In another thread, an obviously irritated poster emphatically and disdainfully declares that Joseph Smith didn't kill anyone at Carthage--and maybe didn't even shoot anyone, either:

“I think there is very little evidence that he [Joseph Smith] killed anyone personally.

“That c--p about him killing people at Carthage jail comes only from a Mormon source trying to paint him as a hero. I do think the fact that he had a gun and that he tried to shoot his way out is credible (although I am not positive it happened, either), but if he killed two people where are the bodies? Where were the funerals? No one was reported as missing? No bodies at the scene? Sounds like if he did manage to hit anyone, they survived.”

(“I think there is very little evidence that he killed anyone personally,” posted by “Steve,” on “Recovery from Mormonism” bulletin board, 30 July 2011, 10:54 p.m.)


Hold yer fire there, Steve. Just because you and I happen to share the same first name doesn't mean we necessarily harbor similar views on this murderous matter.

Below are some arguments (sourced from a variety of research-rich books in my personal library), concerning reports of who Joseph Smith may have shot and/or killed at Carthage, and how he may have done it.
_____


--Versions of Joseph Smith's Assassination at Carthage, Where He Reportedly Only Wounded Some of His Attackers

*Mormon Author Donna Hill, in “Joseph Smith, the First Mormon”:

“Balls were fired into the room, lodging in the walls and ceiling. Swearing and shouting, more men crowded up the stairway and pushed against the door. When Hyrum stood back to aim his pistol, a shot through the door struck the left side of his nose and he fell moaning, 'I am a dead man.'

“Joseph leaned over his brother and cried, 'Oh, dear brother Hyrum!' Seeing that he was dead, Joseph Smith jumped up, threw open the door and emptied his six-shooter into the passageway. The gun missed fire once or twice but reports had it that Joseph wounded three or four men and that he slipped his fist through the door and punched a young man from Warsaw in the neck.

“An account written for the 'Atlantic Monthly' some years later comment upon Joseph's courage, saying that he stood by the jamb of the door and fired four shots, bring his man down every time. According to that report, he shot an Irishman named Wills in the arm; a southerner from the Mississippi bottom named Gallagher (spelled Gallaher on the indictment) in the face; a gawky youth from Bear Creek named Voorhees (spelled Voras on the indictment) in the shoulder; and another man whom the reporter did not care to name because he was six feet two in moccasins (identified as Allen on the indictment). It was, said that account, a 'handsome fight.'”

(Donna Hill, “Joseph Smith, the First Mormon: The Definitive Story of a Complex and Charismatic Man and the People Who Knew Him,” Chapter 15, “Martyrdom” [Garden City, New York: Doubleday & Company, Inc., 1977], p. 416)


*Excommunicated Mormon Author Fawn Brodie, in “No Man Knows My History”:

“Joseph had a six-shooter and Hyrum a single-barrel pistol, which had been smuggled in by friends the previous day. The other two men [Willard Richards and John Taylor] had nothing to defend themselves with save two hickory canes. All four sprang against the door but retreated when the first ball penetrated the thick panel.

“As the door was forced open, . . . Hyrum was caught by fire from one of the half-dozen muzzles pointing evilly toward the doorway. . . .

“Joseph now discharged all six barrels down the passageway. Three of them missed fire but the other three found marks. One of the wounded rushed back down the stairs, his arm a mass of blood and mangled flesh. 'Are you badly hurt?' someone shouted.

“'Yes, my arm is all shot to pieces by Old Joe,' he screamed, 'but I don't care; I've got revenge; I shot Hyrum!' . . ,

“Most of the balls coming in through the window were striking harmlessly against the ceiling, while the men in the hallway who had not been hit or frightened back by Joseph's shooting were trying to fix their aim upon him.

“When his pistol was empty, Joseph flung it on the floor crying, 'There, defend yourselves as well as you can,' and sprang to the window.”

(Fawn Brodie, “No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith, the Mormon Prophet,” 2nd ed., Chapter XXVII, “Carthage” [New York, New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1983], p. 393)


*Excommunicated Mormon Author D. Michael Quinn, in “The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power”:

“. . . Three prisoners were trying to secure the upper room's door with bare hands and wooden canes against a cursing mob shooting randomly inside. Joseph Smith fired back with a six-shooter at the attackers in the doorway, wounding three of them.”

(D, Michael Quinn, “The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power” [Salt Lake City, Utah: Signature Books, 1994], p. 141)


*Non-Mormon Author Richard Abanes, in “One Nation Under Gods: A History of the Mormon Church”:

“[Joseph Smith], who had been smuggled a six-shooter, fired all of his rounds at the door, severely wounding the man who had just killed his brother. . . .

“. . . Joseph retreated, throwing his gun at the assailants and lunging for the second-story window in a vain attempt to escape.”

(Richard Abanes, “One Nation Under Gods: A History of the Mormon Church” [New York, New York: Four Walls Eight Windows, 2002], pp. 199, 201)


*Non-Mormon Author Jon Krakauer, in “Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of a Violent Faith”:

“ . . . [F]riendly visitors were given unrestricted access to the Smith brothers [in Carthage Jail]. By this means, two guns were smuggled in to theSmith brothers--a six-shooter pepperbox revolver and a single-shot pistol. . . .

