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Posted by: mightybuffalo ( )
Date: January 05, 2018 01:46PM

What's up guys. I've missed the hell out of ya. Been CRAZY busy.

First, good news, I was accepted to the Medical College of Wisconsin in Milwaukee and the Uniformed Services University Med school in Maryland. I interviewed at University of Colorado SOM a month ago and should hear back from them by the end of the month or so. Still have an interview at the U of U med school this month.

I'm gonna be a doctor!

With regards to leaving the church-- gosh I'm so anxious. I graduate BYU in April and it seriously can't come soon enough. If you recall, I started telling my wife some of my "doubts" as per request by my old bishop. She said she would look into them and never has.

It's funny how there are key commandments for mormons. Like the WOW and Tithing. My wife thinks that me drinking coffee is more damnable than the lies she tells her family, or the judgment we pass on other people. Admitting my doubts has really opened my eyes to the fact that mormons don't admit it, but COMPLETELY believe in checklist salvation. What hypocrisy!

Anyways, I'm kind of hurt. Wifey told me she wants to start seeing a marriage counselor. I'm only hurt because I didn't think WE were doing poorly. Yet, I'm actually kind of glad, I have a feeling that if we see one, the counselor will gladly point out that any issues about faith between us are being blown out of proportion. I think she wants us to see an LDS counselor though. Anyone have a good or bad experience there? More than happy to see any counselor if it means happy wife.

To continue, wifey told one of my "TBM" brothers about my struggles, ironic thing is he puts on the TBM show but doesn't have a testimony. He confronted me over the holidays and we laughed about it with some fresh colorado edibles ;)

She also talked to my dad which caused an interesting conversation with him. He basically told me that for the sake of my marriage I should just learn to live at peace with my issues with the church. To be honest, I have no idea how anyone could EVER live the TBM way knowing the things that are plain to know with a little bit of research. I explained to him that I just can't walk the line with one foot in and one foot out. Does it scare me that my wife might love me less for it? Yes. But I've come to the realization lately that if she chooses to let this ruin our marriage, maybe she isn't the kind of woman I want to spend my life with. I am really interested to see how things turn out come April when I FULLY open up to my wife. I've only been holding it back in fear of BYU expelling me for it.

Well, long update. I'd be glad to hear from anyone and everyone =)

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Posted by: eternal1 ( )
Date: January 05, 2018 01:53PM

I would insist on a non-lds counselor.

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Posted by: [|] ( )
Date: January 05, 2018 07:21PM

No LDS counselor. It has been reported that they want you to sign a release to allow them to discuss things with your bishop. If that happens before you graduate, your graduation could be in jeopardy. My advice would be to lay low until graduation - fake being TBM if necessary. If you must go to counselling before graduation, make it a non-LDS one only.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: January 05, 2018 01:57PM

Make sure that you and your wife get this sorted out before kids come along. See if someone here can give you a referral for a counselor in Provo.

That's lovely that you have two acceptances already! That must give you peace of mind. It will be nice to have a choice.

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Posted by: mightybuffalo ( )
Date: January 05, 2018 02:48PM

Yeah any recommendations on a good counselor in Provo/Orem area would be awesome.

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Posted by: Elyse ( )
Date: January 05, 2018 03:40PM

Don't do it.

Between now and getting out of BYU do not say anything to anyone.

Also, if the wife blabs/confides to anyone it could really sink your future plans.

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Posted by: Particles of Faith ( )
Date: January 05, 2018 11:33PM

I agree...stay under the radar. All of your medical school acceptances are contingent upon receipt of that bachelor’s degree.

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Posted by: Gaffer ( )
Date: January 07, 2018 03:18AM

I concur!!!

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: January 05, 2018 02:05PM

Congratulations on your (at present) two acceptances...this is a major, major, MAJOR accomplishment!!!

(Which you already know, of course, but I, personally, am in awe!!!)

My best wishes go out to you....in your choice of medical school, and in finding the optimum way(s) forward in your relationship with your wife.

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Posted by: Elyse ( )
Date: January 05, 2018 02:56PM

You married wayyyyy too young.

Being tied down to a TBM wife while in medical school could be extremely stressful.

If your gonna get divorced do so before you start making any real money, she may limit your options in everything,.

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Posted by: CateS ( )
Date: January 05, 2018 04:22PM

So for wifey what is the bigger pull? TBM or DOCTOR. This must be killing her.

