I have struggled with forgiveness, wanting to forgive so as not to be 'stuck' in the negatives, but have really had a rough time. In the end I decided to do my best and leave the rest to my definition of a God. I can only do what I can do.
But when I look at times at who and what I am forgiving, I see your point.
Of the three primary tormentors in my life, two are dead. Either they have stepped into the Great Void, or they have gone on to their eternal reward. And I no longer care, in either case.
The other one - my ex - is still living. We do not communicate at all. The way I see it, he needs to be express regret for the soul-rending things he did to me, before I even consider forgiving him. And I have NEVER known him to express regret - let alone apologize - for ANYTHING. In his own eyes, he is never wrong.
I no longer worry about forgiving him. When I was a Mormon, I was told that I HAD to forgive him. I prayed - on my arthritic (as yet unreplaced) knees, every night - to be able to forgive him. It never kicked in. (I eventually assumed that God didn't care, either.)
Antagonism has moved on into indifference. He has no place in my life. I don't give a rat's arse what becomes of him. He has pretty much alienated our son, as well. Their relationship could be described as "mutually tolerant." He does send thoughtful gifts to our granddaughters for their birthdays and Christmas, and I think he genuinely cares for them insofar as he is capable of caring for anyone but himself.
It's nice not to carry around the burden of visceral-level hatred any more. Indifference is much lighter. No effort required.
"Forgiveness should only be dispensed when its recipient dies, thus ending the opportunity for revenge or comeuppance. Until then, savor the possibility of balancing the scales." - - Judic West, Baron of Bonerwoods, Umbria.
elderolddog Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > "Forgiveness should only be dispensed when its > recipient dies, thus ending the opportunity for > revenge or comeuppance. Until then, savor the > possibility of balancing the scales." > - - Judic West, Baron of Bonerwoods, Umbria.
Yes, that sounds like something Judic would say. I concurr completely.
Huh. I never considered a personal definition of forgiveness, but it makes sense to reject the be-all, end-all slate-wiping self-flagellation of religion. That, I have internally rejected since I can remember, as nonsense.
Great. Now I have to pull out my thinking cap, all dusty and moth-ball smelly.
To answer your question Anon for this - the way I read it is that the line of credit (for forgiveness) is not extended to the one who is emotionally bankrupt (the person who has done something for which they need to be forgiven or has not done something they should have, for which forgiveness may also be offered except they don't deserve it). The one extending the line of credit (or not) is the one to whom some wrong has been done.
I used to feel really bad about myself for in some cases being slow to forgive, or unable to do so. I have eased up on that over time. I'm only human and yeah, some things hurt for a long time and it's understandable why. One less thing to feel bad about if you can "forgive" yourself for your supposed limitations (being slow, or unable, to forgive). And sometimes I do think that acts are so egregious it's understandable why it's hard, or impossible, to forgive them. I never can get, for instance, how a person can forgive someone who murdered a loved one of theirs (especially if an expression of forgiveness is forthcoming immediately after the crime). Forgiveness can take a long time to attain and that's on the trespasser not the forgive-ee, in my view.
To Don: It's great how you can create a thought-provoking essay in a sentence or two. Unique talent! (That I obviously don't share!)
I agree with you, Nightingale. Don's statement reminds me of the old saying, "Laugh and the whole world laughs with you; cry and you cry alone." Those who are the poorest don't get credit, but the rich, worthy or not, get as much as they please. When you sit in a testimony meeting and listen to people expressing gratitude for help from the ward, it is usually those who are the best situated who receive the most support for trifling things, while the emotionally, spiritually, financially bankrupt and broken, sit quietly unnoticed.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2018 12:59PM by marilee.
I love that. My sister has caused more pain in my life than almost anyone. We are no longer talking yet again and I don't plan on ever talking to her again. I've forgiven her I don't know how many times. She tortured me emotionally from a young age.
I don't think she has ever forgiven me for being born. Towards the end, my dad was even apologizing to me for them not paying enough attention to me as a little kid because she demanded their attention.
My mother always told us growing up that we HAD TO GET ALONG. I lived with a lot of guilt over how I felt about my sister. Was so glad when she left home.
Shockingly, I have forgiven my ex for the hell he put me through. He has apologized many times and he does things now to prove to the kids and I that he is sorry for what he did (and that wouldn't be being gay). Being gay doesn't make you a bastard and he definitely was one for a long time.
It kind of shows you how bad my sister has treated me. She is only 17 months older than I am. I've only seen her twice in the 9 years since our parents died.
I have an older sister who gave me a lot of grief over the years with her selfishness and her inconstant moods. She was the kind of person who has to be endured. One day she yelled at me over the phone about her spirituality, and she accused me of blaming the church for everything. That was the last straw, and we haven'r spoken since. There's nothing to forgive.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2018 06:00PM by donbagley.
I agree with your points. Forgiveness is ours to choose. I think some folks don't deserve it. Ironically, they're the ones who demand it most. Religious jerks, usually.
donbagley Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I agree with your points. Forgiveness is ours to > choose. I think some folks don't deserve it. > Ironically, they're the ones who demand it most. > Religious jerks, usually.
That is so true Don.... its like they think they can do no wrong.
IMO, forgiveness is dependent on the offender's acknowledgement of having done wrong, and then 'showing forth' repentance for having done so--at least a sincere apology.
If the bad get the same reward (forgiveness) as the good, then justice is thwarted.
That whole concept of the atonement seems pretty dangerous to me. It encourages people to do harm to others because, 'my sins are going to be bankrupted anyway'. It's like if the bank were to extend to someone, an unlimited line of credit with no fixed repayment date, and you know that you're going to die eventually without repaying the debt. How is that a good thing for any society?
Those that don't understand a person's lack of forgiveness are typically the biggest perpetrators themselves. It's easy for them to forgive others because they typically know that they themselves have a negative balance in the karmic justice ledgers and they still have plans to keep harming others without accepting responsibility for their actions. So their mis-deeds are best forged in an environment where they forgive others because the deal then is that others must forgive them for the wrong-doing that they have yet to do.