http://www.back2stonewall.com/2017/12/tortures-homosexuals-hands-mormon-church-video.html
For 20yrs gays reported to "standards" were given a choice, either subject yourself to "aversion therapy" (torture) at the hands of Evergreen, which used various forms of torture, or get expelled.
Not sure what choices gays at BYU are given these days, but hopefully torture isnt one of them.

The old "we're saving you from hell (outer darkness, whatever) by doing these horrible things to you."

When IS executes gays by throwing them off buildings, they believe they are saving the poor buggers' souls from the fiery furnace of hell, and so they are proud of doing this good work. They also share their joy with the victims, I mean beneficiaries of their charity and give them a big bear hug before they crush them.

Good people cannot justify the Mormon treatment of gay people and wouldn't even try to justify such an atrocity. Only black hearted, amoral, corrupt people can attempt to justify the torture, like for instance-- Dallin Oaks who was president of the Y for much of the electroshock therapy.

The Mormon leaders cannot claim ignorance either since they claim to be inspired and receive revelation and act through the promptings of the spirit.

I think Stanley Milgram answered that one. It’s nice that what they did is coming to light. What do you know, they did get one of the last days prophecies right.

I know I could take some heat for this. But don't point fingers at me. I'm just trying to present the honest TBM answers so you and everyone can decide whether or not Mormonism is a good thing or not. If nobody were telling the honest TBM answers then you'd have dishonest people getting away with all sorts of lies/deceit & sugarcoating & whitewashing and we just can't have that.


Throughout most of LDS history its been presumed that homosexuality is pretty much a sin so grievous that torture or the death penalty would be nothing in comparison to someone engaging in homosexuality. Is this really Christlike? Well the Brethren have seemed to think so. And the leg they stand on is people thinking they are a true Church.

So what is a true Church? Well for starts its super honest and transparent. So when you are browsing all the up-to-date financial, statistical, doctrinal, and historical information on the Church's website and you say to yourself "wow what a super honest and transparent Church" then maybe its true. Of course if it wasn't so transparent then you'd be justified to say "what a fraud it is" and then it would be open season scrutiny on the Brethren and all they do, including the historical attitude that gays/lesbians ought to be tortured or killed for their own good and the good of humankind.

I would think about all this really deeply before I do my Church duties. But you know how the Correlation program works, don't you? No need to do any thinking as the Brethren, those Christlike servants who just love the gay/lesbian people so much, do all the thinking for us. My job is to just obey and do my duties such as scrubbing the chapel toilets and paying big bucks in tithing. When I do anything for the Church then I'm obviously in-sync with them on how they have showed love to gay/lesbian people and everyone now and throughout history, including all those loving reparative therapies.

How we justify anything is because the Correlation program has taught us well to be unquestioningly obedient. For starts the amazing "feeling good -> feeling the Spirit -> Church is true" is the most amazingly important teachings to help us be good little lambs who never question the orders of our beloved overlords. Thus when they speak we just obey, period.

Thus thanks to the heavy indoctrination I got through the Correlation program I'm of the mindset to follow the overlords in accepting that homosexuals would be better off tortured or killed than being gay.

If you don't agree with this then maybe you aren't very heavily indoctrinated through the Correlation program to be obedient? However I can put you in touch with missionaries to help you get started on being assimilated into becoming well-indoctrinated.

"I'm of the mindset to follow the overlords in accepting that homosexuals would be better off tortured or killed than being gay."

Please tell me this is satire.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2018 02:13PM by Atari.

Everything HonestTBM posts is satire.
He/She is not an "HonestTBM." :)

Ok, just wanted to make sure.

When I came out, my mother told me that she knowing being gay was wrong because it made her feel bad. After a few years, she finally realized that bad feeling was the homophobia she'd been taught her entire life. My life as a gay man and all the gays she met through me undid all the prejudices that church had built into her.

Basing truth on feelings is really just reinforcing your internalized beliefs. If you think something is good, it will give you warm fuzzies. The warm fuzzies are a reaction to your internal beliefs, not a verification of them.

If you are a racist and seeing blacks makes you feel bad, it's not the spirit testifying to you, it's your own prejudices viscerally reacting.

Using your gut as a compass to navigate the world means thinking your own prejudices are the standard for the world.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2018 02:13PM by Atari.

How can "good People" justify torturing homosexuals"?


Good people don't torture homosexuals.

Good people have no desire to hurt anyone .

The irony is that alot of the best people I know are

homosexuals.

Don't get it twisted about who's good and who isn't.

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion"

Stephen Weinberg. Nobel Prize winning physicist.

Exactly, Saucie.

Acording to your logic, people who justify torturing homosexuals are NOT "good people."

We aren't required to think that such people are "good people", even though they tell us that they are.

We aren't required to think that people who emulate and worship a man who was a polygamist, a pedophile, a liar, and a criminal would be "good people."

I get confused and twisted-up inside, if I try to separate people from their actions. Where their treasure is, their heart is. A mormon's heart and loyalty is to their cult--ahead of unconditional love, ahead of human empathy, ahead of understanding others, ahead of scientific fact, ahead of the laws of the land, ahead of the 10 commandments.

I freely admit that I'm prejudiced against Mormon cult members. I used to be one, and I know how they think. I was not as good of a person when I was Mormon. I do NOT think they are "good people" who "mean well."

I don't think anyone "meant well" in "saving" homosexuals. Deep down, I believe the perpetrators were driven by mass hatred and fear, and maybe power and control. Yes, I blame Dallin Oaks, as well.

The fact that this was allowed to happen within the church is proof enough that the church leaders are evil.

I think the best justification they had was the fact they got the idea from other christian-leaning institutions who thought they could research how to stop gays from being gay.
Very hypocritical, but it's their best case for it.
But to me it's a bit like experimenting on people like they are lab animals or something

mootman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the best justification they had was the
> fact they got the idea from other
> christian-leaning institutions who thought they
> could research how to stop gays from being gay.

But those christian-leaning institutions were abolished in 1945, when their "overlords" lost the war. Yet TSCC trudged on.

except in their own mind.

That's why you have "good people" in quotes. They are/were not good people. Good people don't treat other human beings like that.

OK, yes, that is ONLY my humble opinion. I'm of the mind that mormonism is inherently hateful and judgmental and that people are inherently good. So I know people revered as "good people" simply because they were good mormons (e.g., give lots of money, hold high positions, but can be cruel, bigoted, misogynistic and judgmental). And I know many many more truly good people who may be, but usually are not, mormon. And all of those are people would be horrified by these past BYU policies or even torture during wartime.

Is there any clear universally accepted definition of a good person. Obviously not or people wouldn't have their magic panties in a wad over Tommy's NYT obit. Sure he was a great mormon, he was the goddamn so-called prophet. But sorry folks, in my OPINION, he was not a good person. He spewed judgmentalism, broke up families and drove people to their deaths. And his 14 minions are as culpable. NOT good people.

Again, I DO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS SOLELY MY OPINION. And that's all I'm doing, expressing my OPINION, not professing any superiority of my own. State your own opinion or counter it. No skin off my back but don't cry about my right to have mine.

I can't allow you to claim this is solely your opinion. It's mine too. Well said. I would certainly claim those words.

Thanks, D&D We're probably the only two on this board with that opinion. Haha.

NormaRae Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks, D&D We're probably the only two on this
> board with that opinion. Haha.
There are at least 3 of us who share the same opinion, although I think you went easy on them. Dont hold back your emotions.