Hi. I am neither a Mormon nor an ex-Mormon, just a random person trying to write a silly little paper hoping you could answer a question or ten regarding missionaries and their circumstances.

When Mormon young men go on missions do they get any say in where they go? Where all is it possible to be sent; is there a map online of missionary geographies? What I most want to know is what are the most ridiculously awful places to be sent in terms of remoteness and danger? Can a white guy from Utah wind up a 10 hour bus ride from the nearest town in Madagascar? I have heard they can actually be sent places where there is no cash economy, but I am looking for concrete examples of where they can be sent.

Also, regarding tithing, are converts in developing nations expected to tithe? Do missionaries tend to struggle with the ethics of promoting tithing in impoverished societies?

Thanks

Apparently a computer at the church looks as the qualifications of a missionary and assigns a mission that has planned vacancy. Then someone at church HQ prays to be sure he has no funny feelings about the assignment. Then form letters are sent. It is uncanny how often the "computer" assigns the attractive female missionaries to temple square. UNCANNY!

http://www.mission.net/ has lists of missions. The boundaries change from time to time, so not sure how you'd get a map. Some missions cross several regions beyond their "home" region. However, each mission is organized. They do not overlap and you are not allowed to cross the boundaries in to another mission.

Stories of missionaries being sent to extremely remote places seems rare. I know of a missionary in my home ward that had his 24 month mission extended 10 months because he was able to learn several dialects among natives tribes in South America (I can't recall his specific mission). The villages were remote enough he had to backpack in. He didn't wear a white shirt and tie. His father showed me pictures of him on the trail. Shorts and a t-shirt. Still had the missionary tag though.

This missionary's father was my scout leader. His Dad was a highly skilled outdoorsman. His son was similarly experienced. The reason for the unusually long extension was that they had a hard time getting other missionaries who could do it. I guess they had a replacement for him, but that guy ended up getting really sick so he had to train a new guy. He was assigned a local resident to be his companion and guide who helped locate remote villages. I guess he needed a local resident so that he did not get killed in the process (which they apparently might do if you're a white guy from Utah walking around). I talked to him a few years ago, and he said that they have two native born missionaries in that area now.

Yes, everyone is expected to pay tithing as a basic tenant of the doctrine. If you don't make a cash income, you're expected to give 10% of your "increase" (chickens, cows, grain, etc).

Mormons believe that paying tithing will bring you blessings from God. In fact, many LDS believers feel this is one of the most concrete personal 'proofs' that God is watching out for you. If this is your belief, then you want to encourage others to pay their tithing so that God will bless them. Especially so for those that are poor or impoverished.

I can't answer all your questions but I can answer a few. Mormon young men and women have no say where they are sent on their missions. You fill out an application, which outlines some of what you've accomplished and you also have an interview with the bishop of your congregation, who writes a recommend and that might also give some clues on what kind of mission would be a good fit for you. I was fluent in Spanish and had lived in Great Britain and Mexico when I applied to go on a mission and I know my bishop wrote a lot about how well I would do in a European mission, how adaptable I was to foreign cultures etc. Because my bishop was trying to get me a cool mission assignment so he played up those qualities in his report - at least that is what he told me. It worked. I was sent to Spain. But I had no choice. Oh, by the way, most men go on a mission when they are 19 - women aren't allowed to go on missions until they are 21. Their first priority is to get married young. If that doesn't happen, they can go on a mission if they really want to. It isn't encouraged though in the general Mormon culture. But it is respected when girls choose to go.

Others on this board can cover some of the awful places missionaries are sent. Most missionaries are young, naive and feel invincible because they truly believe that they are God's chosen servants and that God and Angels are protecting them. Often, even in good missions like mine that are relatively safe and cultured, missionaries aren't told of the dangers they are facing. Missionaries are forbidden to read "worldly" materials such as newspapers and magazines and are not allowed to watch television or listen to the radio. Therefore, they are often clueless to the dangers around them. Members in the area try to inform the missionaries about local culture and local dangers but it's a very imperfect system. In my mission, two sister missionaries were raped and I never heard a word about it until after the mission. The mission president, who is generally a middle aged man assigned to run the missionary work in a given geographic area, moved those sister missionaries out of their city and reassigned them. But they didn't get counselling and were advised not to go home because everyone would know and they would be looked down on for not finishing their missions. So missions everywhere are made more dangerous and traumatic by the policies and rules that govern missionary life.

