Those of you who have been following my story over the years may remember that my convert exMormon husband has two daughters from his first marriage. They are very TBM. He hasn't seen them since 2004, mostly owing to their very toxic mother's effective parental alienation campaign. She basically made it impossible for him to have a relationship with his two daughters and his ex stepson (whose bio dad was also cut out of his life).

Anyway, over the past year or so, my husband's younger daughter, who at age nine, during her one and only visitation with us, slapped my husband across the face for having beer in the fridge, started talking to my husband again. She's now 24 years old, got married in 2016, is a returned missionary, and lives in Idaho with her returned mishie husband. They recently had their first child. She hasn't yet finished college and he's in his last year.

They have had two Skype sessions in the past six weeks or so. My husband says his daughter initially acted like she was seeing a ghost. She's already remarked at how much my husband looks like his dad (her mom let her keep better contact with my husband's dad and stepmom). They haven't talked much about the circumstances surrounding their long estrangement, but she did say that she realized there's a very toxic pattern in her mother's family. She said her mother has been married three times. Her grandmother has been married seven times. She wants to break the cycle. She also admits that she was very judgmental before she went on her mission. While she was serving, she met a lot of people who aren't like her and it opened her eyes.

I normally wouldn't say Mormon missions are necessarily a good use of time, but in her case, I think it may turn out to be the best thing she could have ever done. Back in 2010, my husband discovered a blog his daughter wrote. It was about 99% rabid Mormonism. For years, I avoided reading it myself because I thought it might disrupt my peace. A couple of days ago, I decided to read some of it. I was a little put off by the constant BoM scriptures... but then I realized that the church must have given her a secure home and decent role models. You'd have to know her mother to know how I can say this... it gave her a place to be and people to connect with-- a place to be when her mom went off the deep end.

My husband's ex wife is a very toxic person. She treats other people like possessions and never hesitates to pit unwitting people against each other. She was extremely abusive to my husband and he's lived with the scars. I've been married to him for fifteen years now and there are things that I'm only now discovering... really bad things that are reminders that men are not the only ones capable of domestic violence. I can't know what it's been like since my husband divorced his ex wife, but knowing a little about Cluster B types and having talked to people who know the ex well, my guess is that things got bad regularly.

To be honest, I have been angry with my husband's daughters for years, mainly because they disowned him and basically threw him away. But I have to admit, my anger is dissipating as my husband becomes reacquainted with his daughter after thirteen years of separation. I am being cautious, though, because her older brother temporarily reconnected and it soon became clear he was only interested in money. So far, we have no indication that that's what she's after. I think she is genuinely curious about her father, especially since her mom was adopted. Also... I think the cognitive dissonance has gotten to be too much and she's starting to realize that she was fed a bunch of lies and half truths.

I continue to write about this phenomenon on my own blog because this situation is kind of fascinating to watch, even as it's caused significant pain all the way around. I'm sure more information will come out... some of it will probably infuriate me. My husband did say that he might now be ready to seek counseling from an uninvolved party (thank God). I've been hoping for years that he'd take that step. He has a lot to process and I'm much too involved to be objective.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2018 02:37AM by knotheadusc.

What remarkable good news, on all fronts, even your decision to move forward with caution.

Any way to find your blog? I'd love to read it.

Just Google The Overeducated Housewife. Mine is the one on blogspot (there are a few "Overeducated Housewife" blogs out there). I will warn you, though, that I tend to let it all hang out. I cuss a lot and sometimes get very personal... sometimes there's a lot of venting and some of it is admittedly petty. I also have a much milder travel blog-- less profane language and more about life in Europe.

:D

I noticed from one of your blogs that you have been to a special restaurant in Tuebingen. I lived in your curretn region for a while and I hail (no pun intended) from Germany. but I now live in the country wehre your dinner dereived from.

That was a very cool restaurant! We had a good time. I especially enjoyed the coffee.

My husband has been to your current country for work purposes and really enjoyed himself. I hope, if we get to stay in Germany much longer, I'll get to visit Africa myself!

