i have independently found elements in the temple ceremony in some of my old occult books (that joseph smith reportedly had in his day), e.g. the pele ring (from the year 1583):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nickleus/4189028450/

look at that square symbol (from enochian magick) and you will see all the marks on the temple garment: the L, V, and the horizontal line, on top of an O, which represents the navel =)

and then there's the word PELE. sound familiar?
"pay-lay-ale"
=)

is this in quinn's book? sorry if it is, i haven't read it yet (although i own it =)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2010 04:45AM by Nick Humphrey.

Wow. I have been googling some stuff related to your post and it is far out.

ok i just set it to public, sorry =)

the same as the Garment marks. If available to Joseph how could this not be a coincidence?

Great stuff, thanks Nick!

...therefore the Church is true!!

Also, there's no way Joseph Smith could have known that Pele would be the world's greatest soccer player-- therefore the Church is true!!

yeah, and how could he know that Pele is the volcano goddess, unless god told him?

I have to wonder just what connection there was between Dee and his group, and the Weishaupt group of illumined masons? Did the Masons borrow some of Dee's occultism for their Masonic ceremonies and symbols? Or vice versa? Or not at all?

Nothing on Wiki about any connections, other than a mention that Masonic gear is similar in some ways to Dee's gear.

a good reason why the church says stuff like members shouldn't study things of the occult. they dont want members seeing where the church got lots of their own cult elements... =)

Nick Humphrey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> a good reason why the church says stuff like
> members shouldn't study things of the occult. they
> dont want members seeing where the church got lots
> of their own cult elements... =)


If that is true, it is a strong indicator that the 15 know the source of the church is bogus and are covering it up.

We should gather quotes from the leaders saying avoid the occult and then highlight this connection and others like it. It's exceedingly hypocritical to say avoid something that is the very foundation of what they teach.


Didn't D. Michael Quinn write about this in his book "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View"?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2011 08:54AM by Jesus Smith.

http://lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church/selected-church-policies?lang=eng&query=occult#21.4
"
Occult Affiliation

Church members should not engage in any form of Satan worship or affiliate in any way with the occult. “Such activities are among the works of darkness spoken of in the scriptures. They are designed to destroy one’s faith in Christ, and will jeopardize the salvation of those who knowingly promote this wickedness. These things should not be pursued as games, be topics in Church meetings, or be delved into in private, personal conversations” (First Presidency letter, Sept. 18, 1991).
"

i just updated the wikipedia page for "adamic language".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adamic_language

we'll see how long it goes before the "facts" are removed.
here's the wikipedia code, for posterity (and possible re-edit):
<ref name = SLCM/> "Pay Lay" most likely is derived from letters on the Enochian magick PELE ring, from 1583, "revealed" to John Dee, which also bears the symbols of the Mormon temple garments: L, V and a horizontal line on top of an O (representing the navel/belly button).<ref>[http://www.flickr.com/photos/nickleus/4189028450/ John Dee's Enochian PELE ring: most likely source of LDS temple garment markings and old version of endowment chant.]</ref>

cool!

faithful in the church. Those with minds to think who use them are obviously evil in God's sight and have been weeded out successfully. Mwahhahahahahha!!

lavey used 19 of dee's 48 angelic keys and sort of rewrote them with a satanic theme for use in his satanic bible. lavey also uses ideas and concepts from friedrich nietzsche, ragnar redbeard, the catholic church (for use in black masses, to mock the catholic rituals), etc...

the satanic bible is an interesting book, i recommend it, but it is not scary, wasnt written under the influence of the devil, etc. it is merely atheism, humanism and iconoclasm, meant to help people liberate themselves from christianity, while using the mask of satanism for shock value and to make it sell better...



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2011 09:32AM by Nick Humphrey.

It was never Pay Lay Al in the temple, Mormons just did not get the drift.

What they were really saying was:

Pele EL (satan is god )
or satan is the reverse side of God.

I mentioned this a few years ago here and no one believed me.

The fact that the temple ceremony was changed indicates that the Twelve became aware of Smith's sources and his dabbling in Magick.

EL would mean god yes, but where do you get "satan" in there?

here it says that pele is a hawaiian deity:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pele_%28deity%29
"the goddess of fire, lightning, dance, and volcanoes"

according to this document:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nickleus/4189028450/in/photostream/

pele is latin for "he will work wonders", but then this here it says that it's not latin but actually the hebrew word alp, spelled backwards and in roman letters:
http://truthundertherazor.blogspot.com/2009/12/enochian-pele-ring-and-lds-temple.html

"alp, which in any Hebrew-English dictionary or concordance means, 'wonders or miracles.'"

enochian magick was given to john dee by angels and the ring was said to be the same one solomon used to control demons.