Finally, even in developing nations, converts are expected to tithe. By tithe, they mean 10 percent of your GROSS income. This is a terrible burden in poor countries, as you can imagine, and some missionaries are bothered by it but most are taught that tithing is an act of faith and if you give money to the Lord first, the Lord will bless you with the money you need - when you need it. Poor people are encouraged to tithe because there is almost a belief that tithing will lead them out of poverty because of the blessings associated with it. One of the so-called apostles of the LDS church told a story of a poor man who paid his tithing with his gold fillings because he loved the Lord so much he was willing to sacrifice his teeth. The apostle was trying to point out how that showed true faith. That same apostle probably arrived in the country where the story took place in the first class section of an airplane, and stayed either in hotels or with member families where he was treated like royalty. And the money from selling the teeth probably went to build one of the gaudy Mormon temples, or finance the $4 billion dollar shopping mall going in in Salt Lake City or buy land for the church's corporation arm.

Hope that answers some of your questions and that others post links and stories about the other things you asked about. Good luck with your paper.

No, they don't have a say in where they go. They put in their application to Salt Lake. Then in a few weeks they receive a letter telling them where they will be going and when to show up for training.

There are a number of missions in the world. Try googling ldsmissions.net - that might be the place that lists all the missions where former missionaries can keep up with their former work locations. The LDS church would like to be ALL over the world, but some countries still will not allow them in.

There are some very remote places and some pretty dangerous places. They believe that God will protect them because they are doing the Lord's work.

Everybody is expected to pay tithing, no matter what their circumstances.


How do I know? I was a full time missionary for the LDS church. It is not just young men who go. I went as a 24 year old young woman. They also send senior citizen married couples. Look at the story boards on this site for more stories about missionary experiences.

When my sister's son sent in his application, my sis and BIL added to it that they would not support a mission in any of the South American countries due to political situations, etc. (I don't remember all the details.) He was called to South Africa. This was in the early 80's.

Of course, there is no way of knowing how much of a difference their comment made -- just sayin'

If the parents won't pay it means someone at church has to step up to the [collection] plate.

Plus: I don't think the choice of Paris, France as an 18-month vacation...er, mission destination for Elizabeth Smart was any coincidence, either.

Just sayin'.

Gosh, THANK YOU THANK YOU for those detailed and rapid responses. I am truly grateful. My eyes are still bugging out at some of the sentences I just read. Wow.

I don't have time to give you a detailed reply, because in a short while I am off to pick up my son from the hospital where he has been receiving treatment for problems he picked up on his mission. He's been home two and a half years. He has also got permanently damaged eyesight bedause of his mission president insisting that 'his' elders shouldn't wear sunglasses, even though they were in the tropics. He also had surgery last year to remove a pre-malignant melanoma. Guess that's what happens when a boy with pale irish skin spends too much time outside in the tropics. Next month he has to have another mole removed, those garments obviously didn't do their job.

Also he has been diagnosed with PTSD, again because of events that happened on his mission. He is receiving top quality therapy, thank god ( well not him exactly, but you know what I mean). His therapist is horrified at the way the church treated him. His bishop advised him to give up this good therapy which he is lucky enough to be receiving at one of the top hospitals in the world, and to have church sponsored therapy instead. Luckily my son said a firm 'No'.

So when you go on a mission, your life can be seriously screwed. BTW my son served somewhere so remote they had to cross large (vv large) rivers by small canoe, and drive down tiny rain forest tracks to reach their 'town'.

The events that 'European view' wrote are very alarming. I think it should be stressed more often the dangers there are in serving missions in countries other than your own. By this I mean dangers from those in charge. A missionary is old enough to know if he needs to wear sunglasses or not, not have some pompous idiot tell him what to do.
To European View - I hope your son makes good progress with his health issues.
To st.louis - I'm not sure what your paper is for but I hope it contains the things that can go wrong and that it doesn't just contain pretty, pretty things about LDS missions
Still disgruntled even though I've been out 5 yrs.