I am here for nearly two years now and will come to Germany soon for a few weeks, but only to the East and North. I may even stay longer where I am now. Its nice here - plenty of sunshine and not too hot. I live in a part where there are no Mormons.

The coffee is the best in the world. Some of my German friends - some of which exmos - don't like it, however. I don't like Germna coffee...

If you like you can contact me: neferirkare at hotm.....

Would be nice. I enjoy your blog(s).

Thanks for reading, Ramses. I'm with you about German coffee. I don't like it much. I have Peet's sent to me from the States!

My husband has described the Ethiopian coffee culture. He loves coffee, so that's like heaven for him!

This is splendid news. I'm glad your husband, and you, are allowing the reconciliation to happen.

Less urgently, a housewife can never be too educated!

I routinely get comments about the name of my blog. Plenty of people have told me there's no such thing as too much education. Frankly, with a bachelor's degree and two master's degrees that we're still paying for, I beg to differ. Had I known I'd be a housewife, I probably would not have bothered going to grad school, at least not until my husband retired from the Army. As it stands now, I doubt I'll ever have the chance to use that education professionally.

But really, the name of the blog is just a facetious comment on how my life has turned out. I'm glad I went to school. It wasn't a total waste of time. But it was definitely expensive.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2018 05:20AM by knotheadusc.

I see both sides of the issue and understand the frustration. I just have a hard time ever saying "no" to further education for anyone.

And I suspect you have set a great example for other women and girls in your orbit.

I know. I just get tired of the controversy surrounding the name of my blog. It was not really intended to be taken as literally as some people take it. It's really just a place I go to write stuff. And now, it's too late to change the name.

When I first started writing my blog back in 2010, I was feeling really frustrated about things. We had just moved for the third or fourth time in just a few years-- the latest move was from Germany. We had come back early and I was sad about it because it was our favorite duty station. I also knew that because the new post was slated to close, we'd have to move again in less than two years. By the time my husband retired from the Army, we'd moved six times within a period of seven years.

I was cleaning up the badly neglected rental house we'd moved into and musing about how I was definitely not doing what I pictured myself doing at my age. At the time, I still had a huge balance on my student loans. While we were doing okay financially, it was hard to get ahead. It seemed like that time I spent in school didn't really pay off the way I thought it would-- although I don't really regret the experience. That's when I decided on the blog's title.

I actually kept the first blog somewhat secret for a long time, mainly because I didn't want my husband's ex wife or kids to find it. It was simply where I went to vent my spleen, write reviews, or muse about any number of topics. I started writing it at about the time my husband found his daughter's blog. You might say she even inspired me. As time went on, people started finding it and I began to embrace being read. It took years before I got noticed and longer than that before anyone mentioned the blog's title.

I now have a lot of readers in the military community. I don't know how many folks in this forum have experienced life in the military community, particularly as a spouse. I will tell you that it can be very frustrating to be formally "educated" when you're a military spouse (or really, wife). There are a lot of conflicting attitudes within the community. They like spouses to be educated, but not too educated. If you are educated and don't have any kids or a formal career, you get a lot of crap for that, too.

In the military community, spouses and children of active duty and retired members are referred to as "dependents". I personally hate that term because it infers that adults "depend" on their spouses. Moreover, it's led to the derogatory term "dependapotamus", which comes from the stereotype that spouses are fat, lazy, baby machines who sit on their asses, whine about Tricare benefits, and drain their husband's paychecks buying Coach bags at the PX.

However... if you do happen to have a formal education and/or a career, particularly if you're a woman and went to grad school, you'll encounter another attitude within the community. People think you're egotistical and/or need to be brought down a peg. It's often male servicemembers who do this, but some spouses also do it. I suspect the wives do it because some of them feel unfulfilled or inadequate. It's not easy maintaining a career when you have to move all the time. I finally gave up on it and now devote my time to writing and making music.

