where one spouse leaves the church stay together?

I've always been a to-each-their-own kind of guy and can see a life with my TBM wife working out cause she's awesome WAY beyond the church. Breaking it to her when I graduate BYU in April (i've been gradually letting on to it already) but I'm just curious for stats.

I doubt any real stats have been collected but any thoughts?

I doubt there are any meaningful stats as well.

From observing the stories/people on this board, I'd say it's about 40-50% -- that's how many couple stay together when one completely leaves the church and no longer attends...so around 50-60% of couples break up under the strain.

I hope your situation works out no matter what the stats :)

Same. I've heard in general that relationships are less successful when partners have different religious beliefs. I can imagine the strains it would put on one. Especially with kids... Luckily none for us yet. Holding off till I get my sh*t together with med school and leaving the cult

My first cousin divorced her husband after he got baptised and realized he didn't like the church. They are both very happy now. I was engaged to a TBM and she broke off the engagement when she realized I did not want to have 10 kids and be her slave for life. I dodged such a bullet there.
Both of these stories turned out well because the wife was honest and knew what she wanted. I was too scared to do the right thing and cancel the engagement.
I hope that your wife will be honest with herself and make the decision for you.
I don't know of any man making and major decisions in a marriage, other than what job he does. It is always "yes Dear". Your life's happiness is in your wife's hands now.

There is a power balance in every marriage. It sounds like your experience is that a wife has more power.

That is certainly not the case in every marriage.

My husband only says "yes dear" as a joke. I've had too little power for a very long time.

In my husband's parent's marriage, she is too controlling. She tells him what to do and when to do it.

In my parent's marriage, my dad tried to control the thoughts in my mom's head.

The power balance my get out of whack for a while, but she's NOT 100% in charge of how things go.

Anecdotally,I did it but it wasn't easy. Lots of communication, crying, and hurt. But we had been married over 15 years and had 5 kids.

Of the 2 exmos I know both are still with their TBM wives.

I am one of them and it doesn't mean their was not a 'significant discussion about divorce' before agreeing to stay together.

Spiritist,

Define "significant discussion" about divorce please.

mightyb

At first my TBM took it as a joke that I was quitting the church ---- I was always a leader. So she seemed to 'annoy' me by the things she said and how she acted around me when in a group of Mormons.

After a month of trying to deal with it. We had a 'Sit down to Meet Jesus' discussion. Where I told her I was never going back to Mormonism and she/we would have to get use to that. I felt she and the TBM part of the family was treating me different and pointed out a number of incidences where I was a little upset with what was said.

I brought up one option was 'divorce' we had enough money to make it so we were both ok and the kids were gone. As far as the family, well that would be a we will see how it goes type thing.

She cried and apologized if I was upset at her actions. She promised she would do 'quite a lot' to keep our marriage together.

We agreed with some things that seemed 'fair' ---- to both of us. Some things were a bit personal.

I think the whole thing (confronting the issue directly) actually 'strengthened our marriage' because we found out our marriage was based on much more than just the church plan to get married, have kids, and go to the C kingdom. It got down to why we both wanted to make our marriage continue to work and how far we would both go to 'commit' to that!

We really never talked about that in the past.

I think how 'insignificant the church' was to our relationship/marriage/family really came out clearly to both of us during that discussion.

However, she is still a TBM, doesn't pay any tithing, does callings but minor usually as we travel a little bit on Sundays.

Life has been 'pretty good' since that discussion and we have had very little to argue about since then.

Maybe you could beat the odds:

You and your wife could both practice "unconditional love," something Nelson is against, and that Mormons are never taught.

You and your wife could put each other first. (TSCC is also against this.

You could weight the scales in your favor, by giving your wife a great life outside the cult. I know I seem pragmatic, but give her attention, love, appreciation, social prestige (you will be a doctor someday) and above all give her what Mormons value the most: MONEY.

