Please help! I don't know how to respond to our famly "Scrooge."

My son's wife does not attend our family parties and activities. My son enjoys us, and he shows up alone, saying his wife is sick or has to work, etc. Later, we find out on Fakebook that she was out drinking or hanging out with her sister. She has a very checkered past, and my son is her 4th husband. She has lived with numerous other men. She gets fired from her jobs, because of her nasty temper and bad attitude. My son had never been married before, never lived with anyone, either.

Everyone is afraid of this daughter-in-law. She is quick to take offense, and in response to someone's innocent words, will suddenly clam up, and stomp out of the room, and not speak to that person for many months. She has gone 6 months, without speaking to me, and for 6 years, then 2 years without speaking to her own mother (who seems to be a nice person, and who has helped her financially). She bullies my son, and is a compulsive gambler. My son is very unhappy. He knows she doesn't love him. My son's friends and his brother think DIL is after my son's money. She got him to add her name as owner of his house. She bullied him into buying her a $65,000 Mercedes, and when she wrecked it (her fault), made him buy another one, only this year's model.

My son and his wife keep pestering me about my Will, and also pestering my other children about it. This is very disturbing to my other children. What do I do about that?

Every year, my son and his wife dictate to the rest of us (10 of us) what time I should have my Christmas family celebration. My other children and grandchildren have their own in-laws and extended family to juggle into the mix, according to all of their schedules. Their families are bigger, so it is simpler for us to accommodate them. My son with the bad wife have no kids, and only her mother and sister.

I have been informed by my son and wife that they are coming over to our house at 10:30 and leave at 12:00 on Christmas morning. In previous years, people have been late, because a baby needed feeding and changing, or they needed to spend extra time with their other grandmother, or they had to drive from Bountiful, etc--very legitimate reasons. My son and wife blow up at these late-comers, and throw the gifts around and say, "Open this. Let's hurry up get this show on the road! We have other shit to do today." My other son wanted to punch their lights out. DIL loves drama.

Usually, she sits in the chair nearest the door, keeps her coat on, scowls, never eats anything with the rest of us, and texts the whole time. Occasionally, she throws out a rude remark: "So Slow Sam built a tower--brilliant--my nephew could build an entire city out of leggos when he was two." "Little Miss Clumsy fell down again, Ha-ha." "Does Horsie-Girl (this is what DIL calls one of my other daughters-in-law) have to go to a family birthday party for their chicken?" She lives to put down other people.

She and my son love to criticize restaurants on a restaurant website. We went out to eat with them, and were shocked at the cruel way my son's wife treated the waitress. My other son sneaked back and gave the waitress extra tip money. It seems like my daughter-in-law hates everybody. My daughter had a new baby, five months ago, and the DIL still has not seen the baby. She never even texted or called to congratulate my daughter, or to see how the baby is getting along. This hurts my daughter's feelings. This DIL and my son live one block away from my daughter and from me. This is not the way a loving family behaves. DIL's family is dysfunctional, and I'm afraid it is rubbing off onto my son, and onto the rest of us, by making us angry and upset--all that negativity!

I wonder if she is trying to split up the family, or at least separate my son from our family support, so she can continue to bully him.

We don't intrude or drop in at their house, because we know we are not welcome. We give them appropriate gifts for their birthdays. We are very careful of what we say and do, to not offend anyone. It is against our principles to gossip and bad-mouth people (I'm doing this to you on RFM anonymously, because it's the last straw, and a cry for help). We didn't even know about DIL's past until recently, because they hid it from us. We have let the DIL's behavior slide, thus allowing her to get away with her rudeness.

Today, the DIL and son declared via text that the brothers and sisters and other adults are NOT allowed to exchange Christmas gifts, and we can't even draw names, either. Only the children will receive gifts. The trouble is, that most of us have finished our Christmas shopping, and have already bought gifts for all the adults. DIL and son always try to get out of giving gifts, yet my son wants to join in and take charge of our Christmas, and play with the kids. My son makes plenty of money, and they give DIL's mother and sister very expensive gifts, like a fancy gas barbecue and a cruise to the Carribean. They gave us each a pair of socks last year, and that was fine with everyone. No complaints.

So--do all of us return the (medium-priced) gifts we have already thoughtfully picked out and purchased for my DIL and son?

So--do we follow their orders to not give EACH OTHER adult gifts, so the son and DIL don't "feel bad" and because they didn't get us anything? We will surely make them angry that we didn't follow their orders.

My other children, and the grandchildren can't get to my house as early as 10:30. As head of my household, I have tried in past Christmasses to set the time at sometime after 12:00, to be more flexible and relaxed, to please the majority, but DIL and son ignored me. DIL and son came at 10:30, regardless, and complained that no one was here yet. After everyone rushed to get here, and we started opening the gifts (they insist on opening them together) DIL stood up, in the middle of what we were doing, and looked at her watch, and announced that it was time for her and my son to leave. My son looked at her in surprise, and said, "We don't have to be anywhere." She blew up at him, made a disgusting spectacle, and packed up all their gifts, and made him leave with her. Everyone was upset.

We don't deserve this for Christmas, or in our life.

I don't want anyone fighting on Christmas. I don't want anyone insulting me and my family members behind our back or to our face. We don't want someone judging and criticizing our Christmas. That's why we are afraid to be confrontational. Confrontation only adds fuel to the fire, and makes DIL more unpleasant.