Pele el would translate to

Pele = god

Who did not believe you?

The symbols on the garments were taken directly from Freemasonry, with the two main symbols being the compass and square. Also Masonic symbols are the honey bee, the all seeing eye, the upright and inverted pentagram, sun stones, moon stones and many others. Freemasonry took many of these symbols from Kabbalism which was 12-13th century Jewish mysticism which was started by the Hasidic Jews in France and Spain.

Albert Pike, in the 1800's recognized that the Masonic traditions came from Zohar (principle texts of Kabbalism), and through that channel he claimed a tie to the temple of Solomon.

>The Kabalah is the key to the occult sciences; and the Gnostics were born of the Kabalists. (Morals and Dogma, p. 626)


(He had it backward, the Gnostics predated Kabbalism by a thousand years.)

>Masonry is a search after Light. That search leads us directly back, as you see, to the Kabalah. In that ancient and little understood medley of absurdity and philosophy, the Initiate will find the source of many doctrines; and may in time come to understand the Hermetic philosophers, the Alchemists, all the Anti-papal Thinkers of the Middle Age, and Emanuel Swedenborg. (Morals and Dogma, p. 741)



>All truly dogmatic religions have issued from the Kabalah, and return to it: everything scientific and grand in the religious dreams of all the illuminati, Jacob Boehme, Swedenborg, Saint-Martin, and others, is borrowed from the Kabalah; all the Masonic associations owe to it their Secrets and Symbols. (Morals and Dogma, p. 744)



Morals and Dogma was the book given to candidates upon receipt of the 14th degree of the Scottish Rite for nearly 100 years. Pike was commissioned by the Supreme Council to take the earlier writings and develop a guide for the Scottish Rite similar to "Duncan's Masonic Ritual and Monitor" by Malcolm C. Duncan (1866), which was the handbook for York Rite Freemasons. Albert Pike was the Grand Commander of the Supreme Council for 20 years.

Gershom Scholem, the foremost expert on Kabbalism in the world has written several books on the subject and has pin pointed the birth of Kabbalism. While Kabbalism was initially conceptualized and has very early roots in France with the hasidut, however the development and writing was done in Gerona and Castile Spain and was not disseminated throughout Europe until there expulsion from Spain in the 14th Century.

Like Pike, Gershom Scholem has also recognized the influence of Kabbalism on Freemasonry.

Joseph Smith was a student of Kabbalism studying under Alexander Neibaur. He had also become a Mason. He felt he had it all under control. The Masons were in part an outgrowth Kabbalah traditions and Kabbalah claimed links back to Adam. Freemasons claimed links back to the Temple of Solomon.



A number of years ago a Mormon intellectual informed us that it was his understanding that one of the top scholars in the church had pointed out to church authorities that the words pay lay ale or pe le el could be translated from the Hebrew language as "mouth to God." This, of course, could be considered to be a condensed version of "Oh God, hear the words of my mouth!" That this translation is plausible can be confirmed by consulting Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, Hebrew and Chaldee Dictionary, word #6310—"peh... the mouth." The Hebrew letter Lamed (transliterated in English as l) is often added on the front of words and means "to, at, for" (Hebrew Primer and Grammar, by C. P. Fagnani and A. B. Davidson, page 50). Word #410 in Strong's Concordance is "ale... God (god)." Kyle D. Williams has also pointed out to us that the Biblical name "Lael," found in Numbers 3:24, is translated by Strong (#3815) as "(belonging) to God." At any rate, we were told that the Mormon scholar was so convincing in his presentation to the leaders of the church that they changed the wording of the temple ceremony to "Pay Lay Ale."

In connection with this priesthood JS chose a new name - Baurak Ale which is a transliteration of a Hebrew name, also Baraqi'el, Barak-el, Barkayal or Barakel. This is a Kabbalah name of power. This was the name of 1 of the 7 archangels and 1 of the 4 ruling seraphim. He was known as the "Lightning of God" angel of the month of February and ruled Jupiter. JS was placing himeslf as a equal to Melchizedek as one of the archangels. It is again Hebrew, not the "Adamic language."

