Hi I am a frequent lurker and very infrequent contributer to this board and tonight there is a lot on my mind that I just need to let out whether or not anyone listens or even cares.

Before I write about what's eating at me I will try to express (as briefly as possible) what lead me to this point.

Three years ago this month I returned home about 10 month early from a mission to Atlanta Georgia. The reason behind my early departure was a deep depression caused by losing my testimony after reading "anti" in the religion section of a bookstore. My reason for entering the bookstore in the first place (which was strictly forbidden in my mission and I suspect all missions) was my junior companion who was a lazy do nothing who begged me to do anything other then missionary work; because I was an avid reader back home, because I missed the atmosphere of a good bookstore, and because I was tired of hearing him whine, I consented and we went. The whole story is long and irrelavent to the point at hand but to sum up I ended up in the aisle dealing with religion, found books on the church written by non-members, and was dealt worst shock of my life.


Very quickly after this incident I became, as i said, deeply depressed. At first I mentioned what I had learned to my companion and a couple missionaries in my district, but, despite showing little love for missionary work and often mocking mission life and rules, I could see they were uneasy and I stopped trying. At one point I remember feeling under so much pressure to conform and make my peers and family proud, and, at the same time, so full of loathing towards missionary work and the fraud I felt I was perpetuating, that I snapped and tore to shreds and burned (before I realized what I was doing) the white missionary rule book (a symbol of everything I now loathed). Soon after I entered therapy at LDS Family services where a pseudo-pyschologist seemed more focused on my sins (especially a "problem" I had with masterbation) and how to fix them, than the deep pyschological pain I was undergoing. It was so fucking rediculous, yet I nodded my head and pretended to agree so I could get out asap.

They put me on depression meds which did nothing for me. I became withdrawn, I slept in and refused to work. I started to call my parents home number and hang up before they answered, trying so hard to find a sympathetic ear or a means of escape, but too afraid of their disapproval go through with it.

I could no longer look at the Book of Mormom without disgust and loathing; what I had once regarded as holy and priceless became so much rubish--I refused to read it.

After a couple more weeks I began to mention my problems with the church to my mission president, who tried to brush them off. I gave up quickly so as not to cause an argument. I told him my depression was not getting better and that I thought I should go home. He told me instead that I needed to see the doctor again. I did this and was given a stronger prescription. The damn situation was nuts, I mean why were they so adamant that I stay? If drugging me numb was the only way to keep me there what made them think that was worth it? I took my drugs very infrequently (basically only when I was reminded by my comp who had been asked to tattle for the MP) and finally, after continued letters to prez detailing my depression, I was sent home honorably for medical reasons.

To my parents credit, though there has been some disappointment expressed, they have been very loving and supporting from day one. When I hear the horror stories of the way many of you have been treated by family I realize how lucky I am to have them.

I attended church my first Sunday home at my old family ward and felt, for the first time in my life, completely out of place and uncomfortable. There were many familiar faces and everyone was friendly, but I couldn't shake the feeling of disgust, the feeling that everyone in that building was horribly duped and wasting their lives serving a lie. For a week and a half I tried to regain a testimony by reading the B.O.M. (could never get beyond the first couple pages), praying (couldn't make myself believe there was anyone up there who gave a shit), and listening to LDS music (some of the uplifting EFY songs--ones that didn't mention much doctrine --helped a little) and then I grew weary, decided it wasn't worth the effort, and just stopped. After reading books like "Mormon America" and "No Man Knows My History" (and a few by Hitchens, Dawkins and Harris) I essentially became and atheist (though I admit I hope sometimes for an afterlife. More on that soon) and began to speak out against the church and religion in general, especially on FB by writing notes on and debating on LDS pages like "Joseph Smith the Prophet".

The other thing I did as soon as I got home was pick back up where I left off with my pre-mish girlfriend, who luckily had become inactive in the intervening months. She had recently lost her father under the most sad circumstances (he died of a heart attack several hundred miles aways from where she lives and, because he was something of hermit, was not found until he had been dead several days) and was struggling with the "what if's" and the "why didn't I's?" as in "Why didn't I call him and tell him I loved him more often?" and "What if I hadn't been so snotty the last time we talked?". We both were struggling but we helped each other through and today are much happier and infact are expecting a baby boy and getting married in a day and a half, and this is what brings me to main purpose for writing.

