--The Book of Mormon "Eyewitnesses" Done Had One of Them Phony Baloney "Out-of-Body" Experiences

"All this really proves is that Whitmer equated a 'spiritual view' as being as natural to him 'as it is at any time.' Language that equates things that are 'natural' with things seen in a vision should caution any thoughtful person to pause before assuming that any of the witnesses saw physical plates."
_____


--But Wait Just a Durned Minute! We Got Other Witnesses (Who, Well, Kinda Sound Like the First Witnesses)

" . . . [S]everal historians and researchers recount a statement made by John Whitmer that makes their experience sound similar to the three witnesses. Whitmer was excommunicated from the LDS Church on March 10, 1838, along with W.W. Phelps. Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer would also be excommunicated a month later.

"On April 5, 1839 Theodore Turley challenged John Whitmer to either affirm or deny his testimony regarding the gold plates. Whitmer responded by saying the plates ‘were shown to me by a supernatural power' ('History of the Church,' Vol. 3, p. 307). Why would supernatural power be necessary if the plates actually existed?

"Hill commented on a letter written by Hiram Page to the 'Ensign of Liberty' in 1848. In it Page defended his belief that the Book of Mormon was a work of the Lord. However, Hill conceded that Page did not actually say he saw the plates:

"'With only a veiled reference to "what I saw," Page does not say he saw the plates but that angels confirmed him in his faith. Neither does he say that any coercion was placed upon him to secure his testimony. Despite Page's inconsistencies, it is difficult to know what to make of Harris' affirmation that the eight saw no plates in the face of John Whitmer's testimony.

"'The original testimony of these eight men in the Book of Mormon reads somewhat ambiguously, not making clear whether they handled the plates or the "leaves" of the translated manuscript. Thus there are some puzzling aspects to the testimonies of the witnesses.

"'If Burnett's statement is given credence it would appear that Joseph Smith extorted a deceptive testimony from the eight witnesses. But why should John Whitmer and Hiram Page adhere to Mormonism and the Book of Mormon so long if they only gave their testimony reluctantly? It may be that like the three witnesses they expressed a genuine religious conviction. The particulars may not have seemed as important as the ultimate truth of the work.' ('Dialogue,' Vol.7, No.4, pp.84-85)
_____


--"Ferget the Evidence! Just Believe What Our Eyewitnesses Say They Spiritually Saw!

"Richard L. Anderson, in his faith-promoting book titled 'Investigating the Book of Mormon Witnesses,' insists that readers must take the testimony of the eleven witnesses at 'face value.' William D. Russell, a member of the Community of Christ and professor of history of the LDS movement at Graceland University, strongly disagrees:

“'Perhaps one should not expect that a book about the witnesses to the Book of Mormon published by Deseret Book Company would be anything other than an attempt to strengthen the reader's faith in the Book of Mormon. This book will be convincing to those already certain that the gold plates actually existed and that the eleven witnesses saw them. And even the detached reader will probably be convinced by Anderson's research that the witnesses were honest men who sincerely believed their signed testimony and probably stuck by their story as long as they lived.

"'But Anderson is really trying to have us conclude more than this. He would have the reader be convinced that because these men were honest and reaffirmed their testimony when asked, they actually saw and handled plates which contained the records of an ancient people.

"'I believe that Anderson--like the eleven witnesses--is an honest and sincere man when he writes: "After years of working with their lives and their words, I am deeply convinced that their printed testimonies must be taken at face value" (p. xii). But I don't believe that his research by itself requires this conclusion. As he admits, "[S]piritual truths must be spiritually verified" (p. 82). Believers must make a "leap of faith," apprehending with their "spiritual eyes" rather than their "natural eyes." ('Investigating the Investigation,' in 'Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought,' Vol.16, No.2, pp.132-33)
_____


--Sorry, Boys, But Why Should We Believe What You Say When the Evidence Just Don't Hold Up?

"It seems foolish to take the testimony of the witnesses at face value if there is further information available that helps us to understand how certain key words were understood and used by the writer/speaker.