“The [Warsaw Dragoons] swarmed upstairs and tried to force their way into the bedroom where the prisoners were quartered. Joseph and Hyrum brandished their smuggled weapons while Taylor and Richards each grabbed a walking stick, positioned themselves on either side of the doorway and began whacking furiously at the mob's muskets as the barrels were poked through the partially-opened door.

“Two bullets ripped through the door panel; the second one smashed into Hyrum's neck, severing his spinal cord, and he dropped to the floor dead, where four more balls immediately struck his body. Joseph responded by reaching around the doorjamb and blindly firing all six rounds of his revolver, wounding at least one of the Warsaw Dragoons.”

(Jon Krakauer, “Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of a Violent Faith,” Chapter Twelve, “Carthage” [New York, New York: Doubleday, a Division of Random House, 2003], pp. 131-32)
_____


--Versions of Joseph Smith's Assassination at Carthage, Where Some of Those Whom He Reportedly Shot Died as a Result

*Mormon Authors Dallin H. Oaks (eventual Mormon Church Apostle) and Marvin S . Hill (Associate Professor of History, Brigham Young University), in "Carthage Conspiracy: The Trial of the Accused Assasins of Joseph Smith":

“Upon hearing the guns firing below, Joseph and Hyrum seized their pistols and ran to the door to hold it shut against the attackers. Some of the mob fired shots through the wooden door, hitting Hyrum in the face. . . .

"Joseph, seeing his fallen brother at his feet, stepped up beside the door and began firing his pistol at the men in the hallway. After attempting to fire all six barrels (three misfired) he ran to the window . . . as bullets struck him from behind. . . . An examination of his body showed that he had been hit four times, once in the right collar bone, once in the breast and twice in the back. . . .

“Very little is known about four of the men who were indicted [in Joseph Smith's death]. . . . Wills, Voras and Gallaher were probably named in the indictment because of their wounds, which testimony showed were received at the jail, [and] were irrefutable evidence that they had participated in the mob. . . . A contemporary witness reported these three as saying that they were the first men at the jail, that one of them shot through the door killing Hyrum, that Joseph wounded all three with his pistol and that Gallaher shot Joseph as he ran to the window. According to Hay, Wills--whom the Mormon prophet had shot in the arm--was an Irishman who joined the mob from 'his congenital love of a brawl.' Gallaher was a young man from Mississippi who was shot in the face. Hay described Voras (Voorhees} as a 'half-grown hobbledehoy from Bear Creek' whom Joseph shot in the shoulder. . . .

“ . . . William M. Daniels, the prosecution's key witness before the grand jury [had] [t]wo weeks before the trial . . . published a 24-page booklet containing 'the names and proceedings of the principal murderers of Joseph and Hyrum Smith. . . .

“The Daniels booklet . . . adds one unfamiliar detail [about what took place as the mob ran up the stairway and fired thorough the wooden door into the prisoners' chamber]: that the pistol Joseph fired at the mob 'wounded three of them--two mortally.' . . .

“Daniels [in court testimony] told . . . how . . .. [h]e saw three wounded men after the shooting. Daniels was acquainted with one of them, a man named Wills, whose 'arm was shot all to pieces.' This man said in Daniels' presence that 'Joe Smith shot him, that he was the first [attacker] shot through the door.' A man named Voras had blood on his shoulder but appeared to be only slightly wounded. A third man was wounded in the face. When the call came to go around to the window, the man who was wounded in the shoulder ran around that side of the jail. There, Daniels said, 'I saw him shoot Smith,' holding the gun in both hands. Daniels said he had not seen any of the wounded men since that day at the jail.” . . .

“Immediately following Daniels' testimony about the wounds received by the three men, [counsel for the accused murderers of Joseph Smith] asked about the truthfulness of the pamphlet's statement that Joseph Smith had mortally wounded two of his assailants. Daniels replied: 'I told you I did not write that book--[Lyman O.] Littlefield wrote it.'”

(Dallin Oaks and Marvin S. Hill, “Carthage Conspiracy: The Trial of the Accused Assassins of Joseph Smith,” Chapter 2, 'Murder . . . by a Respectable Set of Men;” Chapter 4, “Elections and Indictments;” Chapter 6, “The Courtroom and the Contestants;” and Chapter 8, “Quiet Perjury to Screen a Murder” [Urbana, Chicago, London: University of Illinois Press, 1976], pp. 21, 52-53, 87, 131-32)


*Excommunicated Mormon Authors Jerald and Sandra Tanner, in “The Changing World of Mormonism” and in “Mormonism: Shadow or Reality?”:

“Most Mormons believe that Joseph Smith died without putting up a struggle but the actual truth is that he died in a gunfight. In the 'History of the Church,' the following account is given concerning Joseph Smith's death:

“'Immediately there was a little rustling at the outer door of the jail and a cry of surrender, and also a discharge of three or four firearms followed instantly. . . . Joseph sprang to his coat for his six-shooter, Hyrum for his single barrel. . . .

“'When Hyrum fell, Joseph exclaimed, 'Oh dear, brother Hyrum!' and opening the door a few inches he discharged his six-shooter in the stairway . . . two or three barrels of which missed fire.

