Why in the glorious Hell can I not say no to my mother? She makes Sunday dinner every night and asks all her kids to be there yet I feel a tension everytime I go. Sure, my siblings are happy whenever I arrive, but I feel like a burden there then anything else. I feel a tether to both my parents I can't seem to sever and it is driving me nuts! A 24 year old shouldn't feel like she needs her parents for emotional gratification.

Perhaps it is secretly her way of control? I have asked and she has said that "nothing brings me greater joy than to have my kids home." I smell manipulative intentions.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2018 02:04PM by lazylizard.

How old are you?

Time to move away or..
Get a job that requires travel or working evenings...
Tell her she has raised strong children that can now spread their wings and leave the nest.

"Nothing brings greater joy than to have kids home" or does she really mean "Nothing brings greater joy than to feel important by having my kids dependent on me" maybe?

Tell her it's time she figures out how to entertain herself and not keep using the kids. I do not know if you have kids and she wants to be the babysitting grandma or what her deal is.

Remember that the Mormon mindset is that her worth is from raising little happy Mormons who all play along with the "family church" design. She probably doesn't know how to do anything else.

You are going to have to spine up and develop some way to do what YOU want to do, not what she expects. It's hard. I had to move away.

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How old are you?
>
> Time to move away or..
> Get a job that requires travel or working
> evenings...
> Tell her she has raised strong children that can
> now spread their wings and leave the nest.
>
> "Nothing brings greater joy than to have kids
> home" or does she really mean "Nothing brings
> greater joy than to feel important by having my
> kids dependent on me" maybe?
>
> Tell her it's time she figures out how to
> entertain herself and not keep using the kids. I
> do not know if you have kids and she wants to be
> the babysitting grandma or what her deal is.
>
> Remember that the Mormon mindset is that her worth
> is from raising little happy Mormons who all play
> along with the "family church" design. She
> probably doesn't know how to do anything else.
>
> You are going to have to spine up and develop some
> way to do what YOU want to do, not what she
> expects. It's hard. I had to move away.

I am 24, unmarried, no kids, moved out and have a job. I feel you are correct in that she needs gratification from other's happiness she can control. Honestly, it is hard to say no when it comes to family and it drives me nuts.

24 year old woman that can't say no? What's your address?

Thought you had a wife and kids stillanon, your behavior and story isn't matching up who would of thought i think you need to go back under the bridge where you belong.

StillAnon Wrote:
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> 24 year old woman that can't say no? What's your
> address?


It is 123 on noneyabussiness lane.

Nice, he's a creepy old married man apparently with a very successful son. Do not write down any personal information because he will write it down immediately trust me i know this and so do others.

Badassadam1 Wrote:
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> Nice, he's a creepy old married man apparently
> with a very successful son. Do not write down any
> personal information because he will write it down
> immediately trust me i know this and so do others.


Yeah kinda figured that was the case. I plan to not give any major info.

He kept a phone number i gave months ago. It's a good thing i change location and phone number quite often. I did kind of want to see the kind of person i was dealing with though in real life. I am a curious one when it comes to people like this.

You actually do fascinate me caffiend. You are very impressive to me and i am hard to impress, i read your letter twice and read some of the articles you gave me. One of the advice on the articles was to stop getting on my phone which i need to do. I actually don't need a phone i know how to find everything and when my appointments are. This is just a distraction before my neck surgery basically to keep my mind active or something i guess. I have to quit battling certain people on purpose, i love to fight too much especially mental warfare. Mormonism is all mental warfare, you either submit or you battle the programming and you don't. The lds brainwashing and fear tactics fascinate me because it is so effective against millions even after you leave it is still mental warfare in my opinion especiallyon sunday. You are a good dude caffiend i apologize for anything i said to you. I have pain issues that i am still trying to resolve and winter is always a tough period for me. I may write you back after my neck surgery i don't know. There are a lot of things i want to get off my chest still but don't want to keep getting made fun of here. And there is only an hour to tell the counselor stuff and that is not a whole lot of time in my opinion. I hope your books turn out well.

