I need to vent right now. First off, my husband and I have been out of the church for ten years. His family know that we don't attend, but are unaware that we have resigned. They are 100% caught up in it all and even if Jesus Himself came and told them it was a load of shit, they would still believe the church was true.
They have been cool, on the cold side that is, for a while now. They have no interest in our lives at all. We live just shy of 1,000 miles from them, so don't see them much at all. My husband was always a faithful son and called them every Sunday for a chat. He knew they were watching T.V. and trying to pretend to be engaged with him. He quietly phased the calls out, and guess
what? They rarely ever call. So.....

This afternoon my husband got a group text message from his dad. Obviously father in law forgot my husband was on the group. He was telling the family about an experience at church this afternoon, just shy of 100 miles from where we live. Seems the in laws were doing a temple tour trip and had driven close to 900 miles from their home. No word to us that they were going to be close enough for us to drive up the 100 mile and meet up.
The clincher is, that we have a temple in our town and they had planned on visiting it too, but it was closed. So, guess what? They turned around and drove back towards their home.My husband texted them and said we were excited to expect a visit. No response. Tried again later, no response. Eventually he texted his sister and told her he was concerned that they were in our state and we were concerned for their safety. She said she would text them. Next thing mother in law calls my husband and tells him they are on their way back home. He said we could have driven the 100 miles to see them, even for a few minutes. She laughed at him and said "oh, we hadn't even thought of that" The worst thing is, they didn't tell us they were coming and had the temple here been open for business, they would have come and gone without us knowing.
Our youngest is 17. They haven't see her in almost 7 years. My husband is self employed and pretty tied to where we live because of it. They are retired. They visit all their other kids on a regular basis and have even been to Hawaii twice in the last 2 years.

So, I guess we have been well and truly shunned. What on earth is wrong with people? How can any religion do this to parents and behave so badly against their own son. I might also add, what a fantastically caring and good human being he is. A devoted husband and father, so full of goodness and love. My heart breaks for him.
He is handling it better than I am. He said that he lowered his expectations of them a long time ago when he could see they had no interest in us.
What's your take on this crappy behavior? Should I say something to them or just close the f'ing door on the b'stards?

The sad part of it is the neglect. The parents attach themselves to their wards. It's what they're told to do.

You are exactly right. :)

That is our plan from today onward. :)

You are sweet to be concerned for your husband. You are probably concerned for your children, too. I hope your post is answered by wiser people than I. My ex-husband moved us to Utah, and abandoned us here. He called me right before Christmas, to tell me that he would not be moving to Utah after all, and that he "didn't want a family anymore." We didn't know about his affairs, until years later. My fanatic TBM in-laws blamed me for the divorce. I got one phone call from my ex-husband's mother. She said, "I hear that you are getting divorced. I hope you don't expect any help from us." I told her that the children needed the love and family contact with her and their grandpa, but they cut off my children--their own blood-grandchildren! I never asked them for a dime--just for contact with the children. We were not sealed in the temple, like their other grandchildren were. The in-laws lived in California, and we lived in Utah. They secretly bought a condo three miles from our house, and spent a lot of time there, visiting their daughter and her husband and 5 children. They never even called my children. My kids insisted on sending them Christmas cards and birthday cards, with never a reply, which was pathetic.

So--I understand that watching your loved ones suffer is worse than your own suffering.

People gave me all kinds of advice, and I read books on the subject of divorce. One of the pieces of advice was to not say anything bad about the children's father, because the children might identify with the father, and think that they are bad, too. They might feel "genetically inferior." On the other hand--my gut instinct was to let my children know that their father's abandonment had NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM. I think this message would apply to your children and husband, as well.

The insanity belongs to your in-laws. You and your husband seem like worthwhile people, and so are your children. Lord! I can't imagine missing out on the lives of my own grandchildren!

Let your husband and children know that you love them. Let them talk about their feelings, if they need to, but don't include the in-laws in your life. You can be open and honest, without resorting to name-calling (even though they really are b'stards) or analyzing them or seeking revenge. You want your children to respect you.