“'Joseph, seeing there was no safety in the room and no doubt thinking that it would save the lives of his brethren in the room if he could get out, turned calmly from the door, dropped his pistol on the floor and sprang into the window . . . and he fell outward into the hands of his murderers . . . .' ('History of the Church,' Vol. 6, pp. 617-18)

“In the introduction to Volume 6 of the 'History of the Church,' p. xli, Joseph Smith is praised for his part in the gunfight:

“'. . . [T]he Prophet turned from the prostrate form of his murdered brother to face-death dealing guns and bravely returned the fire of his assailants, 'bringing his man down every time' and compelling even John Hay, who but reluctantly accords the Prophet any quality of virtue, to confess that he “made a handsome fight.” . . .'

“John Taylor, who became the third president of the [Mormon] Church, testified concerning the death of Joseph Smith:

“'He [Joseph Smith], however, instantly arose and with a firm quick step and a determined expression of countenance, approached the door and pulling the six-shooter left by Brother Wheelock from his pocket, opened the door slightly and snapped the pistol six successive times; only three of the barrels, however, were discharged. I afterwards understood that two or three were wounded by these discharges, two of whom, I am informed, died.' ('History of the Church,' Vol. 7, pp. 102-03)

“From the preceding information it can be seen that the death of Joseph Smith can in no way be compared to the death of Jesus. Jesus did go like a 'lamb to the slaughter' but Joseph Smith died like a raging lion.”

(Jerald and Sandra Tanner, “The Changing World of Mormonism: A Behind-the-Scenes Look at Changes in Mormon Doctrine and Practice” [Chicago, Illinois: Moody Press, 1980-81], pp. 465-66)


“It is claimed that before Joseph Smith was murdered in the Carthage jail he made this statement: 'I am going like a lamb to the slaughter; . . . ' ('Doctrine and Covenants' 135: 4). . . .

“John Taylor, who became the third president of the Mormon Church, made these statements concerning the death of Joseph Smith:

“'Elder Cyrus B . Wheelock came to see us and when he was ab out leaving drew a small pistol--a six-shooter--from his pocket, remarking at the same time, 'Would any of you like to have this?' Brother Joseph immediately replied, “Yes, give it to me,” whereupon he took the pistol and put it in his pantaloons pocket. . . . I was sitting at one of the front windows of the jail when I saw a number of men, with painted faces, coming around the corner of the jail and aiming towards the stairs. . . .

“'I shall never forget the deep feeling of sympathy and regard manifested in the countenance of Brother Joseph as he drew nigh to Hyrum and, leaning over him, exclaimed, “Oh! My poor, dear brother Hyrum!” He, however, instantly arose and with a firm, quick step and a determined expression on his countenance, approached the door and pulling the six-shooter left by Brother Wheelock from his pocket, opened the door slightly and snapped the pistol six successive times; only three of the barrels, however, were discharged. I afterwards understood that two or three were wounded by these discharges. Two of whom, I am informed, died.' ('History of the Church,' Vol. 7, pp. 100, 102-03)”

(Jerald and Sandra Tanner, “Mormonism: Shadow or Reality?,” 5th ed., Chapter 19, “Joseph Smith: Like a Lamb?” (Salt Lake City, Utah: Utah Lighthouse Ministry, 1987), p. 259)
_____


--Versions of Joseph Smith's Assassination at Carthage Jail, Where the Ultimate Fate (Death or Survival) of Those Reportedly Shot by Joseph Smith Is Not Mentioned

*Non-Mormon Author Ernest H. Taves, in “Trouble Enough: Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon”:

“John Fullmer smuggled a single-barrel pistol into the jail. Cyrus Wheelock brought in a six-shooter in a raincoat pocket. . . .

“ . . . [S]ome of the mob stormed the stairway, pushed against the door and began firing. Others below were firing through the windows.

“The men inside sprang to their weapons: Joseph to the six-shooter, Hyrum to the pistol. A shot came through the door and struck Hyrum near the nose. At the same moment another ball came through the window and struck Hyrum in the back. . . . Joseph emptied the six-shooter down the stairs; some shots misfired, some connected. Balls were whistling through the air all over the room. . . .

“Joseph flung the six-shooter to the floor and tried to get through the window. He was struck twice from the door, once from below. “

(Ernest H. Taves, “Trouble Enough: Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon,” Chapter 21, “Assassination” [Buffalo, New York: Prometheus Books, 1984], p. 213)
_____


--Conclusion: Did Joseph Smith Shoot and/or Kill Any of His Attackers at Carthage? Give It Your Best Shot

I don't think the case has been conclusively made either way as to whether Joseph Smith actually killed anyone he shot at Carthage. (Please note that I said "anyone he shot at Carthage." We'll get to that point in a moment).

In the meantime, we do have an eventual Mormon apostle, Dallin H. Oaks, along with two noteworthy excommunicated Mormon authors, Jerald and Sandra Tanner, putting up evidence per the argument that Joseph Smith killed members of the Carthage mob.

Oaks cites a witness' claim (examined during the court trial of Joseph Smith's eventually-exonerated assassins) that Joseph Smith had, in fact, mortally wounded some of his Carthage attackers. (That said, Oaks does not clearly indicate whether he views this claim to be true, although he appears inclined toward doubt).