StillAnon Wrote:
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> 24 year old woman that can't say no? What's your
> address?


LOLOLOL Hey, thinking fast on your feet there!

Thanks for taking the joke as intended.

I thought it was funny, too.

I used to be in the same situation. My father used sunday dinners as a control mechanism but i think he thought it was love or something. It took me till about 33 years old to tell my father to quit calling me every sunday for family dinner i am not 17 anymore i had to tell him and i am in counseling to teach me how to be a true and independant adult. The non-lds counseling is what finally gave me the strength against my very angry and controlling father. Every dinner was tense growing up i remember and i am never doing that to myself again i decided.

"Sorry Mom. I have other plans this week. Talk to you later."

Cheryl coming in clutch.

Some families are that way. But it doesn't mean that you must always join your family for Sunday dinner. Personally, I think once a month would be plenty.

summer Wrote:
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> Some families are that way. But it doesn't mean
> that you must always join your family for Sunday
> dinner. Personally, I think once a month would be
> plenty.


True, it would be nice just once in awhile but she wants it to be every week. I may stay home instead tonight.

I went through this also. Be strong, lazylizard! You can do it!

Say, "Mom, I have other plans. I'll see you on the [date] if that's convenient for you."

You don't have to tell her what your other plans entail. It could be simply binge-watching Netflix. But having said that, try to develop activities with your friends at least some of the time -- maybe brunch or a movie matinee. At age 24, you should be developing some independence and finding your adult identity.

Is Super Bowl Sunday an event for your family? Tell her you'll see her then.

Probably mormon conditioning. The church likes to keep its minions childlike and dependent, therefore obedient and submissive.

Its cult of obedience to authority extends to "honor thy father and mother," which manipulative parents twist into "do whatever we say for life." So your conditioning kicks in and you cave.

Your mom's a victim too, the idea being ingrained in her that her personal worth is wrapped up in her children. She may not have a separate identity other than that. The church has infantilized her as well.

Realistically, the dynamic won't change until you take charge of yourself. No one else has a reason to do it.

Yes, she'll (claim to?) be sad, and she'll never miss an opportunity to let you know just how sad you're (allegedly) making her. She'll turn on the water works and have your dad and siblings gang up on you to reel you back in.

Everyone lets their parents down on occasion. In my (own personal) opinion, it's not even possible to become a fully functioning, independent adult *without* disappointing one's parents. It's part of developing your own identity and living a normal life. At some point, the psychological consequences of not being true to yourself will outweigh those of hurting your folks' feelings, and you'll finally be able to say "No" *and* outlast the inevitable storm.

Your parents have been disappointed before, and they're still alive. They'll survive this too. Your mother can handle a few dinners without your presence, despite her protests.

Remember: If you can be manipulated, you will be. It's up to you to make sure that won't happen.

Howdy Lazylizard, at 24 I think you’re going to find that things can change very quickly. So, for now, try to enjoy that your family is all together.

That said, I’d start job hunting for something at least 500 miles away from your parents. There’s nothing like space to give you the freedom to live your life.

Best wishes, The Bone

I heartily agree with the moving far away idea. They'll really get over it and quit bugging you so much.

I'm a mother, and I genuinely love my adult children--unconditionally--as I always have. "Nothing gives me greater joy" than to be with my children and grandchildren. That is the sincere truth.

Still--it would NOT bring me joy to see them dependent on me, or to have them drag themselves over to my house out of obligation, if they would rather be skiing or working or enjoying their own family time.

An mother who loves unconditionally wants to see her children happy, and living their own independent life. After all--is that not a mother's ultimate goal. As in nature, babies eventually fly away from the nest. Often, they return as adults to nest in the same tree. Those starlings who have have nested year after year, for the past 30 years, in the hollow of the birch tree could not be the very same starlings--but are probably the progeny of the original starlings. My children flew off to get their education, but returned because they wanted to, and live less than a mile away from me. If I had smothered them, or forced them to go to church, or interfered in their career choices, etc., I would not be in their life. That's just how they are: independent individuals.

