This month's ensign:
http://lds.org/new-era/2011/08/the-only-true-and-living-church?lang=eng

Has this to say:
"The fashionable opinion of this age is that all churches are true. In truth, the idea that all churches are the same is the doctrine of the anti-Christ."
and
"we refer to this, His Church—our Church—as the 'only true Church.' Sometimes we do this in a way that gives great offense to people who belong to other churches or who subscribe to other philosophies."
(Oaks)


By creating a view that it's all mormonism, or it's nothing, does LDSinc create a position that makes it harder to leave?

Once you leave, your earth is scorched and you more than likely become agnostic/atheist. But it makes apostates very antagonistic and angry too. Had they not been so black-n-white and split everything into true or not true, I bet more would stay and there'd be less anger.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2011 09:01AM by Jesus Smith.

+1

LDSinc does not have a monopoly on this mind-set by a long shot. Pretty much all schisms of Christianity believe that all other sects are going to burn for all eternity. Fear is so much more powerful than hope/faith when it comes to inspiring members to bully their children and open their wallets.

You are absolutely correct on this. I once had a born again ex-coworker tell me that even though he is born again he doesn't push his religion on anyone. I told him I thought that was a good idea. He replied, "Yeah, it doesn't matter to me you're going to Hell."

Some do but not all. Some Christians don't even believe in a literal hell and some see baptism as only symbolic. Depends on the denominations.

beulahland Wrote:
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> LDSinc does not have a monopoly on this mind-set by a long shot. Pretty much all schisms of Christianity believe that all other sects are going to burn for all eternity.

I disagree. Among the mainstream Christian churches, each denomination may believe that they have it "right," but they don't believe that other Christians are going to hell for believing somewhat differently.

If (say) an offspring raised in a Methodist home decided to start attending the Lutheran church or to marry a Presbyterian, I believe this would be a non-issue in most families.

It is not unusual for a church in one denomination to hold exchange services with a church in another denomination in the name of ecumenism. I remember doing this even as a Roman Catholic.

Sorry, to be more specific, there are nutballs in pretty much every schism that believe all the other sects are going to hell. Just like there are schisms in the Mormon church that think we're all going to be fine and that we'll have infinite chances to accept the gospel after we die. Most of my Mormon friends have always told me this (and they absolutely believe it) but I know there are a lot of Mormons out there who interpret that particular doctrine VERY differently.

Westboro Baptists are a great example. Everyone, and I do mean EVERYONE, who isn't a part of their angry sign-waving family is going to hell according to those psychos. Pick up a Chick tract on Catholicism to see some awesome accusations that the pope is the antichrist... Evangelicals think that modern Christians are perverting the bible with their liberal policies... Because you know Jesus came down and gave a sermon on the mount that went something like, "I am the way the truth and the light. Follow me and then split up into countless different factions and spend more time fighting with each other over who is more right than you do studying my word, praising me, or living the gospel."

You're right, there are nutballs in every group! And a few sects are way out there in terms of their beliefs.

There are sects that believe that, but plenty do not. BTW, the Westboros have less than 100 members in their group and they are pretty much all one family. They are hardly typical Christians and the publicity they get is way out of proportion to their numbers.

It's a terrible long term strategy for maintaining and growing membership. It's going to drive more nails into their coffin faster (not that LDS, Inc. will disappear - that only happens when the money runs out and they got a lot of it).

In the age of information there are hundreds of easily identified holes in the One Truly True Church doctrine. And you're right, it polarizes like crazy: the TBMs get more militant and the doubters turn away from religion altogether.

What they should do is try to get a bite out of the center where most people reside. They want the hook and line maybe, but want no sinker.

They should drop the hard line stuff of demanding absolute obedience and model themselves more like these new fangled community churches (aren't they the ones with with the most success these days?). They should distance themselves from JS and the BoM and get more Jaheezuz-oriented.

Instead they are hanging themselves with their own rope.

He talks about the Church adding to what others have and thee was no mention of "their creed being an abomination" or their 'professors corrupt" as the 1838 FV says.

That said I agree that this approach even when softened up a bit is still not the way to win hearts and minds.

badseed Wrote:
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> He talks about the Church adding to what others
> have and thee was no mention of "their creed being
> an abomination" or their 'professors corrupt" as
> the 1838 FV says.
>
> That said I agree that this approach even when
> softened up a bit is still not the way to win
> hearts and minds.


Yes. I think GBH was the first to express TSCC "adding" to what you already have as a way to convince others that mormons are Christian, too.

A TBM coworker said that to me once. My reply...."Really, has TSCC stopped teaching the first vision? You know, the one that says GOD declares ME to be the CORRUPT professor of an ABOMINABLE faith? Wow, no longer teaching the first vision, I hadn't heard that." That pretty well ended the conversation.

Oh reaaaaaaally.. I thought the crutch was distancing itself from the "one true church" claim in order to not piss so many others off. I even recall using it when I was a member, saying that while it might be the *most* true church, others have a lot of truth as well. They just don't have all the pieces of the jesus puzzle.

What a f#%king tool I was.

I'll be filing this little tidbit of a link away for future reference. Thanks!!!

drewmeister Wrote:
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> Oh reaaaaaaally.. I thought the crutch was
> distancing itself from the "one true church" claim
> in order to not piss so many others off. I even
> recall using it when I was a member, saying that
> while it might be the *most* true church, others
> have a lot of truth as well. They just don't have
> all the pieces of the jesus puzzle.


Mormonism peddles the "only true church" line to the membership. That's the selling point to them. However it's bad PR to go around telling everyone else, "your church is a sham."

