Adam, the fact that you didn't serve a mission means that you DID stand up to your parents and/or church authorities at least once in your life. In that regard, you're a better man than I. I lacked the nerve to assert myself and went on the mission even though I knew it was the wrong thing to do. Parents are daunting figures to children, and their influence sometimes continues into adulthood. Learning to assert oneself to one's parents can take half a lifetime. Don't give up in your pursuit of independence just because you've slipped up once or twice.

Think about it for a moment. Your life could be even worse than it presently seems. You could have been coerced to serve a mission. You might have been at the mercy of a tyrannical mission president and bullying district and zone leaders, and your life might have been screwed up beyond what it is now. You might have contracted intestinal parasites in some third-world country that might have plagued you to this day in addition to your other health issues. My sister's nephew lost three feet of his ileum because of unsanitary conditions and a mission president who refused to allow him to seek medical care. Whatever is one's situation, there are probably wways that it could be worse. My point is not to make you feel guilty for feeling that your life sucks as it is. Still, it's good to remember that you've done at least a few things right and self-preserving in your life, for which you should congratulate yourself.

Not everything that happened as a result of my mission was bad. I picked up carpentry skills that I still use on a regular basis, and I speak Spanish far more fluently than I would have had the sum of my instruction been classroom Spanish. Still, by and large the mission was a waste of my time. I could have begun my medical education and career two years earlier had I skipped out on the mission. My initial mission president was very hard on my psyche and drove me to deep despair. My family is relatively well-connected in church circles. I hate to think of how the bastard mission president treated the children of nobodies in the church and the converts who served under him. Had he been there much longer, I might have gone off the deep end. I could have studied in Spain or Argentina for a year and would have walked away with the same Spanish-speaking skills I now have, plus I would not have delayed my education for two years. All things considered, my mission offered far more drawbacks than benefits. Going directly through undergraduate education, joining the military, or signing up with the Peace Corps all would have been preferable alternatives to serving an LDS mission. You allowed yourself not to be goaded into wasting two years of your life. Good for you!

Many missionaries are just like you are and I am in many ways in that they were unable to be straight with their parents when it counted. It seems rather judgmental of you to hate all of them them so vociferously when many of them went through what you and I did. In some cases, what they're going through is worse, as they're in foreign lands with lousy food, no clean water supply, substandard lodging, poor-to-non-existent medical care, and at at the mercy of tyrannical mission presidents and their sadistic underlings. I'm not suggesting that you have any obligation to spend time with them or to listen to the preaching or proselytizing of missionaries. In fact, if they violate your physical boundaries by showing up at your homw when they've been asked not to come, you always have the option of turning the garden hose on them as Cheryl did.

I am saying that they are people -- usually very young -- just like you and I were. I'm glad you're getting the help that you need, but somewhere down the line, you have a choice to make. You need either to live with your affiliation with the LDS church because you feel that you may need the practical and financial assistance they may provide, or you need to cut ties with them. The hanging on for potential benefits while decrying them as the virtual Antchrist isn't healthful and isn't going to help in your recovery.

As far as litigation or prosecution are concerned, you can check into statutes of limitations in terms of the guy who tried to choke you and also in terms of any church authority who had knowledge of the incident and failed to report it. There's nothing to prevent you from suing to reclaim tithing money, either, but your chances of prevailing are somewhere between nil and zero. How many tithing receipts or cancelled checks have you saved? You would need physical evidence beyond "I qualified for a temple recommend and I earned $50,000 that year; therefore I MUST have given the church at least 5 grand." Furthermore, the tithing receipts state clearly that all contributions are voluntary. You CAN sue, but you're highly unlikely to recover.

You have to do what is right for you, but my recommendation would be to take whatever funds are available from whatever source you can get them in order to regain your physical and mental health, but then to walk away from the church without looking back, which would include ceasing to blame the church for everything that is wrong in your life.

Regarding parents, it was sort of a roll of the dice in terms of with whom we got stuck. Some of us were born to parents who locked us in closets until we were sixteen years old and eventually found dead.Others of us benefited from the most generous and nurturing parents on the planet. Most of us fell somewhere in between. Except for the very most evil of parents, for whom I can offer no excuse or explanation except that evil exists in this world, or the most ignorant of parents, who can only be disclaimed with the explanation that even sub-morons can, unfortunately, reproduce, most of our parents tried to do a better job than their own parents did. Some succeeded and some did not. For those of us who were the beneficiaries of cruel or incompetent parenting, all we can do is try to end the cycle either by not reproducing or by doing everything in our power to be better parents to our children than our own parents were to us. (Mom and Dad, if you read this and happen to recognize the author as your son, please be aware that while you weren't perfect, because no parent can be perfect, I consider myself incredibly fortunate to have been raised by you.)

Adam, I wish you physical and mental health, happiness, financial stability, companionship, longevity, and peace in your life. That's all anyone can really hope for, and all anyone really needs.

