Mom is still in ICU. She's talking to the walls and the ceiling, as if she is communicating with my dad who's been dead for nearly 30 years. Some of the conversations are quite spooky to me.

Of course, my TBM family members say he's coming to get her, the veil is thin, etc etc etc. The skeptic in me says it is her mind playing tricks on her. She has severe dementia and yet, these conversations are quite strong, articulate and a little freaky to me.

I'd really like your thoughts, o wise ones on RfM.

there quite possibly may be an afterlife - a spiritual parallel universe if you will. A place of peace and joy that we go to after our death. I believe there is, but I DO NOT believe that it has anything to do with TSCC. It is interesting that with severe dementia she is able to articulate rationale thought and conversation.

I come from a large family and there are quite a few accounts of Grandpa appearing in dreams to my mother or her siblings like he was just checking in to say hi. My coisin claims to have seen him in the delivery room just before her child died. Grandma started being mentioned in such dreams as well after she passed on about 30 years later. Hell when I was driving up to grandmas funeral by myself I was certain I could smell her and feel her presence in the truck for about a minute.

Whether or not there is an afterlife I don't claim to know. What I do know is that we experience reality through our brains. It is thought that our brains have the potential to record each experience that they process in one form or another. Based on those to things what is to stop our brains, given the right set of circumstances, from fabricating reality or at least from fabricating realistic experiences? Even assuming there is no afterlife I still find comfort in the latter notion of communicating with dead relatives via halucination. Afterall the information your brain used to greate the halucination ultimately came from a real experience had by the brain and it is using that as a way to find comfort from something familiar. To me it shows that somebbody who is lond dead can still have an every day influence on our lives.

When I was in the hospital having a hysterectomy, there was an elderly lady, who I think was dying of cancer. I restlessly wandered the halls a lot, because they told me if I got up and about, that the more I walked, the sooner I could go home.

When I'd return to my hospital room, the lady would speak to me. One time, she called me a hussy, leading her son astray. "I know about you and your type ..." I just sort of stared at her and got into bed, not knowing what to say.

Another time, she thought I was her son and told me how worried she was that I stayed out so late at night.

In the morning, it would all be forgotten. But she was definitely living in her own little world.

Although I've had some pretty interesting dreams, where I was visited by deceased loved ones and pets, which seemed pretty real to me. That doesn't mean I think they were real, but they definitely do feel different than other dreams.

After a visit from my Nana, my boss told me I was absolutely glowing and asked me what had happened to me. Then I felt as though loving arms were around me for the rest of the day. I never forgot that one.

And in those dreams, I'm always saying, "You're here! You're really here!" and I'll ask them how they are and if they're okay. It's not like dreaming you're out shopping with them or something. You're actually dreaming that they're visiting from beyond. It's really bizarre.

When my mother was dying in a nursing home, the woman in the bed next to her had severe dementia. She lay on her back all day, talking in a soft but clear and insistent voice to someone -- or to herself -- about the past. She had quite a conversation, recalling things, saying 'Yes you did' or something like that.

I would say this happens, that's it's part of dementia. If your family wants to place spiritual or other worldly significance on it, well, that's their perspective. But I imagine it's essentially that her brain is giving her images or bringing fresh memories so vividly she feels they are real and 'hears' in her mind the person(s) she is speaking to.

My experiences with a demented friend suggested that he had very strong hallucinations, lets call them, where things were happening that he was absolutely insistent were true that I couldn't see or hear. I'd imagine that's what's going on with your mother. The brain can do very funny things. It doesn't mean the 'veil is thin.'

Sorry you're having to go through this. It's hard. Hugs to you and to your mother.

Lorraine who used to post as síóg

Conversations with unseen dead people, or a brain misfiring as the body falls apart?

Funny to me that we know there is a brain. We know that is works by electrical impulses. We know that stimulating that organ can produce desired responses.

Yet when it comes to death, we're all too willing to throw that knowledge away and bank on a "parallel universe" where we will always be happy.

I can understand the desire for that, I really can. That's just people being human. However, I also realize that the things that I want so badly to be true, are the things that I must require the most evidence for.

I hear ya, and I see your qoute referring to my comment about a "parallel universe." As I said, it was just my humble opinion. You presume that folks like me are "all too willing to throw that knowledge away and bank on...." Hey, after being in a cult for 40 years, I don't bank on anything. I try to be as objective and critically minded as possible. For me personally, I have experienced evidence that leads me to believe there may be a realm that we are not fully aware of. Certainly, I agree that degenerating physiological processess can cause hallucinatory responses.

...I promise. The parallel universe hypothesis is just one I hear from people quite a bit to describe what they can't prove. It used to be that gods were on mountain tops, until we got there. Then they were in the clouds, until we got there. Then in space, until we got there. Now they are moved to other dimensions. It just seems like a classic moving goalpost to me.

But honestly, I meant no disrespect.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2011 09:38AM by omen.

I did have a few interesting things happen when my parents died and my aunt (who I was close to) died.

These people didn't have dementia. None of my relatives have died with dementia. All of them--including my cousin who was 3 days older than I--who died at age 37--saw people and talked to them. One was a friend from elementary school who had died of cancer.