So they have to say things differently in public than they do in Sunday School. So they have evolved the line "other churches have SOME truth but we have more" to make members less abrasive when trying the "every member a missionary."

Years ago when my brother was discussing religion with a catholic friend of his in high school he told the friend that, "I have more power in my little finger than the Pope has in his whole body." He had heard that at church, how only the Mormon priesthood is valid etc. However that didn't endear him to his Catholic friend. PR demands means Mormons have to nuance their message when the "world" is listening, but not when coming down on the membership.

There are two things I love about the Church--it's face.

"There are two things I love about the Church--its face".
Baura, that is one of the best quotes I've ever seen on RfM ;)

intellectualfeminist Wrote:
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> "There are two things I love about the Church--its
> face".
> Baura, that is one of the best quotes I've ever
> seen on RfM ;)


+1 +1 +1 Love it, Baura Ale.

If it is not the only truth why bother. There are a lot of churches that have my more interesting music, better meetings, better programs, don't ask as much from you.

I know a person a number of years back that enjoyed going to another church when she could, but would not leave TSCC because it was the truth. I think if you drop the only truth claim, you would lose a lot more ground.

Wow, I thought they'd given up that meme decades ago. Seems like they've been flinging all the poo they can lately in a desperate attempt to get something, ANYTHING to stick. I agree 1000% that they're hanging themselves with this rope. They already have so many ready-made nooses, it surprises me that they would dredge this one up and add to the pile. Ah well, bring it on, I say ;)

I was able to see through the morg, because I grew up non denominational Christain. I will never be a part of an organized religion again.

That "publically" they say that other churches are neat and everyone lives peacefully in a hippy love in.

And then "privately" still proclaim that they are the hottest shit god ever sprayed on mankind from heaven, and anyone who disagrees with that can fuck themselves while worshipping the devil.

That comment about it being anti-christ is interesting. It is very polarizing.

If you preach that all doctrines are the same you are anti-christ. Therefore, one can assume, that the doctrines of other churches are not only not the same, but extremely different. Because if it is anti-christ (satanic) to equivocate, how much MORE satanic is it to actually promote those other doctrines over mormonism?

In other words, the other churches are extremely anti-christ.

It's intolerance hidden inside back-slapping.

a snippet of a conversation with my dad last year:
me-"well we're Christian"
dad-"no we're mormon"
me-but the church is telling everyone we're christian
dad-yeah, well

His 'yeah,well' was said in exactly the way you would say something when you knew you were in on the secret.

............
this reminds me of when I went back to being active in the church and when something came up the older folks would sort of aknowledge certain topics like kolob or other unique teachings, but would do it like it was a secret that we don't talk about to outsiders.

Over the last 4 years it has become apparent that mormons are very good at presentation and misrepresentation. This is what we want you to see. They justify it by saying that the enemies of the church are just waiting to pounce.

What is realy happening is that members are taught from their birth to lie and manipulate to protect the church, while at the same time told to be perfectly honest so that people will see their perfect morals. That's what happened to Hal 9000.

Nail on head, JD.

Asked TBM DIL recently what the mantra "I know the church is true..." meant to her. Her reply was that it is true *for her*.

She's just 22. Could this be the younger generation's honest belief? Smells fishy.

That is a big problem with black and white thinking. They told me it was completely true, they said that things like the 1st Vision had to be exactly true or the whole church was a fraud. They said the same about the BoM and the visit of PJ&J. It is exactly the way we say it or it is all false.

So then, how do I explain all those confirmations of the Holy Ghost? Surely that is the test of truth, right? And what about the threat in DC 84 that those who reject this priesthood will have no forgiveness of sins.

They have it perfected. They tell you that doubt is a sin, they tell you that whenever you feel good it is Heavenly Father personally telling you that you are doing His will, and that anytime you feel uncomfortable it is Satan trying to take away your eternal family.

So when you come across uncomfortable information you feel bad and accept it as a warning that satan is afoot, and when you verify that the church wrote this disturbing information you are in a real bind. How is it possible that satan is working against you by showing you church writings? And those of us who have been there know that when you bring this to the Bishops attention you get called to repentance and warned about your behaviour. It can drive you to madness.

This attitude is present in the family and in the friend and they will attack out of fear.

Hinckley knew exactly what he was doing when he ended his career with these Black and White, all completely true or completely false statements. He was making sure that the hooks were deeply imbedded.

Yes, Hinckley knew all that--splitting the choice into two B&W options forces members to duck and cover under what they were given as a child. It's comforting. The world is scary.

But then you watch Hinkster take Hoffman's forgeries that pose bad light and cast grays onto his B&W world, buy them, hide them and lie.

And you see Hinkster downplay fundamental Mormon doctrines to national media, wink about it at priesthood meetings, and claim the moral high ground.

Yes, he knew what he was doing. He was Hinkster.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2011 11:16AM by Jesus Smith.

to Romney and Huntsman about their belief that if a church doesn't teach that they are the ONLY true Church, they are teaching the doctrine of the Anti-Christ.

But what the hell is "the doctrine of the anti-christ" really?

I mean, I get that it is an empty phrase meant simply to put the fear of Luciferatops into people's hearts and destrengthen their loins.

But other than that. What a stupid stupid phrase.

I also enjoyed the "fashionable" that just HAD to be thrown in there.

Oooooooooooooooooh, the world. The dirty, evil, filthy world with their "fashions."

Now pardon me while I go buy a new business suit from the $4billion dollar mall I've just built.