I remember when a number of you said, she'll never change just tone it down it before she goes off again.
Well she did in a lovely email early this morning.

For whatever reason she had decided that she had been told...I Have No Idea Who told her what...not to accept jakes conversion and she should not condone our remarriage. Furthermore, if he does not come back to the church she is done with him his brother and his sister should she leave the church.

He has no idea wtf is going on. Awhile back when decided to try again...one night just journaled a bit, lupus my thoughts together....i had written his mom still not allow this marriage to happen. Some now some way she'd try and stop it.

What parent, except mine who did the same thing, but st least you knew where you stood...no guessing...who does this after saying she's accepted it.

Jake is speechless at this..me furious that she's doing it again..

I guess push has come to shove. I'm done making excuses, done wondering what will happen next, just done with it all. There may or not be a wedding depending on decisions made in the next few days. I'm stepping back to see what happens. All I know it's happening again...

stormy

and maybe I did. You don't have to answer her calls and you can also block her e-mails. My ex's mother started calling me and keeping me on the phone for hours (6-1/2 at one time)--AFTER HE LEFT ME. I NEVER answer the phone unless I want to. I also block e-mails regularly from people who abuse the privilege.

I said before that my excellent exmo therapist told me to quit responding to my mother's tantrums--that at first they would escalate and then they would calm down. They did. It worked. He told me to decide what I could do for my parents and only do that (being a single mother). It also worked. He told me that if I responded to my mother's tantrums, I was a bad daughter--that I was rewarding her bad behavior. I had never thought of it that way. I was around 48 years old at the time. My parents are both dead now, but it really helped me deal with them the last few years of their lives.

Jake's mom has passive-aggressive down to a science. I've noticed mormons do this a lot--they act passive while they are doing their bargaining with God and when God doesn't step in and perform the miracle QUICKLY, they go ballistic and start trying to control again. As long as you continue to engage her, she will continue to cause problems.

>Jake's mom has passive-aggressive down to a science.
> I've noticed mormons do this a lot--they act passive while
> they are doing their bargaining with God and when God doesn't > step in and perform the miracle QUICKLY, they go ballistic
> and start trying to control again.

and its the kids who get trashed when Jesus fails to perform through them. it turns out to be an impossible situation for them, because a person can NEVER be good enough to please these maniacs!


What the Hell is it with MORmONS ? oh,thats right they are control freaks and they are EVIL. SOme one needs to tell these freaks that even though they are sealed to their offspring & they refer to them as "my children" that offspring are not actual possessions, especially when the kids hit adulthood.

from what I have seen there are far too many MORmONS that would love to be in abraham's situation so they could show him up by going ahead and plunging the knife into their kin on the altar even after the Lord said it wasnt really needed.

"not a problem lord! I'll sacrifice my child anyway! I am glad to sacrifice anything & everything (except for my status as a good member) for you! if the rams still around & you still want it done too we will just make it a double sacrifice, all for you old pal, Christ buddy!"

these kind of ppl make me sick! I had one as a parent. I was a text book perfect little MORmON (fully conceding there were others out there too) and the more perfect I was the harder my Insane MORmON parent was to please.

(from a big fan of your posts/comments for sometime now)

End all contact with her. You and Jake are adults, which she seems to ignore.

yes storm, you have said you are done with her before. She can't get past her busybody Mo friends filling her head with their drivel, she will keep doing this every Monday (cuz church is Sunday of course).

Kiss Kiss Goodbye...

Oh, and I think you should get married.

you and Jake need to be done with her..... y'alls relationship is more important.... too bad Jake cant have his Mom around no mo!! BTW how is his dad dealing???

So many of he interactions I see on this board involve someone choosing to leave the church and ending up constantly on the defensive, constantly reacting to the manipulative behavior of others.

You are both strong, intelligent people. Take control of your own lives and get back on the offensive side. You decide what choices you are going to make and you establish the rules of how people get to interact with you. She has given up her right to be an active part of this relationship because of her unethical behavior. When she demonstrates the ability to interact appropriately, you may revisit the idea.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2011 07:09PM by pista.

"There may or not be a wedding depending on decisions made in the next few days. I'm stepping back to see what happens."

Are you saying that you are giving her control over whether or not you two get married again? Why?