Perhaps your mother's motives are selfish--I don't know her--but you would be happier giving her the benefit of the doubt. Don't try to read people's mind. Your concern is that your Mother is controlling every Sunday night of your life--regardless of her motives.

If YOU feel you need more space, then take it! Set a boundary! You can always change hour boundaries, as you see fit. Begin with a compromise. IMO, once a week is too invasive. Don't your siblings ever want a cozy family Sunday dinner in their own house? I like to give my family privacy, so they don't have to let me know what they are doing all the time.

Do you date? Do you have friends you would like to be with? Do like to ski or play or chill and decompress on Sunday, and prepare for Monday? You're an adult, and you have a right to do whatever you choose to do.

How your siblings handle your mother is up to them, though I wonder when their in-laws get to see them, if every Sunday evening is taken? (Juggling everyone and their in-laws, and grandparents, and step-parents this Christmas was horrendous, so I had the celebrations at my house on different days, to work around that.)

Cheryl gives good advice. You don't need to make excuses or explain yourself. "I have other plans" is a reasonable response. If you want to be polite, say, "Thank you for inviting me." Giving your mother a few days advance notice would be considerate.

Perhaps you and your siblings can take turns inviting your parents over to their houses. We did that with my TBM in-laws, and we each had them once a week, which we felt was reasonable. We would often combine families for birthdays and holidays, and family barbecues, and the cousins enjoyed playing together. When you have children, you might like your family dinners more.
The bottom line added up to about once a month--but you set your own boundaries of how often.

It seems its a crime to be close to your family and how dare your parents want to see you! I was raised in Ireland where people are close to one another mostly and if theres a time they would rather be alone or are busy they just say so. I find it shocking the way people in this country treat each other. No wonder America is such an awful mess.If your parents have been abusive or contentious I can understand the reaction.

belfastgirl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seems its a crime to be close to your family
> and how dare your parents want to see you! I was
> raised in Ireland where people are close to one
> another mostly and if theres a time they would
> rather be alone or are busy they just say so. I
> find it shocking the way people in this country
> treat each other. No wonder America is such an
> awful mess.If your parents have been abusive or
> contentious I can understand the reaction.


My family's dynamic is complicated. We never ever speak of things that are serious. Everyone is so sarcastic it will make your head spin.
Growing up, my brother beat the shit out of me but parents didn't listen. I was always told I was a drama queen and got sent to my room for hours on end to "think about what I did" because dad and mom had no idea how to "handle" me.

Granted my mother would come in when I was in my room, but tried to make me see that I was the one at fault for hitting back and trying to defend myself.

I can go on and on, but better not.
So yeah, I am a little distant towards my family.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2018 04:49PM by lazylizard.

Because deep down, we all want to be a "good" child. What's more important is to be a good adult.

You can see there are a variety of approaches to this, but let's take the one that focuses on you. As an adult, you have earned the right to own your time and you are seeing that this time is being requested back, sometimes with manipulative techniques.

You are the only expert on yourself. You alone know how you feel when you are with your family and forced to endure the familiar dynamics that make you feel bad. Nobody will protect you--only you can put an end to the discomfort.

You don't have to explain or defend why you don't want to go every week. You have an obligation to yourself to be kind and loving to yourself. You deserve it, you went through hell as a child with an abusive brother. You have earned the right to relief. (I almost said "god-given")

It's up to you what you tell your mother. Since you have difficulty saying "no" to her, I will assume you would prefer a kind one.

STEP ONE You can text or email, "I won't be coming this week but will be able to join you on the 24th. I have some things I have to do and I look forward to seeing you all then."

What do you have to do?

I'm taking a new online class/I have a new boyfriend/I joined AA/I am volunteering with disabled children.

