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Posted by: mightybuffalo ( )
Date: January 16, 2018 08:24PM

For the sake of being a cheap a$$, at what point do you buy your own coffee and coffee maker over purchasing McCafe's and Starbucks? Like how much coffee makes the home brew worth it?

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Posted by: BYU Boner ( )
Date: January 16, 2018 08:45PM

First, get yourself a nice coffee traveling mug. It will be environmentally-friendly and generally get you a discount. I get most of my coffee at my local grocery store. The cost for caffe ibis is $1.07 including tax.

Once you get hooked on good coffee, there’s no going back. So, if you decide to do home brew, you’re looking at a Burr coffee grinder, and good quality brewing equipment.

The most important part of coffee is the freshness of the beans. Whole coffee beans last longer than ground beans. The longest I’ve ever been about to keep ground coffee fresh is about three days.

Keurig has a single-brew pod system. Although the coffee is passible, the plastic k-cups that end up in the trash don’t outweigh the convivence of a single brew to me. Plus, the pods aren’t that cheap anyway.

So, Bro, part of the joy of coffee is to sit with a buddy, talking and cussing up a storm, and enjoying a simple joy in life.

Mighty Buffalo, May your life be filled with simply joys. I hope you and the wife can pull together. My wife was devastated when she found out I drank coffee. Oh, and a hearty fuck the Morg to you!

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Posted by: mightybuffalo ( )
Date: January 16, 2018 10:29PM

Boner-- sounding like a true coffee connoisseur there! I'm impressed! Wifey of mine wasn't too happy when she found out I drink it. Usually I buy a cup when I'm out and about and trash it before she sees simply to avoid the confrontation. That's why I was curious as to how much damn money I'm losing haha

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Posted by: danr ( )
Date: January 17, 2018 10:17AM

The Keurig has a screened, reusable K-cup that you put fresh ground coffee in that I have found is cheap, good, and doesn't fill up the landfill. The used coffee grounds are great for the compost pile.

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Posted by: primarypianist ( )
Date: January 18, 2018 04:25PM

My husband would agree with the burr grinder and buying the whole beans, verses already ground.
I personally can't stand the smell or taste of coffee, but I finally agreed to let my husband get a French press and burr grinder. He says it is immensely better than the already ground coffee beans. He also says it's quite more time consuming to do it this way instead of with a coffee machine.
Even though I hate coffee, I do have to admit that the French press coffee tasted a lot better than the Beans and Brews coffee I had tried of his.

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Posted by: sunbeep ( )
Date: January 16, 2018 08:48PM

A true coffee guru would cringe at this but I have used a $20 drip coffee maker for years and get the results that suits me just fine. I have a small grinder, but still usually buy the coffee already ground in a round red coffee can you can find in any store for under ten bucks. Plus, as an added bonus, you can vary the amount of coffee grounds to achieve whatever strength of coffee that suits you.

I still like gas station coffee, but getting the right brew for me is hit and miss as the gas station might have a strong brew or a weak one. McD's coffee has never appealed to me, however their ice coffee with hazelnut is fantastic. Starbuck's is too expensive, but can be delicious to the taste and very desirable.

Brewing at home with a drip maker is cheap and you control the strength. A drip maker will make one cup or many, you control the grounds and water ratio. Can I brew a batch for you now?

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Posted by: mightybuffalo ( )
Date: January 16, 2018 10:30PM

Sunbeep you're making me drool, wish I was there for that brew!

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 16, 2018 08:51PM

Brewing your own saves you considerable $$ over time. $3.50 x 5/days per week x 45 weeks (conservative work year) = $787.50/year. Add afternoon coffees and more work weeks, and you're well over a thousand each year.

Thermos coffee never quite measures up. Un-fun fact: coffee keeps brewing inside the thermos. Factoring in sugar and some kind of dairy product complicates things, but I've done it a lot, simply because I'm a cheap New England yankee and have a cast iron stomach.

A good coffee station at work is usually the best solution, but maintaining it is often contentious. Much as I sneer at Kurig, it at least simplifies things. At the very least, brew your commuting coffee at home and take that with you.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: January 16, 2018 08:56PM

I live 18 miles from the nearest Starbucks, 23 from the nearest MickeyD's.
It's a no-brainer.

