I have always known about the King Follet discourse and how Joseph Smith used it as a way to prove that there are characteristics about God we do not know about until this sermon. He has, and it has, been used to prove that we can be gods one day. The following paragraph hit me the other day when I read it and googled the word "Berosheit". That is when it all hit that he did not have a clue about Hebrew and was making stuff up.

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I shall comment on the very first Hebrew word in the Bible. I will make a comment on the very first sentence of the history of creation in the Bible--Berosheit. I want to analyze the word. Baith--in, by, through, and everything else. Rosh--the head. Sheit--grammatical termination. When the inspired man wrote it, he did not put the Baith there. An old Jew, without any authority, added the word. He thought it too bad to begin to talk about the head! It read first, "The head one of the Gods brought forth the Gods." That is the true meaning of the words. Baurau signified to bring forth. If you do not believe it, you do not believe the learned man of God. Learned men can teach you no more than what I have told you. Thus, the head God brought forth the Gods in the grand council.

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Here is a great site which explains it simply.

http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=332:joseph-smiths-translation-of-genesis-11&catid=142:mormons&Itemid=505

Wow, Joe Smith, Master Blowhard, at it again! What apologist has ever tackled this boner? None that I've seen--as a matter of fact this is the first I've heard of it. Good find.

BEROSHEIT!

Speaking of blowhards....

All I know is "Berashith" is the Hebrew word for beginning, translated as Genesis in Latin. If anything, JS was doing a little on-the-fly gematria, breaking it down by its major consonants, B-R-Sh or Beth (House) Resh (Head) Shin (Sharp).

So he was about 1/3 right (he god "head" right but only from the viewpoint of interpreting the letter by itself rather than as part of the whole word.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bereshith

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beth_(letter)

From the Torah:
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0101.htm

Prepositions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefixes_in_Hebrew#Prepositions

The word ראשית:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ראשית

Etymology
From the same as ראש

Pronunciation
ראשׁית / rê'shîyth / ray-sheeth'

Noun
ראשׁית
1. the first, in place, time, order or rank (specifically a firstfruit): - beginning, chief (-est), first (-fruits, part, time), principal thing.

interesting thread, nice info...

By that time Smith had taken lessons in Hebrew. It would seem, though, that the transcription and pronounciation he was taught, was not the one that is standard today.

And his analysis of the words are of course way off.

You mean "Pronunciation" rather than "Pronounciation"? Everyone on this forum is more educated than Joseph Smith who attended only three years of school in his youth. So naturally we're all qualified to pile on with our intellectual attacks.

"Everyone on this forum is more educated than Joseph Smith who attended only three years of school in his youth. So naturally we're all qualified to pile on with our intellectual attacks."

But---but---Joseph Smith allegedly had direct communication with the Creator of the Universe from age 14 to the day of his death. So he should have been a little more accurate in his pronouncements than we mere mortals.

You mean pronuncements? ;-)

This interpretation of Bereshit comes straight from the Zohar, the prime work of Kabbalah. Alexander Neibuhr (sp?), a jewish convert and Kabbalist taught this to Joseph Smith.

This is another indication that Mormonism is really a Hermetic Christian Gnosis - and I like it that way.

balaamsass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This interpretation of Bereshit comes straight
> from the Zohar, the prime work of Kabbalah.

This long, opaque thing which they translate "The Book of Splendor" was a medieval Spanish Jew's foray into schemes to produce fake "holy scripture."

He was called Moses De Leon and claimed to translate Zohar from stuff found in a Palestine cave.

The wife of this Moses reported that hubby made it all up.

Does the pseudepigrapha racket start to sound familiar now?

balaamsass adds: ( I think Alexander Neibuhr (sp?), a jewish convert and Kabbalist taught this to Joseph Smith).

I remember the Neibuhr clan changed its name to "Nibley" and gifted the modern Mormon world with a whirling Dervish named Hugh.

elderpopejoy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> balaamsass adds: ( I think Alexander Neibuhr
> (sp?), a jewish convert and Kabbalist taught this
> to Joseph Smith).
>
> I remember the Neibuhr clan changed its name to
> "Nibley" and gifted the modern Mormon world with a
> whirling Dervish named Hugh.

According to Wikipedia, Alexander Neibaur was the first Jew to convert to mormonism, but he'd already converted to christianty. It was indeed Neibaur who was a buddy to JS and gave him some instruction in Germany and Hebrew.

Neibaur had married a gal from a devote Church of England family, so there would be no extension of judaism in descendants. And it was their daughter Rebecca who married Charles Nibley, allowing Neibaur to be the great grandfather of Hugh, Reid and Richard Nibley.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Neibaur

Easy there Gram...joey likely had two more years of school than many on the frontier...perhaps why he found bull shitting so many so easy...he could and did read voraciously where many couldnt...conning folks isnt something you learn imo...its something your born with...joe needed no help in that pursuit...and i doubt he needs your support either...his legacy speaks for itself...repeat together now BURRO SHEIT

Without Gram, I would not have been able to bookmark this very, very interesting thread.

Thanks for that, Gram! Ya done did a good thing!


ETA: when I bookmarked it, the title I'd be seeing during future searches was quite bland, so I added "JS fůcks up again"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2016 04:27PM by elderolddog.

fůcks? How does one pronounce this?

'One' doesn't. Two or more do.

For the TL;DR crowd:

"All said, Smith shows himself to have been a fraud who misled his followers with fanciful renderings of Scripture."

I have seen the name Judic West come up before on this board. Googled and no entry. Info on who this was?

Gatorman

You have to go to page two or three of Google to find mention of the true blue Judic West, the silly Mexican's alter ego...

He's so tall, and White!

ETA: Alas! Google no longer keeps careful track of the adventures of Judic West!! I had to go to page 32!!!!!! to find a mention of Judic! It's like he doesn't exist anymore! I HATE it when good taste rules!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2016 08:10PM by elderolddog.

Sheit -- Joseph Smith concoction.
All of it.

"This is the Forest Primeval . . . Bereshit in the woods."