In a now-closed thread, RfM poster "Phazer" indicted excommunicated Mormon historian D. Michael Quinn as being a "self-admitted socialist" who has nothing to offer but "half-baked intel[ligence]." He further attacked Quinn for being "very handicapped" and "hampered" in the presentation of what he decried as Quinn's "stale" views on the history of the Mormon Church.http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2050449,2050449#msg-2050449
I know Quinn personally, know how he thinks and know what he believes. (But that's a discussion for another day). "Phazer," on the other hand, don't know squat.
Allow me to cut to the chase:
Clearly, "Phazer" is working with a malfunctioning taser that falls far short of focusing like a laser. His biggest "handicap," if you will, is his failure to educate himself about, or admit to, the Bible lore that serves up a Jesus the Christ who is a Savior the Socialist. (The thunk you just heard was my granddaddy, Ezra Taft Benson, falling off his throne and hitting his head on a food storage shelf in Mormon heaven).https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ckBlUH_-KMg/hqdefault.jpg
When I pointed out, for going-through-a-phase "Phazer's" benefit, how he showed his blind side when it comes to Jesus' socialism-saturated political and theological ideology, the only response he mustered was to rail against "leftist anti BS talking points" (meaning that leftists were expressing anti-BS? Perhaps "Phazer" committed a typo). Anyway, he didn't cite any specifics from the Gospels that placed Jesus in his capitalist corner. How could he? Ignoring entirely Jesus' track record of preaching in behalf of a god-based, socialized redistribution of wealth, "Phazer" grumped that "[t]he tax burden is . . . very, very high in Denmark and Sweden," then complained that the "U.S. Government hasn't been a very wise spender of money and seems to be defrauded everywhere it goes," then concluded that "the idea of being taxed more for quality services seems like hopeless idea because of very poor money management."http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2050449,2051969#msg-2051969
Hmmm. I don't recall Jesus taking on sinful future tax rates in Denmark and Sweden. I do recall, however, that Jesus was an enemy of greedy money managers doing business in his temples and drove them out with a whip.
The bottom line, so to speak: "Phazer" chose to totally ignore the fact that the Bible's Jesus is a hefty lefty socialist. Even self-admitted atheists like Charlotte Schnook accepts this as the official scriptural storyline on the Master's mindset (assuming, of course, that Jesus even existed, which is also a topic for another day).
In her analysis, "Jesus the Socialist: Why Christian Conservatives are Massive Frauds," Schnook writes the following [original emphasis included]:
"As a scholar of religion, it never fails to amaze me that despite there being over 2,000 Biblical verses in which scripture demands Christians tend to the needs of the poor, I am hard-pressed to find Christians who actually vote with this most imparted teaching. On the contrary, I find zealots who blame the impoverished for their misery, and take delight in the knowledge that such squalor allows their own family to have economic superiority. . . . I have been hard-pressed to find ANY right wing policy which genuinely aided in alleviation of misery which poverty causes, but I find endless promises for continual war & tax cuts for the already wealthy. [Such advcates] are often Christian enough to take away your civil liberties by trying to enforce their INTERPRETIVE ideas on abortion & homosexuality (yes, I said interpretive, because one is hard-pressed to make a SOLID case on these issues, for the Bible is contradictory on them) yet [they are] NOT Christian enough to do the duty Jesus MOST commanded: taking care of the poor. . . . So how is it that the Republican party (and pretty much the Democrats now as well) can claim themselves to be based on 'Christian Values' when the repeatedly violate what Jesus says? And what is it exactly that Jesus did say?
"JESUS ON ECNOMICS
"In America (and in all capitalist countries), people assume their wealth is their own. It's a bedrock belief, we are taught to admire those who build wealth, attain impressive houses, cars, clothes, and retire early to Florida. We are told by the Christian . . . right wing & conservative left that the wealthy worked hard for their money and deserve to reap the benefits. But the Bible tells us differently.
"Luke 12 displays a Jesus delivering parables of a successful businessman. He is so successful that he cannot find enough room for all of his harvest. So the wealthy business man undertakes a massive building project to protect his wealth and plan an early retirement. The 'Christian' culture of America would say this man is a success, for the man did what we are told to do all the time: expand, invest, and use for personal benefit. So, why does Jesus in his parable consider this an antithesis to success? He instead says God considers this man a !fool' BECAUSE he only used his wealth for his 'own' benefit. Jesus goes on to admonish the selfishness and lack of communalism of the businessman. In ultimate renunciation of the man, Jesus advocates the man should have redistributed his wealth to the poor!