I have a French Press, but it only sees occasional use.
Mostly it's the compromise: a good Keurig.
In a hurry, with good pods, it makes good coffee.
If I have time to grind, I do (and use the special pod for your own ground coffee), and it's better.
If I have lots of time, it's the French press.

Much cheaper, and much more convenient than buying out.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 16, 2018 09:05PM

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If I have time to grind, I do (and use the special
> pod for your own ground coffee), and it's better.

So, to use the convenient Keurig, you bought the special reusable pod. You grind your coffee, then put it into the reusable mesh pod, and brew it. After that, you, you dump the used grounds, and wash and dry the reusable pod.

Hie, PLEASE look into the "Clever Coffee Dripper," about $22 at various on-line venders. For that single cup, I think you'll find it really beats the Keurig, which I'm not completely against--just that it's best for group situations like offices, not home use.

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Posted by: BYU Boner ( )
Date: January 16, 2018 09:22PM

I did the k-cup fill-your-own, coffee grounds everywhere! But of course, Hie is correct, fresh beans and a French Press! Simple, yet elegant, and the grounds in your cup add fiber to the diet!

Or, a Moka pot with Illy beans would also be cheap, but good.

Caffiend, have you tried the Starbucks instant? Not too bad...I’d rank it next to Keurig. Still, it’s about $1 a cup.

Thanks, wankers, now I have to wait until morning because we older gents can’t have caffeine this late at night. And yes, Hie, de-caf IS the devil’s brew.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 16, 2018 09:35PM

My favorite Cantabridgian * coffee shop serves re-caffeinated, diet-free all-natural estate-grown gently roasted cruelty-free coffee beans. Perfect with organic sugar crystals and 3.14159265 35897932384626433832795028841971693993751% free-range soy milk!

Only problem there is the fist-fights between the Harvard and MIT nerds.

*Cambridge, Massachusetts, on the other side of the currently frozen Charles River

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Posted by: BYU Boner ( )
Date: January 17, 2018 01:04AM

That sounds so anti-cup-of-Joe!

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Posted by: BYU Boner ( )
Date: January 17, 2018 01:54AM

Is it Pi-Day already?

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 17, 2018 02:01AM

I'm always amused by pseudo-intellectuals effusing over "gourmet" coffee with tastebuds they destroyed years ago in their flower-power days.

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Posted by: BYU Boner ( )
Date: January 17, 2018 02:40AM

Flower power? Dude, I was a Mormon! The only thing I smoked was the camp fire.

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Posted by: dp ( )
Date: January 17, 2018 01:57AM

Did you remember all those digits of pi yourself? (Are the the actual digits? I'm not going to bother looking them up...I'm quite the lazy f*ck about some things. I do know for a fact, however, that you got at least the first 6 digits right.)

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 17, 2018 02:07AM

dp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did you remember all those digits of pi yourself?
> (Are the the actual digits?
I'll fess up, dp--that was a cut-and-paste job. I'm an absolute innumerate.

Regarding your post, below, on instant: I buy a 4-oz Tasters Choice crystals once a year or so. It is pretty decent for instant, and I'll put it in a zip-lock bag for camping. What I don't consume, I keep for the occasional recipe which requires it, or to darken a rye bread dough.

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Posted by: CateS ( )
Date: January 18, 2018 06:52AM

I’ve gotten the refill k-cup insert for the keurig at work and I like it so much I’m going to replace my home coffee maker with a keurig. I didn’t like idea of keurig bc of expense and environmental impact. Refill k-cup mitigates impact of both these problems.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: January 18, 2018 10:19AM

caffiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hie, PLEASE look into the "Clever Coffee Dripper,"
> about $22 at various on-line venders. For that
> single cup, I think you'll find it really beats
> the Keurig, which I'm not completely against--just
> that it's best for group situations like offices,
> not home use.