"For example, if a person took the stand in a court room and said he saw the defendant use a gun to steal another person’s wallet, such an account would tend to carry significant weight with the jury. However, if the same person said he saw the defendant 'in a vision' using a gun to steal a wallet, the strength of the testimony is incredibly weakened. Why? Because rational people do not equate visionary experiences with tangible, physical objects."
_____


--But the Prophet Joe Had the Gold Plates Hidden--and Our Spiritual Eyes Then Done Saw Them!

"There is no denying that Smith did have in his possession something that resembled what could be plates of some sort. However, whatever it was he had was kept from view, usually covered up with a cloth or placed in a box. Mormon historian Richard L. Bushman speaks of Smith’s father-in-law, Isaac Hale, who said, 'I was allowed to feel the weight of the box and they gave me to understand, that the plates was then in the box – into which I was not allowed to look.' (Bushman, 'Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling,' p. 63)

"Bushman also notes that during the brief time Martin Harris was Smith’s scribe, a curtain was hung between Joseph and Martin 'to prevent Harris from seeing the plates.” (Bushamn, 'Rough Stone Rolling,' p.66)

"Hill records that William Smith said his father 'never saw the plates except under a frock” ('Brodie Revisited,' in 'Dialogue,' Vol.7, No.4, p .84). William said, 'In consequence of his vision, and his having the golden plates and refusing to show them, a great persecution arose against the whole family, and he was compelled to remove into Pennsylvania with the plates. He went on to say that his brother translated the plates using the “Urim and Thummim” placed in a hat, the plates were “lying nearby covered up.”' ('A New Witness for Christ in America,' Vol. 2, pp. 416-17).

"This concurs with the description given by his sister-in-law Emma Smith.

"Writes Bushman:

“'Emma said she sat at the same table with Joseph, writing as he dictated, with nothing between them, and the plates wrapped in a linen cloth on the table. When Cowdery took up the job of scribe, he and Joseph translated in the same room where Emma was working. Joseph looked into the seer stone, and the plates lay covered on the table.' (Bushman, 'Rough Stone Rolling,' p.71).

"Emma said she 'felt the plates as they lay on a table' wrapped in a linen tablecloth. She said the plates were pliable like thick paper and that they “would rustle with a metallic sound when the edges were moved by the thumb” (Bushman, 'Rough Stone Rolling,' p. 70). If that is true, then it is certain that the plates were not made of gold since soft metal pages made of gold would not make such a sound."
_____


--The Mormon Witnesses Witnessed, Dag Nab It! (It Just Wasn't a Physical Witness Thing, That's All . . .)

"Several LDS sources give the eleven men who bore their testimony to the authenticity of the Book of Mormon the special title of eyewitness; however, it appears doubtful that any of them actually saw the plates apart from a supernatural and subjective experience. . . .

"Such persons include Joseph Smith’s mother, Lucy Mack Smith. Lucy admitted she never saw the plates, but she claimed to have handled what she was told were plates of 'pure gold.' As mentioned earlier, Joseph Smith’s wife Emma also claimed that she handled the plates when she moved them to 'do her work' in the Smith home, though she insisted that she never uncovered them."
_____


--Hey! Don't You Dare Go Messin' With Our Mysterious Sensations, Ya Hear?

"[While] [s]everal LDS sources give the eleven men who bore their testimony to the authenticity of the Book of Mormon the special title of eyewitness. . . . it appears doubtful that any of them actually saw the plates apart from a supernatural and subjective experience.

"While they all claimed to have handled what they were told were ancient plates, they did so while the plates were covered up and not visible. That being case, how is their experience any different from others who also claimed to handle the plates? Such persons include Joseph Smith’s mother, Lucy Mack Smith. Lucy admitted she never saw the plates, but she claimed to have handled what she was told were plates of 'pure gold.' . . . . Joseph Smith’s wife Emma also claimed that she handled the plates when she moved them to 'do her work' in the Smith home, though she insisted that she never uncovered them.

". . . [I]f the eleven are called eyewitnesses, why not Lucy and Emma as well? After all, their experiences with what they thought were gold plates are really not much different than that of the eleven.