On the other hand, noted ex-Mormon critics Jerald and Sandra Tanner, quoting the view of third president of the Mormon Church John Taylor, argue that Joseph Smith most likely did shoot back at and kill some of his Carthage attackers.

As noted above, I think the jury is perhaps still out on that question.

However, based on the available evidence, it seems beyond reasonable doubt that Joseph Smith did indeed shoot some of his jailhouse assailants with a gun that had been smuggled into him by a sympathizer. The indictments read out against members of the mob who murdered Joseph Smith noted that those on trial for Smith's murder who were wounded were wounded by gunfire. It was, as Oaks observes, the bullet wounds which they received that likely served as compelling physical proof directly tying them to the mob responsible for murdering Joseph Smith. The rounds that inflicted their injuries would have had to have come from Joseph Smith's six-shot revolver since the only other armed cellmate with him at the time of his death--his brother Hyrum--was shot and killed before he (Hyrum) could get off a round from his single-barrel weapon.

That only leaves Joseph Smith who could have wounded the men in question (and--who knows?--maybe killed some, too).



Edited 24 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2011 07:39PM by steve benson.

I would hope he did.

Unfortunately Joseph and Hyrum Smith being killed by a mob made them martyrs. Followers worship martyrs. If Joseph would have gone to trial I believe his world would have started to unravel.

It was clear by the evidence Joseph Smith abused his authority and violently abused the first amendment rights of the citizens of the city he was mayor of. I believe the public trial of Joseph Smith would have opened a pandoras box of fraud and abuses for all to see.

With a publicly humiliated and exposed Joseph Smith, there would be no martyrs to shore up the next phase of Mormonism. It would have faded with Joseph Smith's reputation.

The best thing that ever happened for Mormonism was the attack and martyrdom of Joseph and Hyrum Smith.

exactly!

"“Joseph now discharged all six barrels down the passageway. Three of them missed fire but the other three found marks. One of the wounded rushed back down the stairs, his arm a mass of blood and mangled flesh. 'Are you badly hurt?' someone shouted."

I see some parralells with this and the Jeff's trial. Based on what I've read...QUOTED from Jeff's in his trial, I have no doubt that Jeff's would do the same if given the chance.

So, JS/HS trying to shoot their way out of jail...does this -change- the whole martyr aspect of JS's gloried prophet-dom?...because I don't see how someone can be a martyr when they are actively trying to escape justice.

Also, with Jeff's recent comments in court and MANY comments attributed to Brigham Young...WHY if someone is a "prophet" do they feel the need to threaten LARGE groups of people??

nonmo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> So, JS/HS trying to shoot their way out of
> jail...does this -change- the whole martyr aspect
> of JS's gloried prophet-dom?...because I don't see
> how someone can be a martyr when they are actively
> trying to escape justice.

actually they were being attacked by a lynch mob.
They were not actively trying to escape the jail, just trying to avoid being lynched.

have you ever seen one of those films where one of the guys gets killed by the bad guy, but you don't really care one way or the other, because the character was such a butt-head.... that's the way I feel about JS's "martydom"

"actually they were being attacked by a lynch mob.
They were not actively trying to escape the jail, just trying to avoid being lynched."

If they really were a lynch mob, then probably noone of them would have survived it. The fact that a couple of them survived, demonstrates that they probably were not.

. . . did this lynch mob run around the outside of the jail to aim their guns directly and specifically up at Joseph Smith, who was trying to escape through a second-story window?

It is obvious that the Warsaw miliatianmen were acting as a mass of blood-lusting lynchers deadset on gunning, in particular, for Joseph and Hyrum Smith. The murderers wanted those two "lynched" by name; in other words, murdered outside the laws of due process.

Once they had killed their primary quarry--the Smith brothers-- it wasn't necessary for this lynch mob to mop up by making sure Richards and Taylor were dead, as well. After all, they had accomplished the lynching they really wanted to:

Joseph, murdered.

Hyrum, likewise.

The two top dogs of the Mormon Church dead.

Mission accomplished.

Good job, boys. Let's call it a day.



Edited 12 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2011 12:02AM by steve benson.

He didn't change the canes into serpents or put his arm to the square to cast beelzebub from them. Where was Moroni commanding a legion of angels when the lard's anointed needed him?

Since some sources claim to have names:

“An account written for the 'Atlantic Monthly' .....According to that report, he shot an Irishman named Wills in the arm; a southerner from the Mississippi bottom named Gallagher (spelled Gallaher on the indictment) in the face; a gawky youth from Bear Creek named Voorhees (spelled Voras on the indictment) in the shoulder; and another man whom the reporter did not care to name because he was six feet two in moccasins (identified as Allen on the indictment).”

What happened from the indictment, and why don't they have further information on who these men were?

Death records were not routinely kept at the county level until decades later, but it seems to me some of them should not have been that difficult to find, just time consuming.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2011 11:13PM by atheist&happy:-).

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2011 11:57PM by steve benson.

If anyone had died from JS, whether indicted or not, wouldn't their deaths have been mentioned somewhere?

As noted in the OP, the matter of the alleged killings by Smith of members of the attacking mob was brought up during trial during cross-examination of witness Daniels but appears not to have been an issue that was delved into significantly or resolved one way or the other during the legal proceedings.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2011 12:01AM by steve benson.

