Is there anything morally wrong with joining a religion you don't actually believe in?
Here's my situation - I'm still technically Mormon, since I haven't resigned yet. I'm engaged to a guy who is considered Muslim by default in his country, even though he doesn't believe in it or actively practice it. Due to visa restrictions, I'm traveling to his country to get married, then trying to get him over here to the U.S. It would make things easier if I were Muslim.
Does integrity demand that my declared religion match my true beliefs? Or is religion just a social construct and a label that I can choose to use however I like? No religion can accurately represent my beliefs, anyway. If I am a Mormon to some people, a Muslim to others, and an atheist/agnostic to others, is that dishonesty - or is it just allowing people to give me whatever label they are most comfortable with?

I wouldn't if I were you.

There's just something about going to the Muslim country as a woman, declaring yourself Muslim just to get married in that country under that country's laws - that hurts my tummy.

Please don't tell me the country is run by Sharia law.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2011 10:17PM by raptorjesus.

I'm not going to be living there - just going for a visit. I've talked to lawyers, and there doesn't seem to be any other option besides going there to get married. Our country doesn't have very permissive immigration policies for people from Islamic countries. I could go as a non-Muslim, but that might be worse.

What bothers me about your story is YOU going over there to get married. Sure, your situation might be different but I've known two women who saw everything change in their spouse in the culture of a predominantly Muslim culture.

My two acquaintances had trouble being allowed to leave once they got married and quickly became objects of oppression, trapped in the culture and the family of the spouse. One tried to get divorced but was unable to take her child out with her.

I say forget getting married. Keep him here in the USA and move in together. If he can't stay here single, that should also send up warning signs.

I don't think it would be dishonest to be Mormon when you want, or Muslim when you want. They are all just cultural mores. Use them to your advantage. They lie to you. Don't take them seriously.

Dagny, I think you missed the point - he's not in the U.S., and I don't know how else to get him here, other than by getting married. Fiance visas don't work, because there's a nice little condition in there that says you have to have met in person within the last 2 years. We waited too long and missed the 2-year deadline.
I don't think I have to worry about getting trapped over there, either. I'll just be staying in a hotel near the airport for a couple of weeks.

I'm worried for you. Hoping it goes well for you!

I am not an attorney, but I think it is possible you have misunderstood the clause. You seem to be suggesting "met in person within the last two years" refers to when you made his acquaintance. I think it means that within the last two years you have to have met with one another in person. I think this clause is to avoid "mail order brides" and schemes of marrying people who have never met in person.

We met face to face when I was deployed to Afghanistan, but for the past two and a half years we kept in contact online and through phone calls. We have not seen each other in person during that time - he's in Afghanistan and I'm in the United States.

Ok, so then couldn't you just visit him in Afghanistan (or somewhere else, for that matter) and then he would be eligible to enter the US on a fiance visa?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2011 11:59PM by pista.

Yes, I could go meet him in Afghanistan and then wait another year to get married. I'm just tired of waiting. It's been too long already, and I'm not getting any younger.

I am sympathetic. My (now ex) husband was from the UK and already had a good job here, and it was before 2001. It was still a HUGE pain in the ass, so I can only imagine the hoops you are dealing with.

Given all that, going back to your original question, I think only you can decide if it's an integrity issue. Claiming a religion you don't believe is not doing anyone any harm, so I would argue that's a personal choice. I would not do it myself, but I think you would be justified.

From a practical perspective, I would just recommend that you figure out how such a move could really affect you in the long run. There could definitely be unforeseen complications from this course of action.

I do appreciate that you are tired of waiting, but don't let that cause you to rush into something you could end up regretting.

Seems like people are assuming that anyone born Muslim is going to revert to being a womanizer, want to raise kids as Muslim, etc. I'm engaged to an ex-Muslim, who doesn't believe in Islam, doesn't practice it, actively speaks out against mistreatment of women, and has been in combat fighting against Muslim extremists. He's about as likely to return to practicing Islam as all the ex-Mormons on here are to return to Mormonism. I suppose we should be warning never-mos not to date or think about getting married to any of us ex-Mormons, because it's inevitable that we will all go back to our original culture, degrading women, blacks, and homosexuals. Once we have children, we're sure to decide that they have to be raised Mormon. It's our culture, after all, and it's the way we have been raised, so you have to expect that ex-Mormons will inevitably fall back on their upbringing.

"No one comes to the Father but by me."

You can - but then you have to be a sexual slave forever.

Didn't take the time to read your post but you don't believe in sex? What's wrong with you?

First I'd say there is no harm in joining a religion you don't believe in. It's not going to hurt anyone so who cares?

Second I echo others here. Be VERY careful. Haven't you heard the horror stories of Western women marrying men from those countries?

Yeah, I guess you're right. Every single male who happened to be born in an Islamic country must be an evil kidnapper, jihadist and terrorist. Good thing there are people like you to save Western women from falling into that trap.

