Very well-heeled MIL and FIL make it a habit of giving $5.00 Christmas gifts to their great grandkids. Actually, the gift amounts are on a sliding scale depending on how many generations down on the family tree one falls.

Granted, they have a huge family. However, given their modest level of giving, their total expense for their very large family is far less on that of my DD and DM (of modest means) on an average-sized family.

In an effort to aggrandize the gift, it is comprised of five $1.00 "gold" coins (Sacagaweas-the same coin our city transit gives back as change when you buy a train ticket in one of their machines) in a small red bag.

Now a gift is a gift and I don't care if they give anything at all (we find it amusing). And I can understand that for some, giving gifts to a huge TBM family can get expensive. However, money is not an object here and I am curious to know if anyone else has seen this sort of thing among TBMS. Wondering if it's a common practice.

notmonotloggedin

My mother gave gifts to the TBM families but almost never to my exmo kids because she said I could better afford it than the poor TBMs who had too many kids and worse jobs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2018 01:37PM by Cheryl.

Except that she unwittingly admitted that those TBMs made terrible life choices and were not particularly "blessed".

Tom in Paris

But how do you tithe 10% on 5 dollar coins??

Better give one coin back the the Lord and make it 20% just to be sure you get more blessings...

They'd make all the kids line up at the annual Christmas party and they would hand out a silver dollar. Seriously.

First time I ever attended one of these family events I was very curious seeing all the little ones lined up (it was quite a line) and ready to get their gift. When I saw what they were getting, I couldn't believe it. (These people were very wealthy). I looked at DH and said, "What the heck?"

Teach the little ones to value money!

My grandfather was an apostle, and very wealthy. (Strange coincidence that the Mormon leaders are always wealthy). He and Grandma were too busy and important to remember the birthdays of all 105 of us grandchildren. Still, whenever he visited us in California, he would shake our hand, and in his hand was a silver dollar. My brother was blown away by this, and he grew up revering Grandpa, as though he were God Almighty. My brother would run around Grandpa's mansion, chanting, "Money, money, money, what money can do!" Both my brothers had an abnormal love of money, which got them into trouble.

I think it is weird, the way your in-laws presented the $5.00, like it was a treasure.

exminion Wrote:
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> I think it is weird, the way your in-laws
> presented the $5.00, like it was a treasure.

Yes, that is exactly it. But I've realized it's just like them. Pretend something is what it is not. I've often been amazed/amused at how they will lie to our face and insist they are as pure as the driven snow.

I suppose handing a small child a bag of "gold" coins worth five bucks as though it is a treasure is no great feat.

not

Nevermo here but with LDS sis in law. Her very TBM in laws would give their grandchildren gifts that cost $1.99. Again they were a very well off family and it really staggered me when I saw the gifts being handed out.

a brown paper bag (to be re-used for lunches), containing an orange, a brand-new pencil, a toothbrush and sample-sized tube of toothpaste, and maybe a few other trifles that I don't remember any more.

She came from a middle-class TBM family and grew up during the Depression.

We taught the kids to be gracious and appreciative, to to this day they still laugh about Grandma's "stingy" gifts. It's not like she couldn't have afforded more.

But those items were treasures to her during the Depression Era, so that's what she passed along.

If they have a modest way of living it should not surprise you that they give out modest presents, no matter how rich you think they are.

I have no problem with 5 coins in a bag no matter how wealthy the grandparents are. At least every grand/great grand is treated equally, nobody gets a better gift than another.

Most parents I know these days are mad at grandparents who give too extravagantly and prefer to keep the holidays more simple with less emphasis on "stuff".

Being too extravagant is one thing. Giving your grandchild a $5 Christmas gift it's quite another

I totally agree that this emphasis on "stuff" and the demand for a certain level of "gift" really is telling about the heart of this society. Where in the hell is it written that ANY gift is merited? A gift is a remembrance---and to expect something at all shows an "entitlement" mentality. Much like the in-fighting that goes on amongst the heirs when a parent dies.

