To answer a question from SusieQ on another closed thread... the main thing that comes to mind is these kinds of people want to tell a huge sob story for sympathy and validation. I've been accused of this several times when I posted my bio...the big difference here is, I've always been very quick to back all my stuff up, whereas other people have/will not.

Just my thoughts.

Here's a post about people messing with others:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,241080

I try to be understanding and empathetic towards people are having a roughttime. I certainly would not like to be called a liar for some of the things I've been through.
My PTSD and social anxiety stem from a series of events that sound so out there and crazy that I didn't open up about to my family for years. Needless to say, they were shocked I had been carrying that pain for so long without telling anyone.

I think the main thing to keep in mind is "Trust, but verify."

Wish there was a "like" button as I sure agree with Susan I/S. Lots of Catholic BS.

Story story story story YAY CATHOLICS story story story. Story story story story CATHOLICS ARE THE BEST story story story. Story story story story MY PRIEST IS AWESOME story story story story story. Story story story story ALL YOU POOR EXMORMONS JUST DON'T KNOW THE REAL JESUS BUT IF YOU WOULD GO TO MASS YOU WOULD AND BE HAPPY story story story story story.

At times you can even go to sites and find where they are talking about doing things like this. Some call it ministering to us. Oh there was a guy that was at a Catholic seminary that did it too for a while. Oh and another where the real agenda was to try to get people to go to their evangelical camp for abuse survivors. It is not just LDSInc that has no problem telling lies for the Lord.

I don't have much of a dog in this fight simply because I didn't read a lot of the posts. However, the first few posts seemed to do this exact behavior.

Then my brain shut off and I stopped following it.

Now if they had been fighting a giant robot dragon?

I would have been there the whole time!

That makes me a bit angry.

But yes, it has happened in the past. Verified by either finding them talking about it in another place or by their own admission.

Is she still allowed to post here?

I didn't see Stormy as really pushing the Catholic church, but she certainly mentioned it a lot.I'm not sure that her agenda was religion as much as attention. I also wonder if part of the story may be true, but highly embellished and written as if three people were posting. We will probably never know. At any rate Stormy got a lot of attention out of this and that may have been the motive. Also it was probably fun tricking so many people.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2011 03:50PM by bona dea.

That said, those who reached out to these folks in their alleged hour of need, you did the right thing. You showed compassion and empathy for someone who claimed to need your help.

The embarrassment belongs to stormy and her sock puppets, not you all. Just because stormy turned out to be a fraud doesn't mean your very supportive and heartfelt posts didn't help others reading your posts.

Erin

Manipulative posters know how to play people, and many fall for their drama. Posters doing this deliberately draw attention away from others who really need help. I have seen posters, and myself included, who have had to emphasize their need for help, because they were being ignored as the board chased a troll or sensational post. They also violate the trust of people here. Trust is important everywhere, but especially here, because nearly everyone posting on the board has been damaged by trusting in a fraud. Each time this happened I posted less or left the board for a time. I hate liars with a passion few can understand.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2011 04:05PM by atheist&happy:-).

It does do damage and diverts people away from posters who are really in need. I'm not trying to minimize that reality.

However, there really isn't anything we can do about it. Closing ourselves off from everyone because of a few liars isn't a desirable outcome either.

So, what do to? I say, trust the people here who are legit and know that they appreciate supportive and thoughtful posts even if the OP turns out to be a fraud.

And most importantly, people shouldn't feel ashamed or embarrassed by being intentionally lied to. As I said, the shame belongs to the liar, not those who took that person at face value and tried to help and be supportive.

I agree and I hate people who call troll on everyone with little or no reason. Report it if you think someone is a troll and then ignore it. It is hurtful to be doubted when you a are not lying. That has happened to many of us. In the posts under discussion, I think we have reason to question, but that is not always the case.

I disagree when you say we can do nothing about it. We can do something about it; we can improve our critical thinking skills.

I do not close myself off. That is a false assumption. When I leave I pursue other avenues of support; rebuilding networks of support for someone with bad PTSD, and health issues can take time. When I do not feel I have the support I need, I look for it somewhere else.