My Keurig supports the "carafe" size pods. And resuable carafe-sized filter pods. Usually if I grind, I make a "pot." :)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DJ4BYWQ/ref=asc_df_B01DJ4BYWQ5340825/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B01DJ4BYWQ&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198065490425&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15266039731112663237&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9061190&hvtargid=pla-350860437018

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: January 16, 2018 09:58PM

I've got a Keurig and a big ass Breville unit at home....but I go for coffee with my friends most mornings and afternoons. $2.50/cup with unlimited refills. I'd rather drink coffee with my friends. Only make it here if I've got company.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: January 18, 2018 10:36AM

When I was a sophomore in high school in Idaho I was a bit of a rebel, so hung out with the coffee drinkers from school. (What else is there to do besides that and listen to rock-n-roll when you're 15?)

We'd go hang out at Denny's restaurant where we could order all you can drink coffee for .15 cents a person. We'd sit there all afternoon tanking out on coffee. It was great fun!

We'd laugh and have a party sitting around that coffee urn. We'd drink so much until we couldn't drink anymore. Then tumble out into the parking lot as we went on our merry way. Oh the good old days.

:-)

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Posted by: dp ( )
Date: January 17, 2018 01:50AM

"Too much mess," says I, about drip coffee makers.

"Too much waste," I continue, about keurigs & K-cups. (And If I want a letter next to my cup, K might be a bit...large.)

"Instant coffee is the way to go," I exclaim.

And it's not all bad. (Well, plain Folger's instant is bad.) Try the Nescafe "clasico dark roast". Taster's choice "house blend" is good too.

I'll warn you away from drinking dollar-store instant coffee. Not good, may cause intestinal distress. (It's good for creating DIY wood stains, however. Serious...as in stains you might use for woodworking. Also good for leaving dark stain rings or splash marks on light-colored things, like your carpet, or your term paper, etc.)

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Posted by: dp ( )
Date: January 17, 2018 01:54AM

Let me qualify all that: if you're over at nona's house (and I mean a real Italian "nona"), and she offers to make a fresh pot of espresso, DO NOT TURN HER DOWN! It's the best stuff ever!

Yes, espresso is the one case where I'd say it's better to brew the coffee than it is to boil some water and re-hydrate it.

But other than that, instant is my best bet for "homemade" coffee, and may be yours.

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Posted by: danr ( )
Date: January 18, 2018 10:35AM

My brother and SIL actually prefer their coffee to be instant, they always use Tasters Choice. It's okay, but I don't see how they prefer it over brewed.

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Posted by: Betty G ( )
Date: January 17, 2018 04:57AM

If you are doing Starbucks, you are losing a small fortune. You can make equally good coffee at home for FAR less money.

On the otherhand, Mcdonalds coffee is CHEAP and FAST. Hard to beat that when you are in a rush and trying to get some coffee that fills the need, Mcdonalds can be hard to beat.

You might be able to make better coffee on your own, depends on your local resources and abilities.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: January 17, 2018 08:12AM

Starbucks is expensive. Even McDonald's coffee adds up. Go ahead and find a home solution. I have a Capresso drip coffee maker and I use Maxwell House French Roast. For daily coffee, it's more than adequate. If you want to get fancier, get a burr grinder and grind your own beans. You can even keep the beans in the freezer and grind them frozen. Get an insulated mug if you want to take the coffee with you.

At work, Keurig is the way to go. The pods get expensive at home, but they do make a lot of sense at work.

Save Starbucks, McDonald's etc. for every now and then.

The evidence supporting coffee as a healthful and helpful drink (more than 40 studies) is overwhelming. Along with tea, the WoW got it really wrong. The Mormon church may insist on no coffee, but scientists disagree.

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Posted by: mikemitchell ( )
Date: January 17, 2018 12:04PM

Have used a Keurig for more than 7 years now. I don't buy the pods, just a reusable filter and regular coffee grounds. My experience is a considerable savings. I use far less grounds than a drip maker and can get the strength that I like. I'll admit that I was upset when my wife bought it. She had bought me a single cup brewer once before, but it was a cheap one and didn't last. I argued that the Keurig was too much money to spend for a coffee maker and all I needed was a cheap drip brewer with a glass carafe. She told me that I was going through too much coffee and throwing out what I didn't drink. Time proved her right and the money savings on using far less grounds has more than paid for the Keurig, which is still going strong after all these years.

