Mormons and exmormons worship missionaries. Anyone who is mistreated by them is demeaned and reminded that these young people mean well. They are only trying to please their parents and get a pretty girlfriend when they return home. They likely don't want to be doing what they're doing but they think they have no choice, so everyone must endure them, even those who are in far worse situations than the mishies.

Someone who is ill in bed vomiting from chemo must care more about the strangers pounding on their door than their own ill health and suffering. Someone who is on a ladder reaching for a putty knife must scramble to the door and say, "Oh, missionaries! Let me do what I can to support you because you are young and cute and mean well."

I feel as sorry for them as the next person, but I don't think we must worship them or put their needs above our own. I think it's fine to complain if they trespass, harass, lie and try to undermine parental rights.

The other day someone pointed this out and was deluged with foul mouthed insults which were deleted and a few milder ones which were not.

I think it's time to start blaming the mormon church, mormon parents, and peer pressure for the mishie plight and not exmos and nevermos who complain about being harassed and insulted in their homes.

It's terrible that these young people suffer, but it's also terrible that they cause others to suffer. The fact that they're victims doesn't mean mean they're heroic for what they do.

It's probably hard for them to recover from their suffering, but it isn't their victims who forced them to do what they did. I think it's mean and rude of them to take the side of a random mishie over someone who posts on RfM and is working hard to recover instead of suggesting the nevermos and exmos need therapy.

Perhaps its the missionaries who should seek therapy and work on their recovery and try to heal rather than lashing out at RfMers who are working on their own recovery and trying to heal from what missionaries have done to them.

"The other day someone pointed this out and was deluged with foul mouthed insults which were deleted and a few milder ones which were not."

vs

Very Active and Compassionate Activity on the Recovery Board - 2017 (title on home page).


I agree with your words Cheryl. It's why I rarely post anymore as I do not see this as a compassionate board anymore....

I agree that it's difficult to stay, read and post when many here think there's only one true answer to every question on the face of the earth. LOL

I've sometimes posted the most benign complaints about TBMS and then been roundly criticized and ridiculed.

These are basically nameless, faceless people who I am complaining about yet even in the wake of these minor, legitimate complaints people on the board will jump all over me.

To be honest, I've often wondered if a TBM friend or family member has somehow found out my identity and been stalking me on the board.

notmo

You do need a thick skin here. People are still hurting from the trauma of “OMGWTF They lied about everything!”.

Yeeeep that is definitely a trauma within itself. Because it is a huge lie that is dangerous in my opinion.

I like you cheryl. One day i will be as strong as you against missionaries and church leaders. I am getting there. I talk with more confidence but i still do not even want to engage anymore in conversation with any of them. I have the right to not engage.

I was thinking recently about my introversion. Due to my introversion, I have a very low tolerance for random people knocking on my door or approaching me in public. If a person needs help, fine. If someone in a supermarket checkout line wants to chat, fine. But if someone is trying to sell me something, especially religion, I simply want to be left in peace.

As for people knocking on my door, all I want to hear from are family, friends, and trusted neighbors (who usually are there to discuss a pressing community issue.) Apart from that, *I want to be left alone.* My home is my sanctuary. All day long, my job requires me to intensively interact with people, but in my own home I need my quiet and alone time. I don't want solicitors at the door or on the phone. I wouldn't buy or accept anything from anyone who approaches me in that manner. Such an approach shows a complete disregard for my mental health and physical well being.

Years ago, when I was recuperating from home from a serious injury, it often felt dangerous to quickly maneuver on crutches to the phone or the door. Often I was expecting a call from my physician's office, PT office, or nurse to discuss medical issues. Random solicitors represented a direct threat to my health. They were actively interfering with my rest and recuperation.

In the internet age, I don't need to discuss religion with strangers who approach me in my community. I can find whatever information I seek online, or from trusted neighbors or friends. I would never select a church community based on some stranger approaching me. To me that reeks of desperation and even deception.