Ask Jake to look up in the DSM-IV as to what his mother's condition is - I'm sure she fits several of the criteria of more than a few conditions listed there. In laymen's terms, she's crazy (my mother was the same way for several years before she died).

The consensus of the advice offered here is correct - shut her off from your family; she's poisonous and destructive. You and your family do not need that.

I would ignore the email or you could reply that you are sorry she feels that way but her opinion has no bearing on your plans. Jake is a Catholic and you are getting remarried whether she approves or not.. you may want to cut off contact. If not, ignore the rudeness and respond only when she acts appropriately. You don't need this drama.

Why would the wedding be canceled because of a mother of the groom? I'm pretty sure you have said that you and Jake are paying for it all yourselves.

Is it because Jake should cut off his mother? I'm just trying to understand. My mom would have to do something pretty horrible(more horrible that what his mom is doing) for me to cut her off completely.

Stop talking to her. If you don't have it, get caller I.D. Talk to his father then when it is her turn hang up. Tell her directly that she is now dictating the limited contact and it will continue indefinitely.

You are not going to change her. She is not going to all of the sudden start accepting you. Stop caring if she does. How will her not accepting you affect your daily life?

Let me be a little harsh...completely from an outsiders view: It seems that you and Jake are adding to the drama. You are giving her power by being upset. Just stop caring. You don't love her like a parent, should be easy to do. Jake will probably always want to still be in contact with her. You and Jake can have separate interests and friends right?

bingoe4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why would the wedding be canceled because of a
> mother of the groom? I'm pretty sure you have
> said that you and Jake are paying for it all
> yourselves.
>
> Is it because Jake should cut off his mother? I'm
> just trying to understand. My mom would have to
> do something pretty horrible(more horrible that
> what his mom is doing) for me to cut her off
> completely.
>
> Stop talking to her. If you don't have it, get
> caller I.D. Talk to his father then when it is
> her turn hang up. Tell her directly that she is
> now dictating the limited contact and it will
> continue indefinitely.
>
> You are not going to change her. She is not going
> to all of the sudden start accepting you. Stop
> caring if she does. How will her not accepting
> you affect your daily life?
>
> Let me be a little harsh...completely from an
> outsiders view: It seems that you and Jake are
> adding to the drama. You are giving her power by
> being upset. Just stop caring. You don't love her
> like a parent, should be easy to do. Jake will
> probably always want to still be in contact with
> her. You and Jake can have separate interests and
> friends right?

+1 It is Jake's decision whether he cuts his mother off. I wouldn't demand that he choose between you, but I would limit the contact she has with you personally. Let Jake deal with it. Sit down, discuss it and make some rules on how to deal with it.Don't let her bother you. Her feelings don't change facts. Be the bigger person and let Jake see that you are.She can't make Jake rejoin the church and she can't stop the wedding unless you let her. The only thing she can do is refuse to accept it or attend and that is her problem. Don't make it yours.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2011 12:41AM by bona dea.

Jake writes back something along the lines of

"Dear Mom, if you feel it necessary to break off communication with your children, that's up to you."

...that you're allowing the LDS church to dictate what your emotions will be."

Excellent suggestions, all.
Heartily agree from way over here on another continent.....

Stormy, you don't need to be reading any mail or taking any phone calls from her at all. You don't need to be having any conversations with her for at least the next 2-3 months. You need some healing time.

When I was in a similar situation, here is what was recommended to me (and it REALLY helped) that you might want to consider:

**Send a weekly email about our family happenings to my siblings, moms and dads on all sides. Keep it upbeat. Keep it simple. But SEND it EVERY week. So we chose Saturday as the day to send it. If you don't want to write it, assign it to the boys to do.
**Put a bunch of the kids' schoolwork and pictures/artwork in a manila envelope and send it off to the grandparents to look at. Take the focus off you and Jake and put it onto the kids.
**Allow no phone calls AT ALL for several months. All communication had to be via email, then at least you and they have more time to THINK about what's being said.
**"Honor your father and mother" is important, I agree, and cutting them out of your life sounds good, but probably isn't realistic. You probably fell in love with Jake with his love for his family being one of the qualities you loved about him, right? There's been so much pain, I'd be careful about any ultimatums at this point as you guys need to just focus on being happy together. Email was the key to helping out our family drama.

I hope and pray you guys find peace and restoration soon.