I do have some further information. The reason that some of the words are not in the standard Hebrew dictionary is that at that time, Smith was learning Sephardi Hebrew from Joshua Seixas, which is a fairly minor dialect.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2011 11:16AM by Jim Huston.

it is interesting though that the pele ring has all the garment symbols on it, in one place. i have the zohar at home, i'll have to take a look.

A well researched article on the subject. I have found a few inaccuracies based on my study of Gershom Scholem's work, but generally it is very good.

Joseph Smith and Kabbalah:
The Occult Connection
by Lance S. Owens

This work was originally published in Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Vol. 27, No. 3, Fall 1994, pp. 117-194. The paper received considerable notice, and in 1995 the Mormon History Association recognized Joseph Smith and Kabbalah: The Occult Connection with its annual award for the best article in Mormon studies. There is an ongoing demand for this paper but unfortunately Dialogue sold out its entire printing of the Fall, 1994 issue within a few weeks.

http://www.gnosis.org/jskabb1.htm

Here is some more information about some of the symbols

http://www.swartzentrover.com/cotor/Cults/Mormon/Symbols/Symbols.htm

One more little side note. I went back through some of my information.

Enochian magick is magic based in the Book of Enoch. The Book of Enoch is a Jewish text and used by Astrology, Alchemy, Kabbalism, and Gnosticism. It is considered to be scripture by some Jewish groups. Experts believe it was written between 300 and 100 BCE. It disappeared for many years after canonization of the Bible and resurfaced in 1821. It was used in Rabbinic schools while lost, but not outside of that. The first translation was released shortly after that, translated by an Oxford Professor of Hebrew. Parts of it have since been found in the Qumran and Nag Hammadi groups of texts, as well as the Berlin Codex.

Knowing that both Gnosticism and Kabbalism rely on this book and knowing that Freemasonry relies on Kabbalism and Mormonism on Freemasonry, Gnosticism and Kabbalism, I shouldn't wonder that the symbols would appear in all three places.

I think it would be quite a leap to get from the Jewish Book of Enoch to Satanism.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2011 01:22PM by Jim Huston.

and their revelations from angels and also from scrying sessions.. kelley was the scryer and dee was the conjurer... plus they used elements from the heptameron...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2011 05:56AM by Nick Humphrey.

Some of the information that Dee provided make some scholars think that he had a Book of Enoch. The Rabbinic schools had it and it was used during the compilation of the Zohar.

Read L. S. Bernstein's article on "Egregor" which strengthens the argument that Dee had access to information from the Book of Enoch, specifically that concerning the Watchers. Dee and Kelly asserted that the Nephilim, Giants or offspring of the Watchers, under the command of Uriel, could be evoked with the Enochian "Call of the Thirty Aethyrs.



"It is interesting to meet again many of Dee's angels in the visions recounted in the Ethiopian Book of Enoch. It is interesting to compare their concerns."

"Much of the content of the Ethiopian book is about the background to the first destruction of the world, an event brought about by the evil caused by angelic 'Watchers' (Patai suggests an alternative translation 'guardian angels' - that is, they are identical with Dee's Watchmen and Overseers). Much of the content of Dee's transcript is concerned with the final destruction of the world. This theme occurs constantly, both explicitly and through symbolism which is clearly linked to the Apocalypse or Revelation of St. John. Dee was well aware of this, and his margin notes show that he understood the references. Dee divided the world into three ages: the first age up to the Flood, a second age up to the coming of Jesus Christ, and a final age terminated by the destruction of the world. In common with many (most) Europeans of his time, he lived his life in an awareness that this end was not a conjecture - it was a matter of fact - and that it was imminent. The angels confirm several times that the 'end of days' is nigh.

"There are so many parallels between events leading up to the first destruction of the world (the biblical Flood) and events leading up to the final destruction (the Apocalypse) that they must be considered duals - that is, not as unconnected mythic material, but as the beginning and end of the same story reflected like mirror images at opposite ends of time. The three ages of the world are in some way connected to the three mystical and visionary works that tell the story: the Ethiopian Book of Enoch, Dee's Book of Enoch, and the Apocalypse of St. John."
- Colin Low, Liber Logaeth

Fresh Angles On John Dee’s Angels
DeSalvo goes into detail about the apocryphal Book of Enoch and the titular Biblical character the book is attributed to. While many attracted to DeSalvo’s book are undoubtedly familiar with these controversial Old Testament writings, DeSalvo’s parsing of the book, its author, its legend and lore are a welcome surprise and the fascinating parallels he draws between the Book of Enoch and the transmissions that Dee and Kelley received are the highlight of the volume.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2011 10:42AM by Jim Huston.