"Mormons might find this conclusion troubling since it tends to take away some of the mysterious sensation associated with the accepted folklore, but it is a consistent conclusion when it comes to comparing the experiences of those involved. If Mormons want to insist that a person can’t be considered an eyewitness to the authenticity of the gold plates unless they actually saw them, then there were no eyewitnesses to Joseph Smith’s gold plates.
_____


--Hey, Joseph! You Shut Yer Trap, Too! (and That Also Goes for Yer Mother!)

"An account by Joseph's mother ('Joseph Smith, The Prophet And His Progenitors For Many Generations,' by Lucy Smith, 1853, pp. 138-9 . . . ) makes it apparent that Joseph himself did not believe anyone had seen the plates until after the translation was complete:

"'As soon as the Book of Mormon was translated, Joseph dispatched a messenger to Mr. Smith, bearing intelligence of the completion of the work, and a request that Mr. Smith and myself should come immediately to Waterloo . . .

"'Joseph, Martin, Oliver and David repaired to a grove a short distance from the house, where they commenced calling upon the Lord, and continued in earnest supplication, until He permitted an angel to come down from His presence, and declare to them, that all which Joseph had testified of concerning the plates was true.

"'When they returned to the house, it was between three and four o'clock in the afternoon. Mrs. Whirmer, Mr. Smith and myself were sitting in a bedroom at the time. On coming in, Joseph threw himself down beside me and exclaimed, 'Father, mother, you do not know how happy I am; the Lord has now caused the plates to be shown to three more besides myself. . .'"
_____


--You Tell 'Em, Brother B.H!

"The Annonation by B.H. Roberts:

"'The difference between the testimony given the Three Witnesses and that given to the Eight is that the former was attended by a splendid display of the glory and power of God and the ministration of an angel, while the latter was attended by no such display but was a plain, matter-of-fact exhibition of the plates by the Prophet to his friends; and they not only saw the plates, but handled them and examined the engravings upon them.' (annotation in 'History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints,' p. 58)

(Source: Bill McKeever, "Did the Eleven Witnesses Actually See the Gold Plates?," at: http://www.mrm.org/eleven-witnesses)
_____


"OBEs" in Mormonism; "OBEs" out of Mormonism. As the ancient philosopher Demosthenes observed:

"Nothing is easier than self-deceit, for what each man wishes, that he also believes to be true."



Edited 10 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2011 06:51PM by steve benson.

Paul, of the Bible said, "whether in the body or out, I could not tell." Many, not all OBE report a silver cord running from the spirit body the the head region of the physical body. In Ecleastics (sp) it says, " if ever the silver cord be cut etc., than the body turns to dust, meaning death....I do not believe in the Bible, I am atheist, but when I read these statements, it appears that OBE are being reported. I do not testify what they said is true or not, but they did say it...

Attaching the fraud of the BOM witnesses to OBE is a far reach of imagination. (sp) NOthing reported in OBE literature has any resemblemce to the fraud of BM witness. How you see connections in unrealted events spins my head...You lump all metaphysical events into one conclusion, they simple do not exsist.

I am not so bold to close the door on all metaphysical events. Certainly there is fraud in much reporting, but I just can't dismiss the thousands of people who report such events.

I am waiting for MJ now to cheer your position. I have turned my fan on, and turned off my BS machine. Speak,right hand man.. Being in a minority at any time has nothing to do with truth. I am unable to understand these events, but my mind is open to all things that I do not know.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2011 06:30PM by get her done.

At least the Book of Mormon "eyewitnesses" claimed that their fantastic voyages were "spiritual" OBEs (although some of them also tried to pass them off as being physical, too). Typical "OBE" gibberish.

Even Mormon apologists, when confronted with the lack of physical authentication for these fantastic claims, fall back on insisting that it ultimately was all "spiritual" (i.e., "OBE-ish"). Trouble is, these Book of Mormon "OBE" claims are clearly undermined by the historical record.

As for Paul, he didn't know what the hell was going on, just like he said.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2011 07:40PM by steve benson.

Agree, but he seemed to know something about OBE. What about my other bible quote...concerning the silver cord. Both are a mystery to me, maybe you have some light on that subject.

The fact that he says he couldn't tell if it was in-body or out-body opens a hole big enough for a truck to drive through that it could have well been out, rather than in.

