Bye 2017...

I just hope reason and reality can keep their heads above water!

As for prospering, and actually taking the lead...? Not a chance. At least that's how I see it.

I think the best we can hope for is colliding with a giant asteroid that vaporizes the whole planet. Hurry, please!

What a terrible end for a giant asteroid!!!

I guess I am injecting a bit of politics here. I had breakfast last week with an evangelical. He commented he will never vote for a Democrat because they support abortion. If we were living in Alabama he would of voted for Roy Moore. Sigh.... This is a well educated individual. I am not overly optimistic.

Ditto that.

Meanwhile, Roy Moore won't admit he lost. He is asking his supporters for more money to fight for righteousness (aka abortion and gay issues) and to contest the election results. And They Will Pay. And he will pocket the money as he has done before.

People are so hung up on the abortion thing that they are unable to see anything else.

PS. Abortion for many democrats is about the choice to work out the situation without the government dictating how women use their reproductive organs. You know, like not wanting the government to ban guns. I would never want to have an abortion. It would not be a flippant form of birth control. If they really didn't want abortions, they would make birth control and sex education free and accessible to all. I don't see why people don't realize the issue is really about defining what women can do.

I am not hopeful for the future of reason and reality, at least not if education continues to be invaded by religion and authoritarian trends continue.

I don't think people should be that hopeful that Alabama electing a democrat is a sign of change. It's simply that they had a crazy republican running. Even Alabama republicans could see that electing Moore would hurt businesses and good talent they are trying to lure into the state. Funny how money wins out over abortion concerns when push comes to shove.

I don't think the damage we are seeing to education, environment, civil rights, wealth disparity, etc. will be corrected for a generation or longer. I have read enough history to recognize humans never learn a darn thing.

While I agree with you about the South (I'll explain why in a moment), I think that reason and logic do have a fighting chance in 2018 and beyond. This is because the U.S. is about evenly split between conservatives and liberals, and most people are not all in with either camp. I think that watching what happens during the midterms will give us a good clue as to where we are headed in the near term.

Now about the South. My mother's late younger brother moved to Georgia from California about two decades and a half ago so he could keep his management position with a major defense contractor. On their first visit with the rest of the family since their move, both stated that in the South, everybody, particularly Caucasians, was still fighting the Civil War, and they were determined to win it politically, even if they had not won on the battlefield.

Both initially had a hard time making close friends with other members of their class there until they became supportive of what these people wanted (much like what happens in Utah with non-Mormons trying to gain acceptance from some accounts I've read here and elsewhere). Until the matter of how African-americans and other minorities are to be treated is finally settled, I think you will see a very resistant South to whatever progressive change may be afoot.

You're never going to get the Evangelical Christians, aka fundamentalist zealots.

If that's you're measure for success you can only be disappointed.

However, you don't need the Evangelical Christians to profoundly shift the political trajectory of this country. Not even close.

Eric K Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess I am injecting a bit of politics here. I
> had breakfast last week with an evangelical. He
> commented he will never vote for a Democrat
> because they support abortion. If we were living
> in Alabama he would of voted for Roy Moore.
> Sigh.... This is a well educated individual. I
> am not overly optimistic.

While the extreme partisans among us will insist, "Your vote for [Candidate X] shows you enthusiastically endorse [the worst evils suspected of Candidate X]," holding our nose to vote for the lesser of two evils is a very American thing to do. In real life, you find an accused pedophile a greater evil than a candidate who will work to support abortion. I'm not sure you're able to understand why any reasonable person would disagree with you. Perhaps you believe no reasonable person would.

If you're interested, here's a thread on Twitter I saw a few days ago that explains one man's journey from pro-choice to pro-life in a series of tweets.
https://twitter.com/NaughtyDerek/status/944043313010827266

The science of the matter is sufficient reason for concern with many pro-lifers. This is not a simple clump of cells. It's nascent human life in its most fragile and vulnerable form. From the moment of conception, it has its own unique DNA. In a civil society that claims the most vulnerable among us deserve protection a basic human right, easy abortion (which is overwhelmingly used as another form of birth control for the convenience of the mother) is a glaring inconsistency. Dismissing your Evangelical friend as somehow unenlightened for his position rings a bit like, "if you oppose slavery, don't own one."

