In the other thread, some said they had to produce a W-2 when they went in to declare at settlement. You gotta be fucking kidding me! Tithing settlement is to "declare" a full tithing, not "calculate" a full tithing. If I EVER had been asked to produce a W-2, I'd have told the bishop to fuck off.

In all my 22 years in the morg, I was never asked to show an earnings statement or produce a W-2. NEVER!

Ron

Interesting. For a church which relies on emotional confirmation, its interesting that it is beginning to require empirical evidence of income. Science for the strong... faith for the gullible.


Exposing the trump card,

HH =)

Happy quote: "Interesting. For a church which relies on emotional confirmation, its interesting that it is beginning to require empirical evidence of income."

I agree! But wouldn't it be great if you could reply that empirical confirmation of your income would be provide upon you seeing the REAL Golden plates? No? That can't be done? I guess you will just have to take my income declaration on faith then!

My funniest was the bishop who decided to calculate each member's budget assessment based on a tax return type formula. It was a long form with income, deductions, etc and after filling out the form you calculated your budget amount. Did not sit too well with members. Wacky! This is when we had to pay a budget assessment along with tithing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2011 04:22PM by jim1.

I hear more and more about additional scrutiny being introduced by bishops somewhat off the reservation. Maybe not W-2s but certainly intrusive questions comparing lifestyles and last year's numbers and such.

Hell, I was an ExecSec to a bishop who was jerking recommends on a WofW basis because he thought that people were too fat. Sheesh!

In my former ward, the bishopric never required us to bring in W-2's, but they strongly recommended it, simply because they wanted to assist the members in calculating their 10%.

In hindsight, I wish I would have kept the letter they mailed out just prior to tithing settlement that included this offer for assistance. I blame the trash can that was conveniently located near the mailboxes.

pretty damn amusing / pretentious considering LDS inc cut off open disclosure of their own financials to the public & members back in 1959.

Tithing settlement has to be done by the end of December.

Another issue that thwarts a claim of the bishop asking for a W-2, right?

That's true Heresy, I've never gotten a W-2 by the end of December.

You wouldn't and couldn't. Your employer does not (and legally cannot) pre-calculate the taxes and deductions from your pay before the year ends. They do not have the data needed to produce the W-2 until the last pay period of the year has ended.

By law, employers must send the W-2s out by the end of January. Payrolls close out for December in the first week of January. The size and established processes in the company will determine how long it takes but employers are not allowed to look into a crystal ball and GUESS how many hours you work (in the case of hourly employees). Nobody would get a W-2 in the same calendar year.

As has been pointed out, tithing settlement must be completed by 12/31. The claim makes no logical sense.

that have a form of socialism where numerous expenditures are covered by the state, account for their "gross"? In the US many things aren't paid for and have to come out of our gross or net income and would therefore be subject to tithing whereas in other countries they are provided for by the government.

Services that you pay for yourself come out of your net income. Services the government provides are paid for in taxes that come out of your gross income.

If you are expected to pay tithing on gross income, it doesn't matter whether the money for the services comes out of your gross (pre-tax) or net (after tax) income. You are tithed on all of it, either way.

things like medical care are free -- provided by the government. Neither part of gross nor net.
But I think we are WAY over-thinking this.

I have been a member over 30 years and have never heard of such shit like that! O_o

I've served in the Bishopric, as a Branch President, and Executive Secretary and I've never heard or seen this ever. It is plain that the OP heard innacurate news and passed it along.

Nobody ever receives their W2 until January and most of the time it arrives between January 10 and 25th. There is no way on earth that you would have a 2010 W2 in December 2010 - in time for tithing settlement. It just doesn't happen.

This thread just proves that we ex-mo's are quick to jump the gun and accuse the Morg of outlandish behavior when that behavior is simply impossible to begin with. It gives us a bad name.

I was a full tithe payer to the church for at least 15 years. Never once was asked for proof of income to compare to my tithing receipts.

As a ward financial clerk I never looked a some ones annual tithing report and connected it to how much they make. I did not care. I believe that most ward financial clerks could care less. All we want to do it print out the reports and go home to a football game.

Every Tithing settlement went as follows.

Brother and sister Mormonista,thanks for coming . Here is your annual tithing report. Is this accurate? Does this constitute a full tithe?

Sign here. Thanks.

I have been in 10+ wards/branches and have never heard of this shit(obligatory cuss word) I have attended 1000s of EQ meetings and hundreds of HPG meetings and hundreds of correlation meetings and never heard of it.

I think these incidences are far and few between. I am sure they are rare. I know that everyone has different experiences when it comes to the Corporation of the 15 rich dudes, but I am starting to think that some of this stuff is starting to smell like ass smoke...

However, when I was a little boy I remember attending tithing settlement with my family and my father brought in tax forms. I don't know if he had to though. He was a recently baptized convert, so maybe they were showing him how to pay on gross.

Also, I talked to an ex-Mormon in a chatroom years ago who told me that he had to pay tithing on his business. It was a trucking business in Utah, and he told me that he had to bring in his ledger so that they could see how much he owed in tithing. I didn't believe it, but he seemed very sure that's what happened. I've never even heard of anything like that in all my experience with Mormonism. He was very outraged about it, and he said this was the reason he left the Church. He also said that if he had paid tithing on his business, the Church would have gotten more than any of his employees.

Deenie seemed to have an exceptional gift for running into serious whackjob Mormons. I will never forget her tale about the bishop who tried to get her to pay tithing on the VALUE OF MEALS she ate at the home of her parents!

Seems to me that's about as money-grubbing as it gets.

Yea, you wouldn't even have a W-2 for the year in question in December. I don't believe the story. I have never, ever, heard of this type of thing. If a bishop wanted to look at a previous year's W-2 he could ask but I think most members would balk at providing it. Tithing settlement has never been one of comparing and computing numbers. It involves a simple question about whether this amount is a full tithe. I'm pretty sure any deviation from that could cause problems for a bishop if the member pressed the issue and alerted the SP or the "bretheren".

If the church ever started doing something like this they would be crossing a "bridge too far" for almost all members. The church members are struggling also due to the economy. They are in a bit of a stressed out mode. A demand to see personal financial records would take many of them right out of the church.

I didn't believe that post, either. Like the former ward clerk who posted, most bishops want the interview done with and want to go home, or they have another meeting lined up after tithing settlement. 24-32 hours a week in their calling, why drag it out any longer than it has to be. They ask if the info is correct, and are you a full tithepayer. Its December after all, there is always tons to do during the holidays.

a pay stub would cover the desired info!! :(

Paystubs, not W2's. The last stub of the year most likely shows cumulative earnings.

All, I know is that I lived in a ward in Newport Beach where the bishop asked the members in a letter to bring proof of their income. Call me a liar if you want, but it happened.

that it is not hard for me to believe some have asked members to provide documentation of income (in some form) during tithing settlement.

Although I think the whole "tithing settlement" practice is disturbing enough on its own-- what charity or organization asks you to account for your income and the percentage that you have donated?