Paul is not a good witness. He'd get scissored on cross-ex by any decent lawyer and would be a defense attorney's worst nightmare.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2011 06:48PM by steve benson.

Silver cord??????????????? Even Jesus did not do well in court, did he...Casey A. and her court proved she did not murder her child...I have little respect for our courts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2011 06:48PM by get her done.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2011 06:47PM by steve benson.

Tell OJ about the justice of our courts....now there is science and truth in a single glove. The jury could not spell DNA. Do you really want to hang your hat on the court system.

Not so quick on the silver cord. Google"silver cord and Bible"...I learned something.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2011 06:54PM by get her done.

"This silver cord is our spirit body's 'lifeline' to our physical body in the same way that our umbilical cord is our 'lifeline' to our mother's body during the birth process."

(Kevin Willaims, "Research Conclusions: "The NDE and the Silver Cord," at: http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research12.html)

(By the way, Williams cites Susan Blackmore as being a believer in so-called "near-death experiences" when, in fact, Williams has her saying that her own "NDE" was induced by experimental drug use. You need to read these things more carefully before you throw them up here as supposed proof for your position).


Now, where does it say all this stuff about the "silver cord" in the Bible? And even if it did say that (which, of course, it doesn't), where's the scientific proof that supports that goofy declaration?

Wait. You were just bemoaning in another thread that so much that you want to accept as true lacks empirical authentication. In that regard, "get her done," you're no different than Mormon "eyewitnesses" to the gold plates.

Get it?

:)



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2011 07:42PM by steve benson.

do you disbelieve the the people that say they have had "obe"'s....or more precisely, do you believe that people are lying about these experiences? or that what is labeled as "obe's" are mearly a trick of the neuron pathways in our brain? .......



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2011 07:05PM by bignevermo.

It's kinda like sincerely believing in ghosts because you get the tingles, when scientific research has demonstrated that certain low-frequency sound waves, for instance, can induce those kind of feelings through stimulating identifiable centers in the brain.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2309505.stm



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2011 07:15PM by steve benson.

Wow, now that is a real personel insult...ha

I tried to paste but couldn't....it is a simple google and the first entry...it appears to ber some type of unbilical cord. Who the hell knows but many report see such in OBE and knowing that if it breaks it is death...Not all report it...many do. About 20% as I remember the literature....if you want to see it, just google it....It is interesting.

Accessible evidence for how it supposedly works, please.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2011 07:03PM by steve benson.

Steve as per your request.....Ecclesiastes 12:6...what does it mean to you????

Can't explain it...It is reported and I read it....the end..

I hate to mention this but............not being able to speak, terrible fear, are common denomiators (sp) and JS did say...when I came to myself again.....was he describing being out???? I don't know. He was a fraud but how would he have known these things before they were published...I am just the messenger, do not kill me.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2011 07:33PM by steve benson.

The NDE and the Silver Cord

Kevin Williams' research conclusions



The silver cord has been described as being smooth, very long, very bright, like an elastic cable made of light, about an inch wide, sparkling like a tinsel on a Christmas tree, and attached to one of several possible locations on the physical body. During the dying process, as the spirit body leaves the physical body and moves farther away it, the silver cord becomes thinner as it is stretched to its limit and becomes severed. When this occurs, the spirit body is released from being attached to the physical body. At this point, it becomes impossible for the spirit body to ever return to the physical body. For this reason, we can define "irreversible death" as that point when the silver cord becomes stretched to its limit and severed. This is the so-called "point of no return." This boundary point may also be accompanied by the appearance of a particular landmark representing a boundary such as a river, a wall, a fence, or a canyon. Once this barrier is crossed, the near-death experience becomes an irreversible death experience.

Many experiencers have felt the pull of the silver cord when it is stretched near its limit. They often describe the experience as being instantly retracted to their physical body - like stretching a rubber band to near its limit and then releasing one end of it.

This silver cord is our spirit body's "lifeline" to our physical body in the same way that our umbilical cord is our "lifeline" to our mother's body during the birth process.

During the death process, should the physical body be subjected to a violent death, such as in a severe car accident, the silver cord is severed before the impact preventing the pain that is experienced by the physical body from being felt by the spirit body.