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Posted by: GregS ( )
Date: January 17, 2018 12:19PM

Kuerig coffee maker, using either K-pods or fresh-ground coffee in the reusable filter. Put it in my large Yeti travel mug and I'm good for the entire morning.

The coffee at work isn't half bad and takes care of my coffee needs for the rest of the day.

When on the road, I find that McDonald's coffee is actually pretty good most of the time. I avoid Burger King coffee like that plague...blech!

Starbucks is much too expensive for something that is mostly indistinguishable from my home coffee or even McDonald's. Caribou Coffee is less expensive, though it's still too much for me to indulge regularly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2018 12:20PM by GregS.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 17, 2018 01:29PM

Check out Salt Lake's Black Rifle Coffee Company for beans and gear. Veteran-owned and operated, over-the-top Alpha male, in-your-face patriotic and unapologetically sexist, if their coffee is as neat as their merchandise, it must be fantastic.

They love to shoot guns and blow things up; search "black rifle coffee videos" and check out their ads. For example, shooting "Jingle Bells" on tuned steel plates. Others are simply outrageous.

Warning: Not Snowflake Friendly!

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: February 04, 2018 12:48PM

Just asshole friendly.
Definitely not patriotic.

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Posted by: desertman ( )
Date: January 17, 2018 01:59PM

20 some odd years agao

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Posted by: Free Man ( )
Date: January 17, 2018 11:08PM

These discussions make me glad I've never fallen for the coffee headache. You would think you could take a caffeine pill for your drug fix.

Guys at work like to leave their coffee containers laying all over, and I've made a rule for spill-proof containers only, since we store records for people.

One day a guy left his spillable coffee on some boxes of records, so instead of tracking down the owner, out of frustration, I threw it out the door to the parking lot.

He was offended and said that was a $7 coffee. This is the guy who is broke all the time and can barely afford a car to get to work. Anyway, he continued to argue about my treatment of his coffee to the point he quit.

Very emotional, all this coffee stuff. Almost like a religion - people are offended, it is very costly, and there are many rituals involved.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: January 17, 2018 11:52PM


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Posted by: mightybuffalo ( )
Date: January 17, 2018 11:54PM

If coffee were a religion, I want in dammit

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Posted by: Jane Cannary ( )
Date: January 18, 2018 05:17PM

The religion of Joe.

Ick.

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Posted by: Darren Steers ( )
Date: January 18, 2018 08:24AM

I use the Aeropress coffee maker.

10 seconds to grind fresh beans. Throw that into the Aeropress, and 30-60 seconds later - great tasting coffee.

Minimal waste (the tiny paper filter), super easy clean up.

It's small and discrete for those that might offend Mormons with any obvious coffee paraphernalia in the kitchen. Mormons wouldn't know what it was.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: January 18, 2018 08:58AM

I don't buy fancy coffee at Starbucks, just make it myself. I have to buy a new coffee maker about every twelve months or so. That isn't as expensive as buying the ones that can do everything imaginable. I only need mine to make coffee.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: January 18, 2018 09:10AM

Being a lover of creature comforts, I use a variety of ways to get my coffee fix when I have a hankering for one.

1) Keurig. Works like a charm.
2) home percolator. Farberware makes a really nice one. A small pot (4 cup size.) Or there's a larger size if you like more.

3) McDonald's. Tim Horton's. Spot Coffee. Starbucks. When on the road I even like the gas station quick fixes. 7-11 has a nice brew at a fraction of the Starbucks price. :)

4) French press (rarely used, but I have it and it works.)

One of my children loves the Aire press coffee maker. It makes the best cup of coffee and from fresh ground coffee beans - and is much less expensive than the store franchise bought.