You don't want your children to think that your in-laws' behavior is acceptable. Your children DESERVE BETTER. You can say that the in-laws' behavior is weird, incomprehensible, and cruel, because it is. Criticize their behavior, but not them. Reassure your children that you would never behave like that, their other grandparents would never, and normal people on the planet would never treat their family like that.

My wise, kind grandmother would say the following about my ex-in-laws:

"Their motto is 'out of sight, out of mind'"
"Church First!"
"They are missing out on life."
"They are half-cracked."

She would say it with a smile, and change the subject.

You don't want your family's focus to be on those in-laws. Your life is probably very good right now, except for the shadow those horrible people cast upon you. You are probably better off keeping your distance.

You-all can't help them or change them. As you so aptly put it:

"even if Jesus Himself came and told them it was a load of shit, they would still believe the church was true." They probably think of themselves of paragons of temple virtue.

Here's the outcome for us, 20 years later. My father-in-law killed himself. My children had a clear conscience, because they did reach out and send those cards. I reached out, too. I was glad I didn't curse them or show hatred towards them. A suicide is far worse than anything you could wish onto your worse enemy.

But almost as bad, is that your in-laws are living a false life as prisoners in a cult, and missing all the love and joy and interest and amazement that their grandchildren could have offered them! It's their loss.

Thanks for sharing. This is a beautiful way to handle an awful situation.

Thank you for sharing your sad story with me. Thank you for your advice, much appreciated. I wish you well on your journey.

Thank you all for caring so much to share your story and or respond to mine. I have been gutted all day long and have hardly slept, but, I have taken your kind words and advice to heart. We shall pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and just hold our heads up high. We have such a happy life, and yes, we are so blessed to have 1,000 miles between us and our judges. I am sickened to the core with the Mormon cult. The only good that ever came from it was meeting my one true love. Thank you all for lifting me up again with your kindness.

Eventually the simple statement may suffice, "Remember, they're mormons..."

I'm terribly sorry. I wouldn't bother contacting them, as it likely wouldn't do any good. Put your energy into developing a close relationship with your own parents.

This is a very good example of Mormon shunning. You and your family are not playing the game, so you have been cast out. It's not you, it's them.

There’s nothing mysterious about evil—-it’s that kind of thing.

Saying something to them is a waste of energy - you said so yourself, in saying that the would ignore even Jesus.

There's another way to look at this. There have been many posts of horrible TBM in-laws who won't keep their grasping, culty hands off of their grandchildren. They say bad things about the parents, undermine/ignore parental authority, sneak/send indoctrination materials to the kids, love bomb them, compare them in a bad light to other TBM grandchildren, give them obviously "lesser" time, attention and gifts. You name the cult behavior, it's been done to grandchildren.

It's impossible to know if your wonderful husband laid down any boundaries with them for his family, but if so, what a gift he is. He knows them so much better than you do, and if he's not "as upset" as you, I would take my ques from him.

I also would not give them the satisfaction of letting them know it bothered me, nor model being bothered about it in front of kids. Your husband sounds like a gem, so I'd talk to him if/when hurt, but remember that his loyalty likely did not grow from thin air; he may be more hurt than he lets on, and modeling a "proper" emotional response for your sake. Lowering his expectations is a very healthy thing to do, and you might ask how he managed to do that.

I'd wash my hands of them, and thank my lucky stars, but that's just me.

I wish you peace.

When you’re dealing with people so entrenched in the delusion, it really is a no win. I would consider myself and kids fortunate that there was so much distance and lack of contact. Feeling hurt that you’re being ignored is normal but think about all you’re being spared as well.

My in laws are creepy and they’re not even aware I’m on my way out of the church yet. He’s a patriarch / former Stake President / current temple worker. All they talk about is the church. When I talk about anything I’m interested in that doesn’t involve the church, they look at me like there is something wrong with me. Like “why would you do that when you could be in the temple.”

We had a family reunion a while back. I went home feeling like I would have rather been castrated.

My in-laws were evangelicals. They were far more involved and interested in their church events and obligations than their grandchildren - and it got worse as they aged/more of their own children presented grandchildren. The youngest grand kids never got more than a glance in passing. That still hurts me deeply.