The existence of the silver cord is even mentioned in the Bible:

"Remember him - before the silver cord is severed, or the golden bowl is broken; before the pitcher is shattered at the spring, or the wheel broken at the well, and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:6 - 7)


The Religious Significance of the Silver Cord and the Golden Bowl

From the notes of the Episcopal Daily Lectionaries Online website, comes this translation:

"The golden bowl suspended by the silver cord was a symbol of life; the snapping of the cord and the breaking of the bowl, a symbol of death. The pitcher ... the broken pulley: another pair of metaphors for life and its ending."


From the editorial pages of the Christadelphian Tidings website, comes this translation:

"Verse 6 appears to use two metaphors to speak of death. The first is of a silver chord and a golden bowl most likely the bowl was used as an oil light, suspended by a chord. Dying is compared to the breaking of this chord and the crashing of the bowl down to the ground, whereupon it shatters and its light is extinguished. Second, death is compared to a pitcher used to draw water at a well. Death is like the breaking of this pitcher and the pulley which was used to let it down. No more water can be drawn; death has conquered.


"It is interesting that both of these images, the symbols of water and light, are used elsewhere in the scriptures as metaphors for life. The consequence of this termination of life is the decaying process by which the dust returns to the Earth. The spirit, in a reversal of Genesis 2, "returns unto God who gave it." This is what death is all about: the shattering of all man's hope, and the cessation of everything that he was and stood for."


Near-Death Experiences and the Silver Cord



The following are insights concerning the silver cord from NDErs profiled on this website.

While preparing to undergo one of his otherworldly journeys, Edgar Cayce had lost consciousness and had a dream. Usually, he would travel through a tunnel toward the light. But in this instance, he met the Angel of Death and learned about the silver cord. The following is his experience described in his own words:

As I went out, I realized that I had contacted Death, as a personality, as an individual or as a being. Realizing this, I remarked to Death:




"You are not as ordinarily pictured - with a black mask or hood, or as a skeleton, or like Father Time with the sickle. Instead, you are fair, rose-cheeked, robust - and you have a pair of shears or scissors."




In fact, I had to look twice at the feet or limbs, or even at the body to see it take shape. The Angel of Death replied:



"Yes, Death is not what many seem to think. It's not the horrible thing which is often pictured. Just a change - just a visit. The shears or scissors are indeed the implements most representative of life and death to man. These indeed unite by dividing - and divide by uniting. The cord does not, as usually thought, extend from the center - but is broken from the head, the forehead - that soft portion we see pulsate in the infant.



"Hence we see old people, unbeknowing to themselves, gain strength from youth by kissing there; and youth gains wisdom by such kisses.



"Indeed the vibrations may be raised to such an extent as to rekindle or reconnect the cord, even as the Master did with the son of the widow of Nain. For he did not take him by the hand (which was bound to the body as was the custom of the day), but rather stroked him on the head - and the body took life of Life itself! So, you see, the silver cord may be broken - but the vibration ...'" (Edgar Cayce)



I saw a long silver cord coming out of my spirit body, right through the cheesecloth-like fabric I was wearing. The cord extended down and out in front of me, and as I turned around, I saw that the silver cord draped around and behind me, like an umbilical cord. I followed it through the two hallway walls and into my den, where I saw it attached to the back of the head of my physical body. The cord was about an inch wide and sparkled like Christmas tree tinsel! ... As soon as I saw that silver cord was attached to my physical body, my spirit was thrust into a dark tunnel. (Dr. Dianne Morrissey)

In Dr. PMH Atwater's book, Beyond the Light, the near-death account of Alice Morrison-Mays is given. Alice described her return to her physical body from a near-death experience. She remembers entering her physical body through the silver cord:

"Almost instantly I felt reentry into my body through the silver cord at the top of my head. There was something akin to a physical bump. As soon as I entered, I heard someone near me say, 'Oh, we've got her back.' I was told I had two pieces of placenta as large as grapefruits removed." (Alice Morrison-Mays)


It was literally so bright that I could not sustain the gaze so I turned away. At that moment I noticed a silver cord, attached around the navel area going down, down, down to a person I saw lying on my bed. It was me! I had a curious non-interest in it. (Joni Maggie)