My grandchildren lack for nothing when it comes to material things. It is a real challenge to try and think of something appropriate that would be appreciated and affordable. I have come to conclude that it is the sentiment of them being recognized, appreciated and loved by getting a gift from me is the important thing. I usually ask my kids if they know something that their kids would like. Some times that helps but most of the time not.

I have tried giving $ but that seems so impersonal and the Gkids started to come to expect it in a greedy way. I bought clothes but was told not to bother by one of them. I have bought computer games but they already have tons of computer games. As they grow older the gifts get more costly. It's a quandary for me and I do not look forward to Xmas time because of it.

Finally got it covered for this year but am now into 'birthday' season. Less stressful in a way because it doesn't all happen in one day but all but 2 have birthdays in the next 6 weeks. And then I start buying and stashing things again for next Xmas.

It's enough to make me want to sometimes buy a Grinch suit and wearing it through out the year. I love each and everyone of kids and grand kids but it seems a bit overwhelming trying to show that love through gift buying. Money-money-money.....

Bah-humbug! LOL

My paternal grandmother was of modest means and had, I believe, 74 grandchildren. ny the time I came along, there were also great-grandchildren in the picture. she gave each of us tins of home-made candies and cookies. It probably stretched her budget to give us even that, so we were appropriately appreciative

my maternal grandparents were of less humble means and had fewer grandchildren. Our gifts from them were probably in the /425 to $50 dollar range. We appreciated them no more or less than the gifyts from our paternal gradmother.

I can't imagine as a grandparent being anything less than as genrous as I could afford to be without being overly extravagant. Just because a kid has grandparents in the romney-Huntsman league doesn't mean the kid should receive $100,000 Christmas gifts. It seems like it would be more work to go to Dollae Tree and find gifts for all the kids that didn't appear to be totally tacky than to buy /420 gifts from Target or Amazon. If a grandparent cannot affod a 420 gift, of course the grandparent would have to improvise. The kindest thing under such circumstances would be for the children' parents to purchase gifts for their kids that the grandparents could wrap and give.

My shift key is being uncooperative. Please forgive the absent capital letters and the "4"s where there should be dollar signs.


scmd not logged in Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My paternal grandmother was of modest means and



> had, I believe, 74 grandchildren. ny the time I
> came along, there were also great-grandchildren in
> the picture. she gave each of us tins of home-made
> candies and cookies. It probably stretched her
> budget to give us even that, so we were
> appropriately appreciative


>
> my maternal grandparents were of less humble means
> and had fewer grandchildren. Our gifts from them
> were probably in the /425 to $50 dollar range. We
> appreciated them no more or less than the gifyts
> from our paternal gradmother.


>
> I can't imagine as a grandparent being anything
> less than as genrous as I could afford to be
> without being overly extravagant. Just because a
> kid has grandparents in the romney-Huntsman league
> doesn't mean the kid should receive $100,000
> Christmas gifts. It seems like it would be more
> work to go to Dollae Tree and find gifts for all
> the kids that didn't appear to be totally tacky
> than to buy /420 gifts from Target or Amazon. If a
> grandparent cannot affod a 420 gift, of course the
> grandparent would have to improvise. The kindest
> thing under such circumstances would be for the
> children' parents to purchase gifts for their kids
> that the grandparents could wrap and give.

I'm glad you clarified that 420 should have been $20. 4/20 is pot smokeout day or something to that effect because 4:20 is the time that retention typically gets out. When you said the gifts were in the range of 420 I though "I hope this isn't referencing giving them herbal gifts purchased in Colorado or California"

I come from a family that ranges from moderately rich to filthy rich if you look at the whole extended family (that is, all the descendants of my grandparents, who were born forty years before my parents, who had me at forty as well). That's a lot of people. Yet every few years, we manage to get everyone together for a reunion. We usually just rent out a hotel as some of us own hotels to begin with. And then we exchange gifts. Since most have to buy something for someone they haven't seen in years (there's a sort of lottery that decides who buys what for whom), we have a strict rule: the gift should not have cost you more than ten euros. A few years ago it was five. And we like it. It's fun.

So my question to you is: how close are these wealthy people to the great-grandchildren they have to buy gifts for? How well do they know each other?