My mother once said she wished she'd never had children. She was having a pity party over something. I told her I could arrange that.
My point is this: if she keeps this up, she will alienate Jake and his siblings, and possibly their dad. She can squeal and holler and carry on, but it might be a good idea for the sibs to "unionize" and stand firm against her. She's either going to realize what she's losing, or she's not going to have any family.
I'm sorry you're having to still deal with this. Good luck.
Susan

I've enjoyed reading your story on thid board, it is really a wonderful love story.

I want to comment on Jake's mom's behaviour how I see it from the eyes of a former TBM mother. She is going through emotional ups and downs because of the internal conflict of loving her children and loving the gospel. She probably thinks I love my son, I want him to be happy and she tries to be nice, until she goes to church where the talks, the lessons and the testimonies are about the eternal family and saving your family from the world. Those who have been active in the church know the stories of reactivation and the stories of perfect, eternal families that are heard every week. This is when she goes mental, she must save her children. Especially now that Jake's sister is leaving the church too, she is under greater pressure to save them. She will try nice, she will tryig loving, she will try assertive and even aggressive. She will even try giving up and that won't last either, she will be back and humble. She will try whatever she hears at Church. But no matter what she will be back at the roller coaster, the emotional roller coaster. It is a horrible state to be in, but it is a real one. I know I've been there and have seen many women be there as well.

I'd say try to see these ups and downs as just that, ups and downs. Oh she is in a nice up-state now, we'll say hi. Oops, she is in a down-aggressive state today, tell her to call back when she is in a better mood.

TBM mothers don't see the pain they cause, I only realized that pain when I read the stories and feelings of those of you who were raised in the church wanting a different path. Maybe share those stories with her or have Jake write his own especially for her.

Good luck to all of you,

Not that my sympathy for Jake's mother's pain (which is pretty much all self-inflicted) means that I think Jake and Stormy shouldn't take her up on her threat to cut off the family.

I'm not sure why her behavior should stop the wedding, as that's between Stormy and Jake, not Stormy and Jake and Jake's mom and dad. I do think it's entirely appropriate for either Stormy or both Stormy and Jake to tell Mom -- "Okay, you had your chance, I'm done." and leave it at that -- no contact for at least six months. However, the Dad doesn't seem to have done anything except ignore Mom's behavior so I'd still allow him interaction if he initiates it. (I wouldn't call Dad as that gives Mom access.)

Sorry this is happening, Stormy. Wishing you the best.

I think all of the comments so far have been excellent, so I couldn't really add much to them. But I agree with the sentiment that as long as you let her continue to do this, you're simply encouraging and enabling her behaviour. I do believe that only you and Jake can stop it, by simply not responding to it.

Why on earth would you let her determine whether or not you get married?

People have no more control over our lives than we are willing to give them. If we, as adults, let someone ruin our lives, then we have indeed allowed them to.

LOL she certainly is not passive, just aggressive.

You need to cut these people out of your lives, anytime you give an inch you will pay for it dearly.

Also, keep in mind that lousy parents are usually lousy grandparents too.
Wishing for them to be the ideal family won't make it so.

Well, now can't say you weren't warned.
If you want your marriage to succeed do not keep inviting evil spirits ( the family) into it.

You and Jake should get married and have Jake's sister, brother, bro & sis-in-law, all the nieces & nephews *and* Jake's Dad and have a beautiful, wonderful wedding. If Jake's mother wants to write off her own children (and now grandchildren, too) on the advice of a bunch of cackling Mormon harridans,let her. It's her loss.

You guys have had enough of this drama queen who puts the dictates of a cult before her own family.

Just what does she think will happen if Jake doesn't marry you? Does she really believe he'd return to the LDS Church and marry a Mormon girl? It's absolutely crazy that someone wouldn't prefer that the parents of the children be married, if even just for the childrens' sake. It's crazy.

I don't give her power over me...this email was not to me but to jake...I'm just the cause of it all. Didn't think about her fueling up at church on sunday but you're so right..that's foreign to me since we don't hear these things at church. Just following what we hear at church gets me into constant trouble with her..just being kind causes me grief.

Jake has to tell his mom what the rules are and stick to them...I'm totally done with it all. Her waffling is her way of control..so let her use it somewhere else.

I'm going to what you all from experience have suggested..no negioations..she won't be sitting in living room invisible but here.