The fact is I love this girl more than life itself (cliche I know, but true), and that love has only gotten stronger as we have gone to doctor appointments to see our baby via ultrasound. I cannot tell you how much it pains me right now that I cannot believe in eternal life or eternal families, because I really really want to be with her and my child forever and its almost more than I can bear than to think of that I can have them only for the short duration of whatever time I have left. Do you ever look in your spouses eyes and just hope against hope that there might just possibly be some sort of after life so that you never have to stop looking in those eyes? When you held your newborn infant in your arms and felt all the love a parent must feel in that situation, did you hope, for even a second, that there just might be a God and heaven where you could have him/her forever? Logically I cannot believe any of these things, in God, in heaven, in an eternal life where I can be with my wife and child, and it hurts more than I have hurt in a while. It just doesn't make any sense that you can love someone so much, and have them taken from you forever (and yet it is completely logical). Of course we will all die one day and likely will cease to exist so in the end I suppose it doesn't matter--we won't be around to grieve at our non-existence. But tonight that really isn't comforting and I can see even more clearly why people cling so strongly to their religion; sometimes it the only line of defense against a world full of pain and disapointment. All of this makes me wonder if the only reason I am so stressed and pained by all this is because of my Mormon indoctrination--perhaps I have had it drilled in my head so many times that families are forever that it hurts all the more to find out thats not true. I cherished that belief more than any other when I was active (it probably was the only thing about the church that really offered hope and gave me peace as a child) and to have it dashed and faced with losing a wife and a child forever is almost more than I can bear. Makes me wish I had been born into an atheist family so I could have been spared this heartbreak from the beginning. At least I am going through this at 25 instead of 65, gives me hope that I may recover and be whole in the future. I am so sick of the hold the church still has on me.

please excuse the poor spelling and grammer, I should have proof read it before posting.

Congratulations on leaving the mission early, on your marriage, and the coming birth of a baby boy.

Those are very good things to savor and be proud of.

The emotional stress and pain are the results of mormonism. We can't just casually shake off what the mormon church did to us bit by bit every day over many years. It's the church that's crazy and broken and trying to adjust to it was hurtful to us.

Thankfully, you, your wife, and your baby won't be going to those meetings and be under pressure to adjust to their sick programming any more. But it takes time, insight, and some effort to heal from everything we've suffered. Good luck and warm thoughts to you.

And yours seemed better than most to me. Of course I have a reputation as the worst speller on this board. LOL

I'm fine with that if it makes some others more comfortable about sharing and not worrying so much about such superficialities.

I compose my stuff on Microsoft Word, spell check it and copy it over, I'm pretty sure that I could win the worst spelling award.

As for advice, just go live your life and be free.

I have a bit of a different take on the afterlife. I consider myself agnostic. I do believe in an afterlife, but, as you say, I won't know if there isn't one as I will cease to exist, so I can hope (I lost both parents 2 years ago, so I do hope).

BUT I bought into the forever family. It was the biggest selling point for me and why I was so devout. I never wanted to lose my husband and children--I wanted a guarantee. Then I met someone who is gay and they told me if I didn't save him, that he would be damned. I lost my husband--I lost him before I even had him. We are best friends now.

WHY, may I ask, WOULD A LOVING GOD make a situation like mine and then say, "Even if you have sacrificed so much for this relationship, you have to keep jumping through hoops and he has to keep jumping through hoops to be together forever?"

My views of an afterlife are very simple now. WHY would we not be with those people we love? Are you sealed to your best friend? Are you sealed to your dog? If my dogs aren't in an afterlife, I don't want to be there.

I truly believe IF there is an afterlife--then you will be with those you love.

