Out in the garage cleaning up, and have the TV on to some random channel that starts a mini series on the entire Arias-Alexander debacle.

Glossing over the sexual relationship aspect of the relationship, seems to be the case now. Apparently, it is OK in mormondom for the male to have sexual intercourse in his search for the perfect wife, but not the female.

You can apparently reclaim the higher moral ground now by trying to regain your temple recommend if the female slinks over to your house and climbs into bed with you. I mean, you are just a human, ma and changing your locks or telling said female you don't want to have sex with her does not work.

It seems the entire act of lying to friends about a current sexual relationship, including two other women you are dating at the time is perfectly fine, as it sets you up for some post doctorate lying when you get to be a mormon leader, and espouse religious doctrine.

I'm certainly not defending or in any way trying to justify the horrific things that this woman did, but the whole idea that he was a perfect, devoutly religious, and wholesome man looking for a wife is such bullshit.

Yes, it seems most script writers just have to write things so there's a totally "good" character and an opposite "evil" character. They don't think the show will get good enough ratings unless they have that juxtaposition.

It's like what was done with the movie "Snowden." He was made out to be some really great guy.

I watch reviews on youtube that compare film/series portrayals to the actual facts and script writing sure is lousy. One of the channels I like to watch is "Cynical Historian," and another is "History Buffs."

I'm certainly not defending or in any way trying to justify the horrific things that this woman did, but the whole idea that he was a perfect, devoutly religious, and wholesome man looking for a wife is such bullshit.

^^^ Thank YOU!!! Exactly.

I am watching it and thought it pretty fair. It certainly pointed out that Travis was not living up to his church's teachings and that he was a very sexual person who cheated on his girlfriend, Lisa with Jodi. He was the victim and didnt deserve what he got. He wasnt perfect,but he was the victim.

Yes.

I was interested because it was talked about on here several years ago and I didn't know much about it.

It wasn't very clear on his sinning or church teachings. Some of the language used by the lady with dark hair who was shouting at the camera when she would talk was pretty hilarious in describing mormonism. I can't remember what she said, but it had something to do with when Jody got baptized.

I do admit that I knew mormon guys who slept around, but wanted a "pure" wife.

Anxious to see the last episode.

Ive been watching it. I think they were clear that he was living a double life. They weren’t married though and Jody should have just walked away.

I'm not going to excuse Jodi's actions in any way, but I will say that she had a profound misunderstanding of Mormon culture. Travis was never going to marry her, and IMO he used her terribly. But your average woman would shrug it off, learn her lesson, and move on. Travis was a jerk, but even jerks don't deserve to be murdered.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2018 06:46PM by summer.

I agree. She definitely did not understand the Mormon mindset.

Travis'actions were despicable. He was manipulative and a two faced liar.

I still think Jodi deserved only 2nd degree murder.

Why, may I ask?

She should have been given the death penalty. She missed it by one juror voting for her to live, it was 11-1.

link please!???

travis didn't deserved to be slaughtered, he was a very sexual person who was also fucked over by the Mormon church. what a tragic life to have to endure shit like that. I hope travis is happy now instead of putting up with Mormon shit.

Here is the AZ law:

"A person commits first degree murder if . . . intending or knowing that the person's conduct will cause death, the person causes the death of another person. . . with premeditation. . ."

Did Arias intentionally and with premeditation cause Travis's death?

That's it. That's the legal question.

“She dreamed and schemed of being responsible for his death, as a healthy mental exercise, but then accidentally put the plan into real life action! Then realizing she would be unfairly railroaded onto death row, and knowing herself to be innocent of it, she felt justified in trying to beat the first degree rap.”

- - “Free Jodi and win a date!” page 2, line 17

I find myself experiencing a stupor of thought. . .

I get that a lot... That, and being slapped for impertinence.

Wait, I feel something coming on.

It's. . .

It's. . .



"Tao = MC^2!"



Dammit, EOD! See what you did?

or....

Tao, divided by matter equals the speed of light, squared!!!

Dammit, why couldn't we have seen that sooner!!!! We've solved faster than light travel!!

The speed of light, squared, is a BIG number!

He did not deserve to be murdered. I do think he was extremely manipulative and caused her crazy to become even more crazy. If she hadn't been crazy to start with, his actions would have just ruined some poor girls self esteem. He played with her emotionally, which is very cruel. He was no saint.

I agree that he was no saint, but the picture of Travis that you are talking about came from a very biased witness and a known liar, Jodi.