Mormons wouldn’t know unconditional love if it crawled out of their ass and waved hello. It’s a part of them that’s suppressed by their religion. Very powerful brainwashing. That’s why the low success rate.

^^^^ THIS. ^^^^

So, I got out, fine. But how do I learn about this "unconditional love" you talk about, given that I spent so much time in as a TBM? I'm already damaged, so how do I "start over" or whatever it takes?

dp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, I got out, fine. But how do I learn about this
> "unconditional love" you talk about, given that I
> spent so much time in as a TBM? I'm already
> damaged, so how do I "start over" or whatever it
> takes?

It takes a lot of time and effort is what i have learned. Since nobody around you knew unconditional love you have to feel and figure it out for yourself.

It has taken me a lot of therapy to even feel like a real human being and i have been out a year and 4 months. You are not even close to being normal right when you leave the cult but you don't really know that because nobody is normal in the cult. It takes a lot more than physically leaving to be normal.

Babyloncansuckit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mormons wouldn’t know unconditional love if it
> crawled out of their ass and waved hello. It’s a
> part of them that’s suppressed by their
> religion. Very powerful brainwashing. That’s why
> the low success rate.

You crack me up babylon every f#cking time. The brainwashing is second to none in my opinion.

One of the challenges, but you are ahead of the game already familiar with Mormonism, is that the church is all-encompassing and demanding. depending on how much you are into it.

Honesty is needed here, for sure, and discussion. John Dehlin, Phd in psychology has a website called Mormonstories.com which has interviews of couples in your sitution that I think could be helpful to you.

thanks for the website I'm checking it out now

I’m still with my wife. I realized the fraud about 12 years ago. Lots of tears, some slightly heated discussions over the years. My wife finally read Grant Palmer’s book two years ago, read the CES Letter, realized Smith was a sex predator and her shelf collapsed.

We now attend a nondenominational Christian church and in our almost 25 years of marriage, we’ve never been more happy than the last two.

Me (2 years ago): "All of the evidence points to the church being a fraud. The Book of Mormon is made up, there is no evidence to Joseph Smith ever receiving divine revelation. It's all fake. After five years, I've come to this conclusion".

Wife (with a big smile on her face): "I can't believe it took you so long to figure this out! I knew this 15 years ago when you baptized me and I never believed their claim of being the only true church on the earth!"

Me (surprised and hurt): "What? You faked everything for 15 years? Why didn't you tell me? I'm upset that you lived a lie for so long! What else don't I know about you?"

Wife: "Remember when you forbade me from reading those anti-LDS websites in Japan? You got really upset, right? What was I supposed to do? I just had no choice but to go along with things and marry you in the Tokyo temple despite not believing it. I saw that you were brainwashed but I knew it was good for you to remain in the church. I married you because of your principles. Every guy in Japan is a drunk and cheats on their wife. I knew that with you at least I could have something different. What's wrong with that?"

Me: "I am sorry that I put you through all of this. Well, it's better to figure this out now at 39 years old than to figure it out in another twenty".

Wife: "So what do you want to do?"

Me: "Move out of the ward this summer and not mention a thing to anyone".

The rest is history... and we are better for it!

BTW, I was the one who baptized my wife into the church, so I was very proud to be the one to take her out of it! Only to find she was never a true part of it all along. But it makes sense now in hindsight with her never reading the BoM but sticking to her Baptist Bible. She never prayed vocally in church. Took off her garments when she felt like it. I should have known!

paisley70 what a dream world you live in haha. I'm happy for you. Wish when I started opening up to my wife that she agreed on impact!

My husband married me in the Salt Lake temple in 1984 and was never very active.

When I left the church in '05, I badgered him into telling me if he believed.

He never believed. It made no sense, but as a small kid, what are you going to do? He learned to play along.

He had planned to NOT marry a Mormon girl. Part of me thinks it's sweet he married me anyway, but part of me is still angry about the deception.