Thanks freedomissweet. During a long talk in the hospital with my son's wife, she told me she didn't think she had a testimony and that she had written a long letter to Monson detailing the problems caused to young men and women by their missions. I doubt it will do any good, but I was astonished and delighted that she felt the way she did. I know my son also, not surprisingly, has serious problems with the church, so I'm, hoping they could be out within a year or so. The last of our large family to be so.

I'm also hoping for a happy resolution to my son's health problems - don't have anyone to pray to any more, so hope science can do it instead.

To European view - glad to hear that your son's wife is taking positive action. You never know what difference it could make. Just posting it on this site could have an effect upon someone who is still unsure what to do.
You say you don't have anyone to pray to now - I am still a christian even though the morg messes with your mind - so all I can say is that keeping all the things in your mind that you would like to happen for your son (and other things) can help. Sorry don't want to preach to you but our minds are powerful things. That's why they can be messed with. Stay positive and supportive. Keep us posted on his health and membership plans.

I don't have time to write much, but white male mormons from Utah can indeed be sent to Madagascar. They can't choose where they go, but when you fill in your missionary application forms, there are a few things you can do to increase or decrease your chances of going to certain places.

The rare occasion in which a missionary can choose where he or she goes is if they're related to a Mission President, or higher. I happen to actually be related to a Mission President, so if I wanted to go on a mission, I could ask him to request me for his mission. It's apostles and general authorities who choose where who goes, so he basically just has to e-mail one of them.

It is strongly encouraged by the church to pay tithing, but if you don't, they can't, and won't force you. I know that some missionaries find it difficult teaching tithing. It's one of the things that they have to teach before someone gets baptized (if they don't, they're breaking the rules), and some missionaries I've spoken to have said that it's always the bit where they teach tithing that the investigator decides not to get baptized. Infact, they say that tithing seems more troublesome to the investigators than polygamy.

Members in developing countries are supposed to pay tithing too, but obviously they pay less. The church has a LOT of money, so if people end up in poverty, the church can give money to the members, but only if they pay their tithing. It's ridiculous, I know. It's literally paying money to the church, and getting it back a week later, although sometimes the church gives you more than the tithing you pay, if you're really poor. My family have been given money by the church before.

The son of a family friend is currently on a mission to the Congo, and he'll be coming home soon. He's a very white young man from Northern Utah, so I'm interested to hear how he did in the middle of Africa. The only story I heard while he was away involved another missionary developing a large sore on his body, only to discover that an insect had laid eggs under his skin.

I served in Congo for the US govt between 2005 and 2008, and during that time they had four young white American guys and one Africa-American guy (can you believe an African-American serving an LDS mission?), and they wouldn't assign them anywhere but in Cameroon. Cameroon is in the same mission, but less nasty than either DR Congo or Republic of Congo. The mission also included Gabon and Central African Republic, but they had no missionaries there. And it could be that they are assigning white kids to the recently opened Congo-Lubumbabshi mission--I don't know about that one.

Anyway, when I left in 2008 they were entertaining the idea of putting some American missionaries in Pointe-Noir, southern Republic of Congo, where a lot of Europeans go on holiday. But to put them in Kinshasa, Lubumbashi, or Brazzaville would have been scary indeed. Instead, they used expendable native Africans for the truly awful places.

if you don't pay tithing, you can't get a recommend to go to the Mormon temple. If you don't have a recommend to go, you will not be allowed in a Mormon temple. Only in the temples are people "sealed" to their spouses, parents and children forever. If you don't have these special ceremonies performed, ceremonies that are only done in the temple for tithe paying members, you'll never see your family again after you die. Or so they teach. So basically, they hold your family hostage with the threat that if you don't pay tithing, you'll lose your family forever.

If you believe in Mormonism that is some pretty extreme extortion to get your money. Not force but close enough to it.

My white/blond nephew from Idaho was sent to Dominica Republic.
He ended up with some kind of worms or intestinal problems and was skinny when he came home after his 2 year committment.

He and his companions were burglarized often....it's such a poor country with such poverty that the missionaries appeared rich.

He never complained.
He did e-mails. (even to me his apostate aunt but he didn't preach to me)

Good luck with your studies

My little brother got called to the Phnom Penh Cambodia Mission. My dad found it pretty funny, since he's a baby boomer and wanted to do everything he could not to go that region of the world. All in all, it was a great experience for my brother and really opened up his eyes. He did have the experience of being robbed and was really shocked when the police invited him to watch the flogging of the person responsible.