If she had taken that camera with her, ruined the memory card and thrown the camera into the Pacific Ocean she would have most likely gotten away with it.

Not a chance. Travis' friends named her as a suspect to the police before the camera was even found and there was too much other evidence she left at the scene.

That is true.

Travis is hardly the first man in history who slept with a girl he didnt love or want to marry. That is not an action that demands the death penalty. His rejection of Jodi as a wife may have been influenced by the cburch or maybe he saw how butty she was. He should have broken it off completely, but Jodi made that hard by not giving up and stalking him. I would say they both had some issues, but I am not taking Jodi's word on Travis either

We could usefully reverse your statement: "there are many women who have slept with men they didn't love or want to marry."

That statement is true. What would we feel if some man were angry that a woman seduced and used him, then stalked him and killed him brutally? Would anyone be defending him? I think not.

The empathy for Arias and the sense that her pre-meditated murder of Alexander was partially excusable strikes me as sexism. A rejected woman's homicidal rage is more understandable than a man's.

Now add the fact that he converted her to the mormon cult.

Do you still feel he didn't deserve the death penalty?

(That's a joke.) (Mostly.)

The other element of this, although you may disagree, is that Jodie was hardly the naif she claims. She had vastly more experience in "affairs of the heart," if one can use that euphemism, than he did.

She found his weakness and used it to manipulate him to the hilt. There are, I'm sure, many men who would find it difficult if not impossible to pull from such a woman.

She was hardly out of her depth.

This was a long time ago, so I went to wiki to refresh my memory. It says that Travis' friends emailed Jodi (the psych for Jodi read the emails at the trial) that he had abused previous girlfriends, and advised her to leave.

I'm not sure if wiki is correct, but if it is, he had several girlfriends before Jodi.

I'm sure Jodi had other men break up with her before this, but if a guy converted me to his religion, I'd think he was serious. This one could have hit her harder than the others.

You make good points.

I'd add, though, that she had a number of long-term relationships and lived with some men, particularly the one near. . . Ventana? Carmel? Was his name Darrell? Arias was also a player, known as such, as witnessed by that man in LA and others. She demonstrated her experience by introducing Travis to a lot of new sexual activities. She showed the degree to which she was capable of separating sex from emotion when she went from the man in SLC to Travis (for his murder) and then back to the man in SLC. This was not an inexperienced woman.

I agree that Alexander was, for Arias, exceptionally difficult to separate from. But I don't for a minute think that was because he converted her to Mormonism. I saw little evidence that she was truly converted, nor that she changed her lifestyle substantially because of her baptism. To the contrary, I think Travis felt guilty for what he was doing with her and tried to make up for it by offering what he saw as "the blessings" of the gospel. I think she went along with it because there was no downside and considerable upside since it would increase the psychological pressure on Travis to stay with her.

What made it difficult to leave was that he represented basically everything she wanted. Darren was a middle-aged man with kids and limited professional prospects. Travis was young, surrounded by friends and admirers, and apparently on the road to riches. The player in LA was middle-aged, perhaps wealthy, but not socially prominent.

To Jodie, I believe, Travis represented the perfect catch. That's why she worked so hard to "get" him and why she was so infuriated when he tried to escape. I really don't think Mormonism itself was a significant consideration (although she probably liked that sense of community as well).

I think she was your basic hormonal convert. She saw Travis as marriage material, so she converted. Since he played fast and loose with the rules, I don't think she ever really "got" Mormonism.

She was/is a borderline with limited empathy and a utilitarian mentality. Such people don't "convert" to things, they temporarily adopt things that are advantageous and then move on when doing so is convenient. So I agree she didn't understand Mormonism, not on an emotional level.

I also agree she thought Alexander was "marriage material," which is the point I was trying to make. I just think she felt that way on material grounds. She wanted the lifestyle he appeared to offer and was unwilling to give it up. So she tried manipulation, aggression against other women, etc., and when confronted with an insuperable problem she killed.

It is the violence--the intimidation of a past girlfriend, the implicit threats to Travis's friend and his wife when they warned Travis, the damage to the car--that differentiates Arias from other jilted women (and jilted men). Her lack of restraint, her willingness to violate others' boundaries, made her dangerous.

Rather than go weep, talk to friends and therapists, and move on, Arias plotted and then implemented a murder. Then she went on her way with no significant sense of guilt or trauma. Arias was no ordinary jilted lover; she was no ordinary well-adjusted woman.