of plunder and bee-steads brought into camp; and I saw many persons, for many days, taking the honey out of them; I understood this property and plunder were placed into the hands of the bishop at Diahmon. . . . The general teachings of the presidency were, that the kingdom they were setting up was a temporal kingdom . . . that the time had come when this kingdom was to be set up by forcible means, if necessary. It was taught, that the time had come when the riches of the Gentiles were to be consecrated to the true Israel.' (testimony of George M. Hinkle, 'Senate Document 189')
"'Smith replied, the time had come when he should resist all law . . . . I heard J. Smith remark, there was a store at Gallatin, and a grocery at Millport; and in the morning after the conversation between Smith and Wight about resisting the law, a plan of operations was agreed on, which was: that Captain Fearnaught, who was present, should take a company of 100 men, or more, and go to Gallatin, and take it that day; to take the goods out of Gallatin, bring them to Diahmon, and burn the store. . . . On the same day, in the evening, I saw both these companies return; the foot company had some plunder. . . " (testimony of W.W. Phelps, 'Senate Document 189')
"From Marsh's own sworn legal affidavit of October 24, 1838: 'At the request of citizens of Ray County, I make the following statement. . . . Joseph Smith, the prophet, had preached a sermon in which he said that all the Mormons who refused to take up arms, if necessary, in the difficulties with the citizens, should be shot or otherwise put to death; and as I was there with my family, I thought it most prudent to go and did go with my wagon as the driver. We marched to Adam-ondi-Ahman and found no troops or mob in Davies County. . . . [A] company of about eighty Mormons, commanded by a man fictitiously named Captain Fearnaught [apostle and Danite David Patten], marched to Gallatin. . . . I afterwards learned from the Mormons that they had burnt Gallatin and that it was done by the aforesaid company that marched there. The Mormons informed me that they had hauled away all the goods from the store in Gallatin and deposited them at the Bishop's storehouse at Diahmon. On the same day, [apostle and Danite] Lyman Wight marched about eighty horsemen for Millport. . . . The same evening a number of footmen came up from the direction of Millport laden with property which I was informed consisted of beds, clocks, and other household furniture...During the same time, a company called the Fur Company were sent out to bring in fat hogs and cattle, calling the hogs 'bears', and the cattle "buffaloes." They have among them a company consisting of all that are considered true Mormons, called the Danites, who have taken an oath to support the heads of the church in all things that they say or do, whether right or wrong. . . . The plan of said Smith, the prophet, is to take this State, and he professed to his people to intend taking the United States, and ultimately the whole world. This is the belief of the church, and my own opinion of the prophet's plans and intentions. . . . The prophet inculcates the notion, and it is believed by every true Mormon, that Smith's prophecies are superior to the law of the land. I have heard the prophet say that he should yet tread down his enemies and walk over their dead bodies; that if he was not let alone he would be a second Mahomet to this generation, and that he would make it one gore of blood from the Rocky Mountains to the Atlantic Ocean. . . .'
"I don't find anything about 'milk strippings' in Marsh's, or any other eyewitnesses' testimony of those events; and I have failed to find even one mention of the alleged 'milk strippings' incident in any history on the subject by any reputable scholar. To the contrary, they all concur that the reason the Mormons were booted out of Missouri was because of Smith and Rigdon's haughty, belligerent attitudes and'teachings; their calls for violence, their 'revelations' that 'justified' their followers stealing from their neighbors; and their boasts that their organization had a "divine right' to take the state of Missouri for themselves, by any means necessary, including force.
"Late LDS author Harold Schindler recounted the series of events that caused Governor Boggs to issue his 'Extermination Order,' which came the day after the skirmish between Missouri militiamen and Mormon "Danites" at Crooked River: 'Twenty-four hours after the Crooked River fight, Boggs, armed with the affidavits of Marsh and Hyde plus complaints from frightened settlers describing a wholesale Mormon rebellion, ordered two thousand militiamen from five divisions into the field. . . . Then Boggs received a message confirming an earlier report of Bogart's defeat but compounding the rumors of a massacre . . . this report prompted Boggs to issue his infamous "Extermination Order" of October 27 to General John B. Clark. In effect, the order challenged Sidney Rigdon's Fourth of July address in which he defied the Gentiles and threatened a "war of extermination." It was more than coincidence that Boggs chose that particular word in his instruction to General Clark." ('Orrin Porter Rockwell: Man of God, Son of Thunder,' Harold Schindler, pp. 56-58)
"Thus we see that the major incident which spurred Boggs to issue his 'Extermination Order' was the Crooked River skirmish, wherein several men on both sides were killed. That event made Boggs realize that the Mormons would not peacefully cohabit the state with non-Mormons, and since many Mormons had taken a secret oath to obey Smith's every order, even those which called on them to commit crimes, Boggs was forced to evict all of the Mormons from the state.
"So, in view of the documented facts, can anyone honestly believe that Thomas B. Marsh's 'real gripe' was a fight between two women over 'milk strippings'? And, was Gordon B. Hinckley being 'honest with his fellow man' by using George A. Smith's 'faith-promoting' version of events, rather than objectively relating the numerous testimonies of first-hand eyewitnesses and participants?