The thing you use as your explanation should be true. Take a class on how to operate your sewing machine. It's 10 minutes on YouTube. Taking up a hobby like art or music is always time consuming.

You may decide to leave it as vague as possible, saying, "It's personal" or "I'll let you know later if it works out."

STEP TWO

It's great to see you all. I look forward on seeing you next month, same time, the third week.

Why?

This is what works into my new schedule.


Your new schedule includes more time for self-care, more time for yourself. A mother who really loves you will respect you taking good care of yourself. A healthy mother lets her children go, patting herself on the back for doing such a good job.

Your mother doesn't sound that healthy but that doesn't mean you have to be unhealthy too. Feeling guilty for not spending every single week with your family of origin is not healthy. Once a month visit with a phone call every week is plenty.

Most adults call their parents once a week. Nobody visits every weekend unless their parent is dying.

Good luck!


Kathleen



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2018 10:15PM by anagrammy.

anagrammy where are you?

"Nobody visits every weekend unless their parent is dying."

i see my folks a few times a week. coffee, dinner, playing some music . . . love having them over and giving back

America is in a mess that is for sure, but it has been bad for at least seventeen years in my opinion. If i lived in canada i would of had health coverage at all times of my life for just one example.

You could just move north a few hours. Then, your medical issue would be covered.

>>I find it shocking the way people in this country treat each other.

Why, because a 24 year old doesn't want to be locked into a weekly dinner? I love my family and I see them a lot, but not normally every week.

Does your mother cry, throw a tantrum, give you the silent treatment, try to make you feel guilty or something of that sort if you decline an invitation to dinner? If not, I don't think her dinner invitations can be construed as manipulative. She may just like seeing her family, just like she says.

I love spending time with my adult kids. I make big Sunday dinners too and there's always an open invitation for my grown kids to come.

If you really don't want to go, then like others have suggested, find a way to politely decline.

I’d give anything to have dinner with my mom.

Me too Kathleen. You beat me to it.:(

My mother-in-law asked us over for dinner every Sunday, and every holiday. She asked us way ahead, so that I wouldn't have had time yet to be asked by my parents.

Finally, I told my husband, "If your mother has her way, I would never get to see my family on any holiday, let alone on any Sunday". But then, my parents moved much farther away from us, which made it too unpractical to visit them very often.

Once, my mother-in-law made a point of telling me we should ALWAYS go to her house on Sunday', 'as my parents had other children who could go to my mother's house'. What!? Never visit my parents and family again on a holiday, because they had more than 2 children? (They had six, but a couple moved out-of-state.)

Anyway, my MIL considered herself a queen bee, who deserved--and should get--special attention in all things family related.

Oh well, it's of no matter now.
----

BTB, you got some good advice above about how to "just say no" from the other posters on this subject.

It's got to be learned sometime, and sooner is always better than later. (Why suffer needlessly?).

Best Wishes

Make other plans. Then tell them you've made other plans.

If they say, "But we ALWAYS have dinner together," reply, "Exactly. It's time for something else."

OP, I went through the same thing with my brother. And according to dear old mother, it was just fine. I was not allowed to fight back either. If I did, mother would beat me. Makes no sense. Then , years later, you are gaslighted if you try and talk about it. They tried to continue the golden child, scapegoat, and malignant narcissist dynamic, but f***, no, I got the hell out of dodge ASAP. Nobody who truly cares for your well being would impose their selfish will upon you. Tell them no when you want to, and throw any and all guilt out the window. (((Hugs))) and love to you.

May I present an opposite situation? My son is 23 years old, and our main goal in life is to get him to move out. I would never insist that he come over every Sunday. I would love to not have to accommodate his food preferences and timetable. But seems that we will be stuck for a long, long time.

Guilt is the age old manipulation technique of preference used in families. They love it because it is so easily disguised as loving concern.