We, too, would say that church activities were the grandparents' choice - and leave it at that.

I, too, wish you peace - and the realization that this probably cannot be fixed to your liking (which is not an unreasonable expectation in any way!).

For about 20 years two of my nephews traveled through my area every three or four months. They never once visited or phoned to say hello. Then I got word one of them wanted to bring his wife and five children to the area for a week of vacation and they expected us to house them, provide food and transportation to all of the local sites. They gave us only three days warning of their plans.

I phoned my mother and explained why I couldn't invite them to stay, too many pressing demands that couldn't be easily changed. She said she understood.

I phoned the nephew and explained that I was already fully scheduled and couldn't house guests during this time. I said I thought they'd understand because we had not been in touch for decades and because it's impossible to change appointments and make new arrangements with little or no notice.

They were furious. They phoned my mother and ranted until she was in tears over their predicament. They said I was rude and uncaring and they were family. What mother at first said was fine was now horrible to her. She said I was selfish and inconsiderate. She said they couldn't afford motels and she urged me to phone them and apologize. I told her I'd already told them I was very sorry about the situation and said that if I'd known a few weeks earlier I might have been able to work out a visit, perhaps not a full week, but a couple of days. I told them I hoped they would have a nice vacation and said I was glad to hear from them after so many years.

Having ancestors in common doean't mean I must cater to unreasonable demands. It was they who were rude, not me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2018 11:36AM by Cheryl.

you lucked out. Their visit would have been a tragedy.

You always have a beautiful future. We all have a beautiful future until we self sabotage because it is a clean slate until you write on it.

Think of your future as a whole. Decide how much of that whole you will allocate for your in-laws to ruin.



(Hint: The correct answer is zero.) They have already shown you how much of you they want in their future, the same---zero. What the mother said on the phone was a "kiss-off"--no two ways about it.

I would suspect your husband is as hurt as you are appalled. I feel for him--hard wound to heal. Have a funeral for the family. Buy a small tree and bury it whole. No more unwelcome duty calls. No more nose pressed up against the window hoping to be let in. No more giving them the benefit of the doubt. Hold out for the real thing--all or nothing.

Actions speak louder than words.

They care more about the church than they do your family and

their feelings.

If a person doesn't care about your feelings, they don't care

about you.

Sorry.

grandchildren even when we were active. Your in-laws actions say a lot about them, not you. Were they more involved in your lives before you left the church or quit going?

My ex's parents were 2 of the most selfish people I've ever known. They didn't even know if we had 2 or 3 children or if they were male or female. We have the only set of twins in the family as far back as genealogy has been done. When we went to visit them with our newborn twins, they wanted to hold them. They walked in the bedroom and laid them both down on the bed. That was how interested they were. My kids got ONE birthday card with $2 in it in all the years his parents were still alive. My kids don't even know those grandparents.

When they died, my ex took it really hard, but not for long. He said that he mourned what could have been, but never was. There was a lifetime of neglect by his parents who were supposedly good mormons. His mother had the audacity to tell me that she'd send me pictures of Jesus to hang in all the rooms of our house--after her son left me for a man. Obviously we were failing. She never went to church. She spent all her time in her bedroom. Her husband was forever looking for his future wives even when he was a bishop.

Just because your in-laws visit the temple doesn't make them good people. They might think so.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2018 12:59PM by cl2.

Count your blessings.

So sorry to hear about the horrendous way that you and your husband are treated by his parents. I can't imagine not wanting to see my kids or grandkids at every opportunity.

My husband has always been used and abused by his LDS mother. She is the only active member on both of our sides of the family and I can thank her that her actions are one of the reasons that I began thinking that the church might be a farce.

She came into town for two nights in mid October (she lives 200 miles away) and left a Christmas gift on our doorstep on her way back home. (We hadn't seen her in 8 months). I was hurt and felt especially bad for my husband. He says he just lets it slide off his back because he's used to her behaving that way.

I'm so sorry that you have to go through this. I can relate!