There are probably a ton of Mormon marriages where one person doesn't really believe.

You are right Dorothy. Deception is worse than a lie. I must admit that if I think about it, I am really hurt by it. If I was still in the church, it would be cause for divorce. I was a very hardcore believer for the duration of my marriage. Thankfully, she didn't come out until after the fact, but it still hurts. How long can our spouses keep such a big secret going? It feels like a violation of the marriage covenant.

When I discovered my husband did not believe and was supporting me anyway. Mormon, huh, fine. Inconvenient. No? Candles incense crystals? Fine. Crucifix oh ok. Beads a Mandela, oh. Oh uh walking now? Try meditation oh um. He's so polite it's lije bar b q he always lines that. Once recently he said to me he likes the art color creativity love communication friendship whatever questions answer I seek. I think the day that convert took me through a temple was a very good day apparently he made a commitment to me and saw through it was a cult. That's love that's unconditional . Loving me anyways , the church, it was just part of how I was raised/ he celebrated or persisted in grooming he cultivated parts of life not doctrine. Maybe he's psychic or just persistent I can't understand love that's so unconditional.... I was raised too much in the church and I'm not used to it. It confuses me. But I learned some people do not require mental unity or exact identical talents or obedience to some strangers in Salt Lake and yet they love. It's inconceivable you can't out think it explain it justify it, there's just so many scriptures and conference talks preaching not to expect it, to boot not to make it or try to generate it- unconditional love. Church leaders want love defined by them controlled by them, do nt l et church leaders

Define the dialogue.
I say: "let's defy th em. " Accept unconditional love offered by partners who don't believe who admit they did not believe , rather than labeling them deceptive shaming them accept the u conditional love which has been offered you, demonstrated to you. - Painting /temple 1982 still married. & While I'm probably not a particularly admurabl example, love understanding and a hand up surmount amazing obstacles. Married love why can't it be more unconditional
! Why has the prophet taught us that a spouse loving us hiding lack of testimony is "deceptive" instead of "noble" "mighty valor warrior for love romantic inconceivable compassion steady bedrock persistent mighty format of unconditional love, outside the matrix of what Mormon dogma rocks beyond templ e time. They're like demoing infinity to those with their eyes shut dialing eternity on a rotary phone.

You are right. The unconditional love trumped any emotion I had about her willful deception in this case. I don't remain angry, but thankful. I'm just lucky that the timing was right, otherwise, it would have been a different story (such is life living in a cult). I finally came around. Huh, there you go!

I'm not quite in the situation you describe, since I am a nevermo; but my wife assumed, despite my insistence to the contrary, that I would immediately convert and we would eventually be sealed in the temple.

We've been married five years now...we're celebrating our anniversary this month...and she's finally accepted that I am never converting.

The only arguments we've had, and there have been many, were about my refusal to convert. She would frequently mention divorce and how we shouldn't have married. She would say that she has to choose between the church and me.

I would just as frequently point out to her that she's the only one talking divorce, despite the fact that she has repeatedly said that feels happier and more loved in our few years of marriage than she ever did married for 30 years to a returned missionary. I've made no demands on her regarding the church, other than not being subjected to a full-court press to convert me.

We have settled into a agree-to-disagree posture regarding Mormonism. I don't tell her anything I've learned or feel about the church unless she asks. I go with her to sacrament meetings so she doesn't have to go alone, but her own attendance has practically been non-existent this past year, though she insists to the missionaries, HT, VT, and bishop that she still has a strong testimony.

Testimonies are much easier when they aren't looked at much.

My friend pushed me to get back to the temple. I decided it was time to "get back my testimony".

I dusted off that old BOM and was horrified.

There are a lot of factors to this question, many of them beyond the quality of the couple snd their relationship. The extended family, the Ward and Stake are powerful outside forces that go to determining the outcome of this scenario.