"Of course he wasn't. Hinckley, as well as most other LDS leaders and apologists, are not interested in relating the actual history of Mormonism; their agenda is to spin 'faith-promoting' tales that attempt to 'teach a lesson,' while simultaneously obfuscating the actual facts. The average rank-and-file Mormon, upon learning that the first president of the Q12 had 'apostasized,' would naturally inquire as to the reasons for his 'apostasy;' and the 'milk strippings' story is propagated to conceal the actual reasons, and to provide an "object lesson" for Mormons sitting in Sunday School class.
"So, when you say that 'logic tells me that people have left the church for more legitimate concerns' than misspelled names and 'milk strippings,' you're right; Simonds Ryder's and Thomas B. Marsh's true 'concerns' were a thousand times greater."
_____
RfM poster "JoD3:360" also provides the following more reliable version of events, in "The Truth About Milk Strippings and Thomas Marsh":
"In April of 1838, Church President Joseph Smith and his first counselor Sidney Rigdon moved to Far West, which became the new church headquarters. Although disfellowshipped, David and John Whitmer, Oliver Cowdery, W.W. Phelps and other former leaders (who were known as the 'dissenters') continued to live in the County. By early June, some of the more zealous Mormons, led by Sampson Avard, formed a society which came to be known as the 'Danites.' According to Marsh, these men swore oaths to “support the heads of the church in all things that they say or do, whether right or wrong.” ('Document,' p. 57)
"According to Reed Peck, two of these Danites, Jared Carter and Dimick B. Huntington, proposed at a meeting that the society should kill the dissenters. Marsh and fellow moderate, John Corrill, spoke vigorously against the motion (Peck, pp. 22-23). On the following Sunday, however, Sidney Rigdon issued his 'Salt Sermon' in which he likened the dissenters to salt that had lost its savor and was 'good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.' (Van Wagoner, p. 218). Within a week the dissenters had fled the county.
"Although he may have been concerned about these events, Marsh remained in the church until late October. According to his sworn testimony, Marsh claimed that a Mormon invasion of Daviess County and the subsequent looting and burning of non-Mormon settlements, including Gallatin, the county seat, were the acts that caused him to leave.
"Marsh stated: 'A company of about eighty of the Mormons, commanded by a man fictitiously named Captain Fearnot [David W. Patten], marched to Gallatin. They returned and said they had run off from Gallatin twenty or thirty men and had taken Gallatin, had taken one prisoner and another had joined the company. I afterwards learned from the Mormons that they had burned Gallatin, and that it was done by the aforesaid company that marched there. The Mormons informed me that they had hauled away all the goods from the store in Gallatin, and deposited them at the Bishop’s storehouses at Adam-on-diahmon' ('Document,' p. 57).
On October 19, 1838, the day after Gallatin was burned, Thomas B. Marsh and fellow apostle Orson Hyde left the association of the Church. Marsh drafted and signed a legal affidavit against Joseph Smith on October 24, 1838, which Hyde also signed. In addition to reporting on the organization of the Danites and on the events in Daviess County, Marsh reported rumors that the Danites had set up a “destroying company” and that 'if the people of Clay & Ray made any movement against them, this destroying company was to burn Liberty & Richmond.” He further stated his belief that Joseph Smith planned “to take the State, & he professes to his people to intend taking the U.S. & ultimately the whole world.' ('Document,' p. 57). Marsh’s testimony added to the panic in northwestern Missouri and contributed to subsequent events in the Mormon War.
"Because a Mormon attack was believed imminent, a unit of the state militia from Ray County was dispatched to patrol the border between Ray and Mormon Caldwell County to the north. On October 25, 1838, reports reached Mormons in Far West that this state militia unit was a 'mob' and had kidnapped several Mormons. The Mormons formed an armed rescue party and attacked the militia in what became known as the Battle of Crooked River. Although only one Missourian was killed, initial reports held that half the unit had been wiped out. This attack on the state militia, coupled with the earlier expulsion of non-Mormons from Daviess County led Missouri’s governor Lilburn W. Boggs to respond with force. On 27 October he called out 2,500 state militia to put down what he perceived as a Mormon rebellion and signed what became known as the 'Extermination Order.' (Baugh, pp. 108–09)
"Marsh was excommunicated from the Church in absentia on March 17, 1839 in Quincy, Illinois. After Marsh moved to Utah and rejoined the Latter-day Saints, he looked back at his decision to leave the Church with regret. Concerning his actions in Missouri, he wrote: 'About this time I got a beam in my eye and thought I could discover a mote in Joseph’s eye, though it was nothing but a beam in my eye; I was so completely darkened that I did not think on the Savior’s injunction: ‘Thou hypocrite, why beholdest thou the mote which is in thy brother’s eye, when a beam is in thine own eye; first cast out the beam out of thine own eye, then thou shalt see clearly to get the mote out of thy brother’s eye.’
"Years later, in 1864, George A. Smith claimed in a sermon that Marsh had left the church because of a dispute between his wife and other Mormon women over a milk cow.[2] Although this tale has made its way into Mormon folklore, Smith’s statements are not supported by any contemporary evidence.[3]"
Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2011 11:02PM by steve benson.