Also, I'm tired of trying to second-guess my DIL, and sitting all alone, afraid to mention it, and going back over things I might have said, that might have made her angry. Maybe she is in the middle of a 2-year spell of not speaking to me or my daughter, for some specific reason we will never know. Or, is she just being rude in general.... I'm worn out. I have tried everything.

Can our family rise about this dysfunctional DIL? Is there a wise, loving Christmas-spirited response to rude people like this?

Enjoy Xmas without them. They will be there 1 and 1/2 hours. Let them come and go. Then gather with the rest of your family later in day. No need to even include them in the plans. Enjoy

^^^^ This. Just welcome them from 1-:30-12. Tell everyone else to show up around 1. Enjoy the rest of your day. Yes, return the gifts. Or save them until some other gift giving occasion (birthdays?).

Privately, you may want to pull your son aside and let him know that you love him no matter what and if he feels abused or bullied, you will always be there for him. He may be putting up with the abuse because he's ashamed or doesn't want to disappoint you or he thinks he has no other options.

Please tell your DIL to fuck off, ho ho ho!

I like the "fuck off, ho ho ho" approach! Maybe it should have to boil down to cursing the woman out over her awful and cruel behavior. If they don't return, mission accomplished. The DIL is abusing everyone, and good riddance. Your son will eventually get good and sick of her and leave.

My husband's ex wife was a converted Mormon version of your daughter in law. My advice is to have your son visit www.shrink4men.com ASAP and see if his wife's behaviors are familiar based on the information there. If so, she's probably a narcissist and things will probably get worse.

I'm so sorry you're dealing with a person like her. I know firsthand how miserable they are. My husband's ex wife once tried to force me to endure her over Christmas at my own father in law's house. She and her husband stayed with my in-laws, while my husband and I were expected to get a hotel. I said "no way" and stayed home and was much better off for it. Sounds to me like someone really should tell your daughter in law to "fuck off".

I won't say what the psychiatric diagnosis should be. But I agree to study shrink4men.com

Unfortunately this kind of sick personality seems to becoming epidemic. Only way to deal is total no-contact -- anything short of that is a crapshoot and leaves you open to harm, real harm.
My advice is to document misbehavior and abusive behavior in case you have to go to court. Like divorce court or otherwise

I would avoid using the term "victim" to describe your son, though be aware she may be abusing him or worse. The proper term is probably "target." your son is her "target"

Well, I will name it. It sounds like she has a heavy duty case of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. A person like this has to control all the communication. In doing so they split family members apart, so that no one can figure it out.

You are absolutely right. I often think of my husband's ex wife as the axis of a wheel and everyone in her life is a spoke. They all get information filtered through her and don't communicate with each other. When one of the spokes "breaks" by figuring things out, they have to be replaced or repaired.

I would never officially diagnose anyone with a disorder since I'm not qualified to do so. But once you've been around this type of person enough times, you realize what they are. I feel sorry for anyone who is forced to deal with them. My husband went to war with a raging narcissist. When he told me that being with his boss was like being with his ex wife again, I knew things were really bad. I was pissed, too, since they were in a war zone and he was playing mind games with my husband and his co-workers.

This particular guy went back to Iraq a few years later as a brigade commander and was eventually very publicly fired for abusing the troops. Couldn't have happened to a better man.

You are the host. Have your Christmas celebration in the afternoon at a time that is convenient for you and the majority of your guests. Tell your son that if he and his wife wish to come early, fine, but that everyone else is coming at X o'clock. If he or his spouse fuss about it, tell them that there is no need for them to stay -- they can leave early and pick up their presents the next day.

Proceed with your gift exchange as usual. Your son and his wife do not get to dictate to everyone else. Next year you may wish to have a family-wide conversation about it, but that conversation should include everyone.

Quit walking on eggshells around them. I would be totally unconcerned about whether you are offending her or not. Would it really be such a bad thing if she were offended, and stomped off?

I would have some responses ready for her cruel remarks. "I see you brought the sunshine with you today," or, "Aren't you just so precious?" Look her in the eye when you say this, and say it with a smile on your face. This will let her know that you won't be bullied. Then counter the remark, if necessary, with a kind remark to the person who has been verbally attacked, i.e., "Sam, your tower looks great. Aren't you clever? I think we have a budding builder in the family." The person who has been verbally attacked will notice your kindness and support and remember it.

If she flounces off, well then, let her flounce. Unfortunately your son has made a poor choice of spouse. Once she has drained him of all of his resources, she will be out of there and on to husband number five. At that point, he will figure it out.

Yes, this is very good advice. You may have to endure some fireworks, but if it means she stays away, it may be well worth it. If you let these types of people have their way, the abuse will be never ending.

These are all great responses. Essentially, do what you want to do and "go fuck yourself, ho, ho, ho" should be the order of the day.

I would add one thing about the financial situation. First, sonny chose to marry this woman and he chose to put her on the house and to buy her a $65000 Mercedes. That's his stupid sh!t and he's going to have to live with it.

Second, if they ever mentioned my will to me again, I'd simply say "I'm not going to discuss this with you and if you ever bring it up again, I"m cutting you out without a farthing." If he brings it up again I'd say "I don't know why it matters to you, you've been stricken from my will."

You are being bullied. The best thing to do is to confront the bully.

Set the time for the party based on the family.

If your DIL does not want a gift exchange, then don't force them to participate but don't give them gifts either.