As for that idea anyway--why should we wait for an afterlife to enjoy them as much as we can here? Why is everyone spending so much time doing things for the LDS church rather than spending time with their families? I have spent far more time with my children than their mormon friends' parents have. My ex--who left when they were 10--has spent far more time and has a much better relationship with his kids than most mormon dads. We didn't have a family to enjoy in the next life. We had them to enjoy TODAY. AND who says that I can't be with this man I still love as a friend--and be with my boyfriend, too?

It is all bullshit. I have a much better view of death nowadays. I am not worried if I'm not perfect I'll never see my parents again. I believe no matter what type of person I am--that if there is an afterlife, I will see them again--and I don't have to do anything but BE ME to do so.

carry over into a form of energy for a continued existence in another form? If we're completely honest, truth is we don't know. We do see that every day science is discovering strange and irrefutable facts about subatomic particles who appear to be on the same wave length. They observe particles which are matter in some situations and energy (wave) in another. So apparently the rules are not as clear cut as they may seem.

I take heart in the thought that love is the most powerful energy there is, and if anything goes on, love does. It's not a romantic notion--our positive thoughts manifest (attract) what we want. This is what prayer REALLY is (ha--as if I knew for sure--all my opinion). Yours brought you the love of your life, so you can consider your "prayers" answered!

What if I promised you sex in heaven and you discovered you had a spirit body. Your expectation would make you perhaps disappointed even though you were in heaven.

One of the great secrets of happiness is to manage your paradigm...manage your expectations instead of being disappointed with reality.

Good luck to you and I'm so very happy you have someone you love so deeply that eternity seems unbearable without her. Many people are unable to ever feel that deep a love, ever. It is a gift.

Anagrammy

Sometimes in these moments of intense joy or intense sadness we wish for the security we once felt when we were believing Mormons. It is a normal experience when we first realize there is no heaven, no forever after but it gets better as we forge out our own path. We get to decide.

Just remembering how we felt trying to be the Church's definition of us helps us see how much better life in general is without the Church. A lot of the pain you feel comes from how we were conditioned by the doctrine and teachings. It's like an onion, we just keep peeling off the layers to discover what works for us and we want to define ourselves without Mormon craziness. It takes time.

Congratulations on your marriage and the coming birth of your child.

What a gift you will be to your child for your son will have parents who won't indoctrinate him in the Mormon Church. And he won't have to go on a mission.

Physical death, I just don't think Mormons are in charge of the ticket booth.

I choose to believe that our spirits will live on after we die.

What I don't believe is that I have to be a cult member, pay tithe to a bunch of crooks and serve their organization for better placement in the hereafter.

As I said in my resignation letter, I no longer believe that there is a Prophet of God on earth today who has any authority from God, what happens after I die is in Gods hands and my salvation or eternal life is not conditioned on my membership in their organization! They have no power, authority or real knowledge of what happens to us after we die.

If there is a God they better be afraid because they’re in big trouble, which is another thing that tells me they don’t believe their own crap, if they did they’d be more worried about their lies and corruption and Gods consequences.

I agree with They don't want me back. Mormons aren't the only ones who believe in life after death. You can choose to believe in an afterlife or you can choose not to. That's the beauty of enlightenment. No one is telling you what you "have" to believe.

I grew up a Presbyterian and though I was never particularly devout, I was assured that there was a heaven and it would be wonderful. And that concept included seeing friends and loved ones who had gone before me... Personally, I'm not that excited about seeing family members after I die. I'd prefer to see my dearly departed pets, who have always been more of a comfort to me than most humans (with the exception of my wonderful husband).

There's no way to really know what happens after one dies. You no longer believe in a system that tries to control your mind and tells you what you "know". That's a cause for celebration... but it sounds to me like you already have so many reasons to celebrate this weekend. Congratulations to you and your budding family!

...believed in an afterlife long before Jesus of Nazareth was heard of in their culture. If you watch the ending of the movie, "Gladiator", at the end the gladiator, who has just been killed, is seen walking off into the Elysian Fields (the final resting place for the virtuous and heroic.) You can see his family waiting for him.