When I see inconsistencies, I simply do not trust. I think the blame lies with the poster, but reactions are a different issue.
If people feel ashamed, I say own it, and learn how to not let it happen again. Don't dismiss it, and say there was nothing you could do. After being conned, in hindsight, most people can identify nagging feelings or cues that something was wrong.

For everyone, everywhere in the world.

However, that still isn't going to filter out all the deliberate frauds on this planet. It just won't. Particularly in an environment like this one, where we must take at face value what is presented to us by anonymous, faceless posters.

I didn't really follow stormy's story all that closely precisely because the narrative raised my suspicions. It was all just too perfectly orchestrated, so I didn't follow it.

a&e said:

"I do not close myself off. That is a false assumption. When I leave I pursue other avenues of support; rebuilding networks of support for someone with bad PTSD, and health issues can take time. When I do not feel I have the support I need, I look for it somewhere else."

I wasn't talking about you, but rather the board collectively. As bona dea pointed out, hollering troll every time your suspicions are aroused isn't always a good idea. Those types of posts also distract the board and divert resources from those who need it. It just isn't productive, to me, to react that way.

As for you, personally, you need to do whatever you need to do to get what you need and if this board doesn't always meet those needs, then you should definitely try to find alternate sources of support for yourself.

a&e said:

"If people feel ashamed, I say own it, and learn how to not let it happen again. Don't dismiss it, and say there was nothing you could do. After being conned, in hindsight, most people can identify nagging feelings or cues that something was wrong."

Whatever works for you, a&e. Is there any reason that people can't upgrade their BS detectors without having to internalize the shame of being lied to? That is certainly my approach.

You gotta do what you gotta do, but I don't see why we all have to deal with such situations in an identical fashion.

>... where we must take at face value what is
> presented to us by anonymous, faceless posters.

Well, if your strategy of taking everything at face value works for you, more power to you, because I do not think that is a wise way to go through life. Even you yourself admitted to doing just what I did - not following the “story” closely, because it did not seem right:

> I didn't really follow stormy's story all that
> closely precisely because the narrative raised my
> suspicions. It was all just too perfectly
> orchestrated, so I didn't follow it.

> I wasn't talking about you, but rather the board
> collectively. As bona dea pointed out, hollering
> troll every time your suspicions are aroused isn't
> always a good idea.

A lot of people had suspicions, and a few made small comments here, and there. Maybe we should have called troll sooner.

> Whatever works for you, a&e. Is there any reason
> that people can't upgrade their BS detectors
> without having to internalize the shame of being
> lied to? That is certainly my approach.

Learning from our reactions does not equate with internalizing them.

> You gotta do what you gotta do, but I don't see
> why we all have to deal with such situations in an
> identical fashion.

I never said we need to react identically. That's an exaggeration of what I said out of context. I was only disagreeing with your "all is well" approach.

"Well, if your strategy of taking everything at face value works for you, more power to you, because I do not think that is a wise way to go through life. Even you yourself admitted to doing just what I did - not following the “story” closely, because it did not seem right"

I did not say I take everything at face value. I said specifically that I tend to do so here, on this board, at least until I have evidence to back my suspicions.

Do you remember Timothy going after Amazing Grace because her story was too incredible to believe? I was suspicious, just like Timothy. Guess what: we were wrong.

"A lot of people had suspicions, and a few made small comments here, and there. Maybe we should have called troll sooner."

With nothing to back it up, it's all just he said/she said, isn't it.

"Learning from our reactions does not equate with internalizing them."

It certainly can lead to internalizing them. That was what I wanted to point out in my original post.

"I never said we need to react identically. That's an exaggeration of what I said out of context. I was only disagreeing with your "all is well" approach."

Fair enough. My bad. To be fair, it seems you are characterizing me/my posts as some sort of naif, head-in-the-sand, Pollyanna. That is a baseless assumption on your part.