Daniels says his booklet was written by Lyman O. Littlefield. They wasted no time manufacturing faith promoting rumors! I cannot believe I believed all this once.

An Eyewitness Account of the Murders of Joseph and Hyrum Smith
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/carthage/danielsaccount.html

“The following account was first published in the Nauvoo Neighbor in its May 7 and May 14, 1845 issues.   William Daniels was a key prosecution witness and the publication of his account a few weeks before Carthage Conspiracy trial was a great benefit to the defense, who used it extensively to impeach Daniels during cross-examination.  The account below contains several embellishments or fantasies that are contradicted by other witnesses.  (See highlighted paragraphs below.)  For example, Daniels has Joseph Smith surviving his fall from the second story jail and then being shot by four men under the orders of Levi Williams.  After the murder of Smith, Daniels describes a scene in which a "ruffian" draws a bowie knife and is ready to sever the head of Smith when suddenly a pillar of light "bursts from the heavens upon the bloody scene" and frightens the killers away.  The account of Daniels was republished in The Martyrs: Joseph and Hyrum Smith (Lyman Omar Littlefield, editor, in 1882).“

I did not study my way out, so have not read much history, but thought this was interesting:

A Study of New Harmony Church, Colonel Levi Williams, the Militia Companies Under His Command, and the Expulsion of the Mormons from Hancock County, Illinois
http://www.carthage.lib.il.us/community/churches/primbap/MormonTrouble.html

"This study, in 2007, was conducted solely for the sake of trying to understand what if any role the members or former members of the Primitive Baptist Church, may have played in the Mormon conflict."

“Concluding Remarks

The ministry and membership of the Primitive Baptist Church in Hancock County did not endorse the violence in Carthage in June 1844. Individual members were allowed freedom of choice in civil or political matters. The churches believed they should grant others the same freedom of religious belief and practice as they desired for themselves.

The citizens of Hancock County who sought to protect their own rights, in that day, are still being portrayed, by the Mormons, in their plays, pageants, movies, historic site guided tours, etc., as ruffians, mobsters, villains, ungodly thugs, and murderers. At the same time they portray their own people who killed Anti-Mormons as heroes: for example, Orrin Rockwell, who shot and killed Carthage Grey Jail Guard Franklin Worrell in cold blood, and was sent by Joseph Smith to assassinate former Governor Lilburn Boggs of Missouri. The old pioneer citizens of Hancock County were here before the Mormons came, and they refused to abandon all they had worked for, and leave their homes.”

I would love to see the real history of JS portrayed one day in all its reprehensible truth.

My understanding is that the three left the area, and were not present for the trial. Allen did not leave and was not indicted, because he supposedly had a goood alibi.

Thomas Gregg, who was in the area at the time, and who was a partner of Thomas Sharp,indicated that some of the men went with the intent of taking Joseph and probably Hiram to Missouri to stand trial for charges there. Thomas Sharp had published a number of depositions from Missouri which firmly implicated Joseph and his top people for a number of murders. I think this is the reason why Gov. Ford backed off at the last minute.

It was, as Rubicon said, an event which negatively influenced American history. If it hadn't happened, and there had been a legal trial, maybe we wouldn't be facing the problems we face today.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2011 11:39PM by me.

Yeah, right:

"Parley P. Pratt also has written:

'A man named Townsend, living in Iowa, near Fort Madison, was one of the mob who assaulted and forced in the jail door. The pistol discharged by Joseph Smith wounded him in the arm, near the shoulder, and it continued to rot without healing until it was taken off and even then it would not heal.

'About six months after he was shot Mrs. Lawn saw his arm and dressed it. He was then gradually rotting and dying with the wound. He stayed over night with Mrs. Lawn’s father, and groaned through the night without sleeping. He asked the old gentleman what he thought of Joseph Smith being a Prophet? He replied that he did not know. “Well,” said Townsend, “I know he was a Prophet of God! And, oh, that I had stayed at home and minded my own business, and then I would not have lost my life and been tormented with a guilty conscience, and with this dreadful wound, which none can heal!” He died two or three months afterwards, having literally rotted alive!' (Parley P. Pratt, "Autobigoraphy of Parley P. Pratt" [Salt Lake City, Utah: Deseret Book, 1938, 1985], p. 391]. . . .

"Most accounts seem to agree that three mob members were wounded by Joseph’s gunfire: John Wills, an Irishman who had joined the mob from 'his congenital love of a brawl,' was apparently shot in the arm by the prophet ('Comprehensive History of the Church,' Vo. 2, p. 285 n.19); William Voras, a 'half grown, hobbledehoy from Bear Creek,' was shot in the shoulder by Joseph (ibid.); and William Gallaher, a 'southerner from the Mississippi Bottom' who supposedly was shot in the face. (ibid., see also Oaks and Hill, p. 52).

"A Mr. John Hay claimed that a fourth man 'whose name I will not mention, as he is prepared to prove an alibi, and besides stands six feet two in his moccasins’ was also wounded ('Comprehensive History of the Church,' Vol. 2, p. n. 19). This fourth man, identified as a Mr. Allen, could not have been wounded by Smith, since he only fired three rounds.