I have also had random sales calls interfere with expected calls from doctors. They say, "Sorry I missed you. I'll try to discuss your test results on Wednesday if you're available."

I find that nerve wracking!

I understand about your job keeping you on stage all day and making alone time so vital. I remember my throat being tired from singing and talking to kiddies all day and my smile muscles hurting from the strain.

Yea, verily.

I once supported a young nevermo who posted that she was being given very mixed messages during a physical, romantic relationship with a traveling mishie.

She came on here, asking what was up with his odd behavior, all the secrecy, why her salvation didn't seem to be as much of an issue for him as ongoing sex with her, but he felt his time was "honor-bound" to god, to spend his days trying to convert others. She had a lot of questions, mostly revolving around why *his honor* didn't seem to apply in his behavior towards her.

She receieved response after response advising her to not only to [be supportive] of his confusion and possible future impending exit, how she was an (emotional and physical) lifeline to his sense of reality, that she should not judge his confusion or waffling as being a negative quality, that he had no choices due to indoctrination, blah, blah, blah.

I was stunned and outraged by how many viewed her situation and concerns for her future, barely addressed, as secondary to his. I didn't address the posts supporting his plight, but wrote my opinions of her future prospects with her jackmo mishie, that even if he did eventually exit, what a nevermo lover who "suckers" an RM out of his TBM family might expect from them, the shunning, pressures and virginal molly-mo competition she might face. I wrote (to her) a summary of the painful experiences posted here thousands of times, and played out in divorce after divorce.

Apparently, I was not allowed a differing opinion, one that examined a nevermo future as opposed to her mishie's future.

My opinions were shredded, with many ALL CAPS?!??! - type replies, asking if I had ever even been a Mormon, could never have been a mishie, had no compassion or empathy, did I even comprehend his struggle, and on and on it went.

I replied that I was supporting the one who came here seeking support, not the someone who had no questions for us. To my eye, from her descriptions, she was being used by someone feeding her bullshit excuses in exchange for for sexual relief. The board onslaught continued, and I think my response was likely overwhelmed by all of the advice supporting him.

Do I have compassion and empathy for mishies? Yep. I've described the experience as an emotional concentration camp, the culmination of the emotional and spiriual abuse of minors, coercion, cult abuse and manipulation resulting in "forced" (way too young) marriages and parenthood, a theft-imprisonment of a young person's life kept in cult conditions. I am kind and respectful to them, but won't allow them my time. I feel sorry for them. Were I to meet a mishie who asked, hinted, or obviously needed help, you can bet your bippy that I would butt in.

Still, this girl was treated as throw-away on this board, that her concerns and outcomes were not as important as his, or his immediate *needs*. She wasn't even old enough to be a mishie. I was ashamed of the behaviors and responses given her. I made up my my mind then to only scan prior responses to avoid possible duplications, and support / buttress those, instead of wasting bandwith, so repulsed was I by the mishie-centric, possibly male-centric, group-think that had been exibited. I'll continue to support those whom post here, whatever their sex or religious status, as opposed to those who do not post here.

And, to be clear, I don't claim that my view was "the right" one, but do claim an obvious bias was at play in the responses to that OP. I saw how harmful a lack of objectivity could be, not only to others, but to ourselves. It had been an emotional stretch to try to become objective, but ultimately, extremely freeing and very healthy.

That's how I see it. Greater concern for a mishie who isn't here and less or none for the poster needing support.

Maybe my romantic filters were on for that one, but I saw plenty of advice for her to move on. Fixing broken people doesn’t work. They might fix themselves, which nowadays mishies are apt to do, so I could go either way.

The church as a whole is in transition. Below the surface, there’s a deep frustration with the amount of denial it takes to make it work. Many heavy shelves. The hyperbolic backlash against TSM’s balanced obituary in the NYT tells me all is not well in Zion.

