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Posted by: Noorganizedreligion4me ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 08:22AM

Those uniforms are most definitely not "modest". They get paid to shake their fannies in front of thousands of men. They pose for a calendar in tiny bikinis. And they work on Sunday!

How does any of that fit with being a Mormon sister? How do they manage to wear their magical underwear under that skimpy outfit?

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Posted by: nonsense ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 09:14AM

I just read a tiny bit about one of them, Madeline Massingill. Her name made me wince, but if a woman wants to get away with strutting her stuff, I guess this is a good way to do it. Until the Q "bans" the NFL, what can they say? "Football is okay, but any man whomsoever casteth his eye upon a cheerleader.....

What if all of the young women at BYU started dressing like the BYU cheerleaders? HC violations, all.

Mormonism is pure, made-up nonsense, or, is totally fine with immodesty in order to fit in with "gentiles." They got some explaining to do.

But none of it will make sense.

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Posted by: Chicken N. Backpacks ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 10:46AM

Well, she's not showing her porn shoulders in the Cowboys outfit and she's showing health in the navel, so I guess everything is A-OK.

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Posted by: mankosuki ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 09:25AM

Where is Ziller?

In for pictures.

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Posted by: ziller ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 10:34PM


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Posted by: Dorothy ( )
Date: December 05, 2017 02:27PM

I'm no expert, but Tasha's boobs looks like a silicone dream.

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Posted by: StillAnon ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 10:10AM

LDS Inc always looks the other way when it comes to money and fame. Not condoning the hypocrisy, but Dallas Cowboy Cheerleader is a very prestigious job. There are 3,000 applicants for every 1 opening. Gotta have some business sense to go along with that body. When I lived in Houston, my little brother's 2nd grade teacher was an ex-Dallas Cowboy cheerleader. She had the highest attendance for parent-teacher conferences. Like it or not, "Dallas Cowboy Cheerleader" is impressive on your resume'.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 11:23AM

Prestigious, how? Their "salaries" probably don't even cover their expenses. They are not paid for rehearsals and training camps. They are generally not allowed to interact with the professional sports team members.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/01/the-shockingly-low-salaries-of-professional-cheerleaders/283299/

It's basically a hobby with a lot of demands and a huge time commitment.

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Posted by: Chicken N. Backpacks ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 12:16PM

"It's basically a hobby with a lot of demands and a huge time commitment."

So then, a lot like the mormon church, but with sexier outfits?

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

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Posted by: stillanon ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 12:46PM

If you're chosen, 1 of 3000, it means a lot on future job applications. You're correct, they are not allowed to date players. But TV execs, team owners, TV producers, etc,. It's a huge boost for a career in sports or communications. I used to have the "T&A, dumb blonde cheerleader" point of view, until I met some Cowgirls. I walked away with a new perspective and respect.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 12:36PM

Not to defend the Mormons, but back in the dark ages there was a guy who refused to take off his garments to play in the church basketball tournament. Not kidding. Even as a kid it was ridiculous to me to see his G's flouncing out as he chased the ball around the cultural hall. (The shorts were shorter then) I asked my Dad, the bishop, 'what was the deal?'

He said that there obviously has to be some common sense when it comes to sports or required uniforms for jobs and that it was okay to not wear the garments during performances or events and that it actually showed more respect to participate without them.

I don't know if there is any official church policy, but you know, there are a few temple married Mormon girls on Dancing with the Stars and those outfits make the Cheerleaders outfits look positively prim.

The church loves to point to their celebrities and semi-celebrities as feathers in their caps and that means more than a few bare parts here and there.

So what if you make your living as a pole dancer? Where is the line that can't be crossed speaking of professions?

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: December 05, 2017 01:41PM

He would've been declared a hero in my stake. My stake began to obsess itself over elders going shirtless or not wearing long enough shirts and shorts. They actually banned BB for about 6 months because they couldn't get elders to conform with their edicts.

