Me-"First I'd say there is no harm in joining a religion you don't believe in. It's not going to hurt anyone so who cares?"
Second I echo others here. Be VERY careful. Haven't you heard the horror stories of Western women marrying men from those countries?

You--"Yeah, I guess you're right. Every single male who happened to be born in an Islamic country must be an evil kidnapper, jihadist and terrorist. Good thing there are people like you to save Western women from falling into that trap."


I didn't say that all Muslim men are bad. I simply meant to point out that there have been famous cases of women doing this and then being burned. I'd say the same thing to men marrying a foreign woman because of the recent cases of child abduction. The laws protecting parents internationally are not there. Just like the laws protecting women are not there in many Muslim countries. I'd tell anyone getting married to watch themselves because I am just that cynical about marriage. When you go to a Muslim country, ANYTIME, you need to be careful. Your own state department will tell you that.

Don't come to a board, ask for advice, and then attack when some of that advice offends you. I wasn't trying to save you. But again YOU ASKED FOR OPINIONS!!! You had to expect exactly what you got. Muslims aren't exactly the most popular people in the world right now. The world may be judging them to harshly but that doesn't change the facts.

Stay off the internet people if you don't want to get a huge range of opinions!

about visiting Muslim countries or whether I should marry a former Muslim. I asked for opinions about joining a religion I don't believe in. There wasn't much of a range of opinions on that topic.

You could have asked your question, which I answered un-swayed by the rest of your post, and not added all the controversial stuff. It doesn't matter that you didn't directly ask for an opinion. One asks for, or should expect, unsolicited opinions when they share personal things on an open board.

I think in this case your possible conversion to Islam IS contextual. It would be one thing if you converted to Islam and then married a fellow Muslim whose family is multi-generational American. I think that you would still be dealing with a lot of cultural issues, but at least your safety would be more of a sure thing.

But you are talking about marrying a foreign national who comes from a culture that traditionally is not friendly to women's rights. That's a whole 'nother ball of wax.

Given the latter circumstance, I most defintely would *not* convert to Islam. In all likelihood, you will travel back to Afghanistan as a family at some point in order to visit relatives and friends. Do you know what your rights would be as a woman married to an Afghani national? How about as a Muslim woman married to an Afghani national? Even if your intended someday acquires U.S. citizenship, would Afghanistan still consider him to be a national if he sets foot on their soil again? Can you say with confidence that your intended would *never* take your future children out of the country without your permission?

Even if you can get firm answers to all of those questions, keep in mind that the situation in Afghanistan is far from stable. What works today may not work tomorrow.

The grease in the pan on the stove has caught fire. You calmly ask about the best ingredients for a cake, and then wonder why everyone around you is concerned about putting out the fire rather than answering your question.

The previous thread closed before I realized that YOU HAVE NOT EVEN SEEN THIS MAN FOR OVER TWO YEARS! That, along with everything else you have said, tells me that your fiancé has but one intention: TO USE YOU as an immigration ticket.

Would it be kinder of us to pretend that this is not the case, when we have personally known women in the same situation who have dealt with the painful fallout?

My guess is that most people on this board do not prefer to see you make a choice which you are virtually certain to regret and pay for dearly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2011 11:32AM by WiserWomanNow.

..but my two cents anyway. I think she came across defensive because she thinks she is in love with the dude (Muslim?) and she doesn't want anyone trying to talk her out of it. She was hoping to find moral support in her choice, and didn't like any response to the contrary.

I agree with Bingo4 in every point. Good advice from a man who knows what he's talking about.

"Sexismyreligion", Bingo won't tell you this, but I will. Bingo4 is a battle hardened war hero in my book. He served multiple tours in Iraq as a US Marine. He has seen first hand, the culture, the religion, etc. I can tell from his dialogue to you that he was speaking out of concern and experience. He wasn't dissin' you or a religion, but rather was just telling you like it is. He's been there, he's seen it, and he knows.

Me neither, but from another personal experience, a friend of mine married at the age of 16 to a foreigner she barely knew. She moved to India with him without knowing much about the Islamic OR Indian cultures.

She spent years in an abusive relationship till she finally got away from him.

Be cautious, even if you really think this guy is the one. Also, read the book, "Princess: A True Story of Life Behind the Veil in Saudi Arabia" by Jean Sasson.

JUst something to think about.

edit- thanks WWN.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2011 11:32AM by Itzpapalotl.

We all know what it's like to be in love. I have five daughters, ranging from 10 to 22 years. As a father, all I can say to you is DONT DO IT. The risk is to high. There are so many guys out there, with your American culture and background. Another poster opined that it may not be his religion that could be problematic for you, but rather his culture - his upbringing. He could get very AUTHORITARIAN on you, and you would be miserable. I know he doesn't act that way now. Pay attention to how his fathers, uncles, grandfathers, treat their women for a glimpse. You were raised in a religion that taught you to make huge choices by "feelings" as opposed to critically thinking about, and weighing the pros and cons. There are many many fish in the sea. A similar scenario happened to a friend of mine at work. His very attractive 23 year old daughter fell in love with a professor at a local university. He was Muslim, but not strong Muslim (not practicing). They all flew to a Islamic country fo the marriage, and then they all flew back. True to his word, he did not practice the religion, but within week he became so authoritarian, that she had to divorce him. She was heartbroken. He would only allow her to call her parents at certain times during the day (i.e. 6-8pm). They could only visit on certain days. She had to have his dinner ready by 5pm. He became sort of mean and overbearing. He placed restrictions on her facebook and phone, and on and on. It was the culture, not the religion necessarily, that was the problem. He didn't show it, until they were married.

