...an involved, intense, and emotional subject.
My students were appropriately serious and respectful of the opinions of others. They were engaged in the subject, and asked thoughtful questions.
Except for the three LDS kids in the class. One guy, two girls. Sat there whispering to each other, and breaking into fits of giggles. Yes, giggles. While I was lecturing about abortion.
Following the lecture, the young man, on his way out, in a very somber tone, observed "that was disgusting." (after his fits of giggles...)

That will be embarrassing to them, should they ever grow up enough to think clearly about it.

This is not political -- but one of the best libertarian arguments against abortion is found in an older book by Ron Paul. Think what you will of him, but he made his arguments without once mentioning God and by being totally respectful of those libertarians who are in favor of abortion. Rational to the max.

Do you know what the name of the book is? Just out of curiousity. I do like Ron Paul quite a lot...

That's a very biased way of putting things.
Some of us simply do not want the government in our doctors' offices, or making very personal decisions for us.
Some of us actually believe that our own bodies belong to us and that nobody else has any "rights" over OUR bodies.
It's the principle of the thing.
I am continually amazed by the "libertarian" males who would never dream of giving up total control over their homes/castles or their gun cabinets, much less their bodies, but somehow think it's a totally different issue when it's a woman's body.

A person acquires rights when they are able to exist outside another person's body. That is the point where they become "separate" beings.

You're not needed. The thinking has been done for them. Ironic that for all the supposed righteousness of TBMs that Ethics would be very interesting and engaging for them. But nope.

In your next lecture you should mention that the behavior of whispering and giggling is really rude to yourself and to other students.

I was in a large lecture class and several classmates would talk the whole time. I have a hard time paying attention as it is. After class one day I asked the professor to say something in general to the class. Although she was reluctant, she did so. It didn't work. There were still many side conversations. I raised my hand to excuse myself, stood up and addressed the whole class. I cussed some for drama and told people to please leave if they wanted to talk.

Its not fair to the other students who are paying good money for an education to have these asses interrupt lectures.

Reminds me of when my college professor (years ago) chewed out 2 students in our small group discussion for talking and giggling. This guy took a 3 hour flight once a week to hold a special class with us. He was a pro. You could have heard a pin drop.

When I get to the unit I give a very large preface about things that are and are not approriate regarding reactions to attitudes, reliance on feelings instead of argument, and a repectful attitude. Most of the kids in my class are preparing to ne nurses, so are young ladies, so a bunch, no doubt, have had abortions, so I really drive home the point of respectfulness.

I paused to shush these 3 twice during the lecture. If it continues into part 2 of the unit, they are getting the boot.

I think the prob lem, as pointed out by Raptor jesus, is they have been told that their feelings=knowlegde, therefore anything I tell them based on rationality, biology, psychology, etc, they can ignore as they already "know" the absolute truth.

Of the 3 kids, I don't think any of them are smart to figure out that in Mormonism, "truth" is simply the flavor of the month.

Please do give them the boot if they continue to act this way. When dealing with such a sensitive subject, there's undoubtedly at least a couple young women in your class who may be hesitant to express their views for fear of the social stigma, or one who is sorting out her feelings about the issue.

I would specifically point out the "disgusting" comment one of them made on the way out of class, following their poor behavior.

Raptorjesus is right; as far as they are concerned the thinking has already been done for them, so why should they even bother to listen? As a kid/teenager, growing up in the church was difficult for me because of this exact issue. I've always been quite socially liberal,something that most indefinitely does not jive with church teachings. It was difficult keeping my personal beliefs on abortion, gay marriage, and other social issues while being taught consistently that I was dead wrong.

I am VERY grateful that you will be talking to the class about how yo behave in the classroom. Abortions are quite common. Their disrespectful behavior is not only disrespectful to you, but to those who may have experienced having had one.

If they continue their behavior, I hope you throw them out

if you haven't read it there is an excellent section on abortion and it's role in reducing crime stats in the 1990's in the USA... in 'Freakonomics' by Steven Levitt & Stephen Dubner

I'm being completely serious here. I marvel that there is so much discussion on the issue where the participants have never actually witnessed the result of an abortion.

Had you shown one I can almost guarantee there would have been NO giggling; in fact there would have been dead silence in the room.

outofutah

We've got pills now.
You going to make a movie about that???

It's still a procedure is it not? Many of them still are procedures. In any case show the result on a screen for all to see. Then I can guarantee you will have done something worthwhile; you will have complete silence in the room and you will have truly educated people to come to face with the reality.

out

And what, pray tell, do you think this reality is? What do you think happens in that room? It is not the fake, gruesome poster that some protesters use to try to sell their lies, I promise you.