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Posted by: Phazer ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 12:38PM

Let's hope they never get married in the temple and enjoy to wear garments. I haven't met an LDS women that hasn't complained about them.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 12:46PM

I was thinking the DWTS dancers must love getting out of their G's and into those beautiful costumes and feeling "alive."

The one contestant this year, the violin player Lindsay was even an RM.

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Posted by: tumwater ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 01:06PM

IMHO, this thread of messages are very judgmental.

Let the women live their lives as they see fit.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 01:18PM

But, but, but what if they start to get uppity??!!

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 03:02PM

That's certainly true, tumwater.

It is fine to note that the church is hypocritical as hell when it comes to the modesty standards, sabbath observance, etc., but the women shouldn't be criticized for making whatever choices they want.

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Posted by: CateS ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 09:09PM

"live their lives as they see fit"

Hmmm...

This could be the first line in a lengthy conversation about women's roles in society, and who determines what roles are actually open to them and what kind of choices they really have.

As far as the person above who made the statement about how much influence writing "dallas cowsboy cheerleader" on an application might have--that's dependent on what job the applicant is applying for.

Unapologetic feminist here. And no, allowing sex workers (whatever the job) a free pass calling it their "choice" is NOT post-feminism.

My guess is that Madeline Massingill would vociferously deny it if she were called a feminist.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 10:29PM

Not to mention that in our culture, money equals respect. The pro football players are probably hired at a rate of one in 3,000+ as well, but they make &^%* well sure that they get paid.

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Posted by: Free Man ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 11:02PM

"This could be the first line in a lengthy conversation about women's roles in society, and who determines what roles are actually open to them and what kind of choices they really have."

Can dudes try out for the Dallas cheerleader squad? Why not?

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Posted by: nonsense ( )
Date: December 05, 2017 09:20AM

Free Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "This could be the first line in a lengthy
> conversation about women's roles in society, and
> who determines what roles are actually open to
> them and what kind of choices they really have."
>
> Can dudes try out for the Dallas cheerleader
> squad? Why not?


Oh, look. It's because the boss-man tossed the guys from the squad to draw more male fan money. Besides, if he left men on the squad, they might have to actually pay them a living wage, and that could lead to having to pay the women the same. As it is, the women *earn prestige,* because it's not a *real job.*


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Cowboys_Cheerleaders


It's simply not the case that "women hold the power" in this world, Free Man. Money equates to power in the first world. Follow the money. Always. Even following your ever-constant line of misogynistic (and thus limited) reasoning, the reason that "women use sex as power" would be that their access to money is defined by their relationships to men. Groceries, Free Man, groceries. Everybody needs groceries. Who are the grocers? Sex is not on the same level of "need" as groceries. Put down your fork for an extended period, then tell me again who holds the power, in your belief system.

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Posted by: Lizzer ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 03:02PM

~ IN B4 Ziller ~

~ UP with cheerleaders ~

~ DOWN with garments ~

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Posted by: ziller ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 10:54PM


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Posted by: lizzer ( )
Date: December 05, 2017 01:49PM

~ thx fer th lnx (srs) ~

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Posted by: saucie ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 07:37PM

I don't care if they do cartwheels in the nude on the statue

of liberty. I'm out, no longer a mormon .... it doesn't bother

me in the least what they do. There is so much other crap in

the world that is far more interesting and important that what

some mormon cheerleaders do that I wish them well, because

I don't give a rats ass. I'm not goint to get all judgmental

about it.

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Posted by: Jimbo ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 07:38PM

The only thing they have done wrong is being cheerleaders for such a pathetic NFL team.

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Posted by: unbelievable2 ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 10:37PM

Rumor has it that Marie Osmond doesn't wear garments on stage during performances. And the Osmond family are best buds with TJ Monson.

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Posted by: Free Man ( )
Date: December 04, 2017 11:49PM

"Not to mention that in our culture, money equals respect. The pro football players are probably hired at a rate of one in 3,000+ as well, but they make &^%* well sure that they get paid."