The way Mormons sell the CK and eternal families, it makes believers feel that the Mormons have a lock on these concepts. That's very black/white all-or-nothing thinking that isn't necessarily so.

I believe that someday we will understand more than we do now about our survival beyond our physical existence. I believe that there is a rational explanation for it that is grounded in the physics of how life and our universe works.

When my mom died I got a lot of comfort from spiritualist Sylvia Browne's books. She is a believer, but she presents a lot of interesting ideas about how things work in the afterlife that gave me a lot to think about. You might give her book, "Life on the Other Side" a glance. I've also enjoyed William Buhlman's book, "Adventures Beyond the Body" which is about astal projection/out-of-body experiences. He attempts to link his experiences with concepts of modern physics. Again, you might not buy the whole concept, but it may nonetheless give you some new points of view to consider.

Congratulations on your marriage and your soon-to-be bundle of joy! :-)

So we can now proceed to investigate our spiritual philosophies without religion.

We can stop considering what the Mormon Church teaches; we know that everything they teach is designed to steal from us our God given free agency, to convince us that they have power and authority from God and that we have to pay tithing to them, that we have to submit to their authority in our lives and support their cause.

You were taught your whole life that in order to be together in the afterlife you had to be "sealed" in the temple. Just because that's a lie, doesn't mean there isn't an afterlife or that your family won't be together. Lots of non-mormons believe in eternal families; but they don't believe you have to know a secret handshake, etc to be together.

Congratulations on your wedding and your child. Now you can build your own eternal family. Build it your own way, founded in love which will grow as you experience life together. Many wise people have said the bonds of love are eternal.

I have no idea what happens when we die. I don't worry about it. I choose to live in the now and I try appreciate my family every day--to take time for them, express my love, and enjoy being with them. That's what we can do in this life, not waste energy worrying about which church has the true secret code words to heaven.

Part of the pain of leaving the church, if you totally bought in at some point, is that your whole view of how life works has to change. Sometimes it is hard, as you described.

I had a child die while I was TBMish. It was a great comfort to know that I'd be with that child again. When I found out it was all a big lie, I felt so screwed for not "knowing" that I'd be with this child again. I had to mourn the loss all over again.

Right now I doubt that there is a God at all. And if there is, he's kind of a douche bag God. I think I'd make a better God right now. But I'm willing to not know what there really is.

If I die and see other people, I'll be fine with that. If I die and it's over, I won't even know I'm dead. I'm just totally content to not know, and not care.

Say that for some unfathomable reason, the Mormons have it right. When I die I'll tell God, "How can you hold this against me. You choose to let your church be built on a bunch of lies, be continually led by a bunch of liars, and you're are kind of a dick; and you're surprised that I didn't believe it all?" That's what I'd say, and I'd be content with whatever he said back. I can't believe that it'll happen at all though.

You will have to go through a mourning process of not having what brought you comfort, get comfortable with what is, and you can be pissed that you were toyed with in such a way.

Best of luck.

I understand where you are coming from. Life is precious. No matter what happens after you die, the life you have now is so precious and fleeting. I don't know what I believe now. I have trouble having faith in anything or anybody. But I have 2 small children whom I love deeply. They have already grown so fast and so big that it is dizzying. I miss feeling each of them kick in my stomach. I would recommend you cherish every moment you have with your soon-to-be wife and your child. Every time you put your hand on her belly and feel him kick is a wonder. His first smile, steps, tooth, tantrum, and skinned knee are here and gone before you blink. Live in the moment, try not to worry about things that you have no control over. It really doesn't matter if you believe in God and Heaven or not. If He is real, you will find out when you die. If not, you won't know the difference. (in my very unsure opinion.) What is most important is to cherish our loved ones while we have them in front of us.

I've been thinking half the night about this post--and about my response--and I agree with piper.

My kids will turn 25 on November 21st--they are boy/girl twins.

Just this time of year--even 25 years later--I remember the feelings of waiting for them to be born. The magic of it all.