Hopefully at some point your son will wake up and get rid of her. Does he know he'd have your support and love if he did? That you wouldn't consider him a failure?

As for the will. Tell them what they want to hear but write what you feel is best. She'll leave you alone and you'll have peace of mind. You'll be dead when she finds the truth, so who cares what she thinks at that point?

Maybe get your son a sit down with good divorce attorney for xmas.

Good luck.

Invite your son. Tell him why she is no longer welcome in your home.

Offer him the support he's going to need to become ex-husband #5.

I don't know how your son puts up with her. He needs to extricate himself and quickly.

Surely there are women he can meet who will treat him better than this, and his family by extension. He deserves better.

She sounds like a vile, bitter, angry person capable of anything. He needs to protect himself from her. She doesn't sound capable of changing.

It's a bizarre story.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2017 02:10PM by Amyjo.

My sister has a lot of the same behaviors of your daughter-in-law but not quite so extreme. She often throws hissy fits when things don't go her way and doesn't talk to me or my mother for weeks or months on end. What she doesn't realize is that we consider it a vacation every time she stomps out and stays away. When she realizes she just cut herself out and we don't care, she crawls back all loving and sweet in order to find out what she's missing. Her favorite subject is my mother's money and we refuse to discuss it with her so she generally stomps off in a huff. My sis also uses Facebook to proclaim how badly she is treated. She gets tons of sympathy from long distance friends who don't know "The Rest of The Story".

Your son knows what he's married to so let him make his own moves. It's his life. You need to detach yourself from their relationship. If your son and his wife are ordering you around you need to stop letting them. Plan your Christmas with your happy family members and you tell your son and his wife when/if you want him to come over. If they don't like their time slot (you could make it in the evening or after everyone else has left) they can lump it. If they choose to shut down and stop seeing you it would be a welcome relief, wouldn't it? Take back your power and let them cut themselves out if they choose.

Also, stop expecting Christmas to be a perfect experience. After your kids grow up they stop being your responsibility. If their lives are messed up you just need to accept and move on.

Your problem is not your DIL, it's you and your son, and you are being manipulated by his maddening choices, which are ongoing.

He is not happy, knows she doesn't love him, but chooses to remain married to this toxic, dysfunctional human being, wasting the life and joy she could have. He has no shame in bringing this ongoing pain and drama into his family's lives, at their expense? I doubt that's true. Enabling and accomodating him so that he can continue to have this never-ending train wreck in his life is doing him no favor. He allows her to desroy his life, and you need to show him how to deal with this toxic mess, one who seems to know no common decency.

When she misbehaves or attempts to dictate, even in a restaurant, ask her to leave. If she won't leave, call the police. You can give your son notice that you are finished tolerating her bad behavior. Tell him that he is always welcome, but how she treats your family borders on criminal, and she's no longer welcome to abuse you and yours.

You are concerned that this is playing into her evil plan to isolate your son, but it is just as if he is an abused wife. He must have his own internal motivation to leave the abuser; you cannot "save" him while he chooses to drink her poison. You are allowing yourself to become enmeshed and controlled by a highly dysfuntional person, in not knowing how to respond.

She behaves like a rebellious teen, but is far more dangerous. Your descriptions leave little room to believe that she is not physically abusive, and cheating on him. I wouldn't be surprised to find that she abuses substances - alcohol and/or drugs, the reason her visits are limited to two hours. Shame will have sealed your son's lips about the subject, and your goal is not to shame him, but to let him know it is no secret.

Talk to your son. Tell him that you won't allow her to be abusive in or control you or the goings on your home or with other family members. Start attending al-anon meetings, and listen to others tell "your" stories. Learn how to disengage. Learn how to re-establish your limits and boudaries. Regain your sanity.

Your internal rule of not disparaging others for the sake of "not gossiping" does not apply to the abusive. You need support, and honesty must reign. You must be honest about not liking her or her behavior. "Love the child abuser but hate the abuse" does not make sense. You have an elephant in the living room, but you don't want to call it an elephant.

Work on yourself to show how its done. Disengage from her madness. Help your son to see freedom in action.

Google - al-anon elephant in the living room" Start reading. Find and go to the meetings.

You are not in control of him, his co-dependence with her, or her addictions. You csn only control yourself and your choices.

Forget Christmas. This is not about Christmas, just one of the next 365 days of the coming year. How do you want to spend them?

Get some courage and do what you know you should. No more talk about the will or cut them out....and if you have more than just a little money, do a Trust. Wills are for little personal incidentals. Learn to say no.

A lot of good advice from everyone here; take it and run with it. She sounds like an emotional vampire; someone who sucks the life's spirit out of everyone around them. If they bring up wills again, let them, especially her, know that you are protective and selective of who is named in the will and who is not. Let her stew in her toxic juices.

PPs have laid it out. Tell your son and DIL that Christmas at your house will be at time X:Xx. Tell them the adults present will be exchanging presents, and if they are uncomfortable with that they need not attend. Let them know they can come by at another time to drop off presents for the children and exchange presents (note I didn’t use the phrase “get presents”) from you and your husband. Then stand back and wait for fireworks. Better fireworks from the bully than showing the rest of your family youcare more about fireworks than their comfort.

There is a new SKI club that is becoming very popular and it has nothing to do with snow. "Spend the Kids Inheritance" (on yourself). It is time to announce to your family that you are joining the SKI club. Bet you rarely see the DIL and son again.