When I had my first child I had the experience of being out of my body and hovering above it attached to a thick cord. (Mrs. Walters)

Several years ago I once experienced the silver cord when 'stepping out in trance'. Out of the body, at a distance of about 1m or 1,5m I turned around, face to the physical body. As usual in near-body distance I was without visual perception and in absolute darkness. Feeling a touch on my breast I reached out for it and felt something with smooth surface formed like a cone, diameter at the basis (breast) ca. 15 - 20cm, getting smaller to a diameter of about 5cm at a body-distance of about 30cm.

At this diameter (5cm) it transformed to a cord, leading in direction of the physical body. In all other OBEs of the type of "stepping-out-in-trance" I paid no attention to the silver cord, but at a certain distance (ca. 50m) I felt a pull. Then I was stopped as if tied and fixed at my backside. Instantly I was retracted to the physical body. This happened very often and reduced my expeditions to a short duration, frustrating me. (Alfred Ballabene)

Sylvan Muldoon's first conscious projection occurred when he was 12 years old. He awoke in the middle of the night to find himself conscious, but not knowing where he was, and apparently unable to move, a condition he later called astral catalepsy.

Gradually the sensation of floating took over, and then a rapid up-and-down vibration and a tremendous pressure in the back of his head. Out of this nightmare of sensations the boy's hearing gradually began to return and then his sight, by which he could see that he was floating in the room above his bed.

Some force took hold of him and pulled him from horizontal to vertical. He saw his double lying quietly asleep on the bed, and between the two of them stretched an elastic-like cable which joined the back of the head of his conscious self, to a spot between the eyes of the body in bed, six feet of so away.

Swaying and pulling against the cord, Muldoon tried to walk to another room to wake someone, but found that he passed right through the door, and through the bodies of other sleepers too, when he tried to shake or clutch them. Frightened, he roamed around the house for what seemed like fifteen minutes, and then slowly the pull of the cord increased and he found himself being pulled back to his body.

Everything went in reverse. He tipped back to horizontal, again became cataleptic, felt the same vibrations and then, with a jerk, dropped back into the body. He was awake and alive again. (Sylvan Muldoon)

The silver cord protects us in many ways. At the time of a violent death, like a severe auto accident, the silver cord is severed before impact so the person will feel no pain. That really brought a lot of comfort to me to know that my son did not feel pain at the time of his death. During the dying process, the cord becomes thinner to where it finally is severed. The soul is released. (Debbie Doe)

Susan Blackmore, a former parapsychologist with heavy skeptical leanings, is considered one of the world's leading authorities on OBEs and NDEs. She herself had a NDE while attending Oxford University during the early 1970s. By her own admission she "spent much of the time stoned, experimenting with different drugs."

During her first year at Oxford she had a NDE after several hours on the Ouija board while stoned on marijuana. The experience also occurred during a period of her life when sleep deprivation was common for her. She describes herself as having been in "a fairly peculiar state of mind" when she had the NDE.

During her NDE, Blackmore went down a tunnel of trees toward a light, floated on the ceiling and observed her body below, saw a silver cord connecting her floating astral body, floated out of the building around Oxford and then over England, and finally across the Atlantic to New York.

After hovering around New York, Blackmore floated back to her room in Oxford where she became very small and entered her body's toes. Then she grew very big, as big as a planet at first, and then she filled the solar system and finally she became as large as the universe.

Her experience with the silver cord is right out of traditional occult literature on astral projection. (Susan Blackmore)

In the book, An Unquiet Mind, Kay Redford Jamison, who suffers from bipolar disorder, describes a similar voyage as Blackmore. Jamison traveled to Jupiter while she was enjoying the manic phase of her mental illness. (Susan Blackmore)

One patient was 2 years old when he had a seizure and his heart stopped. His parents contacted Dr. Sam Parnia after the boy drew a picture of himself as if out of his body looking down at himself.

It was drawn like there was a balloon stuck to him. When they asked what the balloon was he said, "When you die you see a bright light and you are connected to a cord."