Also, there’s a time lag between one partner leaving and the other partner leaving as well. In my own case, young like you with three infants in tow, the time lag was 3-5 very precarious years, filled with many moments where a Bishop or sister-in-law or old, wise family friend or etc could easily have changed the outcome. One wrong move on my part and the gig would have been up.

The outcome was good, however. My spouse was able to get out physically in 3-5 years and mentally in about 10 years. We raised our kids as non-mormons and to this day (they’re in their 20s now), when comparing themselves with their Mormon cousins, they are demonstrably grateful to us.

We were lucky. I wish you luck as well.

Human

TSCC is a stat collector but you need your own. STAT!

Hey mightybuffalo, I remember your initial post very well, as I'm also a BYU grad. Here's what I think and what I have experienced with my family and friends...

You're young and don't have any kids. Your wife may be advised by her family to run away while she still can - no kids, young and etc.
I saw this when my cousin married a never mo. Many people discouraged her from it, but she said she prayed about him coming along. After five years she gave up. She wanted to have kids and told her husband to either get baptized or leave. I still think it was her family, who put this idea in his head. And he was such a great guy! Nobody cared about that tho. He wasn't a member, so he was automatically a bad person.

I'm assuming your wife is sealed to you, which may actually discourage her from getting divorced. If she wants to remarry a TBM, this could be a deal breaker for the guy. Again, I heard plenty of stories like that.

I'm sure your spouse is an intelligent woman and I hope it won't take her too long to discover the truth. I seriously hope everyday that something ground breaking about TSCC will be discovered. Something nobody can deny (some people will still deny it). But smart people will run away from TSCC as fast as they can.

Thanks goldrose.

It's going to be interesting to see how everything unfolds once I get my degree and get out of the provo bubble.

I seriously hope for the same thing, though I also recognize that much of what we have is quite undeniable! Blows my mind that people know some of this stuff and still manage to push aside the cognitive dissonance and take part in the lies. Blows my mind.

D&C 74 verse one

&

1 Corinthians 7 verse 14


these two scriptures should ensure couples do not divorce over changes of belief, but that doesn't stop mormons laying on the pressure to obtain that coveted place in the celestial kingdom.

Not christians, not biblical, not a cult.

We ended up leaving together. I first discovered that it was all BS when reading about the book of Abraham on Wikipedia. He called me on his lunch break and I was in a panic telling him that tscc was all made up by joe. It was tense for a while between us but I asked him for his help in looking at the information. So he was trying to show me where I was wrong and tscc was true. But that just led to him seeing the truth. So he officially left a couple months after me. Looking back I was very naive about how it works when one discovers the truth. I didn’t even know what shunning was but I soon got a very hard life lesson. I’m glad that I didn’t know or I would’ve been too scared to even talk to him about it. I sincerely was wanting his help in figuring it all out.

Anon, for you it was the BoA that did it for you, anything else that specifically erked you? I'm curious if sharing some details first rather than others will help my wife to see through the REAL mist of darkness.

Know what I mean? From a female's perspective (a conservative one if possible-- my wife is very conservative) what pieces of info most profoundly impacted your leaving?

It’s been 5 years so I’m trying to remember... the truth about the BOA was definetly shocking and so obvious. For me I no longer believed after 5 minutes of reading about it and looking at the hieroglyphics. Then it just snowballed from there. The copying of the temple stuff from the free masons was really upsetting. I remember looking at maps from the 1800s that showed city names that were copied right into the BOM. The fact about the Hill Cumorah having zero evidence of any historical artifacts, weapons or human remains. Joe smiths many changing first visions. His diary writings about drinking after his so called revelation that no one should drink. The young girls that he married and the wives that he married after sending their husbands away. And the hat and the rock thing. That is what comes to mind. For me seeing the facts on paper was just undeniable. Hope that Is helpful and everything works out well for you.

I started reading about polygamy. I have way too much self respect to think that THAT nonsense is ever okay.