The church can’t go on as it is. Something needs to give. I could fix it, many of us here could. The poster boys, not likely.

But to address the actual thread (for a change), it might come down to the difference between men and women. They really do live in different universes. Like cats who think of dogs the way a cat thinks, and dogs who think of cats the way a dog thinks. There are bound to be misunderstandings.

Just try mentioning that you want to attend a Bible study group, or that coffee and alcohol are actually detrimental, or that you don't support Planned Parent hood, and see how quickly you are ridiculed or down voted.

Meh.

If it were just the missionaries repeatedly knocking on my door I would probably have a problem with that. However, I have all kinds of folks knocking. Some want to sell me cable TV, solar panels, little kids trying to sell me candy bars, or a neighbor wanting to use one of my tools. I'm sure these same folks knock on the door of my vomiting chemo neighbor and my other neighbor fixing his roof. It is just not the missionaries who are "causing me to suffer". **rolls eyes**

It's called life. Some of us can deal with it...some have difficulty.

Salespeople aren't allowed to go door to door where I or others I know live. Religious and political people are allowed but I've never had a stranger come to my neighborhood to talk about politics or voting.

Since you don't care, it isn't likely you'd be willing to help change laws or policies in your area as has been done in many places.

I don't pay much attention to missionaries. One of my cousins' sons just got off a mission and that part of the family was so proud. The RM is just a young man fresh off the boat with no life experiences. When I talked to him, he couldn't communicate much beyond LDS dogma. It was actually sad.

I see missionaries as kids having been put in a position not of their choosing. As such, I don't seek them out or troll them for the purpose of harassing or embarrassing them.

That being said, if they seek me out, particularly after I've repeatedly told them I will never convert, I feel no obligation to be polite to them whenever they stop by.

It's a delicate dance since my wife will often invite them over for dinner, and I am obligated to not be rude for my wife's sake.

However, if they stop by when my wife is out, I have no qualms about leaving them in the rain or cold while I talk to them through the door. It is their decision to stop by uninvited, not mine, and they are thus responsible for any consequences.

I would say that posters ought to have priority here. Ex-Mormons should be the focus of this forum, not missionaries.

Exmormons worship what? Who? How?

I don't see missionaries. Maybe I'm blind.

Yeah. I'm confused. I have never ever worshiped a missionary.

I live directly across the street from the local McChapel. It's a small college town that they probably don't see a lot of activity/opportunity in, especially when classes are out of session and all the students are gone. The mishies get done with their morning meetings and then wander around the neighborhood trying to be busy, so they show up fairly regularly, and I always see them every time a new pair is assigned.

It's definitely a case-by-case thing. Generally I can turn them down politely ONCE and it's usually no big deal. I feel for them. They're kids just 'doing their job' so-to-speak. No reason to be nasty for no real reasons.

There have been a few sets that have been really obnoxious and terrible though. One set would show up at my door once or twice a week claiming my girlfriend set up an appointment with them (or that I set up an appointment with them if she was the one that answered the door). The first time they showed up when we were both there we called them on the lie and I got pretty nasty with them and that took care of the problem.

I watched one (from a different set) accidentally knock over a desk-sized trash can at the entrance of our apartment building and just walk away as the trash blew around all over the hallway who I then chastised. I ended up picking up the trash as he blushed, tucked his head, and kept walking away.

Another set would come by every other day JUST to raid the candy dish that the little old lady across the hall from me sets outside for her neighbors. They would walk in, stuff their faces/fill their pockets with what was there then walk right back out the door and back across the street. (Not really a huge deal, but it was pretty juvenile and inconsiderate on their part that warranted the few nasty looks I threw their way when I caught them doing it)

Sometimes they definitely deserve some of the heat they get for their bad behavior.

young and dumb and full of cum. I feel for them because I was once them. My fear is that harsh treatment of them might have the opposite effect on them, i.e., strengthen their testimony for their persecution.