"There are countless Biblical stories that match the evil 'socialist' economic ethic, such as the story of Zacchaeus the Tax Collector, which, so illuminating, is found in Luke 19:1-10: Zacchaeus gives half of his wealth and pays back four times what he has defrauded. He has put his own wealth and honor in jeopardy in order to benefit his neighbors and his community. Additionally, Luke 16 contains the story of Lazarus and the rich man. The rich man eats wonderful food and dresses in the finest clothes. Lazarus sits outside of his gates and waits for the scraps from his table. Both men die. The rich man lands in torment and Lazarus at Abraham's side. The rich man's sin, was ignoring the suffering of the poor. He thought of his wealth as his own and the poverty and suffering of others as having no connection to him. This view of the world lands him in torment. How can anyone read these things and then claim Jesus would back a system that propagates a personal/private view of wealth? Both characters in these stories are punished because they only thought of themselves and their wealth!
"'Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the Kingdom of God.' - Luke 6:20-26
"'Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that will come upon you. Your wealth will rot, and moths will eat your clothes. For your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You who have hoarded wealth in the last days!' - James 5:1-3
"'How terrible for you who are rich now, for you have had your easy life and will get no more...' - Luke 6:24
"'But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. You will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.' - Luke 14:13-14
"'If someone takes away your coat, let him have your shirt as well.
"'In the temple courts [Jesus] found men selling cattle, sheep and doves and other sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.' - John 2:14-15. This story which shows Jesus' rage against what is essentially Corporate Greed, merging money with state & theological power, is also repeated in Matthew 21:12 (summed here essentially): Jesus walks into the temple courtyard and sees how merchants there change money, they have built their business up around what is supposed to be God's temple. Jesus is horrified by the idea that God's home could be profaned with money and the desire to be wealthy, he loses it, making a whip and begins turning over the tables the merchants are trading upon, he drives out the cattle being sold and screams a ton of insults at the people in the courtyard. Jesus was filled with righteous indignation at the idea of Church being involved with business, he was horrified that it could be used as a network for making money.
"Why do [conservatives] not feel even a twinge of this divine rage? Why do they say the liberal idea of keeping church separate from state or economics is demonic, when clearly Jesus himself was of the idea?!?!? How do we rectify this with [their] Christian revulsion to [the] discussion of taking 'In God We Trust' off of our money?
"'Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.' - Luke 12-15.
"'Truly, I say unto you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.' - Matthew 19:23
"'Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.' - Matthew 22:21. [Conservatives] would have us believe that paying taxes is a horrific idea, they don't want to pay into social benefits because it violates their 'freedom,' but what of their God's commandment to pay taxes?!?!
"'Give to everyone who begs from you . . . .' - Luke 6:30
"'And I'll say to myself, "You have plenty of good things laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry." But God said to him, "You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?' This is how it will be with anyone who stores up things for himself but is not rich toward God."' - Luke 12:19-21
"'So in everything, do to others as you would have them do to you.' - Matthew 7:12 or 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' - Matthew 22:39. This is what Jesus said is the sum of his law. Yet, does [Conservative government] policy (or even modern [liberal]!policy embody that? Does the person who assigns 18,000 Americans to die a year from lack of health care, 'love his neighbor'? Does the American who back the war for oil and allowed over a million innocent Iraqis to die, 'love his neighbor'? Is a society that doesn't provide free education a display of love for community? Is a society that takes money from the working class to pay for the insane bonuses of wealthy CEOS an act of love for ALL neighbors? Or only an act of love for the rich? And what is it Jesus would say about that?
"'He who oppresses the poor to increase his wealth and he who gives gifts to the rich - both come to poverty.' - Proverbs 22:16
"'If someone takes what is yours, do not ask for it back again...
"'For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is the root of all evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.' - 1 Timothy 6:7-10
"'All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need....' - Acts 2:44-45
"'But love your enemies, and do them good, and lend, never despairing; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be sons of the Most High: for he is kind toward the unthankful and evil.' - Luke 6:35
"'Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.' - 1 Corinthians 10:24. That comment REEKS of 'redistribution' that idea that [conservative] Christians LOATHE. If it is such an evil concept, why does the Bible say we should do it? Moreover, the Bible doesn't claim we should do it in favor of the rich, like we did with the bail-outs. On the contrary, it claims we should forgive the debt of the poor and let the rich fund it!