In general, the more demand for something, the higher the price. Unless government gets involved and screws everything up.

There is more demand for football than for cheerleaders. People go to a football game mostly for football, which is why it is called a football game. There are other attractions, but they are not the main attraction.

People like to see their team win, and ticket sales go down when they don't. In order to win, the team needs to pay for the best players they can. Then they sell more tickets, which provides money for the high salaries.

Most people don't pay more for things or services than they have to. Same applies to football players and cheerleaders.

If there was the same demand for cheerleaders, they would be paid the same. Can a cheerleading show alone fill a stadium?

Another reason football players are paid more is it is more demanding, in both time and cost to their body. Damage to brains and bones and joints. Many are crippled in later years.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: December 05, 2017 12:20AM

Cheerleaders are willing to sell their services cheaply because of the "prestige." It's a lot of work for what is essentially pin money.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: December 05, 2017 10:34AM

Free Man brings hard reason to the conversation. I find summer's take very illuminating, although I am not sure prestige is the right word. If we are just purely speculating then I must join in. The idea of equality keeps popping up everywhere like a Whack-a-Mole. Interesting that summer sees the hard work and effort while many are focused on the lovely vision.

Although many may be educated and accomplished, the main reason to become a cheerleader is status and proof that you are hot. For the rest of her life she will have a trail of people saying, "Oh she was a Cowboy Cheerleader," meaning the was hot when she was young. Bosses bragging "My new employee was a Cowboy Cheerleader!" Mormons will be as impressed as anyone else (even the ones who say they are't), economically sized outfits aside.

Is it right? Is it it wrong? OR is it just what is. It takes two to tango and both sexes make the current dynamic what it is. Balance of power is changing faster than I thought it would, but still too slowly for women. Like blacks and gays, you have to push hard.

I agree with Freeman that the economics of the situation still drive the show. Same in show biz. Equal pay has to be forced because the buying public are prone to pay for men. Thor aced all the touchy feely movies with the great roles for women this last week. Money talks. Wonder Woman was great, but the trend is not broken yet.

So we can ask ourselves should things be different until the cows come home, but in the end people do "put their money where their mouth is." Women claim to have to work twice as hard to get noticed. Maybe true in many cases. Is that a bad thing or is it that the more someone is challenged, the more they excel? Would they be as accomplished without the hurdles? Should success be legislated or does that water things down?

Me? Don't care about the cheerleaders and I do go to see the movies with the great female roles. And when it comes to women, I just don't want to hear about any more in my family pulling veils over their faces and saying yes to the men.

Now let's talk about Hedy Lamar. Stunning movie actress and acclaimed inventor. That was a mold breaker. My kind of woman.

In the end I just like to muse. These are just questions I think are worth thinking about. The cheerleaders should just enjoy themselves and have a good time. That is enough for everyone.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: December 05, 2017 12:04PM

Regarding the hotness -- I was in the same room as two pro football cheerleaders once when they are making a personal appearance on behalf of the team. They seemed somewhat taller than normal -- maybe in the 5'7" to 5'10" range. But my overriding impression was that they were far too thin. They were not a healthy thin but bordering on an anorexic thin. I realize that models, actresses, cheerleaders, etc. are often thinner than the rest of us because the camera adds weight. But this was not an attractive look. Beyond that, they were good looking, but not stunning. I've seen plenty of young women that are prettier. And they wore a lot of makeup, which can pretty up even the plainest Jane.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2017 04:26PM by summer.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: December 05, 2017 12:30PM

Enough mascara, lipstick, hair thickened with extensions and the flashing pan of a camera and anyone can look good? Bette singing "From a Distance" somehow seems appropriate. Maybe prestige is the best word. And why not cheerleader as a stepping stone to something else? You use whatever is available. We all have to McGyver our way?

I may not be the best judge of female hotness, however, as I do not see the cheerleaders through teenage boy eyes obviously. Haha. Although once when I met Jeri Ryan I did feel a slight pang of something. Luckily it went away quickly. Very nice person.