The man she wants to marry does not exist. He is a fiction, created in her mind.

She has not seen him two and a half years, never lived with him, and met him under war time conditions.

NOT a good basis for a marriage, even without all the other red flags.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2011 12:23PM by snb.

I understand that Islam is an authoritarian religion - but I'm having a hard time seeing how an Afghan man who speaks out against the religion, at the risk of his own life, and who is more supportive of equality for women than the U.S. soldiers he works with, while in his own country - could suddenly have a complete personality change and become an authoritarian Muslim, when he gets to the United States.
Yes, it's true that I haven't seen him face to face in over two years, but I have seen him on Skype, I talk to him regularly on the internet and the phone. I don't see how being in a long-distance relationship automatically dooms a marriage to failure.
The idea that he's trying to use me to get to the U.S. is not true. He could have tried to get a visa years ago, through the military, but he didn't even try because it wasn't important to him. For two years he was trying to get an interpreter visa to get here on his own, because he didn't want anyone to think that he was using me to get a visa. I finally talked him into the idea of getting a marriage visa, because I don't want to wait any more, and I don't care what people might think.
Just a quick FYI - the cultures in Iraq and Afghanistan are completely different. Both are Muslim, but that's about it as far as similarities.
Most of the horror stories seem to be about Muslim men in the U.S. who act moderate at first, but become fundamentalist authoritarians in the context of their culture of origin. Has anyone ever heard of a man from a Muslim country who declares himself non-Muslim while still in his country, and then reverses and becomes authoritarian after immigrating to a more liberal country? It would be like expecting an ex-Mormon in Utah to move to California and suddenly become TBM. I just don't see it happening.

Marriage can change things, and having children can change things. You've seen it reflected in posts on this board. Someone who has fallen away from Mormonism marries, and all of a sudden starts going back to church again. Or the nice guy that a girl has been dating suddenly turns authoritarian. Or the kids come along, and a partner who has been very relaxed about religion all of a sudden turns rabid TBM.

There is a difference, though, between someone who has fallen away or become relaxed about religion and someone who has actively chosen to leave after seeing the flaws in the religion. There's a difference between a Jack Mormon and an apostate, and in the same way, there's a difference between a Muslim who doesn't practice the religion and one who has been declared an infidel for asking too many questions.

I dated a man from another (foreign) culture for three years. That's three years of frequent face-to-face contact and pretty much every weekend together. Making two cultures mesh is hard work, and there were a lot of things I wouldn't have realized if I hadn't been interacting with him in person. Some people can pull it off, but it's not for everyone. I came to he realization that it was not for me.

I would not marry someone from another culture unless we had that frequent, current, face-to-face contact. It's just too chancey. Throw in the fact that he's from a culture in which women are treated horribly, and it increases the risk.

You are putting yourself into a high-risk situation. Yeah, it might work. But it also might end really, really badly. You are throwing the dice, so to speak. Do you feel lucky?

Yes, I'm willing to take the risk. Being able to get married to him is the goal I've been working towards for over two years. I'm never going to marry anyone else. I love him, I trust him, and I respect him more than anyone I know. It doesn't seem like much of a risk to me. On the other hand, am I willing to risk missing out on the one thing that will make me happiest in my life? No, I'm not.

You are thinking about this in a critically minded manner, and you are coming out of that conditioned morgbot mold that many of us have had to break. In other words, I can tell by you responses that you've given this a great deal of forethought. You know, marriage is a big big committment. Instead of marrying him, live with him for a few years. You don't really know a person until you live with them for a year or two, and stay on birth control the whole time. Don't rush into a marriage. Surely he can find another way to enter the US, i.e. work visa, student visa.. Another thing you should consider is that he may be willing to say just about anything to get US citizenship, even defy his own religion. Think about it. You just don't know.

I've tried everything - student visas, meeting in another country, I tried looking into work visas but not sure how to even get started on that, and he's kept applying for an interpreter visa but so far no word on that. We've both spent a considerable amount of time and money trying different options, with no success. I don't care about marriage so much, if I was able to live with him - but I don't see how that would be possible. I can't live in Afghanistan, and he can't get out of Afghanistan very easily.

sexismyreligion Wrote:
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> I'm never going to marry anyone else. I love him, I trust him, and I respect him more than anyone I know.

I don't know how old you are, but...when I was in my 20's, there was a man that I truly, madly, deeply loved. There would never be another man for me. He was it. He was perfect for me.

It didn't happen. I was devastated.

It wasn't until much later that his flaws, which I was semi-aware of as a young woman, but discounted, became more apparent. Even my friends had tried to tell me things about him at the time in order to bring me back down to Earth. I was deaf to their concerns. I had been in love. That's all that mattered to me at the time. My love for him was like a drug. I needed it to live.

In retrospect, I dodged the proverbial bullet. He was most definitely not right for me.

I long ago gave up the notion that there is one perfect man out there for me. There are lots of great guys. I could be happy with any number of them.

I doubt that I'll change your mind. I'm just trying to throw some things out there for you to consider.

If your goal is marriage, why not find a fellow American soldier?

There must be miles and miles of lonely GI dick in every one of uncle Sam's units overseas.

That way you'll know what you're getting - and marriage would still a gamble.
But at least the odds are stacked in your favor somewhat when you are coming from the same background.

Yes, I would know what was getting if I married a military guy - and it's not what I want. I suppose you'd say, better the evil that you know than the unknown? I think I'd choose to stay single instead.

Be specific to avoid any further unwanteds.

Timothy