Your son and DIL don't like your family and don't respect your family. If there were no will you wouldn't even be seeing them. They hate coming over, but feel they have to show up in order to stay in the will and get their share. This is a plain as the nose on your face.

Why would the DIL care about the new baby? That doesn't have anything to do with will.

Quit putting worry and effort into the cause. Dil and your son are playing you like a cheap fiddle. They have you right where they want you. They are parasites and you are the host. And don't give your son a break. They are in this together.

The wise loving response you are looking for to fix things is to tell them straight out that their behavior will not be tolerated. There are no magic fixes. Sometimes you have to do the heavy lifting. Takes guts. Maybe a family intervention. Interventions aren't just for drug and alcohol problems you know? But you have to back it up.

Or, you could save this post and repost next year because it will still be applicable.

This will be harsh, but time to tell your son to grow a pair and lawyer up for the upcoming divorce.

Unless he's a major a-hole as well, it seems the only reasons he's still with her is that either the sex is great or he doesn't know any better and she's got his balls in a jar on the mantle.

I can't figure out if this is a tragedy or sit-com material.....

Tell them Christmas is cancelled, tell everyone else they are not coming and have a great time.

I don't know right now what I'm about to type, so sorry in advance if it is harsh, but I genuinely have been in a very similar position with my own family before.

Before his atonement, Spock told us "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few (or the one." You are letting 2 people hold your entire family hostage. Why? Seriously, stop letting dictate things to you. Your Christmas celebration should be at the time that works best for everyone - they don't like it? Tough shit. She gets offended? Sounds like it will only speed up the inevitable divorce, which seems like it will be a blessing.

Quit walking on pins and needles with this overgrown child. I respect that you are trying to keep the peace, but it seems like she is as nasty as she is because no one has ever told her no before. Stand up for your family when they start bringing their nastiness to what should be a happy occasion. If they stop showing up, what have you really lost?

You guys are SERIOUSLY thinking about returning gifts you ALREADY BOUGHT because 2 PEOPLE said so? Sorry for my bluntness, but WHAT THE HELL?! Either give the gifts in secret, or give the gifts, but DON'T YOU DARE LET THEM DICTATE TERMS TO YOU!

Your daughter-in-law in an awful person. She no doubt wants to divorce your son and get his money. Unfortunately (and I really do apologize for what I'm about to say), you son sounds like a spineless tool who will do whatever he can to keep this cancer in his life. She brings your family celebration down and sounds like she has molded your son into her own image.

You love your son, as you should. However, if they stopped showing up for your Christmas celebrations, will that really be the end of the world? If you want to get this toxic energy out of your life, you will have to confront them and let them know how it is going to be if they want to keep showing up. If they leave, it will hurt, but it will be pleasant for everyone else in your family.

I drafted a text response for you to send them while I waited for my sandwich to get delivered...

"Hi (son) and (disgusting, toxic mess),

There has been some confusion about Christmas in the past, but I just wanted to send this text to clarify things moving forward. Our Christmas celebrations will be at X:XX AM/PM - no negotiations. If you can't make it, please feel free to stop by when you are able to pick up your presents, but this is the time that works best for everyone else. Since you only show up for about an hour and a half anyway, you can see why we shouldn't plan everyone else's lives around you. The adults have already bought presents to exchange. You do not have to participate if you don't want to, but don't force your wishes on everyone else. Finally, in the past we have tolerated rude and disrespectful comments towards us and other members of the family. This ends immediately. If you can't act like a respectful adult one day a year, please do not come. We love you both, but we are tired of you bullying the rest of the family on what should be a special day.

Scrooge's MIL"

Feel free to tweak it, but if your response to them doesn't follow the general spirit of the message above, then you only have yourself to blame for any troubles and drama that follow. Again, I am so sorry for being harsh to you, but you have to realize that she is a bully and it is bringing the rest of your family down. Please keep us posted.

This is an excellent letter, sparty, as was your first post.

I strongly suggest the OP uses it to rip the band aid right off. But, OP, do not tweak it. You will start watering it down. Guaranteed. This is a situation where you have to come out swinging.

Look at the gifts they give DIL's parents versus your socks. They already have treated you like shit. They have made it clear how they feel about you. And they want to dictate your Christmas to their liking? You have nothing to lose but two spoiled intolerable toxic brats.

Don't let your grandchildren see you taking the bullying.

I read the original post again and got more angry with the bits I missed on the first read. OP, I'm not angry about your DIL - she is a miserable, toxic person, but she is being enabled - I am angry at you bending over backwards. Each paragraph seemed to highlight a different time she was allowed to ruin a day for everyone else in the family.

You are bending over backwards for a person who absolutely does not like you or the rest of your family. You are subjecting the rest of your family to a toxic, unpleasant environment. You are letting her bully other members of your family, completely unchecked. You are showing younger members of your family the wrong way to deal with a bully. You deserve better, but if you don't care about sticking up for yourself, STICK UP FOR YOUR FAMILY. WHY DO YOU HONESTLY CARE ABOUT MAKING HER ANGRY?! SHE IS ALWAYS ANGRY! WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!

As the head of the family, you owe it to the rest of your children and their families to be strong. How many more Christmases will she be allowed to ruin, do you think, before your other children slowly start to go their separate ways and celebrate Christmas on their own instead? You said it best yourself - you don't want anyone being mean to you or saying things behind your back. Unfortunately, I have to be the bearer of bad news: SHE IS ALREADY DOING BOTH!!!!!!! Worse yet, she is openly disrespecting innocent family members. Is this son your favorite, or something? Does someone in the family owe him a life-debt? Does he make a killer bean dip? If no to all of the above, why is this horrible behavior still allowed in your home?