I would research non-muslim women that went to Islamic States to get married and got themselves into a huge mess. Many Islamic States do not recognize women as people, but as property of the husband. Immediately after you are legally married by the laws of that land, you could, in effect become his "property" and if he decides that you will stay, then you will stay. End of discussion. Be cautious.

I'm in the military, and the guy I'm getting married to is an interpreter I worked with in Afghanistan. The real danger of going back to Afghanistan to get married is the possibility of suicide bombers, attacks on hotels, etc. It's not likely that my new husband would try to keep me there against my will - all I would have to do is contact the U.S. military in the area.
Anyway, back to the original question - does anyone think it is dishonest to join a religion I don't believe in?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2011 11:02PM by sexismyreligion.

But is it ethical?

I think you have to be the one to be ok with that.

My question should be, is it ethical? Would I feel like I'm not being true to myself? Would it cause harm to anyone, in any way?
But on the other hand, I have to become Muslim to ever be able to claim the title of ex-Muslim. Maybe I'll quit both religions at the same time.

You cannot just "leave" Islam. If the people you surround yourself are conservative in any way (my ex inlaws are radical) there is no leaving. Believe me, I hide my disbelief from them to keep me safe. Not exaggerating at all. If his family is moderate and more westernized it will be easier to take the Shahada and then walk away from Islam.

I don't see a problem so long as your futire hisband knows your views.

I did that very thing, I married a Muslim so it would make immigration easier, and then I adopted his religion and lost myself. Not saying it will happen to you but my advice for any non Muslim considering marrying into Islam is to run away as fast and as far as possible. I used to moderate a group called wives of muslim husbands. There was 250 of us at one point. There is 8 marriages that have survived 10 years later and lots and lots pf heartache and tears along the way. I dealt with kidnapping, abuse and treating women as 2nd class citizens (come to think of it as a Mormon woman I fit right in!) Also there is a HUGE difference between Asian Muslims and Arab Muslims. I still let them think I'm Muslim (my ex in law and family) and my kids are raised with Muslim culture to keep the peace. Email me off board! I have a ton of questions and some good advice. Not trying to scare you off, if it's love and you think it will work there are a few things to keep in mind to keep harmony. Good luck! Dryadswhisper@gmail.com

I have known women in similar circumstances who ended up in a difficult and/or miserable situation. And like you, they all had trusted their husband “Never!” to do the very things that those same men ended up doing!

Islam allows Muslim men to marry Christian or Jewish women (although the reverse is not true: Muslim women may not marry Christian or Jewish men.) From that standpoint, your being (“technically”) Christian is no impediment.

If you become "Muslim on paper," you will be expected to follow through with Muslim customs and beliefs. Do you know what those customs and beliefs are? Are you comfortable with them? Are you comfortable raising your children in them?

Educate yourself NOW about Sharia law. Be aware that Sharia still allows Muslims to kill a fellow Muslim who converts to different religion. This is not practiced as much nowadays, but it does happen.

Read about Americans who have married Muslims, so that you will be aware of the types of challenges that arise. And take up Rosyjenn on her generous offer to contact her.

In response to the horror stories, my cousin married a Muslim. He was not religious, allowed her to raise the kids as Mromons. Eventually they divirced but the issue was that he was a womanizer and had been from the beginning. I would be careful, but it doesn't have to turn out like the horror stories.

You are wanting to marry a man you haven't seen in over 2 years and who is from a different culture.

PLEASE WOMAN - use your head!!!!!!

You are his passport to the land of the big PX.

Get it??????

What is happening to you has happened to numerous GIs, in whatever country they have been stationed. Except that you are a female GI, but the story is the same.

WISE UP.

That was another issue with my cousin. He was more interested in living in America than he was in my cousin. I don't know your situation, but the fact that you haven't seen him for two years is bothersome.
.

Allowing others to label you???? You must be kidding. Why in the world would you think this is a good way to live. A female in a Muslim country would send up red flags to me. Why not marry here? Is this another fishy story everyone????

I would not convert to Islam under the circumstances. I would not go back to Afghanistan. Isn't there someplace else you two could meet up? Europe? India?

But most of all I would listen to Rosyjenn. Dating someone from another culture is very difficult. Been there, done that, for three years of face-to-face interaction. There are more pitfalls than you can ever imagine, and that's taking into account a whole lot of goodwill on both sides. Plus, your boyfriend's culture does not have a very positive view of women. At least some of that attitude has likely rubbed off on him.

If you ever have children, and you eventually get divorced, has it dawned on you that he might want to take them back to Afghanistan? And that once in, it might be darned near impossible to get them out? You wouldn't be the first American woman that this has happened to.

How about when he wants to go home to visit family? Do you feel comfortable in a burka? I used to watch an Iranian friend of mine purchase a whole new wardrobe whenever she went back home. That would not be my prefered lifestyle!

Just some things to think about.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2011 12:35AM by summer.