"Nevertheless, Allen, as well as Wills, Voras and Gallaher, were all indicted for the murder of Joseph and Hyrum. Wills, Voras and Gallaher 'were probably named in the indictment because of their wounds, which testimony showed were received at the jail, were irrefutable evidence that they had participated in the mob.' (Oaks and Hill, p. 52.)

"According to one source, the 'citizens of Green Plains were said to have given Gallaher and Voras new suits of clothes for their parts in the killing.' (ibid., p. 53.) None of these four assailants were ever arrested or appeared for trial, and one report claimed that at least three of these men had left the state. (ibid., p. 79.)

"Although it is possible that one or more of these men died as a result of the wounds they received during their mob attack, there is no evidence to suggest that such is the case, other than second or third hand reports which most scholars have dismissed as folklore."

--Michael R. Ash

http://www.mormonfortress.com/gun2.html



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2011 11:56PM by steve benson.

So this book " Fate of the Persecutors of Joesph Smith" is
also fiction?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Fate-Persecutors-Prophet-Joseph-Smith-LDS-Mormon-/370516880122

--Introduction: Ezra Taft Benson on the Horrible Fate That Reportedly Befell Assassins of Joseph and Hyrum Smith

During the Benson family reunion in the summer of 1979, our faithful clan took a reverent pilgrimage to the murder site of Joseph and Hyrum Smith at the Carthage, Illinois, jail.

During our visit to this hallowed place in Mormondum, I witnessed my grandfather’s serious and skeptical reaction to tales describing the gruesome final chapters in the allegedly haunted lives of many of the members of the mob who participated in the murder of the Smith boys in June of 1844.

To my surprise, Ezra Taft Benson thought it was all a buncha bunk.
_____


--Touring Carthage Jail and Shuffling Across Hyrum's Blood

Led by my grandfather, we managed to squeeze our sizeable Benson caravan into the small, brick jailhouse.

Our group was led up the narrow staircase from the first floor to the second-story jail cell (actually a bedroom) where Joseph and Hyrum bought the farm by a small, chatty tour guide—a man who stuck close to my grandfather’s side and pointed him through the exhibits with a sober sense of earnestness.

At the top of the stairs, we entered the cramped room. I had heard that there were still blood stains from the Smiths somewhere on the floor and asked the guide where they were located.

Come to find out, the guide informed us that we were literally standing on top of them. He said that a blood stain was partially covered by a rug spread over the floorboards but was still visible if we looked carefully.

Peering down at my feet, I noticed a large, irregular, faded spot, outlined by a darker outer ring encased in the wood grain of the planks.

The guide said that this was Hyrum’s blood, spilled when he was shot in the face and fell to the floor, exclaiming, "I am a dead man."

The guide then turned to my grandfather and informed him that the Church had removed a sheet of plexiglass that had previously been used to cover the blood stain because, he said, the Church did not want to encourage its members to “worship” the blood of the prophets.

The guide said that unless visitors to Carthage Jail specifically asked about the location of the bloodstains, the guides did not point it out and even allowed people to unknowingly walk on it.

My grandfather nodded somberly.
_____


--Drum Roll, Please: The Reported Fate of the Persecutors of the Prophet Joseph Smith

On the way down the stairs from our visit to the hallowed upper room where Joseph Smith had tried to save his own skin by jumping out a window while yelling a Masonic cry for help to Lodge members in the mob below, the guide began to solemnly speak to my grandfather about stories of ominous, horrible plagues supposedly visited by a wrathful God upon members of the murderous band who had killed the Lord’s chosen prophets.

By way of background, one web-wacko enthusiast of these post-martyrdom killer karma stories likened the fate of the doomed Carthage mob to that of plundering excavators who had violated the sanctity of the ancient tombs of the Pharaohs in search of treasure:

"The Pharaohs of Ancient Egypt were said to have mystic powers that surrounded them after death. When King Tut's tomb was discovered in the early 1900's, there was a curse that surrounded the tomb and brought death unto all who entered the tomb.

"So it was with Joseph Smith. A curse followed members of the mob that murdered Smith and his brother Hyrum.

". . . [M]any witnesses . . . swear that what they saw and heard is true concerning the sufferings of the mobocrats that participated in the murder of Smith and his brother Hyrum."
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Gruesome accounts of mob members supposedly becoming marked men by a God who was a-gunnin' for 'em eventually appeared in a sensational book, compiled by N. B. Lundwall, entitled, The "Fate of the Persecutors of the Prophet Joseph Smith" [Salt Lake City, Utah: Bookcraft Publishers, 1952, 365 pp].