I genuinely care about you and your family, OP. I have had no shortage of bullies in my life, and I can tell you that there is no solution that will keep everyone happy and make her come around to how great everyone is. She doesn't like you. She doesn't like your family. She seems to dislike your son. These are the facts - walking on eggshells clearly didn't work. If you don't want to stick up for yourself and your family, then at least tell your other kids to celebrate amongst themselves to avoid the toxicity of your son and his horrible wife and just have an hour and a half Christmas party for them. Your family seems genuinely great - they don't deserve that on Christmas.

Quit taking orders from 2 children. You are the head of the family. It is your home. If they want to be a part of your celebrations, they need to start following the rules. This is a horrible situation, but your DIL's behavior isn't the most discouraging.

Stay away from her and keep out of your will. Keep her away from any money that she does not earn. She is dangerous and bad

The Will. Tell them that because they are the only ones who ask about it, they aren't in it. Also, I strongly recommend a Trust rather than a will.

Why doesn't anyone confront the behavior. "That is not acceptable.” “If you are going to continue to act that way, you need to leave.” “That is no way to treat another person (with regard to the waitress).”

Your son will likely divorce her, or she will divorce him after she has drained him dry. If he didn't have the money for the second Mercedes, that might have been enough.

You don't want to preserve the relationship with her, so why bother. After her previous behavior, I would actually be tempted to contact the son and tell him that his wife isn't welcome in your home.

You have all these nice people making sacrifices in order to maintain a relationship with a person that none of them likes. The daughter in law may be a monster, but she isn't really the one acting crazy here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2017 12:32PM by nevermojohn.

This is YOUR home. You choose what time you would like to have your get together. If you want to exchange gifts, they need not be included. Put your foot down. Let your DIL her behavior is unacceptable!!

Let them come and go at their prescribed time and after they leave, do what YOU and your family please regarding gifts, etc.

Just remember: Your house, your rules.

If they come to your Christmas party they are guests, and should conduct themselves accordingly.

She doesn't get to dictate terms of anything until she hosts her own gatherings.

If she doesn't like it, she doesn't have to come.

You aren't protecting son by going along to get along. He will be forced to make an ultimatum; his family or her.

That's going to be up to him. You've done your part. I doubt he wants to be with her either. How can he love *that?*

If he wants to be dominated by her for the rest of his life, that's his choice. Let's hope he has more sense than that.

I feel sorry for your son that he lacks the cojones to stand up to her. He will, give him time. If she doesn't beat him down first.

It will be better for him to cut his losses than get further ensnared in her lair by getting out of their sick relationship.

I lived with a spouse with narcissistic personality disorder for many years. You cannot control anyone but yourself. This includes your son. That self-control means you have the responsibility to yourself to maintain healthy boundaries. Do not allow yourself to walk on eggshells. Do not allow anyone in your presence to ridicule anyone (especially a child) without speaking up. Do this calmly always but without an ounce of boundary wiggle-room. Clearly and concisely explain your boundaries and the consequences for invading them. Then, without malice but with absolutely firmness and authority, follow through with the consequence. Will she have a screaming meemy hissy fit? Not talk to you? Turn your son against you, or try? Probably. But, she's holding you hostage and you can't allow it. It's not loving to yourself and family or even her. The most loving thing you can do for your son is to show him how to quietly demand respect in order to be included in your life and celebrations. Show your son how to draw healthy boundaries, even if he has to learn the hard way for awhile.

So, I read all the comments and I agree with plenty of them. If your son and DIL mention the will again, warn them that the next time they do, the two will be removed. If she is persistent about it, remove them. The fact they inquire about it constantly should have given you red flags. It is all they care about, or at least the DIL. She doesn't give two shits about your family and wants the money for her family and herself. Do not let her bully anyone anyanymore.

I do suggest telling son and DIL the party for them is X:Xx and if they ask when everyone else is coming, tell them "at a later time" and leave it at that. Tell them you already bought gifts and plan to exchange, but since they aren't interested DO NOT give them their presents. Your house, your rules. If they ask where their presents are from the adults of the family, counter by asking them where yours is. If they didn't bring any, tell them tough love.

I have seen this with PLENTY of my extended family members - so much so my mother cut them off from my family completely. YOU DO NOT NEED THAT NEGATIVITY AND BITCHINESS.

I am not surprised at DIL's rudness to others, no matter how disgraceful it is. People who tend to act like this are narcissistic and hate themselves.

You love your son, but HE married this lady. Either he will realize what a parasite she is and divorce, or she will once all his money is hers. The fact he added her to the house means she just wants material possessions. I am sorry you had no idea about her cheating and other marriages. She sounds aweful.

Please OP, keeping the peace is not an option - not without serious consequences to your family. The kids will hate her, grow angry and will direct said anger at you, too, for putting up with it - and I speak from experience.

I agree with a commenter on here, for it has helped me quite a bit. When DIL says something snarky, reply with "oh, well you are just rainbows and sunshine today" then say something sweet to your kid she messed with. "What a good tower you built Sam! I like it." He will know you are on their side. Remember, SILENCE ONLY CONFIRMS THE INSULT.