"Take a look at the story about debt in Luke 7:36-50: We find Jesus eating with a Pharisee, who would be an 'elite.' a part of the richest in society. Pharisees often threw banquets to show off their wealth, it was a status display in ancient Jerusalem that gained them honor in the eyes of their peers. The Pharisee invited Jesus, but at the party a sinner woman comes in and begins weeping at his feet, washing them. The Pharisee thinks to himself how Jesus must not be a prophet for the woman is of low class & Jesus, if he had divine powers, should have known so. Jesus understands the man's thoughts and counters them with a parable about who would love a wealthy man that forgave debt more, someone who owed 50 pence or one who owed 500. The answer is of course the one who owed 500 and then a long diatribe begins about how the more sinful or impoverished a person is, the more they love who forgives them. He is sure to point out that the pharisee in no way treated him with the same honor as the woman at his feet, because he did not understand the need of the impoverished.
"Imagine if [conservatives] who pretend to be Christians REALLY acted like one and instead of authoring bailouts used the 700 billion to buy out the debts of the poor who were in foreclosure. How would that affect our society? We are now in a situation where the rich have MORE money and the working class are MORE IN DEBT, to the point where 1 out of 8 Americans is now facing homelessness! How much crime & threat of violent revolution will we be facing in another three years when we continue on this trend of bailing out rich and we reach the projected number of 50% of families facing homelessness? It stands to reason there Jesus deliberately taught us to pray: "Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors." I&ts a reiteration of the law God gave to the Jews, the law that was ignored so Jesus had to come. There's a ton of debt theme verses from the Bible, and yet [Those who claim] to embody Christian values say people who advocate giving bailouts to American workers & not American CEOS are 'evil socialists.' So, the question rises: What does Jesus advocating redistribution make him? Are the [conservatives] saying Jesus is a socialist? Or are they implying Jesus is evil? You can't answer that question without revealing . . . conservative[s] . . .
. for what they are: liars!
"In further reassertion, take one simple glance into Matthew 19:21-24: 'Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also [. . .] Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions. Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."'
"Clearly, those who have possessions of value then are not 'perfect.' They are deliberately ignoring Jesus' teachings, because they care more about their wealth than they do their Jesus. Knowing this, . . . conservative[s] . . . really have NO right to call themselves Christian.
"'Then he will say to those on his left, "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me." They also will answer, "Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?@ He will reply, "I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least among you, you did not do for me."' - Matthew 25:41-45. And so we have Jesus promising to treat . . . conservative[s] EXACTLY how they treated the poor. I may be an atheist but scriptures like this make me WISH this theology was true just so I could see the day of justice.
"'He is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions, and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.' - 1 Timothy 6:4-5
"And there it is, those who think godliness leads to financial gain do not know the 'truth.' Why does the 700 Club never mention this verse?!?!? Whenever I turn that [expletive deleted] show on I see them claim, 'give to us and god will return your wealth ten fold' (theteby also implying the opposite: the poor are supposedly sinners which is why they have no favor from God). What a [expletive deleted]scam!!!! And these Christians fall for it CONSTANTLY, because they are too [expletive deleted) lazy to read their own Bibles, it's so shameful!
"And this isn't the only such verse which absolutely buries the idea that money does NOT equate to divine favor: 'When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money and said, 'Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.' Peter answered: 'May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money!'" - Acts 8:18-20
"'Whoever loves money never has money enough; whoever loves wealth is never satisfied with his income. This too is meaningless.' - Ecclesiastes 5:10
"And, finally (at least for this essay because there are thousands more of such stories in the Bible), we have Matthew 27:3-8, which really encapsulates Jesus' life & teachings on money. Judas had told the where abouts of Jesus to the Roman soldiers for a measly 30 [pieces of] silver. When the Romans condemned Christ, Judas had a fit of remorse and, trying to at least do SOMETHING positive out of the terrible fiasco, . . . he sought out the priests and tried to give them the 30 [pieces of] silver. But not even the corrupt priests, who Jesus was always screaming at, would take the money because it was dirty. So, Judas, out of sheer desperation, threw it on the ground and ran off to hang himself. The priests, knowing they could do nothing with the money related to their church but knowing they had to do SOMETHING of Christ's teachings with it, bought a plot for poor foreigners to be buried at. And what is it I see in this story? That even Judas, the biggest betrayer in all of history, didn't lack the apathy to see he spilled innocent blood. Yet, Christians have that apathy all the time. The [conservative] American Christian feels nothing about the fact that for every 6 Americans, a human being has to die to support their wealth. We are only 5% of the human population and we consume 40% of the world's resources. Take, for instance, how many people starve to death in Indonesia because we move our corporations there in hopes of paying slave labor so we can get cheaper prices at Walmart. We live in a world where 34,000 children die EVERY DAY from starvation. Judas had the morality to kill himself for the blood money he took, American [conservative] Christians ask for more coin & more blood. And this is why I say that if Jesus were to come back, he'd be called a communist and assassinated again by the cheering right & conservative left. . . .