According to the claims in the book by a devout Mormon who supposedly encountered a doomed mob member who had participated in the killings of Joseph and Hyrum Smith, the murderer was visited with horrific physical afflictions:

"I noticed that the lower part of one ear was gone, a part of the left side of his nose had rotted away, and there were other repulsive sores on his face. He showed me his hands. There was very little solid flesh on them. I expressed my sympathy for him and he said his feet were worse than his hands. I asked him what had caused all this trouble and he replied: 'I don't know unless it was a curse God had placed on me.' He said some men had told him that was it, because he was with the men who killed Joe Smith, the Mormon Prophet. 'I guess that was the main reason I drifted out here; I wanted to know how the Mormons made out without Joe Smith to lead them'"

(Lundwall, "The Fate of the Persecutors of the Prophet Joseph Smith," pp. 297-98).
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Another witness to the heavenly plagues that were said to have befallen Joseph and Hyrum Smith’s assassins described the physical torture dished out upon another mob member:

"About the year 1892, when I was eighteen years of age . . . an old man by the name of Brooks moved into[our] neighborhood . . . The old man used to come to my father's home, sit on the porch and talk to my father . . . [about] Joseph Smith the Prophet. On one particular evening after my father had talked about Joseph Smith, the old man . . . said: ‘ . . . I saw the last bullet shot onto the old boy.' After Mr. Brooks had gone to his cabin, my father said: 'No wonder he is a miserable old soul. If he saw the last bullet shot into Joseph Smith, he was in that mob. If he was in that mob, it has been prophesied that he will suffer all kinds of torment, his limbs shall rot off of his body and he will not have the courage to take his own life.'

". . . [A]fter this conversation I took particular notice of the old man and how he suffered. The old man had a belt which he wore around his waist which the son would take off, then beat the old man with it just to hear him scream and when beating him, the son would laugh and profane and seemed to enjoy it. All of this I saw.

"The old man was crippled and could walk with only the aid of two sticks---one in each hand and without aid of these he was totally helpless and unable to walk. The cause of this crippled condition was unknown to me. The son would drive the old man up the coal mine dump about three or four hundred yards from their cabin like he would drive cattle and fill sacks with coal, tie the sacks on the old man's back and drive him back to the cabin. The old man would beg his son not to fill the sacks too full of coal. If he would not go fast enough the son would whip him with his belt which he had taken from the father before going for the coal.

"They . . . then moved to Coalville . . . While living here his toes rotted off his feet. Later, a Dr. Cannon . . . who owned a ranch in Weber canyon . . . made arrangements with this old man and his son to start a chicken ranch on Dr. Cannon's premises, on to which the father and son moved. . . . Dr. Cannon made inquiry concerning the disappearance of the chickens on the farm and the old man replied that 'The skunks had eaten them up.' To which Dr. Cannon replied: 'You are the biggest skunk.'

"The son would often leave his father for three or four days and sometimes a week without food. I was up to my brother-in-law's ranch one fall, in November, when an eight inch snow fell, the weather clearing up in the afternoon, and dropping to zero weather by night. My brother-in-law and I took over an extra quilt and some supper to the old man and also chopped wood which we piled close to the stove so that he could handily keep the fire going during the night without getting out of bed.
After returning home later in the night, I heard him screaming. I awoke my brother-in-law and he said: 'Don't take notice of him; he always screams like that.' When we got up the next morning, we looked towards his cabin and saw that the house was gone. We immediately went to where his cabin had been and found it had burned to the ground during the night. All the old man's clothes had burned off of him and he was burned all over his body from his feet to the top of his head. He was alive and lay curled up in ashes of the burned cabin, trying to keep warm.

"We secured some quilts and with a team and sleigh we took him to Peoa where we found the son. The people of Peoa took up a collection which amounted to five dollars, gave it to the son and told him to go to Park City for the particular medicine he was directed to buy. With the money the son bought liquor and became drunk and did not return for four days. The old man died on the fourth day after he was burned, before his son returned . . . The son was ordered out of the county and he left immediately for parts unknown.

(ibid., pp. 292-93).
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Finally, another devout Mormon laid out--in stark-and-hark detail--the supposed horrible fate prepared for yet another hapless prophet-murdering mob member:

"One man, a 'Jack Reed,' an old man who was respected in the valley . . . said that he was a member of the mob who martyred the prophet. He was about fifteen years old at the time. He said he took his gun and marched proudly to Carthage and took part in the killing of the two prophets . . .

"About the last of September I heard that Jack Reed was very sick of a strange ailment. He was taken ill in a few days after having made the statement that he took part in the affair at Carthage---but no one had told me of his sickness until I heard it from one of my Indian friends who said he had worms in his flesh. I determined to see him if I could and try to get him to verify the statement he had made . . .

"The man had no family . . . . I asked . . . if . . . Mrs. Whitmore and myself [would be allowed] to visit Mr. Reed. [I was told] that Mr. Reed was a sight that no white woman could be allowed to look upon.

"He was literally eaten alive by worms. His eyeballs had fallen out, the flesh on his cheeks and neck had fallen off and though he could breathe he could take nourishment only through an opening in his throat . . . and [I was told that] 'Pieces of flesh as large as my two hands have fallen off from different parts of his body.'

"The sick man's farm was given to the white men who attended him in the first of his ailment. Finally when they could no longer endure the ordeal the Indians were called in to pour water into his throat and give him whatever other attention they could and these received the sick man's bunch of horses for their pay. When he finally passed, the Indians carried out the awful remains by the four corners of the blanket upon which he had lain for weeks, and lowered that into the box the white had prepared. The blanket was tucked in over him and the box quickly nailed up and put into the deep grave as soon as possible. No funeral was held.

". . . [I gathered that a] bunch of enemies were heading a petition against me because I was a polygamist. . . .