It will make her mad but should shut her up. If she continues to be a bitch, keep doing that and warn her once she steps out of bounds she has to leave. Make a commitment on ALL OF THIS. Do not back down and become sweet and relaxed. With people like this, you need to kill them with the fact that thier shit isn't going to fly.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2017 05:18PM by lazylizard.

Why in hell would you follow their orders? why are you even asking? Why did your other son feel the need to "sneak" back to give the mistreated waitress extra money? Why not just say, "I'm going to give the waitress a larger-than-is-customary tip because of the treatment she received from you?"

You are all enabling this woman. Unless your son is being secretly abused, which is a possibility, he is also part of the problem. And even if he is also a victim, unless he is suffering from severe Stockholm Syndrome, he is guilty of enabling her actions. Either way, he is somewhat guilty.

I agree with Lazylizard that if the woman puts anyone else down, the rest of you should join forces to stand up for the maligned person. My kids are still practically babies so I haven't experienced the in-law thing as a parent, but when I do, I will not tolerate what you are tolerating. i love my kids, but if one of them chooses to marry someone who sounds functions as a sociopath, that person won't be welcome on my turf if he or she cannot conduct himself or herself with at least the most basic respect for others.

Set your time and your own customs for holidays. This couple can attend and participate, or not. It sounds as though the marriage has lasted for several years already. I don't know what is keeping your son with such a person. You may wish to talk with him privately about it, which probably isn't an easy thing to do. Unless your son is of diminished capacity or unless she is somehow abusing him or is holding some sort of threat over his head, he, too, is a guilty party in the extreme rudeness.

Regarding the will, I would write them out of it for the present and let them know that such is the case. I would not want to be worth more dead than alive to this woman, and it sounds as though her husband is a total pushover. As crazy as it sounds, she could conceivably tell him to pour arsenic in your drink, and he just might do it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2017 05:36PM by scmd.

Sounds like son needs to grow a pair or find a good divorce lawyer .Can this guy be anywhere close to happy in this "marriage"?

Some people are afraid to be alone. That's scarier to them than being in bad company.

"Please OP, keeping the peace is not an option - not without serious consequences to your family. The kids will hate her, grow angry and will direct said anger at you, too, for putting up with it - and I speak from experience."

I also agree that this is a problem you have created by putting up with it. If you let the puppy piddle on the rug (let alone REWARD IT) why on Earth would the puppy stop piddling on the rug? It's working for her! I am sure she is laughing her ass off at all of you. Great topic to sit and laugh with her sister about. "Gee, I really told them how Christmas is going to run this year! Ha Ha Ha! It is so fun to watch them jump through hoops! And they sure did love those socks ;)" Treat her like an untrained puppy. When she steps out of line, correct the problem right that second. Be firm about it. Be CONSISTENT. You teach people how to treat you and you have TAUGHT her this is OK. Time to put your foot down. Right on the back of her neck. And for hell sakes, have this discussion with your other kids. THEY need to do the same. HEY! Toxic Bitch! We don't speak to people like that in this house PERIOD. I have had to do this in my own house with Hubby's extended family. Told two of them to get out of my house and take it out to the street - a different one than mine. Never had another problem. BTW, one's mother was there and the others mother in law and neither did a damn thing. My house - I did. Didn't even wait for Hubby, I got in between the two of them and drew the line. As she acts up in public too, DON'T GO OUT WITH HER. Sorry Son, we just have no intention of going out in public with your wife because of the way she behaves. We would love to go with just you, give us a call anytime :) Discuss your decision with the other kids and let them make their own decision but they need to know YOU are done putting up with her crap. I would bet they do because YOU do. Why else sneak back and leave an extra tip? Growed ass adults don't SNEAK. They don't think they are allowed to call her out even when she is insulting their own children. That is a big problem in my book.

Save their gifts for their Birthdays and if they were expensive I would return them - for a couple of pairs of socks. They are not exchanging, so why would anyone give them anything? Let them come when they want and leave when they want and the rest of you do what works best for YOU. You don't let the most screwed up person in a group control the group. Ever. As to money, you all need to get on the same page. Discussing it with the other kids is tacky beyond the pale. DON'T PUT UP WITH IT! The kids need to say it is none of their business what YOU do with YOUR money (and that is the truth). If Son and Toxic Bitch ask, tell HIM he is not in the will and she never was or will be. You don't want her hanging on to the thought of any more money down the pike. Once she sucks him dry you don't want her holding on to him just to get your money too. Time for that carrot to go. You can't control what your son does with his money but you sure as hell control yours. Do get your will in order and consider giving things you want people to have before you go. My Great Aunts did this and it saved a lot of bickering. You got what you got and you were damn happy to have it and what anyone else got is NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS. My in-laws made all their funeral arrangements and paid for them in advance and I can't tell you what a huge help that was to everyone. We intend to do the same.

And I just must ask OP, how do you know what gifts they get her family? I can't imagine that conversation. Gee, we bought (expensive stuff) for X and Y and we hope you like your socks? And how do you bring up a will to someone standing there in front of you? Or your sibs? Gee, Mom and Dad have?????$ (how would they know) and do you know how big our cut is? Hell, at least my greedy, grasping family waits till someone has actually died!

Time to stand up for yourselves, your kids and your grandkids and stop rewarding bad behavior.

I agree completely.If you want this behavior to stop, you need to address it directly and forcefully NOW.