"The honest Christian HAS to admit that Jesus was a liberal. The word is defined by an having an open mind, by seeking to 'liberate! beyond the status quo. Jesus abandoned the orthodox rules of the Jews, he admonished [against] the status quo of economic and political hierarchy. He rejected greed. He often admonished [against] violence. He hated the glorification of power, despised the amassing of wealth and hated social injustice. Jesus spoke against the personal judging of others. He repeatedly asked his followers to live a life based on ethics that, for his time, were absolutely revolutionary concerning compassion, love, tolerance and generosity. Jesus was against those who wanted to 'conserve' things as they were, and its amazing to me that 2,000 years after he supposedly lived, those who claim to be his beloved still try to conserve the capitalist system which they KNOW is responsible for so much poverty & repression. If someone wants to be a capitalist, that's fine, but I won't hear from them how they are simultaneously a Christian, because, 'No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.' (Matthew 6:24)."
("Jesus the Socialist: Why Christian Conservatives are Massive Frauds," by Charlotte Schnook, at "Atheists Concerned for America: Refreshing Looks at Politics, Religion and Social Problems;" google it)
But wait, here's more on Jesus the Savior for Socialism. Peter Dreier, professor of politics at Occidental College and author of "The 100 Greatest Americans of the 20th Century: A Social Justice Hall of Fame" (Nation Books, 2012), makes the case for a Leftist Lord, as spoken from the Holy Horse's mouth (then backed up by notable religious, secular and political leaders who came along later with socialism movements of their own):
"The idea of Christian socialism has a long and proud tradition. As capitalism emerged in the mid-1800s, many of its fiercest critics based their ideas on Jesus’ teachings.
“'No one can serve two masters,' Jesus says in Matthew 6:24. 'Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.'
"In Luke 12:15, Jesus says, 'Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.’
"Jesus not only urged people to be kind to others in their everyday lives. He was also talking about those in government who ruled over others, including the priests who ruled Judea for Rome and the rulers of the Roman empire.
"Pope Leo XIII (1810-1903)--often called the 'workers’ pope' — echoed similar ideas. His 1891 encyclical Rerum Novarum ('On the Condition of Labor') focused attention on the dehumanizing conditions in which many workers labored. He affirmed workers’ rights to just wages, rest, and fair treatment, to form unions, and to strike if necessary. He called on governments to promote a more equal distribution of resources and said, in particular, that the poor 'have a claim to special consideration.' He did not espouse socialism, but his attacks on capitalism for its endorsement of greed, its concentration of wealth, and its mistreatment of workers had a major influence on the emerging socialist movement in Europe and America.
"Francis Bellamy (1855-1931), an American Baptist minister, was a leading Christian socialist. Like Pope Leo, he championed the rights of working people and a more equal distribution of wealth and income, which he believed reflected Jesus’ teachings. In 1891, Bellamy was fired from his Boston pulpit for preaching against the evils of capitalism and describing Jesus as a socialist. But he’s best known as the author of the 'Pledge of Allegiance,' which he wrote in 1892 as an antidote to Gilded Age greed, misguided materialism, and hyper-individualism, reflected in those radical words 'with liberty and justice for all.' (Ironically, Bellamy did not include the words 'under God' in the original Pledge. They were added by Congress in 1953 at the height of the Cold War).
"Many of America’s leading socialists--including labor leader Eugene Debs, settlement house founder Jane Addams, Rev. Walter Rauschenbusch, and Helen Keller--rooted their views in their Christian faith, which became known as 'social gospel.' Indeed, many of the leaders of America’s socialist movement, including Norman Thomas (1884-1968)--who ran for president five times on the Socialist Party ticket and was often called 'America’s conscience--were Protestant clergy.
"Throughout American history, some of the nation’s most influential activists and thinkers, such as philosopher John Dewey, sociologist W.E.B. DuBois, scientist Albert Einstein, poet Katherine Lee Bates (who wrote 'America the Beautiful'), muckraking writer Upton Sinclair, labor leaders A. Philip Randolph and Walter Reuther, civil rights crusader Martin Luther King, feminists Charlotte Perkins Gilman and Gloria Steinem, Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger, and Dorothy Day (founder of the Catholic Worker movement) embraced democratic socialism.
