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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: December 05, 2017 05:32PM


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2017 05:34PM by anybody.

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Posted by: Done &. Done ( )
Date: December 05, 2017 06:02PM

They want it to be a sin and that is good enough for them. That's the way bigotry works.

I'd like to think that you can make some of the anti LGBT'ers think a bit if you hit them with the Good Samaritan story and get them to realize they are acting like the Priest and the Levite, but, no. If that doesn't do it there's not much hope because obviously they like mean, nasty, Old Testament God better and think that's the way to go. 'Screw this softie Jesus stuff,' they think deep down, 'Give me the God who drowns people and kills firstborns.' I think a lot of them are just angry that stoning gays is illegal, so, how you going to get them to sell you their wares?

Of course sleeping with your wife's hand maidens is okay or getting drunk and sleeping with your daughters. You can still sell those people a cake with their favorite frosting.

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Posted by: cinda ( )
Date: December 05, 2017 09:33PM

How are they doing this? please explain :)

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Posted by: Neil Gorsuch ( )
Date: December 05, 2017 10:37PM

I agree with cinda, please, please, pleeeease explain how they are doing this.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: December 05, 2017 10:45PM

"I can't bake a cake for a gay wedding."

That's how.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: December 05, 2017 10:58PM

and make up scriptural justification for it -- even if there isn't any...


https://www.charismanews.com/culture/65751-is-it-acceptable-for-christian-business-owners-to-refuse-service-to-gay-people


http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/12/christian-groups-say-anti-gay-discrimination-is-rare-here-are-1000-counterarguments/

As I've said before, religion just makes hate more acceptable.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2017 05:16AM by anybody.

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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: December 06, 2017 12:53AM

Those articles were horribly sad. And, having gay friends who have suffered discrimination, I know that these things go on every day.

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Posted by: icanseethelight ( )
Date: December 06, 2017 01:46PM

Did anyone ever ask all the other letters if they wanted to be included?

If you take identity groupthink to its ultimate and inevitable conclusion, you have a fascist society that controls you by how you identify.

A business owner can refuse the right to serve anyone, for any reason(or at least they should be able to).

I have turned many assholes away in businesses I have run, how long before being an asshole is a protected class?

There were other cake makers who would have been happy to make a cake.

We now have as many sexual orientations and gender identifiers as we do citizens...

Follow the golden rule and don't try and impose your will on others.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: December 06, 2017 01:52PM

The OP is talking about "sin" here as the focus. Let's not resurrect the tired old arguments for why discrimination is okay by people like you.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: December 06, 2017 03:01PM

when it's just discrimination and they are trying to make it a religious issue just to get away with it.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: December 06, 2017 03:13PM

Exactly.

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Posted by: icanseethelight ( )
Date: December 10, 2017 02:48PM

LOL. People like me? Who am I exactly?

Am I cis? bi? tri? gay? trans?

A jewish boy who identifies as an asian girl but only is attracted to toasters?

Can you tell with less than 200 words?

But you are right. it was an unintentional hi-jack.

The answer to the OP is there is no such thing as sin. Just like there should be no such thing as a "protected class".

Back to the golden rule. When there is integrity by the majority, you don't need so many rules and if dueling was legal everyone would be a lot more polite.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2017 02:52PM by icanseethelight.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: December 06, 2017 02:02PM

icanseethelight Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A business owner can refuse the right to serve
> anyone, for any reason(or at least they should be
> able to).

This is not true. A business owner, who owns a business which caters to the public, cannot discriminate on the basis of anyone in a [legally] "protected class"---which means, most of the time, on the basis of race, religion, ethnicity, etc. (and any gender discrimination has to make sense...which, in our contemporary society, is a legally moving target at present, so "makes [apparent] sense" at one point in time may be considered illegal discrimination at another: rest rooms, locker rooms, Prom King and Queen, etc. as easy examples).

This is now settled law, and has been since the Civil Rights Era, which (in its embryonic form) began at the close of World War II.

Many Americans were imprisoned, were murdered, and died so that this kind of now-illegal discrimination could be made illegal throughout the USA.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2017 02:03PM by Tevai.

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Posted by: a nonny mouse ( )
Date: December 06, 2017 02:18PM

Exactly - a business owner can post a sign that says "we reserve the right to refuse service" but it means absolutely nothing. As a public business, you are required by law to serve the public and that means everyone with money in hand to buy what it is you're selling. If you are a kosher butcher, you don't have to sell anyone ham since that's not what you sell, but you do have to sell your brisket to gentiles.

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Posted by: Thomas ( )
Date: December 06, 2017 06:14PM

At the federal level, LGBTQA+ is not a protected class.

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Posted by: [|] ( )
Date: December 06, 2017 08:26PM

But the case in question involves a Colorado state law that does include them as a protected class.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: December 06, 2017 10:30PM

icanseethelight Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A business owner can refuse the right to serve
> anyone, for any reason(or at least they should be
> able to).

No, actually, they can't. And why "should" they be able to? I don't see any good reason.

> I have turned many assholes away in businesses I
> have run, how long before being an asshole is a
> protected class?

Being an asshole is a choice. Being gay isn't.

> We now have as many sexual orientations and gender
> identifiers as we do citizens...

Ridiculous hyperbole.

> Follow the golden rule and don't try and impose
> your will on others.

You mean like don't impose your will to deny services to blacks/jews/muslims/gays/whatever?
Try following your own rule.

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Posted by: Thomas ( )
Date: December 06, 2017 06:12PM

Please explain how forcing people to associate with each other isn't tyranny.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: December 06, 2017 06:31PM

We aren't talking about people "associating" with each other--forced or voluntary. That is very misleading.

