just finished reading: "A insiders view of Mormon origins" by, Grant Palmer.

All that I can say is about the book is... WOW!

I must admit that I'm surprised the guy is still active LDS given the information that he knows about the real foundation of Mormonism!

I highly recommend that book! Great details about the magical background of all the Book of Mormon witnesses. Great information regarding the truth about the Book of Abraham and Book of Mormon, ect.

Thanks for the recommendation. I just acquired a copy of this book myself. Glad to know it will be worthwhile reading. :-)

I read this one a while ago. It really confirmed what I'd suspected for a while. But all that stuff about retroactively changing the D&C just blew me away!

I was surprised at the amount of added made-up details. I had never heard before that the story of John the Baptist giving Joseph Smith the Aaronic priesthood... and Peter, James, and John giving them the melchizedek priesthood was made-up. Joseph Smith had a supposed revelation through the "seer stone" that told him and Oliver Cowdery to baptize each other and Joseph was known by revelation as the first Elder and Oliver the second Elder and Joseph's early revelations(pre 1835) stated that an Elder had the authority of an apostle and "apostle" and Elder were interchangeable terms. There was no visit by a resurrected being giving them the priesthood. There also was know visit from Peter, James, and John giving Joseph S. and Oliver Cowdery the Melchizedek priesthood. This was all very surprising to me.

I was in the the Pennsylvania Harrisburg Mission. We has our Mission Conference at the "Aaronic Priesthood Restoration site" which is next to the Susquehanna river... there was a giant statue of a man representing John the Baptist with one hand on Oliver Cowdery and another on Joseph Smith. We all had our picture taken in front of it. I used to think it was such a cool place.

I knew Joseph Smith was a liar, but I did not know that this was a later(many years after the fact) fabricated story.

Did you really think that 4 fictional characters from a 2000 year old fairy tale, came down from heaven and gave Joseph magical powers to rule the universe?

Eric Davis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did you really think that 4 fictional characters
> from a 2000 year old fairy tale, came down from
> heaven and gave Joseph magical powers to rule the
> universe?


I could be wrong, but I think Dougster's point is that it was surprising that this was a made-up story of a much later date. Though he did not word things as well as he could of thats for sure. Even David Whitmere said that he never heard the story of John the Baptist giving Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery the Aaronic priesthood until about 1834 or 1835. Before that they simply told everybody that they received authority from God by a revelation Joseph received through the seer stone.

D. Michael Quinn, in "The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power," covers the wholesale fabrication of the mythos we learned as the "sacred history of the Restoration."

I highly recommend Quinn's book--a good read, meticulously organized and exhaustively researched and annotated. I think Palmer references some of Quinn's work in "Insider's View."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2010 03:02AM by Fetal Deity.

I heard him speak. While still mormon he is not totally active. IIRC he will go to sacrament meeting and thats about it. He is more into Jesus and not Joseph

Thats pretty cool. Thanks the link!

That book is wonderful, because it clearly summarizes how the foundational history as taught by the LDS church is not in the same zipcode as the original source material. And he recognizes, since he was at CES, how crucial these events and texts are for the faith of the average Mormon, which is something that many historians on all sides of this debate often lose sight of.

I forgot where I read it, but this guy explained reading it while his son was on his mission and figuring a way to tell his son about is conclusion (that mormonism was a hoax after all). He decided to let he book 'speak' for itself and handed it to his son when he returned. His son, iin the middle of reading it looked at his dad, sadly saying: "It's all a fraud, isn't it". All the time and money waste. Still, late than never!
I'm also baffled how Palmer can still be a member, as does Quinn or anyone else who knows the truth. Mormon ostriches?

It's hard to say-
Grant seems to have his priorities in order. Jesus first, church second. He also wrote an excellent book called The Incomparable Jesus, which helps believers to know what to do now that the church is not true.

M.Quinn gave a rather interesting account of when he was a boy visiting some caverns that I think takes precedence over historical claims. You can read it here:
http://www.pbs.org/mormons/interviews/quinn.html

PBS asks: What were some moments where you experienced God and how did that become a foundation of your faith?

Great Book!

My TBM mother-in-law read it. We gave it to her as our choice of book that we thought most likely to shake her testimony. She agreed to read it because it was written by a TBM and was published by Signature.

She said it strengthend her testimony. I still don't understand how. She said she was just a little suprised 'the church' allowed the book to be published, but that it was published proved that 'the church' has nothing to hide. Odd.

I think my mother-in-law's experience is rare, though. She demonstrates the awesome power of cognitive dissonance.

I could be wrong, but I kinda think it didn't ACTUALLY strengthen your MIL's testimony. TBM's say this all the time as a sort of, 'see my testimony is tough as nails. Nothing you can throw at me can hurt my belief in Mo'ism,' when deep down it probably shook them a little. They just don't want to admit being wrong and they are so heavily invested in the church they'd rather pretend (to others and themselves) that they believe than give it up.

I remember being like this on mission when confronted with faith damaging information. I acted like none of it affected me when in reality it was slowly eating away at my faith. Fortunately I was the type that was obsessed with the truth no matter where it took me. I wanted the church to be true, but I also wanted to know everything good AND bad about it, and let the chips fall where they may. It took a long time for me and a lot of anti and pro books to finally reach my conclusion. I wish more TBM's would be willing to do this. They'll read something faith damaging, get scared, and never do it again.