EDIT: As a mother, I would never come into town and not plan to visit my son or at least tell him I was coming so that we could try to plan to get together. We found out she had been in town when we saw the gift on the porch.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2018 06:48PM by JudyQ.

Invite them to your daughters 18th birthday make a formal ivitaion and mail it to them.

No they don't deserve it, do it for your kind husband. You are a great wife in the way you are writing about this situation.

I think you are better off without contact with your toxic in-laws! I would feel justified in cutting them out of my life by ignoring them. They don't deserve you both.

For those of you that read all of the postings in this thread, and could relate to the emotions expressed therein, you might find some sort of healing in "The Road Less Traveled" by Scott Peck. At the very least, you will see a roadmap so as to not repeat the mistakes of the past, and you will find a way to heal and let go. Go ahead and just read 50 pages for starters! It will give you insight and perspective that you never had before.

http://www.whale.to/c/Peck,M.Scott,The%20road%20less%20traveled-1.pdf

It takes a long time to understand that family isn't what it is made out to be. Just because someone shares some DNA doesn't mean you have anything in common, or they care about you.

This isn't just a Mormon thing, but the problem with Mormons is they promote the whole family thing, but the church is their family.

My folks are in the Northwest. Years ago I was stationed in Illinois with little kids. Invited them to come visit, but was told they didn't have the time or money. Couple months later they sold their house and did a mission in West Virginia. Didn't stop to visit on the way.

That's when I first questioned the whole idea of family.

Over the years my parents have made week-long visits to my TBM siblings in other states. They stop by our place for a whopping 15 minutes before having to leave (have a meeting to get to, or whatever).

My brother is a bishop a couple hours away and recently texted that I should come visit. He said he would come see me but he's too busy. 30 hours a week for church, zero hours a year for visiting his brother.

I've decided I'm too busy also. I've spent years feeling obligated to stay in touch, but no longer. I once thought they might miss me, but eventually you realize I probably never cross their mind. They're too busy kissing ass at church, boosting their status.

Fortunately for my kids, we've had some older neighbors that were really nice and became surrogate grandparents. Works better to have someone actually interested and available.

Likewise, I have a younger guy at work with 2 young daughters who likes to bring them over to our little farm. Fun to have kids around. His parents are unavailable and crazy, so I like being grandpa to his kids. Yesterday we were feeding carrots to cows, gathering eggs, climbing haystacks, etc, and my wife brought out some games for them to play. They didn't want to leave.

You might find a replacement for your kids.

Expectations are deadly. Perhaps it hurts, but good to explain not everyone is interested in their kids/grandkids, and you just have to find someone else and move on. Every minute of regret makes it that much worse.

Listen, I have horrible family members, too. My family are not LDS. One brother didn't call our mother for Christmas to wish her well. Out of his six children she babysat for 30 years, only two sent her a holiday card, no calls. I could share volumes of experiences about the abuse and deprivation. So I empathize with you. I have learned to just move on. Be loving and kind and if they are bitter, aloof, and judgemental, since we live in a free society, let them act foolish. That's their choice. They are depriving themselves and their family of authentic and caring relationships. With all the temple visits and religious hypocrisy they got going on, do you really want your husband and children to walk on eggshells and become an emotional wreck? Do they honestly think they will die, go to CK holding grudges and have chips on their shoulders? They will be in shock to realize their attitudes, behaviors and sins against their family are a major obstacle to their eternal progression. You have every right to be angry, disgusted and sad. Find friends who can become substitute family. Write your negative feelings in a journal to park that pain there. Don't carry it with you.

I'd like to suggest doing the opposite of some of the advice above. If this were my own situation, I would write them (by snail mail) a calm and kind, but point blank letter from BOTH of you expressing your disappointment in their lack of Christ-like behavior towards you as FAMILY. I would also complement them on what a WONDERFUL son and father they raised.

This would be your LAST attempt at reaching them. Then let it go if there is no good response or change of behavior. Give them one last chance. But reiterate what you wrote above and make it KIND, but specific and firm.

NO EMAILS or phone calls for this. It must be in a letter they will handle.

I wish you the best outcome.