Maybe, just maybe I don't know if jake still take such a tough stand. How easy is it to cut your mom out of your life? I had no trouble with it..they excluded me and that was it. I never went back. I don't know of jake can do that and it may just come to that.

He can read all your ideas which are excellent. Then decide what to do. I've had it with ask the crap..which if my fault too got continuing to give chances when I shouldn't have. I'll take my share of the blame got her behavior. Done with it..

stormy

Stormy, my advice is not to demand that Jake cut his mother off completely. He loves you and might well do it, but I suspect he would resent it and that could cause problems down the line. I don't know if that is what you are doing, but if so, I would think about it. As far as demanding that Jake deal with his mother and demand that she observes some boundaries that is certainly something you should do. You'll need to do some negotiating on that. In the meantime, don't get so upset. She cannot stop the wedding or make Jake a Mormon.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2011 12:42AM by bona dea.

I talked about the same issue on the thread about Jake's sister.
When a person has been through something this traumatic and divisive before, the natural reaction is to throw up the shields fast and hard. I don't get the feeling that this is quite the case with you.
However, this is extremely sensitive to you and as hard as it might be, it is always beneficial to TRY to look at the situation objectively in order to look for things you may otherwise be blind to.
This is undoubtedly as difficult for each of you as it is for the other, and both of you seeing the others point of view, trying to do so without emotion (which is running very high right now) might unveil things you aren't quite seeing at this point.
No matter what, letting go seems more difficult for Jake than for you. Feeling torn makes it so much more difficult when this is your personality.

I've been following your story for several months now. It's like "Day's of Our Lives." (lol)

I remember several posts back when Your MIL attended a Mass at your church and your kids explained it to her as it went along.

Your MIL didn't seem to react too negatively to your grandkids explaining the faith. She was probably impressed by their knowledge, and my goodness, it sounds like you are raising your kids well.

I'd say let MIL come to the wedding without conditions. She will see a beautiful wedding ceremony and she won't see any Baker's Cap on the groom and the green apron. Have a most beautiful solo sung, and your boys if they have any participation, they will act in most dignified way as possible but full of joy that their mother and father are expressing a love beyond all comprehension. One of them could be the crucifer leading their two favorite people down the aisle. How proud of a moment could that be? And let second son swing the thurifer within a inch of his Mormon grandmother's nose.

I see all kinds of possibilities to make the day less stressful for your MIL, well, mabye except the incense in the nose thing.

I personally love the incense up by her nose..was sort of thinking of another place for it...

You're right of course..let her see a real wedding and ignore any questionable behavior.
Kake doesn't need to cut his mom out of his life just out of our lives. If that makes any sense at all.

stormy

stormy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I personally love the incense up by her nose..was
> sort of thinking of another place for it...
>
> You're right of course..let her see a real wedding
> and ignore any questionable behavior.
> Kake doesn't need to cut his mom out of his life
> just out of our lives. If that makes any sense at
> all.
>
> stormy

If she comes to the wedding, I would see if I could get someone to act as a keeper of sorts for her and try to keep her out of mischief and out of your way as much as possible. You don't need her pulling this at the wedding.As far as the incense up he nose or other places, I doubt your priest will go for it.LOLIt would be fun though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2011 01:10AM by bona dea.

This whole thing with the MIL brings to mind a recurring theme here. I wonder what exact sorts of mental illness the morg induces? She's fine, she's not, she's fine, she's not!

Actually, Stormy, if he can seperate things that would be the best way to handle things right now. He needs to make the decision that is best for him and accept whatever her response happens to be.

I have been looking at this situation for 10 years now. Objectively, subjectively no matter how you look at it, it comes down she absolutely hates that I married her son the first time and am marrying him again. The fact that he failed to marry a nice Mormon girl in the interim is just fuel for her many fires. I don't need to her to like me, love, or anything else...just leave me alone period. No more insults. You have no idea of what she has done and said..during our marriage..including who is the father of the boys. Yep, that's in her arsenal also. I have been more than kind and forgiving. That is done now. Jake can talk with his Mom whenever he wants, I can't.

All her ups and downs and this and that wears me out. It doesn't matter what you do or how you do it...it's wrong. I really wish I never met her ever. She poisons everything around her and the worse part is it's catchy. I'm a kind person and she changes that in an instance. Sure I'm incredibly stubborn and independent, I had to be both. But unkind, no..that's not me, not ever. But for her I'd make a big one time exception.