I want both!

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: January 05, 2018 04:39PM

Come April, and you shift your tassel, I'd tell her how things really are with your 'testimony'. You can offer to go over the reasons you've reached your conclusions, which will give you some insight on how things are going to go.

If she expresses calm interest in reviewing your sources, you have a chance.

If she mimics her mother (and Cold Dodger's mother) and does the fetal curl, just say, "There, there... we can work something out..." Then start rehearsing how to remain calm and serene (on the outside) when mormons start berating you for losing your testimony.

I would advocate against trying to reach some middle ground, because then you will NOT be living YOUR life. Living YOUR life is the most fun you can ever have.

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Posted by: numbersRus ( )
Date: January 05, 2018 05:29PM

your actual diploma and an official copy of your transcript with the degree posted

Hold off on the counseling thing until you're graduated as well lest word "get around".

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Posted by: Gaffer ( )
Date: January 07, 2018 03:19AM

I concur...again!!!

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Posted by: subeamnotlogedin ( )
Date: January 05, 2018 04:46PM

Give your wife time, the brainwashing runs deep.

I love this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr3JYFX1Czg&t=39s

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Posted by: scmd not logged in ( )
Date: January 05, 2018 04:53PM

Congratulations on the medical school acceptances. They're all good schools. i'm partial to the u of u, but that's neither here nor there.

My cousin went to an LDS counselor at his wife's insistence when issues related to the church became issues in their marriage. They're now divorced. You can obviously do whatever you want, but if you go to an LDS counselor and have no plans to return to the LDS church, you might just as well start filling out divorce papers in advance. If the issues confounding you and your wife were that either one of you insisted on following bizarre Armenian rituals, would you seek help from a counselor who was Armenian? If one of you had issues with compulsive gambling, would your source of mediation be from a compulsive gambler? Your wife needs to understand your need for neutrality in the counseling or mediation process, or it's pointless. You might just as well talk to your bishop. The counselor will function as a de facto extension of your bishop.

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Posted by: scmd not logged in ( )
Date: January 05, 2018 05:03PM

P.S. This is your business, but I would advise you to do anything in your power to avoid conceiving any children before this is worked out. If it can't be worked out, you don't want to be stuck paying child support while you're in medical school.

I married following year one of medical school. It was hard enough just having a spouse who wanted attention during those years. (The spouse also took care of EVERYTHING even though she was teaching full-time and in law school, so it was a win-win situation for me. I always had clean socks and underwear, and there was always food that just needed to be re-heated.) I saw guys who were dealing with children at that time. Most of them were bald and/or gray before finishing medical school. Some of that had to have been genetics, but we couldn't help noticing that the guys who were single or at least childless looked ten years younger than the family men did when we all graduated.

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Posted by: scmd not logged in ( )
Date: January 06, 2018 06:24AM

U of U is friendly to non-Mormons It tries hard NOT to be BYU, but it may not be ideal if you try to stick with your marriage if family is nearby. If you call it quites on the marriage, it doesn't matter.

I agree with others who have said to play the game until your degree is posted. Once that has happened, all bets are off. Go to a non-LDS marriage counselor. If it doesn't work, cut ties legally and go your own way. If there are no children in the picture yet, try to keep it that way, and don't take your wife's word for it when she says she is taking care of contraception.

Some have suggested that an LDS counselor will rat you out to your bishop. If you're going through official channels through the church to obtain counseling, such may be the case. If you contract a counselor privately, unless you give him or her consent in writing to disclose information to your bishop or to anyone else, he or she may not do so. As a HIPAA violation, such would be grounds for a whopping law suit from you and grounds for the counselor to lose his or her license. I still recommend seeing someone who is not LDS if anyone at all, as the experience of most people who have sought counseling from an LDS practitioner is that the counselor cannot leave his or her ingrained beliefs out of the counseling process; it would be a waste of your time and money. The idea that any LDS counselor is going to share information with your bishop, however, is ludicrous, and could be highly lucrative for you if he or she did so. Still, I would neither waste my time on it nor risk my degree on the outside chance that the person was acquainted with your bishop and was unprofessional enough to disseminate information.