I'm not aware of any solid data. My best guess based on stories shared on this board and elsewhere is 50/50. Of the couples who make it, some do follow their spouses out of the church.

I've been out for over a decade. TBM DH was terribly upset at first, fearing that we would not be together "in eternity." (We were never sealed in the temple.)

I assured him that if there was an afterlife, I would find him. No two ways about that.

He stopped going to church, not wanting to cause a rift. He has attended on his own a few times since, but is repeatedly shocked at how shallow the church is.

I want through a phase of attending the Presbyterian church I was raised in, but burned out on that, as well. DH was warmly welcomed there, invited to join a lunch group of retired guys. He attended several times. He told them he was not a member of their church. They told him that they knew, but invited him because he seemed like a nice guy. This acceptance - so contrary to anything he experienced in the Mo-church - just blew him away.

Although I have lost any religious belief whatsoever, we have deep respect for each other's beliefs (or lack thereof) and are probably the most long-married, deeply in love couples I know.

Forget the stats. Live an honest life.

DW left 10 years before me. And I wore my patriarical piety as a badge of honor for those ten years. I was an ass.

If you really love her, then stick with her. But know that you caused the new tension. Ride it out.

If she loves you she'll ride it out too. If she loves the church/family/social more than you, she'll bail. And you'll be able to start over.

Go for it as soon as BYU doesn't hold you hostage.

Awwwww....you were an Ass... with a capital "A".... but you were mine and I wasn't going to let the cult win nor any other woman have you and all the things that make you so wonderful! I'm so glad you found your way with me. I hope you know that I love you with all my heart! <3

Who cares about stats? You're concerned about you (either two or one). The LDS 'church' is a wedge between truth and false. Always remember that. They would rather lose one than two. [BIG] Family is just a word they throw around because it means a lot more $, bodies, free labor, etc.

Some marriages do survive but others don't. It depends on the individuals and if both are more committed to each other than to the organization.

Cheryl--

Funny how TBM's call it their commitment to God first but you're so right, it's a commitment to the organization. The commitment to the social inclusion. A commitment to their own brainwashing.

I always hated what they taught me in YM, that God is #1 and wife is #2.

Quit prioritizing my life for me plz

Robert Kirby and his wife. She left and it seems their marriage is still going strong.

tumwater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Robert Kirby and his wife. She left and it seems
> their marriage is still going strong.


Yah, AS IF Robert Kirby is actually a full on devoted truly believing MORmON member........ who really does not think that MORmONISM is big joke ( eye roll emoji right here)

your comment would probably make Kirby laugh !!!

Wait til after u graduate from BYU and get your transcript. Then brareal the news. You don't want to lose your degree which u worked so hard for over tssc because you would be letting them win in that way.

and BYU will certainly rape you in that very vindictive way as given the chance, just check out what Charles Larson said about what BYU did to him. Video of Charles' presentation to the ex mo conference at the Ex mo site on youtube.

mightybuffalo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> how many marriages
> where one spouse leaves the church stay together?
>
>
> I've always been a to-each-their-own kind of guy
> and can see a life with my TBM wife working out
> cause she's awesome WAY beyond the church.

That is how you see it. It may, or may NOT be how she will see it. You are going to find out, to your credit because you have chosen to be more genuine than so many MORmONS who cave in to maintain the phony MORmON status quo, however being genuine does NOT mean an easy path, just a more genuine one.

In Marriage, one instantly becomes a controlling majority as that one decides that a marriage that they are in needs to be terminated. IF she turns out to be that much of a MORmON, since you want to live as a more genuine than phony MORmON person, then you are better off with out her !!!!

> Breaking it to her when I graduate BYU in April
> (i've been gradually letting on to it already)

and just as I alluded to earlier, she may not be letting on to her plans/ intentions to dump any spouse that can not remain faithFOOL to her "THE" (MORmON) church, because that really is the MORmON solution for situations like yours, or maybe she did let on and you just are NOT listening.