Thank you again so much everyone. European view so sorry to hear about your son.

This little paper I am writing is actually for a course focused primarily on Tibetan Buddhism. The Dalai Lama and the top (probably) TB guru in the US (Robert Thurman) have argued that large proselytization movements are a violation of human rights and should be stopped.

In the Mormon example I intend to illustrate problems not only with targets for conversion but with missionaries themselves. It's well documented that human beings develop in a number of ways -- physically, cognitively, etc... and the final area is ethically. Ethical development is not nearly complete before one's mid twenties. Thus IMO it is morally incorrect to send men and women younger than that out to proselytize.

I tried to word things delicately here because I don't know that much about Mormonism, to be honest. I have met a Mormon once and remember he said something about God talking to a man in New York. (?) I don't want to be offend anyone here, being a random outsider. No offense but outside of Utah Mormons are considered obscure and cultish by many people.

Anyway, thank you again! I really appreciate these replies. I have learned a lot and am excited to write about and share it.

I have 6 brothers, 5 of which have gone on Mormon missions. The first one was sent to the Oklahoma City, OK Mission. Two weeks into his mission he had a phsychological breakdown and had to be sent home on a medical release. He was sent to a LDS counselor and put on medication. When he was stable enough as far as the church was concerned, he was sent back to his mission. He was never the same and had severe emotional and psychological problems for the rest of the mission and still has many problems today.

The second brother was sent to the Sao Paulo, North, Brazil Mission. He lived in poverty. Before he went, my brother was a 6'2" football player and was very muscular and in great health. When he came back he was extremely skinny and had health problems and intestinal parasites. He has several health problems to this day.

The third brother was sent to the Philippines (I can't remember which mission) and was in a very poor, remote area. He lived with his companion in a wood hut in the middle of the jungle. They had to take a "shower" with a small hose and only cold water. They had no bathroom and had to use a bucket to "do their business" in. At night, they had to sleep very lightly because giant rats would come into their hut and attack them while they slept. They would sleep with their boots or a big stick so they could beat the rats to death when they tried to bite them. I wish I was making all of this up! They walked everywhere they went, sometimes miles and miles to other villiages to proseletize. The Philippines has a rainy season and everything floods, so when they had to go anywhere during that time, they had to cross dangerous flooded areas. They had next to nothing to eat every day. We would send "care packages" to him, but many times they would never get there due to being stolen by the Philippino mail workers. This brother is 6'4" and was in great shape/health before he went. When he came home he was a walking skeleton with intestinal parasites that took a few years to get rid of. He is much better now, but still deals with many intestinal issues due to the parasites and malnutrition from his mission.

The fourth brother was sent to the Quetzeltenango, Guatemala Mission. He suffered from severe depression, as well as ADD, which the church knew about before he went. They did nothing to treat him while on his mission, so he became worse. He also lived in poverty and suffered from malnutrition and intestinal parasites. He had to carry a machete with him to chop through the jungle to get to the areas where they would proseletyze. One time, he was chopping his way through the jungle and accidentaly struck his leg with the machete which gave him a huge gash, almost to the bone. It needed several stitches. They gave him only basic medical care for it. It then got infected because of the improper medical care as well as because they didn't allow him sufficient time to heal. Instead, he had to continue walking through jungles and dirty creeks, etc. He is an emotional and psychological wreck to this day.

The fifth brother was sent to the Sao Paulo, South, Brazil Mission. He had the same health problems and living conditions as my second brother who went to Brazil. He suffered from intestinal parasites and malnutrition.

It is also important to note that the missionaries are supposed to be fed by the members in their area. They are given almost no money to spend on food and toiletries. I don't know the exact amount, but others on this board do, so I hope someone will post that for you. If the missionaries are in an area where the members are poor, they don't get fed very often. I will let someone else on here tell you more about that since my post is already very long.

I'm glad you are writing about this. You haven't even heard the half of what those young men and women go through. There are even more shocking things than what has been posted so far. Good luck with your paper!