I married somewhat early, too. I had just turned 23 and my wife was 19. Looking back, it was a roll of the dice with odds heavily stacked against us. I lucked out because my wife was more mature than I and gave me room to act like a bachelor and a college kid for a few years. She worked her butt off with teaching full-time, attending law school full-time, and making our tiny apartment a comfortable place where my colleagues would want to come for study nights. We would study until all hours of the night while she studied her own material and prepared materials for her teaching job. Then she would clean up after us when everyone finally went home. (I cringe in embarrassment years after the fact when I recall her cleaning up the messes that my study mates and I made.) She says now that it was well worth it because she didn't have to worry about where I was.

One reason I think my marriage survived through the medical school and residency years is that my wife, too, was in school. Her knowledge didn't cease to grow after high school or three years of college or whenever it is that many future doctors' wives end their formal education. She had bachelor's of science degrees in math and English, a master's in educational psychology, and, the same year I graduated from medical school, she completed her doctorate of jurisprudence. She was accepted into several medical schools, but her parents talked her into law school because they didn't think she was healthy enough to complete medical school. Her final year of law school, she had a major cystic fibrosis episode, along with a perforated ileum, and barely survived. She would not have made it through medical school, as things turned out. Law school was the better alternative.

my wife attended BYU on a student-athlete scholarship, but she was never LDS. She didn't grow up with the mindset that the Earth is merely six thousand years old, or with any of the other ridiculous dogma so many of us who were born into the LDS church grew up taking for granted. She was someone I was not going to mentally outgrow as my education continued and my knowledge grew.
Had i married any of the little Molly Mormons my mom picked out for me, such would not have been the case, and we would have grown apart until one or both of us faced reality and ended the marriage. God only knows how many children's lives might have been affected. Thank goodness the woman I did marry was smart enough to recognize that in today's world, we have the power to control when children join our families, in the vast majority of all cases, if we use approach contraception with the same careful attention that we give to the most important things in our lives.
As well-matched as we were, it was all we could manage during those hectic years just to deal with each other, her career, and our respective educations, and at the end of my medical school education and her law school education, her illness. A baby would have been the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back that was our marriage.Then, following medical school, a physician has the lovely internship/residency experience, which often makes medical school appear retroactively like a walk in the park.

Only you and she can know if this marriage can be saved (Is that monthly featured still in "Lady's Home Journal"? My mom used to read it aloud to my dad every month. My dad's response was usually, "Who would want to save that marriage?") or if it is with one worth saving. I don't know how much of yourselves the two of you have invested in it, but if your opting out of the LDS church is a deal-breaker for her, and if several sessions with a neutral counselor fail to show her that the sum of your marriage is more that the covenants you made to the church across the altar in an LDS temple, you might be wise to cut your losses and to end the marriage before your medical education becomes a tangible asset to be adjucated in the property division settlement of your divorce. (Different states view the asset status of educations differently. She might be savvy enough to know this and to file in a state where the ruling would be favorable to her. You might be wise to do the research yourself in your break between undergrad and medical school studies and to do the filing yourself in a state where the property division laws would be advantageous to you.

If you don't yet have children and have few assets, the property division should be relatively straightforward. Let her have whatever "stuff" she wants as long as she asks for no spousal support. Split any cash you have down the middle. (As a medical school student, you will be in no position to take on a part-time job just to fund spousal support.). You don't want to have to take out more loans than you would otherwise need to incur just for providing spousal support for an able-bodied woman. The sooner you make this official, the less equity she has in your medical education. If you file before you set foot in your medical school, she has no claim on any equity in it whatsoever.

I may be reading her all wrong. She may come around and be willing to hear everything you have to say about the church, and may be willing either to leave with you or to maintain a marriage and relationship without having the church be a centerpiece. I'd be highly surprised if such were the case, though. The kindest think would be to cut all strings while you're both still young and no children are involved.

As others have stated, keep a low profile, even showing up at church once in awhile and giving the occasional obligatory prayer. Then, diploma and transcript in hand, make your move. Be prepared to file well before your first day of medical school.

This all sounds so calculated, but if you do not look out for yourself, no one else is likely to do so. It's not far-fetched to think that she may already be consulting with a bishop who may have knowledge about such things in regard to how to go about getting as much from you as possible when the inevitable split occurs. All their discussions would be moot if you were to end things before children are in the picture and before any significant assets are in the picture.