Visitors Welcome Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So my question to you is: how close are these
> wealthy people to the great-grandchildren they
> have to buy gifts for? How well do they know each
> other?

Well I could say you are missing the point but instead decided to say that your question speaks volumes.

I'd say that in most non-LDS families, your question would be an oxymoron or non-sequitur. However, in the case of most TBM families I know it's perfectly logical; (great-grandchildren....how well do they know each other?)

I remember once, when I was fairly young, my sister made me, for my birthday, a small pillow. It was somewhat ugly and too small to be useful for anything, so I tossed it to the floor and simply said "yuck".

My sister stood up and ran to her room, crying.

I picked that pillow up, and ended up keeping it for a long time. It became one of the most valuable gifts anyone has ever gotten me, because I learned that it's never about the gift itself, but about the person who thought to give it. I had acted unnecessarily boorish and hurt someone who was trying to be generous. Ever since that day, I've never been able to look at any gift, no matter how small or undesired, with anything but appreciation for the person who gave it.

Humberto Wrote:
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Humberto, this is what gifts and giving really should be about. Thanks for sharing this story.

DITTO!!

I don't have a problem with that in a large family. Not every family is into buying pricey gifts. IMO a young child would be thrilled with a bag of golden coins that he or she could spend. When the young kids that I teach bring money to school, they will take out that $5 dollar bill and wave it around at any opportunity. Young children are fascinated by money and love to handle it.

For kids, a gift is often about recognition anyway. They want to know that they are remembered. Even a small gift by a grandparent or great-grandparent conveys that message nicely. On a visit to my family, my grandmother gave me a $5 bill, and I remember it to this day. It was a spontaneous gesture of caring. She did not normally give her grandkids gifts. There were simply too many of us.

My own family has dialed way back on Christmas gifts. We make the holiday more about decorations, food, music, parties, and the company of our loved ones.

I talked to my manicurist just before the holiday. Her kids get one toy, one book, and perhaps some needed clothes for Christmas. That's it.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> I talked to my manicurist just before the holiday.
> Her kids get one toy, one book, and perhaps some
> needed clothes for Christmas. That's it.

My kids got way too much stuff for Christmas this year. my wife and I need to talk to the relatives about moderating things to some degree. my guess is that your manicurist's children were just as satisfied with their one toy, one book, and a few needed clothes as my kids were with the trruckloaad of toys they got from relatives. Perhaps we could coordinate some sort of effort for less fortunate children with the funds we usually spend on each other's kids. They don't each need ten presents plus what Santa brings.

My grandma lived on $450 per month. Her money was so tight that I paid her natural gas bill so she could bath, cook and be warm. She had over 100 combined children and grand children. Somehow she managed every year to buy, wrap and send a gift to all. The gifts were in the $1.00 range. Her Christmas gifts were always my favorite - you could almost feel the love she sent.

People are way too materialistic and therefore we have greedy grasping kids and grandkids. There are grandparents and parents who are mostly ignored and to my way of thinking if you do not have any time to see me I do not have time to buy you a gift. I mostly give people things that I know they like whether it be a box of candy,cookies or a book but it will not be expensive. I am delighted when I receive those things myself and especially a bouquet of flowers.

belfastgirl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People are way too materialistic and therefore we
> have greedy grasping kids and grandkids.

But that is not the case here. Your comment rather turns the situation on its head.

It is the giver who is being greedy, not the kids.

None of us can know or judge the heart of any other person....including the grandparents in this case.

If you knew a situation where a couple had a number of grandchildren (not spoiled rotten but good, loving, appreciative kids). And the grandparents were wealthy and secure financially but chose to give their grandkids $5.00 each for a Christmas gift, are you telling me you couldn't make a judgement about that situation. You are unable to make a judgment about this hypothetical couple?

I hate getting soppy 'you are loved/wonderful/special to me' nonsense gifts from relatives who only make my life difficult or rarely speak to me throughtout the year and NEVER EVER say the words the gift or card is claiming they 'feel' for me.

I hate insincere gifts, I'd much rather get something impersonal instead or nothing at all. At least it would be heartfelt and not an insulting lie.