At the end of the day, I am just not as emotionally invested in this board as some folks are. I've been out for 25 years and have a solid social network around me IRL. I can afford to take potentially fraudulent posters at their word because it has zero impact on me personally. I really was just trying to do some damage control, specifically for folks like itzaplotl (sic?) who seemed to be feeling really self-critical about this whole mess.

Board rules specifically say NOT to call troll and to report suspicions to Susan. If you do call a person a troll and Susan sees it, she will delete it.

After what I went through with so many "friends," It bums me out to see people screw with other's heads. I don't ever want to go through those experiences again and I don't wish them on anyone. It really screwed me up for years. I still have issues regarding trusting people.

Something I've learned is when some keeps repeating themselves constantly, "I hate liars" or "Really I'm a nice guy!" I run the other way.

Particularly in high school. A pair of sisters who really did in my ability to trust other folks.

I know exactly where you're coming from Itz. It took me a long time and some extraordinary friends to overcome that.

Just hang in there, keep working on it and realize this ain't on you.

> I did not say I take everything at face value. I
> said specifically that I tend to do so here, on
> this board, at least until I have evidence to back
> my suspicions.

I was only going off your comment:

>... where we must take at face value what is
> presented to us by anonymous, faceless posters.

I do not remember Timothy going after Amazing Grace. When was that? Personally, I do not post much detail of my trauma here, because ironically I do not feel it would be constructive for my recovery. People would not believe it, and I have personal safety issues.

> With nothing to back it up, it's all just he
> said/she said, isn't it.

There was plenty of evidence to back up our suspicions. People have mentioned the identical sentences, bad grammar, writing style, etc. Maybe we should hit the report button more often.

> "Learning from our reactions does not equate with
> internalizing them."
>
> It certainly can lead to internalizing them. That
> was what I wanted to point out in my original
> post.

Thank you for clarifying. It can lead to it, but not always. Internalize has a negative connotation. Experience for good or bad does become a part of who we are. We can learn from it, ignore it, deny it, become a doormat in the morgbot way, "internalize" it in a destructive way, etc.

> Fair enough. My bad. To be fair, it seems you
> are characterizing me/my posts as some sort of
> naif, head-in-the-sand, Pollyanna. That is a
> baseless assumption on your part.

Your words, not mine. I am not characterizing you in any way, just disagreeing, because I see things differently.

> At the end of the day, I am just not as
> emotionally invested in this board as some folks
> are. I've been out for 25 years and have a solid
> social network around me IRL. I can afford to
> take potentially fraudulent posters at their word
> because it has zero impact on me personally. I
> really was just trying to do some damage control,
> specifically for folks like itzaplotl (sic?) who
> seemed to be feeling really self-critical about
> this whole mess.

You do not sound like someone who is not emotionally invested to me. If fraudulent posters have exactly "zero impact" on you, it does not mean others can brush it off just the same. Why not reply to Itzpapalotl? She started an entire thread on liars.

elsewhere.

"You do not sound like someone who is not emotionally invested to me. If fraudulent posters have exactly "zero impact" on you, it does not mean others can brush it off just the same. Why not reply to Itzpapalotl? She started an entire thread on liars."

What? I'm sorry, but I'm confused by this. Equally confused by you thinking you can read my mind or know me well enough to infer anything about me from my limited participation on this forum.

Elee,I had a similar problem with this poster a few days ago. She thought I hijacked her thread and went off on me although I thought we were talking about the same thing and tried to explain that I was not trying to take over her thread. She called me %%^& troll among other things and got deleted. I'm not trying to rehash this and will not comment on it again , but I'd suggest you let it go and not engage with her.

I do not believe that someone who cannot drop this, and agree to disagree, is not emotionally invested. I see it in print before me! I can read. I have a hard time believing that someone who comes to a recovery board would not be emotionally invested in some way.

elee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That said, those who reached out to these folks in
> their alleged hour of need, you did the right
> thing. You showed compassion and empathy for
> someone who claimed to need your help.

=============================================================

I agree.