I do believe in an afterlife--I can't say I KNOW there is one, but I lean that way.

Sorry to hear about your mother. Someone said after my parents died, doesn't matter how old you are, it is always tough to become an orphan. I can attest to that one.

My Dad talked to dead relatives the last week he was alive.
So did my Grandma. They were nonmembers and there was no one to bring them through the veil. This is typical end of life behavior. Ask the nurses, I'm sure they see it all the time.

I'm sorry that this is happening to you, loosing a parent is NOT easy!

I had dreams of my Grandma, Dad and Mom at various times after they died and I believe that it was a "visit" with a purpose. I know it sounds crazy, but that what I believe.

I dreamed that I was at a gathering of family and friends and when I look over at one group, my late husband was there, sitting with some friends and family and visiting with them. In my dream I turned to my daughter, who was with me, and said, "Dad looks really good, doesn't he?" (. . . 'for a dead guy' was absolutely what I meant). Then I joined the group and went to my husband and touched his arm, which was ice cold!

I awoke at that point. It was strange, and yet very comforting, as if he was there to let me know he was fine.

I had similar experiences with my mom as she was dying of cancer.

Her hospice caregiver was her sister who had been dead for 40 years.

She called me to come immediately to get her because she was getting married in the morning.

She suspected the flowers I sent her had "bugs" in them - not the creepy-crawly kind.

Being there for a parent at the end of their life is a stressful experience, but you will not regret it. Cyber hugs.

My TBM family does this as well. My aunt (who is in her 70s), recently fell down the stairs in her house and broke her ankle. She's doing great now, but in the first week or so she kept saying she had been talking to her dad a lot. Her dad died about 40 years ago.

They don't normally talk about speaking with dead relatives, just when someone is sick or going through something especially hard.

...I'm still waiting to be visited by my dead parents telling me to repent and return to the church.

That was one of the things that made me uneasy when my mother died. Oh no, what if se comes back to report Mormonism is the real deal? Then I'd have to go back to the church that had been destroying my mental health, or else suffer worse consequences for being an apostate.

When she never made an appearance, I jokingly thought it must be because she wasn't a priesthood holder, that Dad would need to be the one to deliver the awful news. But he has remained silent, too.

....there must be a lot of toilets to clean up there.

When one of my friend's grandmothers was in a nursing home, when they'd go to visit her, she'd go on and on about the adventures she'd had that day.

"So-in-so came and got me and we went to Disneyland, and ..." Of course, she'd never actually left her room, but she believed she'd actually gone on those adventures.

It's called being delirious. The last time I was at the hospital with my mother she was talking to my dad and sister. Only one problem, they're very much alive and were sleeping only a few miles away. I remember thinking at the time that if the people involved were dead rather than alive that some would say the "veil was thin" or something similar. I very much stopped believing the "veil is thin" stuff at that point, since it was clearly a case of being delirious and nothing more.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2011 11:20AM by knowitsfalse.

Misfiring... drugs.... they can all create things that aren't real.

A couple years ago I visited an old family friend in the hospital. She was absolutely sure birds were disturbing the movie-making going on outside. Nothing but a parking lot, actually.

My fav is when the baby stares off in the distance... and since the baby is fresh from the pre-existence, s/he is seeing dudes from the other side...

And my ex-MIL. She had a truckload of kids. Claimed each of them visited her from the pre-existence a la "please have me, I'm waiting!" Now just about all of them are dysfunctional, dependent, and reproducing like rabbits unto this and the next generation.

I've had lots of JW friends in the past. They don't believe in any type of pre-existence, and when you're dead, you're dead. Jehovah magically makes you re-live if you've been good. So, people in the JW paradigm NEVER see dead/disembodied people. Funny how that works. Sad, though, they miss out on the handshake thing to determine if the visitor is good or bad. They do see demons flying around on occasion though since that's doctrinally acceptable.

My TBM parents raised us to believe that no spirits visit us at all because they are too busy in the spirit world teaching all the heathens about the gospel so we can all be baptised or re-baptised.

I have had experiences myself, that I can not refute, to make me believe in an afterlife of sorts. I saw my brother after he passed away, before I was told he had passed. I've seen other loved ones also. My wife, son, and daughter have all had experiences themselves also.

My sister works in a nursing home and said this is normal, those who are about to pass away, talking to their deceased relatives, like they are there waiting to take them across to the other side.

I believe she could be talking with your father, but that is just my opinion of course. And it is not something I was raised to believe. My parents said when we died, we died, and the only time spirits came back was if it was with an important message from god, not just to check in and see if we are okay. I don't believe the same.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2011 01:00PM by nickerickson.

For those of you who have recently lost a loved one, or who are now coping with a dying friend or family member, I heartily recommend the book by two hospice nurses, "Final Gifts."

The nurses were at the bedsides of many dying patients over the years, and they saw the same process, which occurred no matter what faith or absence of faith the dying person had. There is no religious agenda in the book, whatsoever.

This book will help you, guide you, and give you peace in your grief.