If I had a lot of great grandchildren to buy for can see the merit in doing something simple that doesn't necessitate a great expenditure by the great grandparents.

If they have more, why be so stingy? Are they teaching a lesson in simplicity? Or seeing who is accepting without reservation of what they have to share?

My TBM grandmother died when I was very young. I have barely any memories of her. Yet what I do remember was her giving me a little girl's apron (she likely made it herself,) and a coloring book with a quarter taped to it.

That quarter enthralled me that she would do that. She was of simple means. What she did she did with great love. That message is still with me today. She died soon after that little gift. It was the last time I saw her alive.

Being together has value for family when it's time well spent. I'd focus more on the time the grandchildren have to spend with their grandparents and the message of love and togetherness than getting wrapped up in what they can afford to give.

Their focus is not on materialism. Perhaps that is the message they wish to relay to their offspring.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2018 10:06AM by Amyjo.

This reminded me of a sweet story of my late grandma- when I was a kid maybe 8 or 9 she gave us all a silver dollar. I think she did it another year too. I did not have any money growing up so I’m sure somewhere along the way I spent it or it was lost in one of many moves. Flash forward to being in my thirties with kids of my own and she randomly asked me if I still had the silver dollar. I froze like a deer in headlights not wanting to hurt her feelings and said something like I think so. I hadn’t remembered that silver dollar in years- I miss my grandmother:)

notmonotloggedin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Granted, they have a huge family. However, given
> their modest level of giving, their total expense
> for their very large family is far less on that of
> my DD and DM (of modest means) on an average-sized
> family....

> Now a gift is a gift and I don't care if they give
> anything at all (we find it amusing). And I can
> understand that for some, giving gifts to a huge
> TBM family can get expensive. However, money is
> not an object here and I am curious to know if
> anyone else has seen this sort of thing among
> TBMS. Wondering if it's a common practice.
>

You're comparing what your side of the family does for an average sized family to their very huge family? Is that really fair or accurate? Your perception is that they are well off. Maybe so. But they have worked and saved a lifetime to achieve that. And now have larger bills to pay - certainly medical care increases as people age. Older people plan for the rainy day so they don't end up without. They sound like planners to me who quite possibly haven't disclosed to you what their financial burdens or pressures consist of. It might surprise you if you were told, but they don't want to be a burden to their children.

If it were me, I'd say cut them some slack. They mean well, and went to some effort to get those gold coin dollars and red pouches to match for all those great grandchildren of theirs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2018 10:26AM by Amyjo.

Your response is totally based on fantasy. My facts are secure and do not fit what you have written. Were they true, I could see your point.

But why take the time to write that when I had already stated the facts?

We owe it to you to believe it as you stated it.

I'm talking about people whose personal financial situation we are quite familiar with gifting young, largely unspoiled children less money than we give our mailman and trash collectors! They are not only well-off but spend quite extravagantly on themselves. They are not in debt. Their wealth is secure.

Our proximity to the situation leaves us stunned that they would be so stingy. they do it under the premise of having such a large family.

"They are not only well-off but spend quite extravagantly on themselves. They are not in debt. Their wealth is secure."

You forgot one.....They are not required to give gifts.

It's their money, they can give or not give. They don't owe anyone presents. You can think they are stingy, but that's your problem, not theirs....meaning, they don't have a problem with it, but you do.

I guess I have a problem with people telling other people what they should be doing with their money, especially when it comes to gifts.....but that's my problem :)

Jonny the Smoke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's their money, they can give or not give. They
> don't owe anyone presents. You can think they are
> stingy, but that's your problem, not
> theirs....meaning, they don't have a problem with
> it, but you do.

Of course they don't have a problem with it and they don't think they are being stingy. But that doesn't change the fact that they ARE being stingy.
>
> I guess I have a problem with people telling other
> people what they should be doing with their money,
> especially when it comes to gifts.....but that's
> my problem :)

And I guess you don't have a problem here because no one is TELLING THEM anything.

notmo

Tangentially, in my experience, the wealthy, particularly the first generation wealthy are typically just very stingy by nature (it’s part of how they got to be wealthy).They often manage to pass the stingy attitude on to their children - but usually in a more selfish, less self-denying, self disciplined way. It may have more to do with their wealth-conscious nature than their tbmness, though it’s probably impossible to completely separate these.