Tell your mother that your latest guy friend has a mother that feels the same way about Sunday dinners. Since he holds the priesthood and you do not, you feel it is best to attend his family dinners. But if you are apostate and your mother knows this, you'll have to find another way out. Maybe you could just ask her why it feels like a burden to you to be there. Make her answer the question. If she offers you the option to not attend then run with it and praise her for her wisdom and unconditional love. Turn the tables and make it her idea.

Mormonism has a way of messing with families. It's awful.

readwrite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mormonism has a way of messing with families. It's
> awful.


Yeah it does. I left last year and feel so good! My dad is wanting to leave as well.

lazylizard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> readwrite Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Mormonism has a way of messing with families.
> It's
> > awful.
>
>
> Yeah it does. I left last year and feel so good!
> My dad is wanting to leave as well.

Yea. The more that leave, the merrier.

Lazylizard, does your abusive brother go to the Sunday dinners?
If he's there, this changes everything!

My brother was the neighborhood bully, and he was 6 years older than I. My parents always said that they couldn't control him, so they allowed him to do anything he wanted to me, whenever he felt like it. I always had bruises, a black eye, a bloody nose, from his assaults. He broke my toys and bicycles. He frightened my friends and, later my boyfriends. I dated some boys I really liked, and my brother used to walk into the living room where we were talking, and he would be wearing nothing but his temple garments--and I could never live down the humiliation. When I got bigger, I could out-run him, and climb a tree or jump the high fence in our back yard, to escape. I also wore oxford shoes, as part of my school uniform, and learned to kick--hard. Whenever I would defend myself, or scream in pain, my parents punished ME! I can't believe your parents did the same thing to you. My parents said I was "making a fuss" and they blamed me for provoking him. No child in their right mind would deliberately provoke a monster like my brother.

My brother lived at home, and was always there, every day, and for every family dinner, every holiday. I left home the day after high school graduation, never to return. I visited on vacations, and it was torture. When I had children, my brother started abusing them--and that was unacceptable. I invited my parents to come and see me at my house, instead. We had a family cabin, and my brother would show up, uninvited, and my children and I would just go home, and it would be the end of our vacation. I stopped going to family reunions, because my brother would corner me in a hallway or in the woods, and put his hands all over my body, then run away, before I could kick him. Nasty!

If by going to Sunday dinner, you are putting yourself in harm's way, with your brother, then you have a right to stay away. Invite your parents to your home, or to meet you for lunch, without your brother. If you do go to dinner, stay at the table, where it is safe, then do the dishes in the kitchen with your mother, and immediately leave. Say you have to get home early to prepare for Monday. Everyone needs to prepare for Mondays!

If your family is normal, then once a month seems reasonable. I'm a mother and grandmother, and like some of these posters, love to have my family over for dinner, but I don't have them on Sundays, because my children's in-laws live in town, and they seem to "own" Sundays. We also do something fun once a month, like ski or hike, etc. About once a month, I go over to each one of their houses, to babysit, or to play with the grandchildren, and give the parents a bit of a break from their kids. Sometimes I take the kids out to the park, or to McDonald's, etc. They each see me about twice a month, which gives them distance and freedom. I get to see kids almost once a week, altogether. Plus, I go to their games and performances, and help out at their birthday parties, etc.

You could invite your parents to something YOU do, or to a movie, or something, instead of dinner. It doesn't always have to be Sundays, or always for dinner at their house.

Casually say you'd like to mix it up a bit. I like the idea of making another date, each time you turn them down. "I won't be at dinner next Sunday, but I'll be there the Sunday after that."

Be casual, like it's no big deal.

I think that asking a young, 20-something family member to attend a weekly dinner is putting too great a burden on that person. You deserve to have your own life! And what on Earth is your mom going to do when the spouses and children start arriving? Cook the equivalent of a Thanksgiving meal every week?

Attend those dinners at a pace that feels comfortable to you -- perhaps every four to six weeks. That is frequent enough to catch up with everyone. Just let your mom know in advance when you are coming or not coming.