My parents weren't any better especially my father. But they didnh't change and so I knew where I stood. I truly wish they could of known their grandsons but it wasn't to be. They are gone and I miss them and what could of been maybe.

No I don't expect that from his Mom. We will never be shopping or gossip buddies. I don't need that from her. I have friends for that. What I need from her is to respect us. And to that end. I'm doing what everyone hear said to do. No talking to her, no emails period. I don't want to know what's going in her mind. Just so she leaves me alone...as in don't talk with me for a long time. I can't deal with her now.

Jake and I have discussed this, he knows what I mean. He told me he will deal with it and I believe that he will.

stormy

I was just thinking. What if she's feeling more out-of-control of the situation than ever because now the sister is leaving too? Perhaps she's freaking out about that and feels she's really lost control of everything, she is trying to tighten the screws.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2011 09:23PM by Greyfort.

Yes she is spot on. And what do they do for this? Right now it seems like I'm the one in her little spotlight. All her behaviors sure fit in, one after another. Is there a category for just plain mean?

stormy

stormy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes she is spot on. And what do they do for this?
> Right now it seems like I'm the one in her little
> spotlight. All her behaviors sure fit in, one
> after another. Is there a category for just plain
> mean?
>
> stormy

I think there is more going on here than church stuff. She sounds like she has some emotional problems. Mormonism can certainly make those tendencies worse, but there are a lot of TBMs who wouldn't act that way no matter how badly they wanted their kids to remain faithful and marry in the church.There are some who would too. Her behavior is over the top for even the most fanatical. My mother was pretty TBM, but she would never have acted like that. Sounds like MIL needs some therapy.

It's like she can't help herself. Right now Storm and I are her targets. I talked with my brother and Mom went after him like a bull terrier and she wouldn't let go. She laid every bit of guilt on him when he went inactive. He told she never stopped hounding him. He finally did what you all said to do. Mom, this is the way it will be and if you can't handle it well then we can't talk to each other now. Let me know when you have somethng else to say to me. Of course he had to do this over and over again and it sort of finally sunk in.

When her goldhaired son, Jake, defected she was out of control. First his marrying storm was like a slap in her face. His hs girlfriend waited two years of college and two years of his mission for him to marry her and he didn't. He didn't love her and wouldn't do it. Mom was besides herself. I'm sure she heard it from the ward gossips that it was awful what Jake did. Those old crones pour gas on the fire and thenstand back and watchit flare. Then he goes far away from the Morridor to college, meets and marries a Catholic girl. Shit hit the fan. She was unkind to storm beyond words. We all felt sorry for her. Storm worked while she was here and that was a no no and as a Paramedic, so unlady like and she had to wear pants. She hated storms clothes, she hated her education, she hated her confidence, name it and she hated it but most of all she hated that Storm took Jake away. She was overjoyed when they divorced and took credit for the whole thing. I don't think Jake knows this. But when he went back to storm, she got worse.

Now she's dealing with Jake as a Catholic and me not going to Church. If she could smack us all upside the head I bet she would do just that. She is guilting me big time as usual. It makes me waiver just a bit until my dh soothes the doubts. He's good at chasing them away.

So don't blame Stormy, she has tired so hard to do the right thing in all this but she can't. Mom won't let her. It's sad but true.

And learns some boundaries?

I think as long as she can bounce from one child to the next to the next she'll continue this behavior longer. If you all lay down the line at once, well I can't make any promises but I'm betting Mom might just shape right up.

Just a thought -- feel free to reject it. (And me -- people always reject me. sniff, sniff) ;)

Only you can stop this insanity. It may mean you stop the marriage as well. You and Jake have a good relationship now but as long as he continues to interact with his parents (especially his mom) it will wear on what you and Jake have created. His mom will forever be in your marriage and your lives if you (and especially Jake) allow it.

You won't solve mom issues no matter how much you love her and want things to be different, Loving from a distance without phone calls/emails/texts, etc., is the most you can do unless you don't mind Mom's attitudes and toxicity continuing to envelope your lives.

When you answer her calls, respond to emails or texts or in anyway respond to her, you are feeding the dragon. I suggest you BOTH stop doing that immediately. Life is too short to give your energy to something that is trying to destroy you. JMHO



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2011 01:15AM by dane.