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Posted by: scmd not logged in ( )
Date: January 06, 2018 06:30AM

As a post-script to my previous post, your wife has serious boundary issues. She should not be discussing marital issues with anyone, whether it be her friends or her or your family members.
As long as there is no abuse, what goes on in the privacy of your marriage is not for any relative to know. I would be seriously concerned about her feelings of entitlement to discuss this with your relatives. and if she's discussing it with members of your family, only God knows what she's discussing with her own family members. your marriage is going to grow very crowded quite soon if it isn't so already.

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Posted by: mightybuffalo ( )
Date: January 15, 2018 03:44PM

scmd funny thing is she DOESN'T mention a word of this to HER family.

Thanks for the well thought out post though. That all makes a lot of sense and it really gives an honest perspective. Needed it =)

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Posted by: subeamnotlogedin ( )
Date: January 05, 2018 04:57PM

I went to an lds counselor years ago and it was bad! Her advice to us was to attened to temple, read the Book of Mormom and to pray more. I kid you not. Our main problem was dealing with the inlaws and reading the Book of Mormon and all that did not help with the issue.

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Posted by: Jane Cannary ( )
Date: January 15, 2018 04:06PM

Go back and say ok I read the BoM. So I take it your advice is to hire some stripling warriors to deal with the in-laws?

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Posted by: Darren Steers ( )
Date: January 05, 2018 05:06PM

I went to an LDS counselor with my first wife. It was a disaster. The counselor was a contributor to the end of the marriage.

Insist on a Non-LDS counselor.

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Posted by: Dr Little Bear ( )
Date: January 05, 2018 05:10PM

I have been in your shoes. And just a few years ahead of you. Stop posting stop talking and do nothing until you have graduated. All your Med school dreams go away if BYU catch’s wind and holds up your graduation or prevents it all together. Stop eating Colorado eatables very likely you will be undergoing drug testing on admission to Med school. Use a non LDS therapist. Good luck in school. Your medical education is only going to re confirm how messed up the LDS Church really is.

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Posted by: praydude ( )
Date: January 08, 2018 03:48PM

I agree with this advice ^^ Stay low and off-the-radar until you get your degree and are OUT. Good luck to you and I hope the best for the both of you!

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Posted by: danr ( )
Date: January 08, 2018 04:19PM

I agree and in addition--don't have children yet!

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Posted by: Not logged inC9YBU ( )
Date: January 05, 2018 05:11PM

Absolutely do not talk with an LDS counselor in Provo!! Word will leak back and your graduation is in jeopardy. Attend your student ward to meet requirements. Do not let anyone in family know you are seeing a counselor if you go that route. If it does leak out then it will be your wife that spilled it. Tell her the conditions of seeing a counselor- absolutely non-LDS- are this stays between you and her. If she can’t do that then not worth going they the trials of med school with her. Trust me I’m a doctor

Gatorman

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Posted by: bobofitz ( )
Date: January 05, 2018 05:58PM

Shhhhh.....

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: January 05, 2018 06:42PM

They side with the believing mormon spouse and against the exmo. Sometimes they urge divorce if the exmo refuses to return to church and if they don't follow mormon expectations against coffee drinking and wearing garments.

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: January 05, 2018 07:03PM

WOWZA - congrats on your graduation (coming up real soon) and on getting into med school - which one you like best!

About LDS Counselor - remember they have you sign a "contract" of sorts and anything you tell the counselor can be shared with your bishop, who will report to BYU. NOT GOOD!

My view? Don't do it. It's all about you getting your testimony back so you can go to the Celestial Kingdom!

I recommend you look strongly at your marriage and if you have no belief in your wife changing her view, it's time to take another look at who you want to be married to. And: no kids! Not in this situation! That would just complicate everything.

She see's this as you pulling the rug out from under her in every way possible. It is likely she does not have the ability to have an open mind. Might depend on how patient you are and how gently you can handle her years of upbringing (family and culture) as it doesn't budge easily.

Maybe, moving to a different area, away from family could be helpful to evaluating what is really important.

Best wishes!

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Posted by: pollythinks ( )
Date: January 05, 2018 07:22PM

Posted by: numbersRus ( ): "...might want to wait until you have...your actual diploma and an official copy of your transcript with the degree posted. Hold off on the counseling thing until you're graduated as well lest word 'get around'".
---

Above sounds good to me. What's your hurry? Take first things first, then you can make other important decisions. (You wouldn't be the first who have had to struggle to get the degree papers you earned from BYU, so why risk otherwise?)