In the work I do for the VA, I have occasionally had someone lie to me about their experience in order to get benefits. I had my suspicions confirmed about one man by another veteran I was seeing who asked if it bothered me. It does somewhat, of course, but my reply was if the system is so tight as to catch every possible cheater, it would prevent a lot of deserving people from getting help. I think it is worth the cost of letting a few cheaters through to help all the deserving people we reasonably can.

I feel the same way about RfM. I don't have an opinion about Stormy, but I am glad we tend to be caring and responsive to people who come here saying they are in trouble, even when that means we get taken in now and then. At the same time we benefit from having folks here that function as "guardians" and are concerned we don't get taken in too often; otherwise,we could not operate with the degree of truth that makes the board work.

Could you shed light on why people engage in this kind of behaviour? Is it considered sociopathic to act that way?

Yes, I am a therapist. As such, I'm used to getting only part of the story :p. As has been mentioned, attention or perhaps enjoyment of fooling other people. It could be the expression of a need to feel powerful or possibly an expression of anger.

I don't know that it would be psychopathic, but it does show a some lack of empathy and connection. If we become heavily invested it can mess with our sense of reality and trust, which is really hard for many of us after Mormonism.

My answer is not to invest more than I can afford in time, effort, and emotion. I certainly wouldn't invest money. If I can set some boundaries that way, it matters a lot less to me if the person is lying or not. I also don't think we have to be terribly hard on ourselves if we are fooled. Everyone can be taken in. Trust is part of how we build relationships and benefit from them and sometimes that trust gets abused.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2011 04:26PM by robertb.

"My answer is not to invest more than I can afford in time, effort, and emotion"


That's my mantra for self preservation. :)

I knew a terrible compulsive liar, who was a good friend I had to distance myself from. His lies always reinforced his status as "the victim" but never did much to make him look good or get him out of trouble. Our amateur psychology (see: took a lot of psych classes in college) theory was that he had a wicked case of Borderline Personality Disorder. No idea if that's accurate, but he definitely fit the mold.

I've had my doubts about this story for several weeks now, for reasons similar to others: Characteristics in the writing, the constant drama, the coincidences, and inconsistencies in some of the personality quirks. Largely, the never-ending drama became too protracted to believe.

So I keep asking myself why I didn't speak up. I suppose mainly it's not my business. Though I'm wary, very aware of the tricksters and frauds who play us, I figure it's better to keep the bar low so as not to chase off the truly vulnerable.

And I figured too that Susan I/S would catch on if there were anomalies in the IP addresses. Which is what has happened. It's happened before, and she finds them out in time.

The third reason reminds me of the Woody Allen joke in Annie Hall. It's the one about the guy who goes to the psychiatrist and says there's trouble in his family. His cousin thinks he's a chicken.

'That's terrible!' says the psychiatrist. 'Why don't you get him some help?'

And the guy says, 'We need the eggs.'

And so we went on here trying to believe. Face it. We love stories.

Lorraine who used to post as siog



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2011 04:31PM by lorraine.

...to be honest, I've gotten really weary of the posts, and just ignore them...however, I know a lot of people here have gotten pretty invested in "stormy's" story.

I've wanted to say something on multiple occasions, but since I don't really follow the story that much, I've just kept silent.

And remember there is a field where you can comment if you hit the REPORT button. But I don't get your mail addy that way so you can put it there if you want me to write you back or just send mail straight to ExMoLight@gmail.com. We never use registration email addys to write you either, we don't know if it is "safe" for you. If something seems odd to you, we discuss it off board. No harm no foul :)

Oh, and PS, that is exactly what happened Sunday, prompting me to look further into the issue. I do not have all the answers but I laid out the FACTS.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2011 05:02PM by Susan I/S.

Sometimes people play with ya to make you think your site (about leaving the LDS or getting people out of Mormonism) is really working. They enjoy all the excitement expressed when we rejoice with another individual saved. It also gives them a chance to create more and more of the story and get more giggles. Now I don't know if a recent incident has anything to do with my belief here. But some people just love playing with others.

LOL, I like Susan I/S's version. Reminds me of some books I've read that I wish I hadn't bought.

Just sayin'...