Great, fatherly advice!

It was not aimed at me, but I took it to heart.

I was horribly abused and beaten by my Mormon brother and husband, and I found a good non-Mormon therapist who helped me recover from the PTSD. I was too young and helpless to fight back, at first, but as soon as I was old enough, I left home, never to return. My abusive husband was a con-man, who hid his history of assault and battery, and I was able to divorce him without him killing me.

When I was a TBM single divorced mother, the Mormon leaders bullied, and physically hit and shoved my sons, and the bishop's oldest son molested my little 10-year-old girl. I still feel guilty that I put my children in harm's way, by forcing them to go to a church that is really an evil cult.

After my children and I became inactive, I was verbally threatened and maligned by Mormon men, in front of my children, in our own house. My children let them in, because the Mormons had taught them to do as they were told. These were men we knew--our home teachers, the bishopric, my son's friend's father and the neighbor across the street. Mormon men travel in groups of two or three, and bang on your door, unannounced, late at night.

My children and I rallied around each other, in standing up to these creeps, and on three occasions, we actually told them to leave. We're good people, and we're proud of each other. It brought us closer together, and, together, we resigned from the cult.

As you can see, it does help to give ourselves credit for standing up to abusers, and overcoming the effects of abuse. Often, it takes a lot of work. My children and I did walk away without looking back (except I keep coming back to RFM). We do blame the cult for the abuse we suffered, but we don't blame it for other things. We don't give the church credit for anything, either. Our lives have been very, very good.

Mother who knows, your story is similar to mine. I do so respect you and your sweet children for pushing through and not giving up. What a winning attitude!

PS-I did serve a foreign mission. I sincerely thought I was helping people. I still suffer today from contracting double pneumonia and an amoeba in a cold place with no heat and insufficient medical care. Just sayin.

That sounds absolutely horrid.

There was a busy body woman from where we attended when my children were young who recommended I hire a SAHM from the church to watch my children, because she was as 'devoted' a mother anyone could be.

What a farce that was! She was addicted to narcotics, cigarettes, etc. When my children were in her care I could count on some calamity happening.

She was horrible in every way. Some years after we stopped attending there my son told me one day out of the blue that her daughters who were slightly older than he is was sexually assaulting him while the mother was locked inside her room ignoring her children, because she was stoned out of her mind.

By then we'd moved away from there, and it was only then he felt safe telling me this. I was livid, and ready to strangle both her and her deranged husband (who doubled as the ward clerk.)

I made phone calls from hundreds of miles away to try and find what rights did we have. There was problem/s with the statute of limitations, minor issues, etc that I was not able to get around. Or the fact there was no evidence since so much time had elapsed before I was informed by my then middle school child.

If I'd been anywhere near that family it would've been me in jail for vigilante justice.

Some of my friends from that ward where we went told me since I left there the couple's children had been removed by Child Protective Services. The woman's mother reported her own daughter for neglect and child abuse. Good for her!

The locals from the LDS church were covering for that family the entire time. Making excuses. Justifying and rationalizing their behavior, and that they were being victimized by the system.

Complete and utter BS. Their children were removed for one year before they got them back, while her mother kept her children to protect them from their parents.

Once they had their children returned to them they fled New York and went to New Jersey where they were trying to evade law enforcement. The Mormon leaders apologized right and left for them and justified everything they did, despite evidence to the contrary.

The husband who doubled as a ward clerk stole tithes from congregants he received from them on Sunday. It was after his tenure as a ward clerk that there was an abolition of giving tithe monies to anyone but a bishop or bishopric member. It was people like him (lying, stealing POS,) that caused SLC to change the rules for that.

To the woman who recommended the mother, she was a "perfect mom, housekeeper, and wife." More delusional bullsh*t. It was so deep they were wearing hip waders.

These allow us to open our doors and speak with whoever is at the door, but barring a firearm, there is no way that anyone on the front or back porch can do us any harm.

So, if anyone from church shows up, I always ask, (through the security door) "Were we expecting you?" (Sometimes the mishies worm a visit and a meal or dessert out of soft-hearted DH, but I know about those ahead of time.) So when the visitors squirm and say, "Well, no. . ." I cut them off and say "Thank you for stopping by. Have a nice day, now." And I close the door.

The message is not subtle. They get it.

I’m sorry you went through that. It reminds me of how far we’ve come as a society though. TSM’s remark that “all women know the backhand” is no longer true, and it changed in a matter of decades. My wife and kids, back in her third world country, were beaten, abused and neglected by her ex. The first time she introduced me to her kids, they asked: “Mommy, is he going to beat you? And us?”. Maybe in 20 years, things will be better over there too.