"He wasn't even three when had the experience," Parnia said. (Dr. Sam Parnia)


I was suddenly floating above my body, with a strange cord attaching me and my physical body. I had read about that and so I knew it was normal. I started to float around after practice, mostly around my basement. So I went upstairs to see if any one was there, and I found my sister in the kitchen, I touched her face and she looked straight at me.

I thought for a moment she had seen me. But she walked right through me and turned up the thermostat. That's when I realized my cord was gone! Not even a whist of it was left. So I thought about reconnecting with my body to go back but nothing happened. I knew for sure I was stuck. Gone. No one would know what happened to me!

I went back down to the basement to see what I looked like from the outside. There he sat. The most beautiful man I had ever seen. He motioned for me to come toward him and so I did. He told me to float just above my body and he would help me. I laid there and suddenly I felt as if I was being pulled back down into my body. Before I could thank him I woke up ... I knew I had met an angel. (Caroline Graham)

A boy, woke up and got out of bed during the night. Whilst walking along a hallway he became "aware that something was amiss." On turning around and looking back toward the way he had come he saw what appeared to be a thin cord of light leading from him back to his bedroom. Naturally concerned, he followed the cord back to his bedroom only to discover that he was still asleep in his bed. He had no recollection of how he returned to his physical body.

The above is a typical example of an out-of-body experience during sleep, which, happens to everyone. The one unusual aspect of this case is that the boy woke up whilst he was astral traveling and became alarmed. (Divine Inspirations' research)

A List of the Various Locations on the Physical Body Where the Silver Cord has been Seen to be Connected to

At the time of death, a dying person may notice their silver cord attached to one of these possible locations on the physical body:

(1) The Head (the back of head, the top of head, or the forehead)
People who saw their silver cord attached to the back of the head of their physical body: Dianne Morrissey

People who saw their silver cord attached to the top of the head of their physical body: Alice Morrison-Mays

People who saw their silver cord attached to the forehead of their physical body: Edgar Cayce, Sylvan Muldoon

(2) The Chest
People who saw their silver cord attached to the chest of their physical body: Alfred Ballabene


(3) The Abdomen
People who saw their silver cord attached to the abdomen of their physical body: Joni Maggi


(4) The Back
People who saw their silver cord attached to the back of their physical body: (More coming soon!)


Note: Although this is not a complete list, these are the main locations that I have come across in my research.


A List of the Various Locations on the Physical Body Where the Spirit Body Will Enter the Physical Body Upon Return

Many near-death and out-of-body experiencers have described leaving and entering their physical bodies at a particular location on their physical body. Not everyone leaves and enters their physical body at the same location. These are the main locations on the physical body that I have across in my research:

(1) The Top of the Head
People who left and/or returned to their body through the top of the head: Jayne Smith, Arthur Yensen, Pam Reynolds, MaryJane


(2) The Chest
People who left and/or returned to their body through their chest: Betty Eadie, Margaret Birkin, Michael


(3) The Abdomen
People who left and/or returned to their body through their abdomen: Donna Gotti, Lynn Russell


(4) The Feet
People who left and/or returned to their body through their feet: Susan Blackmore, Jack Foreman, Debbie Malec



The Correlation Between the Chakras, Leaving and Returning to the Body, the Silver Cord, and the Afterlife Reams

There appears to be a correlation between the following:

(1) The location of the head chakra, the heart chakra ... all the body chakras

(2) The location on the body where people leave and return to their body during a NDE or OBE

(3) The location on the body where people see their silver cord connected

(4) The location of a particular afterlife realm or dimension

Information about the NDE and Afterlife Realms will show how each chakra (endocrine gland) is spiritually and astrologically connected to a particular afterlife realm. It is our physical, mental and spiritual connection with afterlife realms.

"Birth in the physical is death in the spiritual. Death in the physical is the birth in the spiritual." - Edgar Cayce




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Copyright 2007 Near-Death Experiences & the Afterlife

Atheist God, I learned how to paste...I feel like I am out of Body...ha

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2011 07:22PM by steve benson.

Not being able to speak, terrible fear, seems to be the begining of OBE for most....I hate to say it but.....JS did mention....binding of the tongue, fear....and when it was supposely over....when I came to myself again.....how would he know to report these things when they were not yet published....I am not defending him,,,only wondering...trying to be objective.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2011 07:30PM by get her done.