I also love tea. My Keurig makes a good cup of tea as well as coffee. And I have a tea kettle with a cast iron brewer for loose tea or tea bags to steep it in. That works very well too. I'm cutting back right now while undergoing medical treatment for something. But still enjoy a cup now and then. :-)

As for expense of Keurig, it varies by company label. Overall it is less expensive than buying out. My local supermarket makes a really good brew for Keurig that is $4.00 for 12 cups. That's pretty cost effective IMO, and is as good and fresh as some of the name brand products. I even like it more than most of them. :)

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Posted by: Sima ( )
Date: February 04, 2018 07:44AM

Thanks, in the meanwhile, find me at the nearest fuel station.
https://gasstation-nearme.com/

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Posted by: kentish ( )
Date: January 18, 2018 12:09PM

Beans and Brews the coffee house of choice around SLC (local, too) and for a coffee beans by mail service there is little to touch Mustache Coffee if you want to try some different flavors.

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Posted by: Dorothy ( )
Date: January 18, 2018 05:02PM

I am all for coffee. I just hope that a TBM spouse would come first.

When I was TBM, I knew that hubby drank coffee occasionally when he was out.

If he had brought home a coffee maker and expected me to a) make counter space for it, b) see it every time I spent time in the kitchen, and c) clean it, I would have had a conniption fit.

Maybe the Aeropress is a good option.

Good luck.

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Posted by: Southern ExMo ( )
Date: January 18, 2018 10:45PM

I am very happy with my favorite coffee: Special Roast, put out by Folgers. Or Kroger. Kroger has a house labeled Special Roast that tastes identical to the Folgers, so after I discovered that, I started buying Kroger brand Special Roast instead.

It comes in a huge can, so I transfer it into several smaller jars and vacuum seal the jars with my Food Saver vacuum system. Doing that, it stays fresh.

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Posted by: paintingnotloggedon ( )
Date: January 21, 2018 02:18PM

discount store clearance shelf sort of strewn with the rest of the mess amongst mugs and monster beaded mats. Its called Italian coffee maker and came with directions. I tried it yesterday.
You unscrew it and put this coffee ground up dried from beans into the little top dealie \which pops into the tiny rounded bottom compartment. You pour water up to a little bolt or screw on the outside edge of the bottom. Then you twist the cute little top with a handle and flipping lid on a hinge around and around until its tight.
And you put it on the stove, it barely fit in the center of the burner it was consumed by the circle its so small it fits inside of it barely balanced across the gas stove grid.

ok Then you turn it on and listen. a little later you hear a funny hiss. If you flip the lid you look and see funny little bits of liquid gurgling out through this little stem.

Then you have your coffee. Apparently, strong, coffee. I added half and half to mine. My husband added sugar, lots and lots of sugar to his. Sometimes I like adding coacoa (thanks to Ms.MOM) and I've even tried melting chocolate. Then I learned about donuts topped with cholocate while you take of sip of coffee. Its like amazing. The coffee is hot and strong and has flavor and the donut has crunch and sweet. That thing you see of tv folks sipping coffee eating donuts on their break before they drive off, is not a joke.

If you fill the little screen up with ground coffee, then you will get espresso. However if you use LESS ground coffee, then you will get about half a mug of perfect coffee. It was fast simple clean fun.

I've enjoyed French press coffee I like the silt and deliberately grind super fine however my spouse freaks with coffee grounds in his drink- my French press screen had leaks. So I learned to use mini hand held round like screen door wire mesh I found in the kitchen store. So if I were you, I'd get one too then you can put it in the top of your mug when you pour your experiment with coffees or teas, and not panic when something missed the filter. My merit scholar baby was first trying tea as she and her sister and I drank samples through the night while they were still teens. It was our first venture breaking the WOWO we sipped tea together tasting until early morning, 4 am, then slumped asleep across the couches comfortable backs in the living room, where we'd been sitting together tea kettle and strainer gripped in my merit scholar baby's teen ager's hand. From the beginning first WOWO venture refused to let go of the grip lest tea leaf grit slip grounds into it.

You might like that too. Round circle, convex wire mesh screen, handle. Fits in mug. Pour through if grit grounds tea leaf bits might bother you.

Enjoy the adventure.

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Posted by: nonmo_1 ( )
Date: February 04, 2018 09:48AM

to save money you should make your own coffee.