My biggest regret about being a Mormon was pushing it on people who really didn’t want it (or need it) out of a brainwashed sense of duty. I hurt people and I can’t take it back. Fortunately I’m very introverted or it would have been worse. Thinking back on sacrament meetings, there were a lot of people who didn’t want to be there. In hymns, you could barely hear people singing over the organ. What a crock. If you don’t like church, don’t go. Do something you like. Or, and I don’t know why they don’t teach this, like what you not do what you like. Learning to like something that sucks is positive self development.

Like what you do, not do what you like.

MLK in a sound bite, good enough for a mantra. It just kinda popped into my head. I think I’ll use it.

Babyloncansuckit Wrote:
It reminds me
> of how far we’ve come as a society though.
> TSM’s remark that “all women know the
> backhand”
>


To what does this refer? I've never heard or read this before.s

It's described as a "joke," but if so, very poor sense of humor. It's akin to women making fun of Mr. Bobbitt.


http://elderchrislyons.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-cold-is-here.html?m=1

All poor Elder Lyons did was describe what he heard and saw.

His attempt to 'cover' for Tommy was kind of lame and not at all amenable to the words he says came of out Tommy's mouth.

I'm not entirely certain what "normal" or "norality" is. There isn't likely a person on the face of the Earth without his or her quirks. still, I consider myself somewhat within the normal continuum because I manage to drage myself to work each day and some days to actually enjoy it, I have a loving relationship with my wife, and I am able to put my children's needs ahead of my own because I love them more than I love my own life. So yes, in my opinion, it is possible to put mMormonism in one's past.

I don't envy you for the suffering you've endured, but if you think this through logically, you can probably come to terms with the idea that there are people whose suffering has been worse than what you've endured. There was a recent news story about a couple who had locked their children up and chained them to beds for the duration of their lives, which was decades in some cases. Their twnty-nine-year old offspring still looked like a child due to malnutrition. This probably doesn't make you feel better but it should help to give you perspective. Yes, you have suffered, but so have many other people. think of poor Jaycee Lee Duggard, who was kidnapped and held against her will for years, who gave birth twice as a child in a backyard tent with no epidural, no stadol or demerol, or medical intervention whatsoever, and in probably very unsanitary conditions. You've suffered, but you're not alone in having endured hardships.

Deal with this as your mental health professional or professionals tell you to do so, but sometimes dwelling on one's suffering only makes it harder to see the good in life.

As far as the physical pain goes, I'm genuinely sorry you're enduring it and wish your health professionals were providing more assistance while still exercising caution in terms of prevention of addiction. Addiction to opiates is the very last thing you need now.

I know the choice that this is leading to i just want to be stronger when it happens. When people find out that i finally resigned i want to be ready, actually more than ready. I want them all to have no power over me ever again and i want to live the next 50 years in peace because i have only known hell. I feel like i have been through more than everybody combined on this planet and i feel like i have been alive forever. All i know is i am a better man than god is from my life. He is a bastard if he exists that is all i have to say. And i didn't stand up to my parents in my mind, i hid under a rock like a coward and i kept hidden for 11 more years within myself and have been trying to crawl out from under that rock for the last few years still checking to see if i am safe from the mormons to be myself again. Even with all the help i am getting the church and my family still has power over me. It's f#cking nuts. If anybody has reached real normallity after leaving then i am impressed. We sat through soooo many church things and church meetings being abused over and over psychologically that i can hardly believe somebody became normal after leaving this organization.

Adam, can you set your sights for somewhere like California? Here in the bottom of the PNW, missionaries are scarce. Haven't seen em at all in fact for a couple of years. Don't know why. Just don't see em here anymore.

It would give you a wonderful goal.

You would ditch a lot of mormons.

You would ditch terrible cold.

You would get lots of vitamin D. It's sunny and warm here today.

I've heard that CA is a very easy place to get on Disability for while you are healing.

The CA coast is fairly warm. It seems to me that the Pacific Coast is a very healing place.

Something to think about anyway.

I have to get my neck surgery done first at the very least before i make any move. I wonder why there are so many missionaries here, it is weird as hell, half the town is already mormon. Been to california a few times, i really liked it. There is a picture of me standing on the beach of san diego somewhere. I think i was twenty at the time. I like the picture because it is just me and the sun in the background. The lone soldier, always.

Badassadam1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have to get my neck surgery done first at the
> very least before i make any move. I wonder why
> there are so many missionaries here, it is weird
> as hell, half the town is already mormon. Been to
> california a few times, i really liked it. There
> is a picture of me standing on the beach of san
> diego somewhere. I think i was twenty at the
> time. I like the picture because it is just me
> and the sun in the background. The lone soldier,
> always.

i don't know why there are so many missionaries in such a place, but it may have something to do with door-to-door tracting just not working out for them any longer. It's both unsafe for the missionaries and thoroughly unproductive for the church. Hence, the church seems to use the mishies to reactivate those who have moved on to greener pastures. The more heavily Mormon an area is, the more former members that are available for harassment. That's my take, anyway.

You might be right on that.