Losing a loved one is excruciatingly painful. This book can help.

~VOW

My cat will jump, meow and scratch at the air in my living room but I've never seen my dead dad. He and I were closer than any father and daughter could ever be yet, he's never once appeared to me. Makes me think its all made up. I hope there is an after-life but there isn't anything I can do about it.

i'm a ICU nurse and patients that are dying always talk to people who have already passed. dad, mom, sister, best pal who died of leukemia in elementary school, jesus, allah, you name it. i've seen it with atheists and people of faith.

i'm an agnostic so i dont profess to know either way but i know that we can give you drugs to make you think & see all sorts of things. people hallucinate big time on morphine & dilaudid. the part of me who misses my deceased loved ones wants to say there's an afterlife but the rational logical part of me uses the KISS theory and thinks it's most likely the results of the neurons firing and petering out. the lack of oxygen to brain tissue probably produces some amazing hallucinations. i honestly think no afterlife is kinder, i can't imagine being dead & watching my husband marry another and raise our kids while i'm powerless to be a part of it. cruel. i'd rather be unawares...

We were told in her final days grandma mentioned seeing people on horses and Indians...she was born in 1905 in Oklahoma.

But the day my mother died, I was outdoors over a thousand miles away and distinctly heard her voice, she said my name. Ten minutes later I got the phone call.

On the fence, here.

I've had several experiences, one of which (my grandmother in the room when things started going wrong with the delivery of my daughter) I'm willing to chalk up to stress. On the flip side, though? I "saw" and hand dreams about my kids before they were born, and they were accurate. I don't know what to make of it, but it's special to me.

On the flip side, I have a MIL who regularly says all sorts of crazy things. While we were still living with them, she once asked me if there was a plump blond woman tied to my side of the family, because she'd seen her sitting in the chair in the corner that morning, and didn't recognize her. I decided to point out that the land we were living on used to be part of the old cemetery on the edge of the complex, and that based on what I'd read on their website, over 100 graves had not been found when it was consolidated. Freaked her out enough to have FIL bless the house again.

I agree with you that if there is an afterlife, it would not be better than what we have now. What if you had been married more than once and loved both spouses? Which one would you join afterwards? No pun intended, as I do not mean polygamy. I just mean that it would be complicated. It would also be difficult to watch my loved ones on earth suffer. I would want to intervene…

I have never personally seen a ghost, nor did my dad say anything about seeing his dead relatives when he was on his death bed. I agree that the brain does some crazy things when its shutting down so I can understand that what these dying people think they are seeing is most likely hallucinations. However, that does not explain the many stories of healthy people who are not on their death beds seeing ghosts or their dead relatives that have just passed.

I personally hope there is something more. The longer I live the more I think that death is the end. However, my grandkids see ghosts often. They are young (under age 10) and live in Gettysburg, PA where tons of ghosts sightings have been seen before due to the civil war battles there.

I do know that science says nothing dies or shall I say that energy never dies so could that apply to us perhaps? If there is something more, I doubt it has anything to do with a God or someone in command. That is manmade. Maybe it’s all about order?

when the brain is going through it's paces prior to death. They show that the brain has surges that are identical. It is repeated consistently.

It's common for the person to incorporate memory of prior relationships (some from deceased friends and relative), some in a lucid manner, and some not.

If we had some response from the deceased friends or relatives, the whole conversation could be validated, but of course, that is never going to happen.

Basically, it's the brain doing what the brain does at or near death.

My wife and I were invited to the opening of a pub.

As we sat enjoying our drinks a man on the next table was having a conversation with nobody, but he was pausing as if listening to someone. Eventually he excused himself and when he came back he said: "I'm sorry, but what did you say just before I went to the toilet?"

After waiting for the reply he said: "Oh, yes! That's right!" and carried on his conversation at the point where he had left off.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2011 06:08PM by matt.

I do believe in an afterlife.

I also happen to believe it definitely is better than what we have now.

Because of this, I do NOT believe in reincarnation. Reincarnation is not mathematically possible, but aside from that, who would want to return to THIS life?

There has been discussion on this board of other dimensions, parallel universes, existences beyond what we can perceive. These human bodies of ours are extremely restricted, and quite frail, especially when compared with the magnitude of space and time.

Simply put, we simply do not KNOW what happens to anyone after death, because we haven't had any "return and report" examples.

But when you look at the principles of physics, in that energy can never be destroyed, only transformed, my personal belief is that the energy of a human being is merely transformed at the moment of death.

~VOW



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2011 07:09PM by voweaver.

How exactly is reincarnation mathematically impossible? I've never heard this claim before.

whose deceased mother came to her in a dream when she was about to have hysterectamy (sp?) and told her not to do it yet because two more children were coming to her family. She held off on the procedure, got pregant almost immediately and had twins. Needless to say you can't convince her that it wasn't a real visit from her mom in another realm.

Bottom line, if you believe in an afterlife these are very rational events. Why wouldn't a loved one escort you in to eternity.

If you're a skeptic it's easy fodder. Nonsense.

I believe it's for real and not really all that spooky, strange, etc. Pretty logical.