You killed the messenger, I am going to get my meds and just read. Your doing a great job.....very objective...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2011 08:01PM by steve benson.

You are trying to tease me into responding again so you can whip me some more..I am asleep as I previously posted and this is my out of body spirt typing. Please don't sever my cord,whip me abuse me, but don't sever me.

The keys on your keyboard need to be pressed for you to post. Since your body is not doing this, would you mind explaining how you think your disembodied mind is typing? Does your mind control mechanics?

Look down and tell us if the keys and cursor move while your mind sends us a message. That's quite a trick. Maybe you are using your silver thread!

A silver thread like tinsel implies metallic sparkle. The molecules that cause that can be detected. What is this thread made of and how does it get hooked up to a physical body?

Maybe the psychologists can discuss if there is a fixation on fetal connectedness. Maybe the "souls" require a kite string because they are full of hot air.

(And yes, this comment is in jest.)

That they can't, or refuse to, see the obvious correlation between "spirit-eyed" Mormons and themselves is both baffling and hysterical.

Hell, we've even got believers in the woo-woo world actually suggested that Joseph Smith's First Vision was an "out-of-body experience."

Who might, then, have been directing that Wrestle in the Woods? Satan or some other God Force pitting himself against the Eternal Father and His Son Jesus Christ?

Unbelieeeeeeeeevable.



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2011 09:12PM by steve benson.

lol

I've been deliberating on this for a while now. While remaining skeptical and pouring over sources, I've came about an interesting piece of work.

OBE's (out of body experiences) are more than just conjecture as we can see from the following elegant experiment.

This was a SCIENTIFIC experiment performed by a physician in Massachusetts, and the results were published in the Journal of the American Society for Psychical Research (ASPR), and peer-reviewed by four other physicians. The man publishing this research was the HEAD of his research department at the time.

His name? Dr. Duncan McDougal. Heard of him Steve? Oh you, believe me, you will know his name. I smell a future Nobel prize. I mean, even though he's dead, and his work was done in early 1900s, it's still VERY reputable and pertinent to this discussion.

You can read all about his mind blowing science here;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_MacDougall_(doctor)

"I smell a future Nobel prize."

Dead people don't get Nobel prizes:

"From 1974, the Statutes of the Nobel Foundation stipulate that a Prize cannot be awarded posthumously, unless death has occurred after the announcement of the Nobel Prize."

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/shortfacts.html

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2011 10:32PM by steve benson.

I hope not. He was the laughable researcher who decided souls weigh 21 grams? Please tell me you meant another doctor. Your link led to a spelling question about your inquiry.

The reason you read about it in "Psychial Research" instead of Scientific American is because it was debunked. There are reasons the mass of a body changes after death.

Sigh.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2011 10:15PM by dagny.

. . . this guy, the all-wet wiki one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_MacDougall_(doctor)
_____


Can't people think rationally around here, or must they all be like "spiritually-eyed" Mormons? Geezus:

http://rationallyspeaking.blogspot.com/2007/03/does-soul-weigh-21-grams.html



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2011 10:40PM by steve benson.

Dude, the soul totally weighs 21 grams. mkay?

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Frecords.viu.ca%2Fwww%2Fipp%2Fpdf%2FNDE.pdf&rct=j&q=waiting%20for%20the%20other%20shoe%20to%20drop%20maria&ei=m7E4Trr6GouWtwe9hNSQAw&usg=AFQjCNEsVtrCEbdjbhloSuqN9u3-wJtG7w&cad=rja

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/keith_augustine/HNDEs.html#pam (This one will link you,as well, to many more scientific debunkings of the allegedly "immortal" view of so-called "NDEs" and "OBEs").
_____


Speaking of conjecture, got empirical proof for the actual existence of Greek gods?



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2011 10:45PM by steve benson.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2011 10:56PM by steve benson.

It was a joke. Sigh. really? Why would any person think that dead people can win nobel prizes, let a lone a dude who claims to have weighed the soul at 21 grams? I am not an OBE supporter.