Ron

I can't find the first part of this thread--well, the closed thread.
I'm not sure what to think of this mess. I really believed it, and now I've got my doubts. Crap--this is like finding out the morg was all made up too!
Guess I'll go take a nap.

Susan

PS--to catch me up--who were Starbright and Mandy?

I believed it too. I was in the camp of who would make that stuff up? After seeing what Susan I/S has posted, not sure I do anymore. It's so wrong to mess with people like that and it makes me wonder what goes on in a persons head to think it's a good idea.

For the record. I am NOT think4you DIL. She mentioned that her DIL is in Idaho. Maybe Susan I/S can check my IP address and verify I am no where near Idaho. I've been here for nearly 8 years and only post occasionally, but that doesn't mean I'm a troll or impersonating anyone. I may not be an exmo, but it doesn't mean mormons haven't affected and continue to affect my life and the life of my family.

I am in the "I am not sure stormy is real boat." I felt this way for a while. First of all I noticed some similarities in her and Jake's writing styles, common mistakes, etc. Jake's writing does not seem like someone who has a doctorate degree. The story of his sister just seemed unbelievable. She was in a psychiatric hospital for just a few days and then she was on here posting like a "normal" person also with a very similar writing style, spelling mistakes, grammar problems as the other.

I was reluctant to voice my concerns just in case the story is true. Also I probably would have been attacked from many others on the board.

Now as I understand it, all the posts came from the same ip account even when the posters supposedly lived in different states. The whole "I was using her old phone" doesn't jive either. If I send an email from my phone the ip address is different than if I send it from my computer. I think it is different even if my phone is using my house wifi.

didn't rip into the Catholic proselytizing. I've found that kind of thing on their own web sites, and nailed someone posting on RFM pulling that trick, myself, in the past.

As far as the story goes, I think there is an element of truth to it. But, I have no idea where the truth ends. I am always skeptical, but also willing to give people the benefit of the doubt, especially on the Internet, that is, until they go over board.

Mormons being the "bad guys" and the Catholics being the "good guys" so to speak.

are drama queens and everything is blown out of proportion.

What sets off my red flags is when the OP reacts to drama by creating even more drama. My own reaction to drama queens is to turn and walk away, not to engage.

I don't think OPs who feed drama in their family need to be encouraged or praised for it. That bothered me in the whole saga.

Yeah, I think the story may be partly true, but I disagree with the Catholic proselytizing. I think Stormy either is a Catholic or made it part of her story. She mentioned it matter of factly and did n't seem to be either that devout or to be pushing it. She got a divorce, is living with Jake, left for a while and didn't seem to be pushing it on anyone.That doesn't sound like the tyoe of Catholic who is trying to push her religion. Who knows? It is hard to tell motive, but IMO it was more about attention and pride in getting away with it. Besides, Catholics, for the most part, don't proselytize and are in favor of living and letting live.

I did not lie to any of you ever and I never will. My writing style..i didn't know I had one. It's called fast and o sure make errors..I'll try to do better. I have not posted anything about jakes mom. She's been quiet and o have nothing to say about it. We are getting the bathroom redone, we have an old house, not a huge new expensive one..just an average house. Actually not average at all, below average compared to new homes now.

I'm truly sorry you feel this way..and no you won't see the bathroom on face book..and in case you're interested we're having stuffed peppers for dinner.

My sil is sorry for she did but can't post on her computer. She doesn't want me in any more trouble. She can I don't care but she won't.

You still think what you want. I'd probably feel the same way.

stormy

camouflage (to protect the family) but that's not the same as lying or making up a story.

I'm very confused now. I'm willing to believe that Stormy is who she says she is, (as she claims), but who is the real jake, does he exist, and is that story at least partially true, and why would a SIL have her phone and post when she knew it was logged in as someone else. That seems to be the problem with the story.

This story has all the elements of typical stories: the hateful MIL, the SIL with issues, the "alls well that ends well" remarriage of true love, everyone lives happily ever after as they are all on the same page with religion.
It's the typical faith promoting story.