"In the early 1900s, socialists led the movements for women’s suffrage, child labor laws, consumer protection laws and the progressive income tax. In 1911, Victor Berger, a socialist congressman from Milwaukee, sponsored the first bill to create 'old age pensions.' The bill didn’t get very far, but two decades later, in the midst of the Depression, President Franklin D. Roosevelt persuaded Congress to enact Social Security. Even then, some critics denounced it as un-American. But today, most Americans, even conservatives, believe that Social Security is a good idea. What had once seemed radical has become common sense.
"Much of FDR’s other New Deal legislation--the minimum wage, workers’ right to form unions and public works programs to create jobs for the unemployed--was first espoused by American socialists. Socialists have long pushed for a universal health insurance plan, which helped create the momentum for stepping-stone measures such as Medicare and Medicaid in the 1960s.
"Socialists were in the forefront of the civil rights movement from the founding of the NAACP in 1909 through the Voting Rights Act of 1965.
"[Baptist pastor] King believed that America needed a 'radical redistribution of economic and political power.' In October 1964, he called for a 'gigantic Marshall Plan& for the poor--black and white. Later that year, after he he traveled to Oslo to accept the Nobel Peace Prize, he told friends that the U.S. could learn much from Scandinavian 'democratic socialism.' In fact, he told his staff, 'There must be a better distribution of wealth, and maybe America must move toward a democratic socialism.'
"During the Cold War, many Americans confused democratic socialism with communism. In fact, democratic socialists opposed the totalitarian governments of the Soviet Union, China and their satellites. That’s because democratic socialism is about democracy--giving ordinary people a greater voice in both politics and the workplace.
"[Bernie] Sanders’ version of democratic socialism is akin to what most people around the world call 'social democracy,' which seeks to make capitalism more humane. This is why [he] often said that the U.S. should learn from Sweden, Norway and Denmark --countries with greater equality, a higher standard of living for working families, better schools, free universities, less poverty, a cleaner environment, higher voter turnout, stronger unions, universal health insurance, and a much wider safety net
"Sounds anti-business? Forbes magazine ranked Denmark as the #1 country for business. The United States ranked #18. European social democracies put greater emphasis on government enterprise, but even most Americans favor government-run police departments, fire departments, national parks, municipally-owned utilities, local subway systems and public state universities.
"Today’s democratic socialists believe in private enterprise but think it should be subject to rules that guarantee businesses act responsibly. Banks shouldn’t engage in reckless predatory lending. Energy corporations shouldn’t endanger and planet and public health by emitting too much pollution. Companies should be required to guarantee that consumer products (like cars and toys) are safe and that companies pay decent wages and provide safe workplaces.
"Democratic socialism also means reducing the political influence of the super rich and big corporations, increasing taxes of the wealthy to help pay for expanded public services like child care, public transit, and higher education, reducing barriers to voting, and strengthening regulations of business to require them to be more socially responsible in terms of their employees, consumers and the environment. That means a higher minimum wage, paid sick days and paid vacations, and safer workplaces.
"A poll earlier this year found that among Americans under 50, a majority are critical of capitalism. Although the word 'socialism' has often been demonized, public opinion polls show that a vast majority of Americans agree with these ideas. For example, 74% think corporations have too much influence; 73% favor tougher regulation of Wall Street; 60% believe that “our economic system unfairly favors the wealthy;” 85% want an overhaul of our campaign finance system to reduce the influence of money in politics; 58% support breaking up big banks; 79% think the wealthy don’t pay their fair share of taxes; 85% favor paid family leave; 80% of Democrats and half the public support single-payer Medicare for all; 75% of Americans (including 53% of Republicans) support an increase in the federal minimum wage to $12.50, while 63% favor a $15 minimum wage; well over 70% support workers’ rights to unionize; and 92% want a society with far less income disparity.
"There’s a great deal of pent-up demand for . . . candidate[s] who articulates Americans’ frustrations with the status quo. . .. [fpr] . . . candidate[s] who can channel those frustrations in a way that inspires hope rather than fear can build on the long tradition of Christian socialism and social democracy."
In other words, for candidates like Jesus.
(Peter Dreier, "Jesus Was a Socialist," in "Huffington Post," 26 December 2016, https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/13854296
Sorry to use my light saber as a liberal laser, "Phazer," but allow me, as a gawd-forsaken atheist, to suggest you put that in your anti-socialist, anti-evidence, anti-Quinn pipe and smoke it,
And may all ungodly socialists burn in hell--including Jesus.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NaM1E1s_R4
Edited 14 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2017 06:16AM by steve benson.