"One called 'Jack Longstreet' became Reed's first attendant in company . . . To these men Reed confessed that his participation in the murder of the Prophets was the cause of his affliction. He said to Longstreet: 'It is the Mormon curse that is upon me. I cannot live---I must utterly rot before I die.'

"He said that Brigham Young had pronounced that curse upon all that mob, and he had known thirteen of them to die just as he was dying. But he had lived so long and had passed the unlucky number thirteen, that he had thought to escape the curse. He charged his attendants to never do anything against the Mormons, to be their friends, or said he, 'You may suffer the Mormon curse.' Longstreet related . . . this confession of Reed's as a warning . . . and declared that he himself would not dare to raise a hand against them. I don't think he ever did."

(ibid., pp. 294-96).
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As we followed the Carthage Jail tour guide and Ezra Taft Benson down the stairs, the guide emphasized to my grandfather in no uncertain terms that these graphic accounts supposedly detailing the fate of the Smiths’ murderers were not to be believed.

To the contrary, the guide said that many of the members of the mob who were responsible for the death of Mormonism’s two most prominent founders actually went on to very successful business and political careers.

Well, I'll be.

My grandfather again nodded approvingly, scowling slightly as he listened and voicing his agreement with the guide’s views.

All of which I found quite interesting.

This was the same Ezra Taft Benson who believed unswervingly in the literal truthfulness of Book of Mormon tales vividly describing, say, the gruesome fate of a premier prophet persecutor named Korihor--who was struck dumb through the power of God, reduced to abject beggary and eventually trampled to death for his wickedness.

The same held true for the sinful Book of Mormon Lamanites who because of their wicked, adulterous and murderous ways, were said to have been relegated by a vengeful God to darkened loathsomeness, marked by the finger of an accusing Maker with the curse of a brown skin and consigned to wear loincloths, to shave their heads and to stare into a bleak and miserable future.

Woe, woe and double-whammy woe.
_____


--The Moral of the Story for Would-Be Prophet Killers

Thus saith the Mormon God, if you’re going to kill the Lord’s prophets and other anointed ones, you'd be much better off doing it in modern times--you know, when there is an actual, historical paper trail that can be used to document what actually happened in your life following your murderous deeds.

As luck could have it, the evidence might end up showing you became a successful financier or a powerful elected public official.

Whatever you do, don’t be unlucky or dumb enough to choose murderous, wicked ways in the hazy, distant past—whereafter spine-tingling scripture stories can be invented and passed down from generation to generation, describing to wide-eyed little children in Sunday School how you were horribly punished by God for what you did.

That's not good because, with no recent paper trail, there's no way for anyone to prove any different.
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"Heh, heh, heh, cackle, cackle, cackle . . ."

(Lo, what's that? Behold, the creeped-out voice of Vincent Price, accompanied by Michael the "Thriller" Jackson and his Tap-Dancing Troupe of Bug-Eyed Corpses):

"Darkness falls across the land,
The Prophet's blood against you stands,
Your skin falls off, your sperm's a dud,
Your house is gone, God sent a flood.

"And whosoever shall be found
With gun in hand for shooting down my prophet
Shall face the hounds of Hell,
And rot a lot, with feet that smell.

"The foulest stench is in the air,
Your eyeballs gone, and so's your hair,
Your ears fall off, I curse your womb,
An unmarked grave will be your tomb.

"And even though it's all a lie,
Your body starts to shiver,
For no mere Mormon can resist
God messin' with your liver.

"Heh, heh, heh, cackle, cackle, cackle, HEH, HEH, HEH, CACKLE, CACKLE, CACKLE, HEH, HEH, HEH, CACKLE, CACKLE, CACKLE . . ."

"Creeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeak.

"SLAM!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1pwhR75eQ0


Amen.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2011 01:15AM by steve benson.

Last year while still a believer, we drove to Nauvoo with my in-laws, stopping at several of the major historical sites.

In a gift shop in Nauvoo, they were selling replica six-barrel pistols, and I didn't know why (even after visiting Carthage).

In hindsight I wish I had bought one.

Also from "Carthage Conspiracy" by Dallin Oaks and Marvin Hill

"A persistent Utah myth holds that some of the murderers of Joseph and Hyrum Smith met fittingly gruesome deaths-that providence intervened to dispense justice denied in the Carthage trial. But the five defendants who went to trial, included men who had been shown to be leaders in the murder plot and others associated with them, enjoyed notably successful careers."

Of course these myths were never dreamed up or supported by the leadership, it's the lowly members who make up these myths and spread them in an effort to promote the faith. Don't ever blame leadership for promoting these myths even when they repeat them in their sermons for the faith promoting effect. That's their story and they're sticking to it.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1005672,1005672#msg-1005672



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2013 05:58PM by steve benson.

Dunno much about jails, but what kind of jail has a window through which a prisoner can jump out? Did Joe cause the window to manifest by raising his right arm to the square?

In April of this year I visited Carthage and made an attempt to find out more about the wounded men. I could find no death records nor an indication the wounded men survived long. Some records, however, are missing. I suspect that Taylor is right and two died later of infection from their wounds, though this could only be proved by locating their burials. It is quite evident that little was done at the time of the trial in 1845 to locate the wounded men. This further leads me to think one or two may have been deceased. Remember that at the time it was quite common for wounded men to die later of infection.