I get a lot of flak from people over the name of my blog, usually until they get to know me. Some people won't even bother getting to know me because they think I'm too big for my britches simply because I named my blog "The Overeducated Housewife". On the other hand, I have also found that military folks and ex Mormons are some of my most dedicated readers. :D Here in Stuttgart, I sometimes even get recognized like a very minor celebrity among the Americans. It's pretty funny!

Anyway... I am in no way saying that education is a bad thing or that people shouldn't go to school if they want to. What I am saying is that I went to graduate school for three years and ultimately earned three degrees. I expected to have a real career with business cards and an office somewhere. I thought I would have more of a return on the investment. Had I not married an Army guy six months after graduation, things might have been different. On the other hand, I could not have asked for a better husband. We do have a great life, for the most part... even with the drama from his ex wife and daughters.

I turned into a housewife, for better or worse. No matter what anyone says, one does not need seven years of post secondary education to do laundry and clean toilets. :D Maybe when we move back to the States, I'll find something else to do with my time. However, I did always want to be a writer and, I guess, the military has allowed me to do that. So I'm not really complaining... especially since thanks to some fiscal determination my student loans will be paid off this year.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2018 03:38AM by knotheadusc.

I'm glad things are moving forward for you and your husband, Knotheadusc. May the progress continue!

Tom in Paris

Knotheadusc, I'm glad you and your husband and his daughter are making some progress. I hope that trend continues. I like your insight into these complicated relationships. Not everyone gets this. :^)

Well, to be honest, it’s just the two of them talking now. I have been trying to stay out of it because I have been so pissed off. But my husband tells me about their discussions... I have admit my heart is softening, to put it in Mormon terms. I never wanted them to be estranged and I have seen how hard it’s been for my husband. He adored his daughters before he was cut out of their lives. He never stopped loving them. I don’t know them, so my perspective is totally different.

What a difficult situation.

It sounds like you're handling the situation very well, all things considered.

It would be very difficult to be objective given the circumstances of their estrangement.

Hope things work out because it will be a win-win for both sides if it does.

I think, at the very least, my husband is getting some much needed closure. You'd have to know him to understand what a gentle, kind, nurturing soul he is. He's the last person in the world who should be cut off from his kids.

My own father was married to my mom for well over fifty years, but he wasn't half as patient and decent as my husband is. I wish we could have had kids together, but he submitted to a vasectomy for his ex wife's benefit. She repaid him by remarrying for the third time and having two more kids. In retrospect, the vasectomy was probably a blessing, since she would have happily saddled him with more.

Oh well... we have a nice life with dogs, good food, and lots of travel. Tonight, we're headed to Rothenburg for the weekend. I'm finally going to get to see this town everyone talks about.

I've followed your difficult situation as you've described it here over the years and I think you've handled it exceptionally well, while remaining honest.

Well done knothead :-)

Have a great weekend in Rothenburg

Tom in Paris
(who wishes he didn't have to go to the UK this weekend...)

Aw... I love the UK.

Thanks Tom in Paris. Someday, I hope we'll get to visit your lovely city again.

If you do, I hope we'll be able to meet...

Hmm, if she is still TBM you will have a new disruptive force in your marriage.

It's a good bet the only reason she continues contact now is because she sees her father as a potential convert.

Mormons, unfortunately, always have an agenda.

I get what you're saying, but the OP did put in sufficient informtion regarding the TBM mother to provide for a foundation on which to build the hope that the daughter would be happy just to have a decent parent in the picture, TBM or not.

And the issue of the daughter having been on a mission does give a basis for hoping she has a wider-than-mormon view of the world and the people in it.

Don't worry. We have discussed the whole re-converting to Mormonism angle at great length and there is no way my husband will be going back to being LDS. He enjoys scotch and coffee too much.

If anything, I worry that she will turn out to be as toxic as her mother is, which is a much bigger threat than Mormonism could ever be. But if she does turn out to be that way, it's a good bet she'll just disown my husband again. He's survived it for years, so he knows he can survive it again.