We are talking about people open for business to the public refusing their wares to all of the public based on discrimination and claiming that action is justified because for them it would be a "sin" to sell to LGBT. Big difference.

The subject of thread is regarding what makes it a sin to sell your product to LGBT? Why sin?

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Posted by: cinda ( )
Date: December 06, 2017 08:19PM

Okay, no doubt showing ignorance here but.... I understand the LGBTQ, but what is indicated by the 'IA'? The 'A' maybe indicating 'asexual'? Can't figure out what the 'I' is? And I may be totally wrong on the 'A', as well?

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Posted by: heckler ( )
Date: December 06, 2017 08:51PM

Cinda - intersex and asexual.


Refusing to serve all equally is the "sin"; it's hard to argue these points, but bigots still try to dodge the precepts:

http://www.jaxworx.com/politics/wwjd/

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: December 06, 2017 10:49PM

Such a convenient word, "Sin." Isn't it?

I am old and come from a time when we could be arrested without committing any crime other than being us. We could be sent to an asylum by family doctors against our will as we were listed as mentally ill. We could be subject to bashings and murders and electroshock therapy. Suicides were common. And many either didn't care or thought we were getting what we deserved. So whose sin was that?

The drag queens and trans and gays threw bricks at police to turn things around at the Stonewall standoff and started the ball rolling. A kinder more enlightened and embracing society have joined the battle with us. What is their sin?

When I was a kid I heard from my Mormon elders the words "give them an inch and they'll take a mile," as we watched the race riots on TV and the Peaceful marches as well. Who would dare say that now in public? Who wants to own that sin?

Very few dare to *openly* discriminate against Jews or Blacks or some others nowadays, but they still want to reserve the right to target whoever was next on their list. Some, like the Mormon church, wrap this up as their " religious rights," making a whore of the word "rights." So many looking for ways over, under or around decency and inclusion while claiming their divine privilege to be their trump card.

No shirts. No shoes. No service. Let's leave it at that. Unless maybe a homeless person needs a helping hand. Then even that is off?

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Posted by: readwrite ( )
Date: December 08, 2017 08:04PM

Providing anything for a prophet is ALWAYS A SIN. No "explanation" needed. Use your imagination.

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Posted by: Humberto ( )
Date: December 08, 2017 08:14PM

Wasn't Jesus known for hanging out with sinners? I thought he kind of made a point of it. Aw hell, I probably just didn't read the NT with the right "spirit", in order to glean all the hate out of it that others have managed to.

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Posted by: StilllAnon ( )
Date: December 11, 2017 02:31PM


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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: December 11, 2017 03:36PM

and I want to know how they theologically claim providing a service for a profit to anyone is a sin when they just don't like them.

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Posted by: Non-lib ( )
Date: December 11, 2017 04:37PM

Goodness, why don't they just include all 26 letters in the stupid acronym and call it a day.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: December 11, 2017 04:46PM

Non-lib Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Goodness, why don't they just include all 26
> letters in the stupid acronym and call it a day.

Doesn't matter what the acronym is or isn't -- this isn't about an acronym. It's about religious people discriminating against people they don't like. For whatever reason. For whatever acronym is used or isn't used.

The *exact same* "it's against my religion" arguments were used to discriminate against blacks. And Asians. And (in some other places) whites. What part of that are you justifying as reasonable?

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Posted by: Non-lib ( )
Date: December 11, 2017 06:05PM

It's strictly business for me. I believe that the couple went to that bakery just to stir controversy. A business CAN choose its customers: in supermarkets there's "no shoes, no shirt, no service," a tattoo artist can choose whether or not to tattoo a drunk person or a nazi symbol, cross, a Chinese character, etc., pregnant women can be refused alcohol, and a baker can choose not to provide a cake decorated with gay propaganda. I'm sure they requested penis decor on there.

This is capitalism where we can choose to go to businesses that will serve us how we like it. It creates competition in businesses as well. For every one baker who won't bake a cake, there are thousands that will.

I don't agree with being forced into following a gay agenda. There's no proof that being gay is even a thing you're born with. I've known many people who went gay as a fad. Anyway, that's another topic. I'm not jumping down the rabbit hole with you. These are my thoughts.

I'm atheist btw.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: December 11, 2017 07:38PM

http://latinousa.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Mexicans.png

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/10/21/1445446357535/Sign-in-London-reading-No-009.jpg?w=1200&h=630&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=crop&crop=faces%2Centropy&bm=normal&ba=bottom%2Cleft&blend64=aHR0cHM6Ly91cGxvYWRzLmd1aW0uY28udWsvMjAxNi8wNi8wNy9vdmVybGF5LWxvZ28tMTIwMC05MF9vcHQucG5n&s=4d8ed9d298acb46e7469da0679e203f9

It's not about groups with letters or initials.

It's about fairness and decency and public commerce.

If you can make up sin on the fly to discriminate against anyone you didn't like for any reason it's no different than the fake tests they used to give African-Americans to keep them from voting.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2017 08:04PM by anybody.

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Posted by: NeverBeenaMormon ( )
Date: December 11, 2017 08:02PM

Not that I agree with the idea but as I understand it to bake a cake would be seen as supporting the occasion - when the bakers no doubt believe the event is an affront to God. Supporting something that goes against God's way of doing things is therefore sin

A hard principle to put into practice in almost every other way of life but one they're determined to force on this issue

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: December 12, 2017 04:40AM

What the HELL

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