As you said, you're not so sure you want to stay married to your wife if she is not on your side (which would be a big drag and thorn in your side, and hers).

Your choices can all turn into being positive, if you 'do it your way'. As you said, with joy in your words, "I'm going to be a doctor". Don't let the kill-joys pull you down.

Congratulations, and Best Wishes.
P

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Posted by: exminion ( )
Date: January 05, 2018 07:39PM

I agree that you should be very cautious. Trust no one! Not even your wife. Especially do not trust her brother, who does not have your best interest at heart (BYU could expel you for using weed), and who is a phony to both Mormons and non-Mormos alike.

A Mormon therapist is guaranteed to report to your bishop! Personally, I won't hire Mormons for any job, because they cult comes first--above their career, their integrity, their family, above their employers and clients. I know many stories of bad experiences with Mormon therapists. I went to one, briefly, and his advice was form me and my husband to have a planned date-night, just the two of us, once a week. My reply was, "So, you want us to go out only one night a week, instead of 3-4 times a week? I know spouses who have used counseling as a weapon, and an excuse for divorce--as well as counselors precipitating the divorce. When I was in Mormon marriage counseling, I began to hate my husband for not supporting me in all my church callings, and not joining in with our sons in Scouting, etc., etc. I quit counseling, and decided to be more appreciative of my husband.

I know a lot of doctors. Many of my cousins and uncles are doctors. One cousin's wife had 5 children, when he was in medical school, and she had a nervous breakdown. More of the marriages ended in failure than survived. Even a good med-school-internship-residency marriage is taxed to the limit. A good doctor's wife must be quite independent and secure in herself.

Several of the doctors I know grew away from their wife, as they learned more about science and the real world. They became impatient with pettiness and time-wasters. At the U, among the doctors was the old (cruel) adage: "Marry a woman who will put you through medical school, then after you graduate, divorce her, and marry a woman you love--then start thinking about having children."

To be fair to young doctors, marriage--especially a young marriage--is a risky proposition, because a lot of growth takes place during those young adult years. The young working wife usually has an underpaid, unsatisfying job--especially in Provo--which leaves her drained and bored. The student-doctor is learning new and exciting things, which enhances his ego and broadens his world. He simply out-grows his wife.

You are not first with your wife. The cult is. The more you grow, the more the cult will annoy you. You are giving the marriage a fair shot, and all your wife wants to do is CHANGE YOU. You came to your own conclusion:

"But I've come to the realization lately that if she chooses to let this ruin our marriage, maybe she isn't the kind of woman I want to spend my life with."

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Posted by: mightybuffalo ( )
Date: January 15, 2018 03:56PM

wow profound advice here exminion. thanks

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Posted by: nevermojohn ( )
Date: January 05, 2018 08:40PM

I agree with all the above advice.

I just wanted to congratulate you on your medical school acceptances. The only thing standing between you and medical school is graduation.

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Posted by: BYU Boner ( )
Date: January 05, 2018 10:42PM

Mighty Buffalo, I've struggled with what to write...first, congratulations on successful medical school acceptance!

I've stayed in a long-term marriage for the sake of the kids and to keep the peace. I'm a firm believer in not trying to think of how things would have been if I would have made a different decision. But, long-term does NOT equal love or fulfillment. And, as strange as this may sound...kids grow up and move away :)

If you don't have children, PLEASE use birth-control--don't trust your wife to do it. Children will only complicate things. If you do have children, don't mess them up by putting them in the middle between you and your wife. Resolve that, in Utah, the courts will most likely give her custody. Don't fight it, but be a conscientious Dad for them if you have kids.

At your stage in life, if your marriage isn't going to work out, it's best that you get out now before things get more complicated with children and property. Remember that as you find a career and begin to make money, your wife will have certain claims on your income and retirement.

Go on auto-pilot with the church and wife for a few more months until BYU grants you your degree. Then, find a marriage counselor that can help you and your wife decide where the two of you will go with your marriage.

It may be hard to come to grips with the notion that she may not be the right woman for you, or that you may not be the right man for her. IMO, it's better that the two of you figure this out and part (if so be it) on pleasant terms.

If the two of you decide to keep working on things, please do NOT go to the University of Utah or go to a school near family (yours or hers). You'll have a better chance outside Utah where your neighbors will not all be in the cult and where you'll have space between friends, neighbors, and the church.