And there's no need to inject religion in this discussion either. On a purely secular, ethical, and scientific foundation, it's difficult to support an abortion-at-any-time-for-any-reason position.
http://www.prolifehumanists.org/secular-case-against-abortion/

I have no reason to think that reason and reality won't be dominant drivers in my personal life and purposes. And I think that anyone who wishes to take that away from me, by means of a giant asteroid or any other, might be unreasonably hateful.

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&channel=iphone_bm&biw=361&bih=539&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=_JU-Ws32Fcbf0gK-gbu4Dw&q=tis+the+season+for+reason+atheist+&oq=tis+the+season+for+reason+atheist+&gs_l=mobile-gws-img.12...107162.123253.0.125163.17.14.3.0.0.0.230.2143.0j11j3.14.0....0...1c.1.64.mobile-gws-img..1.4.681...30i10k1.0.fyd1wMghNNY#imgrc=qphX07hUcNo0xM:&isa=y

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https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&channel=iphone_bm&biw=361&bih=539&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=_JU-Ws32Fcbf0gK-gbu4Dw&q=tis+the+season+for+reason+atheist+&oq=tis+the+season+for+reason+atheist+&gs_l=mobile-gws-img.12...107162.123253.0.125163.17.14.3.0.0.0.230.2143.0j11j3.14.0....0...1c.1.64.mobile-gws-img..1.4.681...30i10k1.0.fyd1wMghNNY#imgrc=_&isa=y



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2017 09:40PM by steve benson.

Well, that's all true and everything, but I still plan on having fun and going to parties and enjoying time with my family and friends anyway.

Oh, sure, give all us happy people a bad rep!!!

Thanks, Anybody, I have the same wish.

Happy Christmas, Joyeux Noël, Bonnes Fêtes to everyone at RfM

:-D

Tom in Paris



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2017 01:42AM by Soft Machine.

When will you be "Tom in Peru"?

Leaving on Christmas Day...

¡Así es, gata-nip, y le vamos a apreciar aún más que ahorita lo apreciamos, que es bastante!

One day, one day ;-)

Nah, nothing will change, but everything will be the same only different.

And of course, we all think we are the only ones that use reason.

Every year, I become aware of more things I believed in that are BS.

For example, this statement assumes that government is the answer to the following problems. I used to think that also.


"I don't think the damage we are seeing to education, environment, civil rights, wealth disparity, etc. will be corrected for a generation or longer. I have read enough history to recognize humans never learn a darn thing."

If we used reason, we wouldn't worship government.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6uVV2Dcqt0&app=desktop

Every generation thinks they are right and previous generations were clueless.

So, in 50-60 years everyone who is smugly feeling superior to the previous generations will look equally dumb by the future generations of even smarter people.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2017 12:55AM by csuprovograd.

I believe that was my quote.

I don't worship government. I just support trying to keep whoever is getting too much power under control. Be it corporations or government or even religion, we can't let them take over.

I work in an environment where regulators and corporations regularly grapple with each other. I've learned to have a healthy respect for both. If either one gets the upper hand, they WILL take advantage.

In our current environment, I see corporations getting the upper hand. They don't give a sh!t about the things I listed that you quoted.

Corporations are required by law to pursue maximum profit for their shareholders. To this end they must use every available opportunity available to them--legality/morality is no more than an obstacle to their ultimate goal.

The belief that corporations should self-regulate is naive at best and recklessly irresponsible at best. The purpose of government is to protect the weak from the excesses of the powerful.

It is the obligation of government to regulate corporations.

Government is not the enemy of the people, it is the protector of the people. So many are so misinformed (read: brainwashed) if they don't get this.

How does not wanting to live in a world governed by ignorance, superstition, religious fanaticism, falsehood, etc turn into "worship of government?"


Suppose you went back in time to pre-Renaissance Europe during the Middle Ages. You give someone antibiotics for an infection. Your only thanks is to be burned at the stake as witch. You try to explain but they won't listen and tell you that you are an agent of Satan and condemn you to burn. That's a world run by ignorance and superstition.

Life is good in my little slice of paradise. That’s all that matters. Everything else is simply a distraction. The only power I have is whether to catch another half hour of sleep before tending to my ‘flock’ of creatures. Gotta go break some ice so they can get to water right now...