I'll add my two cents--this isn't about Christmas, presents, or wills--it's about power and control. Right now, your DIL has all the power and is controlling everything. As others have noted, you have a variety of options, however, whatever you do will bandaid the situation until another holiday or get together unless you seize the power and control the situation. Here are a couple of ideas:

1. Inform the family that you are doing an open house Christmas between the hours of X and Y. Invite all to participate with the following types of gifts (whatever you decide).

2. After Christmas, you need to have a talk with your son. In your first paragraph he seems polite and easy-going. Then he morphs into a difficult person. You're his Mom. You are the parent, tell him about his behaviors and let him know that he will be expected to (what you decide). Let him know that his wife is a part of the family but is making others uncomfortable with these behaviors (describe what you wrote above).

3. After Christmas, inform all family members that you and your husband will be involved with legal family planning and that with your lawyer you two will decide how your estate will be handled in the future. Let them know that your decision will be final and that attempts to influence or bully the outcome will result in being excluded from the inheritance.

4. Stay out of your son's marriage. He married her, their marriage is between the two of them EXCEPT when invited to your home.

HUGS!

In your house, you set the time. Not because it is convenient for everyone else - because it is convenient for YOU. You host, you call the shots. Sample:

"We're getting together at 1pm because that is when I said. End of story."

(Notice there isn't even a "come or don't" attached here. Just the declaration of the time. Adding anything else makes it seem like it is up for negotiation or argument. It isn't.)

Your will is no one else's business. Not even your other kids. They'll find out what's in it when you die. Sample:

"So, what's in your will"
"That is none of your business."

(Again, notice there isn't a lot of conversation here. That's because it's a statement, not a conversation.)

She's an ass to family members? Sample:

"Your lego tower stinks!"

"That will be the last time you will insult anyone here. Period".

(This is followed by you walking to the door, holding her coat and her handbag for her, and opening the door. Again, no conversation)

The key to all of this is state your rules with absolute authority, and DO NOT DISCUSS OR EXPLAIN. TO ANYONE, INCLUDING THE OTHER KIDS. The others will get it. The son and the witch will try to lure others in to an argument. Can't control them, but DO NOT ENGAGE ANY FURTHER. She will get the idea real quick.

DIL reminds me of my own family. Shameful behavior is considered normal.

I am so sorry this is happening to you. I wonder if Mormonism makes folk imagine a celestial family & makes families more "lock step" within the Mormon influenced community (because of this intrinsic expectation.)

This reminds me of a sibling who was born dependent on drugs as an infant. Their complete immersion in drugs and all things inibrients generated the kinds of scene you are describing to us. A dearly loved precious family member out of their mind seeking drug money again oops took grandma's silver (mama finds out Christmas morning) big scene at the Christmas table.

Home home on the range- this is an American ballad. I do not know which person in the couple is utilizing drugs, but their incomprehensible conduct communicates something somewhat suggesting someone somewhere nearby in the dynamic in the room is using.

I don't want you to take this wrong. There is a cunning behavior in which a substance user scopes their environment and attempts to redirect others resources to source themselves. The habit could be prescription rx or illegal but none the less the havoc gained remains the same. And that's pretty much what you're describing.

Whose the user. Great question. It would take um alanon vocabulary or family systems vocabulary to begin breaking down who is doing what to whom and how and who are you in the system and why and how are you letting them (whoever they are) heck hassel with you. and where is the rest of the family when this occurred.

And did anyone ever do this before or is this the first time, the very first time this has ever happened in your family? or did they act this way when they were doing homework (or at the dinner table when they were together in the first grade) or Saturday mornings when they were watching tv? How is this person participating manifesting some orchestrated dischord in your family symphony?

how is it possible that only an outsider could introduce a chord of melancholy or is it the one they are with? why can't you demand respect or expect folks who are rude to leave you the heck alone? What is going on?

is it the son? or is it gas lighting by a sibling agitating the son who then cues the wife? or is it a step parent- who stepped on a cats tail then set off a less favorite child to complain or tell a joke another person probably the brother has always hated who groans and when he groans- then, someone else---

like dominoes. gift: figure out your system

hope you get what you need here to stop allowing someone else to be rude, and learn statements or ways of holding back the tide when others complain or push back to you asserting your need to eat without heck breaking out in your own home. Best art work love recreation fun and weather to you in the upcoming year while you either figure this out or just hold the line.

oh it is extremely excruciating - to have someone wreck our family collaboration our vision our dream-- of celestrial holiness singers rock bands playing ice carvings - whatever held over vestige of i'm going to heaven and I have a celestial family stuck on from early Mormon training keeps wrecking havoc and grief especially when some one is jerking our chain or being a jerk and jerking everyone around (really, this happens a lot in substance abuse people coming down off drugs are pushy about money, pushy, want things, pushy pushy just animal like focus and predatory.) melancholy music like "I have a family here on earth they are so good to me" or "love at home" just belays the lie or belies what lay ahead of me were I to to go eat at _____ house. LOL ok its not funny. But the Mormon preset on expectation makes one more vulnerable to this being painful.

peace

You sound like a loving and caring person and I am sorry if my post is harsh, but after reading your post, I really feel that the problem is YOU. You have allowed control of your home to be given to this horrible DIL by tolerating her behavior, trying to appease her and your son to keep the peace. It will not work. These type of people thrive on drama and causing problems, even as they convince themselves that they are innocent.