Although things may suck royally with your home life, you are on the cusp of a fulfilling career and life filled with happiness. Very best wishes to you, Buffalo!



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2018 11:04PM by BYU Boner.

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Posted by: mightybuffalo ( )
Date: January 15, 2018 04:00PM

BYU Boner interesting thoughts on choosing where to go to school. I hadn't really thought of the distance from family thing before. My folks live back in Colorado which, upon acceptance there, we will surely choose since we both want to live there for more than just family purposes. Her folks are there too but moving to utah soon. Honestly, U of U is my last choice.... not only because I have been accepted to higher ranking schools, also because its tuition is INSANE for me (since I'm considered out of state).

I appreciate your post!

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Posted by: knotheadusc ( )
Date: January 07, 2018 02:10AM

Congratulations! Sounds like your future is going to be bright!

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Posted by: Daphne ( )
Date: January 07, 2018 06:28AM

I agree with the advice about keeping a low profile until you have the diploma. I personally know that Medical College of Wisconsin is a fine school and it would be far enough away to give both you and your wife a chance to grow and give her the opportunity to interact meaningfully with non Mormons. I have observed that my TBM relatives have very limited ability to interact with the “outside” world. This is a perfect opportunity to get both of you out of Utah.

Milwaukee has lots of perks as a city, including a good airport. It is easy access to Chicago for some fun outings. I suggest you use some of the remaining months to encourage shared enthusiastic research of a new location for both of you. Ask her what she would like to do and see.

My husband and my daughter are both doctors, so I am well aware of the challenges that medicine as a profession can place on families. You are moving into that world and I imagine she is already scared about being left behind, which will make her cling to LDS certainties even more. Your own anxieties about this time of great change will also muddy the waters. See if you can focus on the aspect of a new adventure being a healthy step for your marriage and invite her to share the adventure with you.

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Posted by: mightybuffalo ( )
Date: January 15, 2018 04:02PM

Daphne thanks for those words. Very calming and insightful. That is a great optimistic perspective to have moving forward. I can honestly say we look at the choice as just that, a chance for a new adventure! Hopefully one we are equally excited about. We shall see come april after my graduation....

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Posted by: incognitotoday ( )
Date: January 07, 2018 08:49AM

Think of it this way: Going to med school (which may be 4, 8, or 12 years) will require MUCH self-discipline. Think of now as a training ground for that and hold off until you graduate. It will go by fast. Really. Christmas is already 3 weeks in distant memory. Valentines is a little over a month away. After that another month will give you the ‘ides of March.’ Couple more weeks is Easter. Then, a few more weeks and you’re done. Wait. You can hang by your tata’s for that long. Watch, ‘A Man called Horse’ for inspiration.

Wait.

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Posted by: Backseater ( )
Date: January 07, 2018 01:00PM

Congratulations on acceptance to med school and my sincere best wishes; but based on my own medical school experiences--now over 30 years ago--as posted in several older threads here, let me suggest that you (a) batten down the hatches and prepare for an absolute tsunami of highly complex information roaring at you; and (b) formulate a plan b, just in case it doesn't work out.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1247461,1247581#msg-1247581

And remember the fundamental equation of medical school:

C = MD.

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Posted by: Gone girl ( )
Date: January 07, 2018 07:17PM

Look up a guy named Tim Jindra. He practices in the Orem area. My husband has been getting some counseling about some personal issues, not for marriage. However he does marriage counseling and I have also met with him on occasion. I believe he used to be mormon but is no longer. Great guy. My husband wasn’t interested in the counseling path, but says it has been far more helpful than he could have imagined. He also thinks it’s because he feels very comfortable with Tim and never judged. He likens it to talking to a good friend that gives him great advice.

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Posted by: robinsaintcloud ( )
Date: January 08, 2018 03:11PM

Mountain Peaks Counseling in Provo, a branch of Wasatch Mental Health, accepts a number of insurances and self pay, has some LDS therapists as well as an ex-mo therapist (me).

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Posted by: janis ( )
Date: January 08, 2018 04:39PM

If you can, put off counseling until after graduation. You have too much going on right now is a good excuse for that. Until you have those transcripts in your hot little hand, do not do anything life changing. Being in the process of your marriage falling apart due to lack of mormonism would be a very bad thing for you between now and April.

Most certainly don't talk to anyone, especially a bishop or mormon counselor. That's like throwing your degree away. Sit tight.