If you can drink it black, a decent coffee maker (mine's a Cuisinart, but there are many others..), a coffee grinder, and whole bean coffee (go to a higher end grocery store, the variety/favors are endless..), will do wonders for you. Also, get a good travel mug...Contigos and Yeti mugs keep coffee warm and drinkable for hours.

If you want the lattes, expressos and coffee drinks, there are machines for that for the home, but I know little about those.

Some whole bean coffee, freshly ground, with a little flavored creamer, or just black, is great,

Do yourself and your wallet a favor and quit buying coffee from Starbucks or wherever everyday.

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: February 04, 2018 10:55AM

mightybuffalo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For the sake of being a cheap a$$, at what point
> do you buy your own coffee and coffee maker over
> purchasing McCafe's and Starbucks? Like how much
> coffee makes the home brew worth it?

It's NOT how much but HOW GOOD (how authentic, how real, how pure/ tasty) you want/ need/ like it.

M@t

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: February 04, 2018 12:46PM

The coffee dilemma .... which end do you put it in ?

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: February 06, 2018 01:24PM

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The coffee dilemma .... which end do you put it in
> ?


I put it 'in a mu' mouth.

M@t

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Posted by: Caffiend-nli ( )
Date: February 05, 2018 01:53AM

But I'm ecumenical enough not to snub or shun people who use it.

The OP's issue, a few weeks ago, was about the cost advantage of brewing at home. I have an experience, not about coffee, but relevant enough in that it involves another WOW prohibited beverage.

About ten years ago I happened to be with a Major Number Cruncher on the business side of the Red Sox' Fenway Park. I told him that I had heard that beer, served from a half-keg (real full kegs are very rarely used these days), costs about a nickle a cup.

"More than that," he answered. He took out a calculator and did some back-of-the-envelope arithmetic. He finally answered, "Considering cost, transportation, two or three employees' handling, the commission of the vendor, and the souvenir cup (a crummy thing, about 20 oz), that serving of beer costs us about 45 cents."

They charged $6-7 back then. I'm sure it's higher now.

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Posted by: rhgc ( )
Date: February 05, 2018 07:12PM

My cost - being as I always buy on sale - is about 2 cents a cup.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: February 05, 2018 10:25PM

Money saved through thrift has an additional blessing: it's $$ to your good that are not taxed!

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Posted by: janis ( )
Date: February 05, 2018 10:51PM

A 1lb. bag of whole bean coffee makes 89 9oz. cups of coffee.

I buy a good quality that's $16 a lb.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2018 10:53PM by janis.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: February 05, 2018 11:33PM

89 cups? That seems kind of generous, i.e. too many cups for the pound. Considering I typically drink 15-20 oz each mug, I'll guesstimate that single pound will produce 40 mugs or so. At a conservative, non-Starbucks or similar lah-de-dah koffee shoppe, kI might pay $2.50 per cup. That comes out to $110-$115 I'm NOT paying the barista.

I consider McDonalds fairly decent, and the $1 senior coffee (about 8 oz) is not a bad deal.

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Posted by: rhgc ( )
Date: February 06, 2018 05:07PM

Wendy's here beats McDonalds if you are ancient like me: 12 oz. cups are FREE.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2018 05:23PM by rhgc.

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Posted by: Mårv Fråndsen ( )
Date: February 06, 2018 05:17PM

Faster, cleaner, more economical and better coffee too.

Hint: Boil water with an electric kettle. It is all automated and you get an LED light show for entertainment value.


How anyone can recommend instant (unless you have to, which I do too) is beyond me. It is not comparable and brand and price does not seem to help it. But that is another story.

Welcome to coffee land. It is a good place.

*Asterisk - coffee effect apparently depends on how fast you metabolize it. Fast metabolizers enjoy the health effects and are not bothered by the caffeine. Slower metabolizers don't have such a happy story. I got lucky.

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Posted by: rhgc ( )
Date: February 06, 2018 05:25PM

I'm lucky also. I can sleep immediately after drinking a double coffee. No sleep deprivation from the caffeine.

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