YOU need to take back the control. This is your home and you are still the parent even though your kids are grown. Tell everyone, including the horrible DIL and son, the time to arrive. Presents will be exchanged because you have already prepared to do this. Then, before Christmas Day, I highly recommend that you take your son aside alone, by text or email or phone, and let him know that his wife's behavior will no longer be tolerated. You love your son, but he is a grown man who allows his family to be abused. You will need to be prepared for the storms that will follow as your son and DIL realize that they can no longer call the shots. If your DIL acts up, don't sit silently. Calmly tell her that this is your house, and she is being rude. If she blows up, tell her to leave. You cannot avoid the storms she will cause, but you can protect the rest of your family.

And be prepared when your son comes back to you after she decides he is no longer good enough for her. He will need your support.

And this has happened too many times in my family. Just today this happened: All my kids are grown and they come and go on Christmas Day as their schedule permits. My niece called and asked to bring her friend, who is a nice lady but loud. She is also absolutely alone, no family and very few friends. No one invited her to spend Christmas with them, so she is alone. I said yes, bring your friend. She had spent Christmas with us two years ago so she knows us. My oldest son can't stand this lady. He said, Well, I guess I won't stay long. I told my son, Look, I love you, but this lady is all alone and one day a year is not too much to ask for us to let my niece bring her friend. My son then said, Well, your house, your rules. And this is my advice to you: Your house. Your rules.

My moniker is misleading, because I'm no longer afraid of Mormons, once I stood up to them. I did whatever it took to protect my children from Mormon abuse, and to stand up for my principles. It seems like a good parent is constantly fighting to keep the family together--so many forces try to pull families apart.

This DIL of yours is one of those forces.

My brother married a woman like your DIL, and she brought unhappiness to a rather laid-back, fun, active family. She constantly criticized me and my other siblings, and bad-mouthed us to our brother, so he would eventually lose respect for us. My parents were wonderful, loving, and generous, but she found something to criticize about them: they didn't go to the temple often enough, and sometimes we would play sports on Sundays.

Sorry to say, that this type of narcissistic (yes, your DIL is a narcissist) behavior is just the tip of the iceberg. My phony, sicky-sweet-with-flattery, but nasty-manipulative-greedy-physically abusive sister-in-law changed my brother's behavior. When my father was dying of cancer, they came and looted my parents' house, and even took the painting off the wall, above his sickbed! They took Mother's jewelry, the silver, the other paintings (one was worth 35,000). She and my brother had us fooled, as we just thought they were "obnoxious and greedy" but harmless. At the end, my mother told me that she felt they were just waiting for her to die--and that is so very sad! Poor Mother!

I had to be forceful with my TBM SIL. It was hard, because I'm rather meek, and she was the RS president and a performing soprano, who sang with a local amateur opera company, and she dominated every room she entered! At my house, she went off on one of her screaming tirades, aimed at my mother, and my brother and I escorted her out the door. She never did that again, in my house, but I could hear her screaming at my brother sometimes when I went to her house. After she died, her son followed in her footsteps, and grifted money from my father and uncles, for a bogus "software development business" he was going to start up. There was never any evidence of any business at all. His whole life was lies. He made our bachelor uncle change his will two days before he died, leaving everything to the nephew, and nothing to his other nephews and nieces, who were closer to him, and even took care of him. I can't imagine bullying a dying person like that. I wouldn't put my nephew past poisoning someone.

It might be tough for you to accept, OP, that YOU might be the cause of some of this problem, but the GOOD NEWS is, that you can do something about it. No, you will never change a narcissist. Don't waste your energy trying to explain or help your DIL. Focus on standing up for the rest of the family members. Call her on her BS, within seconds. Smile when you say it.

If the worst thing she can do is walk out...if the worst thing she can do is divorce your son and take half his money and all his house...what price is happiness? (Like my SIL, this DIL already has taken away his house, because he has probably mortgaged it away, until there is no equity left, anyway.)

About addiction, Paintinginthewin. Gambling can be an addiction, just like drugs. My SIL was addicted to Vicodin, which she and my brother kept hidden, for many years, until she accidentally told me about it.

You mentioned her dysfunctional family. In my experience, people like this have parents and grandparents like this. My SIL came from a long line of con-artists, and knew the ins and outs of MLM's and other "get-rich-quick" schemes.

Their main obsession is MONEY. You need to cut her off completely, and your son, as well. If he divorces her, you can re-write things. The poster who said your son will come back to you and the family, is right.

You should not have to drive an older car, and save up your retirement, and forego the pleasures in life, just so your DIL can squander some of it away later, on expensive cars and gambling and making everyone miserable. It's not fair!

It's not fair to your other children! Don't put them in a position where they will fall victim to her bullying.

She will hate you and your family anyway, no matter what you do. I don't give a damn about her--I care about your family.

Such incredible advice from so many thoughtful and caring people!

My only suggestion is to take the best pieces of the advice given, and write a letter to your son and daughter-in-law about what you have decided about their behavior/conduct, and how you EXPECT them to behave or forget Christmas with your family.

Remember YOUR boundaries and PLACE THEM.

I hope your son divorces this woman before she destroys his mind and his life. Laying it out for them will help this along.

The best to you!

As someone who was married to a bully, I support the comments you've already received. For years my family endured his bullying, arrogant, demanding behavior. They did it for my sake. Once someone called him on it, I started to realize just what a bully he was and began to demand changes in how I was being treated. It gave me permission to recognize the problem was not me.