> I'm just curious for stats.

The stats will not really mean much of anything to you as your own situation is resolved..... to whatever extent that it gets resolved. It will just be whatever happened to you, regardless of whether you beat the odds, or not, one way or the other. That because MORmONISM has had so much pre established dominance in your life, that you had zero control over!!!!! It is really just a crap shoot whether or not your marriage will stay intact more than anything else!!!

My X (files) spouse and I both quit MORmONISM, and our marriage imploded ANYWAY, because for her the marriage was totally based on me being her MORmON marriage partner. When that did not pan out, she had to get out. The fact that I had married her for what I thought was her ( HUGE MISTAKE ON MY PART) did not matter for fecal matter as things imploded at her dictate. FWIW I do not miss her at all, but it is too bad that she had to poison the children against me and against her own parents in order to feel justified and validated through out the matter. I wonder IF the kids will ever figure out how much that they have been mislead, but the one thing that is certain is that even IF they do manage to achieve that realization, it will be FAR TOO LATE when it does happen IF it does happen!!!! - remember that deal about you having virtually zero control in your outcome ????


the thing that really pissed me off is when the MORmON judge acted AS IF it was my fault that the marriage had imploded, when I was the very last person who should have been blamed. In fact, IF I should have been blamed for anything, it was hanging on way too long -just as the MORmON religion recommends, just as two faced MORmON religion recommends dumping an unfaithful partner. I learned the hard way, that when a person hangs on to the bitter end, then all they are left with is a bitter ending!!!! The fact is that, between the negative influence of MORmONISM on her that MORmONISM insists is so positive, and the negative impact of MORmONISM on me that MORmONISM insists is positive, there was NEVER any chance that our marriage was going to work out, especially as I chose to be more genuine than phony MORmON. It was just a quirky deal that we so unfortunately ever got together at all. ......Sorry kids! .....and *THANKS A LOT* MORmON parents for making sure that there were tons of unavoidable toxic MORmONISM interjected into my life so that I never had any chance of having anything but a dysfunctional marriage !!!

(good luck!)

Thanks smirkorama,

Means a lot. I feel like she wants to think that she can handle it, it'll be really interesting to see if she actually can. One of my brothers recently left the church, opting for a more 'genuine' life as you put it. His TBM wife took it REALLY hard for the first year and a half but has come around more recently. Not completely but getting there.

DIfference is they have 3 kids. Good incentive to stay together.
Me and mine? A dog and a hopelessly romantic husband-me.

still together with DW, over 50 years now, I've been out for about 20 years (stopped all attendance around 2000), and DW claims to be tbm, but really just loves Jesus, her kids, and genealogy. She only attends now if family is near, which means rarely. She wants nothing to do with ward activities and assignments, altho she will go VT now and then. Doesn't tithe, recommend expired. Her Mo defenses and hostility are always close to the surface, so I watch what I say. Other than that, we get along well.

My wife never left ... but over the years she is becoming much more of a social mormon, and she feels the need to stay in for fear of hurting her parents.

When I left our relationship went into a serious crisis that endured for a couple years. We were very very close to divorce. Somehow, thankfully, our love overcame our religious views (I'm now very atheist). During those two years of trouble I did learn just how shallow my wife's beliefs in mormonism really were. I was very passionate about my beliefs and needing to know and understand all aspect of my religious foundations, which lead me thru stages of pretty normal TBMness, into strong fundamentalist TBMness (believing the modern church had been going astray), and of course my more fundamentalist beliefs led me further into the teachings (and shinanigans) of church history and I saw very clearly that "getting back to the roots" of something that is rotten to the core was ridiculous. My wife endured all of that -- and her endurance helped me to "endure" her continued social interest in Club Mormonism.

After those bad two years -- we are now at peace with each other -- and in fact, we are much happier together now than we have ever been before. We have been together now 34 years and very much still in love with each other.