I've been through an abortion - well aware what the result was and is. It was absolutely the right decision for me to make at that point in my life.

For what it's worth - yes, I was watching. I was completely conscious through the procedure. Afterwards, I cried - out of relief.

So strange you should put it that way. I can tell you this; I sat in a room with 500-600 other people and watched a video, with no sound showing a number of abortions. There was not a dry eye in the room. You may have been awake but did you see the results?

It was a video of procedures. I don't know what you are implying by asking what do I "think" it is and metioning "posters." That is irrelevant. I am speaking of watching abortions.

It is horrible.

Well, why would you do that? Would you watch any other surgical procedure? Ceasarian sections look pretty horrible to me. WOuld you film and watch a miscarriage? Did you know that they used to call miscarriages "Spontaneous abortions?"

Of COURSE it's horrible; it's bloody. And painful.

I don't watch breast implant surgeries on the medical channel because it's horrible to watch.

Why not show all that at the same time?

What about all the cancerous, deformed, and dead organs and tissue that tend to go belly up in us
“perfect” humans all the damn time and is disgusting and horrible (to the uninitiated and untrained) to watch as it gets removed or repaired.

But you didn’t show that. You showed specific things for effect.

How ugly is the surgery for repairing a cleft palette? How ugly is amputating an appendage ravaged by gangrene? How ugly is removing a tumor from the brain? This list is very, very long!

No, what happened here is that you cherry picked for dramatic effect and that my friend is deliberate deception via emotional manipulation. (I am making an assumption here as I don't know why your 500-600 people were watching this "procedure" in the first place)

We are bloody bags of protoplasm and most don't get to see that very often. Just because it is ickey to watch does not change the ethics or morals of a persons decision in the matter one whit.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2010 12:39PM by AmIDarkNow?.

for a miscarriage.
We can show videos of women giving birth, and those are pretty gruesome, too!
The thing is, the vast majority of abortions are done very early and even through the use of drugs rather than surgery. They are not what is depicted by these Friends of the Fetus groups.

well outofutah... if you dont like abortions...(i dont either as i am adopted).... dont have one! :P

you have not seen a video of it, and NO, it does not have at ALL the "same result" as a surgical abortion.
The embryo/zygote is simply expelled from the body, the same way a very early miscarriage would happen.

Yes I did. You were watching a video, which means you have not experienced it. You watched something third hand, which could be edited and doctored for a specific response. In a room. With 500 people.

I was in the room - I had the vacuum hose up my vagina. I was wide awake - only a local anesthetic was used. What came out of me was a mix of a blood clot and tissue between the size of a quarter and half-dollar. I've had similar clots during a normal menstrual period.

It felt literally just as it does when you put the nozzle attachment of a vacuum cleaner to your arm. A little pinch from the suction and a slight amount of pain - but my cramps during my period are far worse every month.

Onceanelder beat me to the punch, in one of my grad finance class, this book was an assignment. One of the chapters deals with abortion and it's finding are surprising.

Tells those kids to STFU! Like one of the above posters mentioned, I think it's horribly rude for other students to be talking and giggling when big money is paid to attend school. So disrespectful!

Hmmm... I'd do one of two things. Prior to the beginning of the next class, where this discussion will be continued, either pull the three aside or just say publicly to the entire class that giggling and side conversations will not be tolerated as that is disrespectful to the instructor as well as to the other students in the class. Anyone who does not conduct themselves with respect and maturity will be asked to leave the class for the day. I would give that threat some teeth by suggesting one's grade could be affected for acting like a jerk. You could ping the "class participation" part of their grade.

They're probably having a hard time listening to people who don't just get told what to think.

It must make them completely tense to realize that other people use their brains to make major decisions.

He sent an email to the entire class because of 5 girls. He said that in his 27 years of teaching college he had never had to do this, but if the disruptions continued, he would be sending the offenders out of class, and if there was a second infraction he would drop the individual from the course. He cleared it with their department head - which was more of a courtesy than a requirement - and that guy talked to the girls, too.

You have some rights and you don't have to put up with juvenille behavior in a college setting. Good luck and hang in there!

I would say that what is disgusting is the lack of respect toward fellow classmates. Maybe a well cited paper explaining his disgust and justifying how his comment was helpfull would be in order. Prehapes the giggeling students would be able to explain how laughter helps a lecture on Abortion to unfold smoothly and how it helps others to evaluate the social and moral ethics being discussed.