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Posted by: You don't know me ( )
Date: January 08, 2018 04:45PM

A few suggestions:

1. SHUT UP. Say nothing, to anyone, until you have that degree. Really, it's that important.

2. Go to the cheapest school you get into. Unless you "can't" join up. In which case, go to the second cheapest school you get into. Med school debt is no joke.

3. Prepare for the very real possibility that your marriage is done. There isn't room for 3 entities in your relationship anymore. The Church has got to go. She will probably (based on all situations; not based on your situation) not accept that. It simply isn't what she signed up for.

4. SHUT UP. Say noting, until you have that degree!

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Posted by: Free Man ( )
Date: January 08, 2018 10:41PM

Once again, the scam of marriage is exposed.

We promise to love each other, but turns out there are a variety of conditions attached. In other words, we married what we wanted from the person, not the person.

It is about getting money, status, sex, labor, protection, etc, etc.

With you gone, your wife can get another guy - just like switching jobs.

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Posted by: chipace ( )
Date: January 09, 2018 12:46AM

I completely agree. If you want to significantly increase the odds of having a happy marriage... marry a spouse with school done and a professional career... and watch her give it all away to have as many kids as you will let her. She will treat you as her property and spend much more extravigently than she ever did when she was single. She will live better in the present, better than you ever will in retirement. She gave you 3 great years and rest will be crap. Leave before the end of the first 3 (with no kids).
There are 2 kinds of married men, those who look like hell, and the others that lie and try to hide it.

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Posted by: knotheadusc ( )
Date: January 17, 2018 07:12AM

Wow... that is a really sad outlook. I hope my husband doesn't feel that way about me.

But then, we don't have any kids.

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Posted by: iflewover ( )
Date: January 17, 2018 03:46AM

First, awesome achievement and congratulations all around on med school!
I feel bad for you son on the marriage front, but you've received some sound advice from others here on that issue.

As a retired Air Force officer, I can tell you the Uniformed school is hands down the way to go. I'm very biased of course, but you will walk away with your MD, residencies lined up, zero debt, and you are well paid the entire time there. With free health care benefits! It really is a no-brainer. You will kick yourself I guarantee if you decide otherwise. Really think about it. Interest never sleeps.

Plus, getting away from family influences will help your wife understand what she wants. She has too many voices in her head right now. I too married young and moving far away for a few years made us rely on one another like nothing else could.

Best wishes and best of luck!

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Posted by: mightybuffalo ( )
Date: January 17, 2018 12:17PM

iflewover,

thanks for that info! USUHS is EXTREMELY appealing for those reasons. I'm interested most in surgery and I'm a little nervous that my top-choice residency may not be available when the time comes. Also, its good pay, but for 7 years I'd still be making a lot less than a surgeon outside of the military-- I will have been able to pay off any debts and get further ahead financially I imagine.... BUT, I'm also from a family of Air Force service and patriotism calls me!

Big decisions...

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Posted by: Anon33 ( )
Date: January 18, 2018 06:39AM

I heartily endorse the good things said upthread about Medical College of WI. However, I have a relative who is a nurse anesthetist, went to one of the top ten nurse anesthetist programs in the country, and told me "they" envy "their" colleagues who went to military anesthesia programs, because that training was superior. So glad you have multiple options - keep us updated!

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Posted by: readwrite ( )
Date: January 18, 2018 03:21AM

I haven't followed This Thread lately or spun anything of it but I just wanted to say that sounds great - and after a few weeks have passed how are things?

All Aboard!

Have a peaceful trek-



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2018 03:31AM by readwrite.

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Posted by: mightybuffalo ( )
Date: January 18, 2018 03:16PM

readwrite,

It's gone as good as it can, I guess! Still not any real release of my feelings to anyone but a brother and sister of mine that left the church a while ago. Patiently waiting my graduation.

Having fun though! Rugby is going well, wifey and I are exploring Utah- hitting some hot springs today. Our dog keeps us entertained the rest of the time! Just hoping CU gives me an acceptance soon so we can make a final decision about med school.

Thanks for taking interest!

buffalo

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Posted by: nbhabrlrcr ( )
Date: January 18, 2018 06:28PM

I know of a good counselor that used to be LDS and has left the church and I know he can play both sides well. Located in AF. Admins, if the OP is interested, you can give my email! :)

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