There are two sides to every story.

Your perception is based on what you think they can afford to give. So therefore they should according to your wisdom.

Have they ever sat down with you and gone over their finances? Do you really know what their obligations and debts are?

In all fairness and for the sake of harmony in the family, I'd be more inclined to let it go.

It may be they've scrimped and saved to be able to do that, given the huge family they have to gift for.

Many families I know draw names each holiday to gift each other. The larger the family, the larger the burden it becomes otherwise not to do so.

A number of us are simply trying to point out that people do not always give expensive gifts for a variety of reasons. Some people give very modest gifts despite seemingly being able to spend more. There are other ways to look at the situation.

I can't think of any other reason why two well-off people, living comfortably with a few houses in various locations as well as other luxuries and no debt would give $5.00 gifts to their grandchildren.

maybe the wealthy grandparents have more money but choose not to spend it cause the kids already have too much stuff, games, computer games?

maybe the wealthy grandparents are giving the $5 coins then contributing to a college savings account? Now that's SMART.

are leading me to conclude that I've hit a nerve.

Perhaps cheap gifts among the culture are a common thing.

notmonotloggedin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> are leading me to conclude that I've hit a nerve.
>
> Perhaps cheap gifts among the culture are a common
> thing.

In your mind, who is in the morally lesser position, the miserly gifter or the vocal ingrate?

Humberto Wrote:

> In your mind, who is in the morally lesser
> position, the miserly gifter or the vocal ingrate?

The miserly giver.

To be an ingrate assumes there is something to be grateful for. I am an anonymous poster on an anonymous forum where everyone complains about something.

my grandmother used to give me £50-100 as a gift on as many opportunities as she could (even easter) I often tried not to take it - when she got senile and my father took over her bank account I got £10 in a card from her, via my father - card signed by him too. I say this just to show a comparison within the same family. My grandmother had more of a grasp of modern life and the value of things (she was young during the depression) yet my father is still wrapped up in a mormon mindset of scrimping and saving and 'everything for the church.'

My other siblings regularly get cash hand outs, help to pay bills, taken on holidays, out for meals, childminding, etc, etc: in comparison, I am made to feel obliged when they give me a one off cash payment of a relatively 'small' amount in comparison to what they spend on my siblings and call it my 'inheritance' (neither of them is dying - I checked) when it is just to assuage their guilt that me and mine get practically nothing from them, especially not their undivided time and attention. Emotional support appears to be an alien concept and phone calls are limited to rarely more than once a month. (they live two hundred meters from my children's school building).

Yeah, some parents and grandparents are crap and have no idea why they will grow lonely as they grow old. They are just thoughtless and their religion does not help their relationships with their progeny blossom the way it should. Sad.

As as child it is nice to be remembered and nice to know there are no favourites, but if all the attention you get is en masse with your cousins, you will not grow feeling loved by those parents/grandparents and this will lead to adult aged individuals feeling unworthy of being loved since their own family did not love them as a child.

I don't expect anyone (including grandmas) to give me a gift.
Then, if they do, no matter how small or insignificant or inexpensive it is, I'm surprised and appreciative.

Just sayin'.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
Depends on all kinds of circumstances.

I was always a bit sad about that. All of the grandparents we knew favored TBM kids or had little connection with their grandchildren.

I am a lavish and generous grandparent. I adore my grandkids and I hope they know it.

I taught my children to be respectful and appreciative of any little bit of a gift they got every few years, but I always felt a little sad that those things were so skimpy and not very appropriate.

Gifts are always optional. No one must give them and there are many reasons why they do it or don't.

I continued to give nice gifts to my parents and grandparents as long as they lived in spite of their obvious indifference. I also helped my children write cards, send art projects and gifts. They enjoyed it but were disappointed that they received no appreciation.

Gifts are optional and love it also optional, but we take whatever life provides, the good and the bad.