My hubby served there too. He picked up a prime case of intestinal parasites. In classic Mormon mishie tradition, he never wrote to his parents that he was ill. It got so bad that the parasites would get everything he ate before he had time to digest it. He lost something like 60 lbs in just a few months.

He lived on straight sugar - candy bars and sodas - because those were the only things he could get energy from to keep going.

Somebody took a picture of him in the suit that had been a perfect fit when he left for his mission. He looked like a scarecrow in it. His companion actually swiped the photo, wrote hubby's name and the date on it, and mailed it to hubby's parents.

My late MIL, who was a Mormon but not one that anybody with any sense would cross, basically ripped the MP a new one and demanded that her son be taken for APPROPRIATE and COMPETENT medical care.

Prior to that, all he had gotten was some kind of herbal tea from a local curandero or something. He had to be sent to a big-city hospital and was dosed with something so toxic that it took out the parasites, all right, but made him very ill too.

It was at least a couple of years before he was anywhere near back to full health.

I also went to the Quetzaltenango mission--early 80s during a lot of civil unrest. Spent the majority of time in one small geographical area because I was assigned to a Mayan-speaking area (after I got there). The area was very remote...several hours of hiking to the Pan-American Highway. Hiking was fun despite being under-nourished. Mission president was a complete and total a-hole, though.

Spent two years eating tamales, plaintains, rice, black beans and scrambled eggs. Every day. Pooped into a hole in the ground. Also came back looking like a scarecrow.

If my passport hadn't been confiscated (for "safekeeping") by the mission office, I would have hitchhiked home through Mexico!

This thread is an eye opener for me as well. Holy Crap.

tude umm I can't believe your family persisted with sending more brothers on missions after the first couple.

st. louis, lots of people record the opening of their mission calls and put them on YouTube. Here's one to get you going:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dh9OZwtBbo Holy helmet hair, Batman!!

There are loads of these.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2010 12:06AM by BestBBQ.

I feel so petty commenting on the hair, but oh my goodness...

pay attention at 1:22 in the YouTube video I posted. Sweet fancy Moses!!

Excellent, you totally made my day.

Frankly, that's part of the glamor. Young mormons WANT an adventure. They usually wish for a place with travel appeal, so Congo, Camaroon, Cambodia, etc would actually be "cool". The other end of the "cool" spectrum are Europe and Russia.
But, missionaries are more typically sent to ordinary places without the same hardships or glamor.
I went to Ohio (home Washington state).
No parasites. No burglars or robbers. No exotic conditions at all. Just the ho-hum of being a door-to-door salesman in America peddling a product that few wanted and many had contempt for.
I had plenty to eat. Gained weight. It's rude to turn down food so I ate when I wasn't hungry. Was on bike much of the time so that kept me in relatively good shape.
Had medical and psychological care.
So what was hard? Nothing. It was a sheltered experience even though I was immersed in the community for two years, even though you know a town better than the people who live there when you're done.
There's a cliche between domestic and exotic missions "over there you learn the language and culture, here you learn the gospel".
So I came home a fully convinced believer with stubborn loyalty and orthodoxy. It took another 19 years to figure out the church wasn't true.
As a missionary I was often asked why we proselyte to an already christian nation, and of course my dutiful spiel was that God has revealed more that you need to know. I doubt LDS missionaries in America would attract many complaints for upsetting pristine cultural conditions like in exotic countries, but for purposes of your paper maybe it's of note that domestic revenue pays for church activities in the rest of the world.

I recently found out my nephew is going to Democratic Republic of Congo Kinshasa for his mission. Besides the fact that his looks will make him stand out I researched the area only to find out that the US has put out a warning telling US citizens not to travel to this area. Dated a month ago. So, why in the world is the LDS church sending the naive children into a country that has the Embassy and the US warning to stay out? These children have no business being sent into such a dangerous place. I am so scared for my nephew now. He's a fantastic kid and a country that is 'safer' would be such a better use of his talents. So, let's pray for him and the others. Pray they all come home safe!

A member at my old ward (in the UK) was 1/2 Italian.
He was aware of Italian culture and society
He spoke Italian Fluently

so when he was sent on a mission, naturally....... He was sent to Greece

Ditto.... we had a guy who was fluent in Spanish.... who was sent to Belgium.