I did exactly what HelperToo suggested. I wrote a sincere letter to the in-laws, but without direct criticism. I focused on how wonderful and loving their grandchildren are, and how much happiness they bring to our life. I did not ask for anything specific, (especially not money) but said that the grandchildren needed the emotional support of their grandparents.

It did no good. The in-laws spread rumors in their ward (our former ward) that I would not allow them to see my children, and that was their excuse.

If you were to reach out to your in-laws, please leave your children and their birthdays out of it. You would only be opening the door for more rejection, and you might want to spare your children.

Thank you all so much for your sound advice. Had a great talk with my husband and we have decided to just carry on living our lives to the full and move on without the in laws. No more contact from our end toward them. Free Man, you hit the nail on the head.....the church is their family. We can see now that they just don't give a damn for us, so that's how it is. Thanks again folks :)

This is the most correct answer IMO.

There is far too much to look forward to and enjoy in life than to be constantly looking in the rear view mirror in the false hope of rewriting the future with a past that has a proven track record of failure and disappointment.

Make peace with it. Move forward without the emotional anchors.

It's that old adage "the best revenge is success". You've succeeded when the "revenge" part is left behind.

You guys got this! Enjoy the hell out of it!

I wonder if you are a member of our family.

Much of the counsel here is good.

DH's TBM family has neglected us sorely. I used to go on and on complaining about it until the realization hit me that it was a blessing in disguise because any interaction we did have was aimed at sucking our children into the cult. That is just what Mormons do. In fact it is impossible to tell where their genuine affection (if there is any) for their family drops off and their desire to win converts picks up.

That is not my fault, it is there.

Be thankful for their lack of involvement.

Be wise as a serpent and gentle as a dove.

Thank you again for your stories and your wisdom, AmIDarkNow, and all of you. You have brought peace to my soul. I really see now how blessed we are to have 1,000 miles between us and the in laws who don't care for anything else but the Mormon cult. I didn't realize what a blessing those 1,000 miles were until you guys pointed that out to me. Love you all.

He was talking to a couple who had been Jehovah's Witness. The wife had left the church. The husband still attended. I won't go into the whole show.

BUT Dr. Phil said he had the most important question he could possibly ask the husband in his life and he told him that if he was a member of a religion that considered his wife an apostate and didn't welcome her whether she was a member or not, who tried to break up the marriage, he would tell them to kiss his ass and he'd be out of there. He said NO GOD he would ever believe in would ask a family to shun their family members no matter what their beliefs are.

Yep. The mormons. Been trying to take my daughter from me for over 10 years now. I won't let them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2018 01:13PM by cl2.

I see your in-laws behavior as conditional love. Their psyche is based upon influencing people to be obedient mormons. They do this by rewarding correct and desired behavior and not condoning incorrect or unacceptable behavior.

I have a similar situation with my parents. They only live 15 miles away and spend very little time with our children. My father is retired and will spend an entire week at scout camp with a single deacon, but will not spend any time with his own 12 yr old grandson. I honestly think that outside of the church context, he doesn't know what would be the point of spending time with his grandson. He may think "if I can't prepare him for the priesthood, what's the point?"

They have a strong requirement to strengthen the youth and build relationships of trust with people they think they can "love" back into the church. Look at the message the church is brainwashing the seniors with. When they get the sense that I will not have any part of religion and they cannot talk about or influence my children in that aspect, they basically have no use for them. It is kind of like a salesman, once they decide they can't make the sale, they move on.

It still bothers me and makes me sad, but I console myself with the fact that hopefully I am breaking the mormon blood lines and my kids will not be subject to all the pitfalls of the mormon church.

I don't think family hardships are abnormal in or out of the church, just the fact that a church that preaches about the importance of families can be so hypocritical in this area.

It’s not a religion, it’s a cult. And Mormons don’t shun. They just do things that feel like shunning. They can’t see past their blinders.

That would feel like a slap in the face. They were going to a temple; a mind-numbing temple. What is it with people visiting different temples anyway? Are their lives really so lame that they would visit a building that shows the same stupid movie they could see closer to home?

In any case, I am sorry. You, your husband, and your kids deserve better.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2018 01:51PM by Atari.