Nick Humphrey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and their revelations from angels and also from
> scrying sessions.. kelley was the scryer and dee
> was the conjurer... plus they used elements from
> the heptameron...


I was brought up as LDS and I now am a Spiritual Satanist. I can tell you that work with the keys of Enoch are part of some peoples workings. The reverse tree or Quipoth along with study of Sigils and Enns is a huge part of the work we do. Why do LDS people say there is no connection? They want to fit in and have political power.
I know of other LDS who left the church and became Satanist or pagans. They hate the church because of all the lies about the early sources . If you want to know the real truth then start using the sigils and ask the demons yourself! The LDS are apostates and they are keeping you stupid to get your money and your power. Check out the page for Temple of the Black light and read about the keys. watch videos by a band called Disection. Happy hunting Brothers and Sisters!

"Baurak Ale" from Jim's post this is the new name chosen by Joseph Smith.

Hmmm, adds a new dimension to the chant "Pay, Lay, Ale"...

The Jesuits are behind masonary control on most sunday relegions taking both sides today, even including muslems
in a photo i saw with them in their masonary clothes
and another in their muslem outfits.

Its all part of the one world gov order, and the mormon
united order also that the bible warned not to wander after
the pagen beast of Rome let alone goes back to babylon and
sun-worship satanic gods....

Its an occult new age gender sweeping the world from
Mormonism to Harry Potter and even hollywood means a magic
tree branch for witches. Its all hypnotism and mind control
from media to relegion that has the symbolism of pagenism.

The mormon and catholic empire are right at the top of the
pagen occult powers of mind control. and want YOUR MONEY
to enter those pagen yet beautifal sickening temples
that promise everything that the bible didnt promise
nor did the bible say we are spirits but the dead are concious
of nothing and when we are dead we sleep until the resurrection
no 2nd chance. Immortal christians and mortal disbeleivers
and mortal resurrected beings suffer 2nd death and no
terrestial nor telestial simply never exist again.
The lake of fire burning of dead bodies in christ comming
who are consumed by fire and satin will have no one to tempt
for a 1000 years surrounded by dead people.
Only after 1000 years heaven will live on the new earth.
The 4th commandment originally remember the 7th day saturday
and keep it holy can seperate the christians from pagens
and not wander after cults or the beast who will make sunday
law where we cannot buy or sell unless we are part of their
666 including mormonism......

Well thats seven day aventist views and I'm not seven day
adventist but we were taught in mormonism they were the
closest to the truth but now I believe they are more
closer than mormonism....I'm not quiet athiest yet
but many mormons go from mormonism to athiesm..

try adventism and at least be free from masonary symbols
and worship on the true day that is keeping the only
legalistic requirement the 10 commandmnents and enter into
christ rightousness denying our own filthy rags of rightousness to be saved rather than lost...

Larry....

Job Nut

Ehm sorry I may just have got that the wrong way round...

I know what you mean Nick humkkphrey,but its actually
hard yakka drill to live each day without eternal hope
and relegion is only for those who need it.
I admire strong athiest like most of my warrior generations
with the same name past from generation until it came to
me, my name was changed, even tho I named my son after
my great warrior ancestors and my father.

I admire my father for his honesty and principle to live
a good decent life in the name of the NO GOD belief
and his evolution and peace not war attitude.
Some athiest are war mongers and kill without concious
what happens to them here-after....

You sound like a good bloke. Tell me your happiness
in the dark of athiesm as the bible says there is no
light in athiesm and dis-belief worse than adultary
to not believe.....But I get your point and are you
truly happy mate??

cheers.....larry

am i happy? are you happy? watch this:
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/daniel_kahneman_the_riddle_of_experience_vs_memory.html

> its actually hard yakka drill to live each day without eternal hope

this is EXACTLY what i DONT find after leaving mormonism. i find that i actually LIVE each day knowing it might be my last. as a mormon i was always just dreaming of the future: "i dont need to go after my dreams because when i die i'll know everything and have power over everything" i was just waiting to die because the afterlife was so much better.... what a dangerous, counterproductive, lazy load of horse sh!t the lds church feeds it's people...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2011 03:16AM by Nick Humphrey.