You will only raise this child ONCE--enjoy it. It won't be easy. It never is. BUT there will be moments filled with utter joy and utter pain. Their birth was the single most important event in my life and even 25 years later (as I struggle with their issues at age 25) I can still feel the feelings as though it was yesterday. Like piper (I believe) said--I still miss them kicking in my stomach.

Being a parent has been both the hardest thing I've ever done and the most rewarding. ENJOY IT. You have all this extra time now that you aren't mormon. Take advantage of it.

AND in reality, would you want to live in the CK? The mormon idea of a forever family sounds good on the surface until you really think about it.

....for a good run of 70 or 80 years, it's worth it. I subscribe to the "Hamlet" view: "There are more things in Heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in you philosophy, Horatio." In other words, no matter what anyone sells as a religious belief, the adherants of that belief will be in for a big shock at what's REALLY out there. And, like I said, if you live a good, honorable life, and raise a loving family, then even if it's "lights out" when you're 90 years old, you'll have no regrets, instead of wasting your life fretting about being "worthy" of what the LDS insists is the only official authorized version of the hereafter.

gonna be all right.

That was a beautiful and compelling story. I believe in something that could be called eternity. I believe that eveery moment of life is an eternal moment. Treasure it.

I don't believe in guilt, doubt, fear, pain and dishonesty.

Good luck. I'm glad I read your post.

Congrats on your marriage and first child!

Do not worry about losing the forever family belief. Mormons are not the only people who have strong beliefs about life after death.

I'm a believer in reincarnation - I believe souls live many different lifetimes to improve on mistakes from past lives and experience new life to wisen the soul, and that groups of souls are bound to each other, although from lifetime to lifetime they may reincarnate as different roles to one another (in one life, a father in son, the next... perhaps as siblings, etc). You know how some people, regardless of age, seem to have an innate wisdom about them? Often people call them "old souls," and they are the ones who despite being young in this life, have lived many lifetimes and experienced many new things.

I don't agree in a religion-exclusionary afterlife. The soul is free to intermingle across faiths as it pleases. So please - do brush off your sorrows as Mormon indoctrination. :) Find your own interpretation of life after death and the connection between you and your loved ones (both family and friends), and find peace in it.

Stage one of recovery from Mormonism is experiencing the the shock and awe of realizing what you've been taught as most precious is mostly hogwash. I don't think you're completely through that phase yet. Take a deep breath and take it one day at a time - you'll get there.

At some point you have to rewire yourself to make for a happy, peaceful life which is quite doable even if you don't believe in an afterlife. Remember that NOBODY, despite what they may say to the contrary, has all the answers.

One book I read that got me on the road to rewiring was the "The Happiness Hypothesis" by Jonathan Haidt. He has a theory for a formula for creating your own happiness that's built on ancient wisdom and research. There's lots of great thinking going on out there - you just have to plug into it.

Hang in there, you'll get there.

Best wishes,

Mr. Tranquility.

Thank you all for your support and suggestions, they helped a lot. I am always impressed at the kindness the members of the board show to others who are experiencing difficult times. This is just another nail in the coffin of the Church who call us all "bitter" and "wicked". I mean who would have thought the Spawn of Satan could feel things like sympathy and compassion? ;)

Thanks again for the support and well wishes, in 24 hours I will be a married man and in 3 months a proud father!

Congratulations on finding the truth about mormonism, your soon-to-be wife and soon-to-be baby! It's all fabulous.

You are 25? Do not give up on God so early or so easily. It is way too soon for you to come to the conclusion that there is no God. Give it some time. Live your life, enjoy your wife and baby, and then when the time is right, check out a non denominational Christian church (to you atheists, I am a Christian, where I am supposed to suggest he go?).

The Bible says if you seek you will find. I believe that. It worked for me. The Bible also makes it clear that we will see our loved ones in heaven, IF they are born again too. That means, they put your faith in Jesus. (Sorry about the big IF, but I do not make the rules.)

For now, count your blessings and try to heal from the brainwashing of the cult, and the terrible shock it was to find out that it was all (and continues to be) a very carefully crafted pack of lies.

it took me 25 years AFTER my mission to face up to all the things i put on the shelf.