The older I get, the more personality is everything. I wish we could all start out that way. I remember even in grade school that everyone was very aware, too aware, of who the cute kids were.

I am just running on now. Somebody stop me.

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Posted by: StillAnon ( )
Date: December 05, 2017 12:31PM

Hey summer. Not trying to pick an argument with you, but do you have cheerleader issues? When I was a young guy growing up in Houston, I dated a couple of Derrick Dolls (the Houston Oilers cheerleaders). Most of them were either in college or had graduated. They were good looking women without a ton of makeup. Yes, they were on weight restrictions, like you said, the camera packs on a few pounds. But, they were all physically fit- way more that the average person, and basically pretty, without a bunch of work. They were hard workers and I gained a lot of respect for their occupation.

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Posted by: nonsense ( )
Date: December 05, 2017 01:43PM

StillAnon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey summer. Not trying to pick an argument with
> you, but do you have cheerleader issues? When I
> was a young guy growing up in Houston, I dated a
> couple of Derrick Dolls (the Houston Oilers
> cheerleaders). Most of them were either in college
> or had graduated. They were good looking women
> without a ton of makeup. Yes, they were on weight
> restrictions, like you said, the camera packs on a
> few pounds. But, they were all physically fit- way
> more that the average person, and basically
> pretty, without a bunch of work. They were hard
> workers and I gained a lot of respect for their
> occupation.


lol, right, because .....? Summer commented on *two* (not your dolls) cheerleaders, in less than gushing terms, she should be vetted for any *issues.* I assume your description to be completely objective? You know, having *dated* them.

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Posted by: StillAnon ( )
Date: December 05, 2017 02:39PM

No, I too categorized them as shallow bimbos. But, after getting to know some of them, I realized my preconceived views were wrong.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: December 05, 2017 04:24PM

No. Just noting that I've seen better looking and they were painfully thin -- much thinner than I would have expected. We're talking size double zero or less. Not a size 4 or 6. They were perfectly nice and friendly. And they can spend their time however they want. I'm just rolling my eyes a bit at the concept of "prestige," and noting that they should be better paid for their efforts.

I've heard of women who have moved from one city to another in pursuit of pro cheerleading gigs. It's very important to some women.

I was a three sport varsity athlete in high school, and a former lifeguard and ski bum, so I do have a dim memory of what it's like to be fit. :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2017 04:26PM by summer.

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: December 05, 2017 01:35PM

I have no qualms about the garment deal and wearing a required uniform for a job or activity. However, I hated those guilt-trip driven lessons that targeted the rest of the "average members" to wear garments all the time or you should refrain from such activity. While I wisely stayed out of the fray, two buddies that had just returned from the missionary field decided to pick a bone about wearing the garments mantra that was being hammered into the EQ lessons. It didn't help matters that a big wig from HC was among us and decided to pipe up about engaging in activities that would require endowed members to remove their garments.

Basically, my buddies were always going to the river to hike and swim and they felt they shouldn't be burdened by trying to find a non-existent bathroom to change into swimming trunks. They felt that the swimming activity permitted them to drive around in their swimming attire and felt 100% justified. They wanted the church leaders to agree with that~ Fat chance!

The High Councilor spoke as if the he had been personally attacked. He reminded us elders that were endowed had entered into a covenant in the temple. He then chastised us for using swimming as an excuse for not wearing our garments. He created one of those "what if" scenarios that a tragic accident might afflict us when we could have been "protected" by our magic undies. Apparently this and similar observations stirred up my local SP. We started to hear SM talks from our HC that extolled members to wear the garments at all times. Yuck!

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: December 05, 2017 01:53PM

Thank you for returning us to the heart of the topic. I always felt there was a double standard between the half-celebs and the Mormon masses. You have described the Mormon church I knew.

Even in the "And I'm a Mormon" adds they spotlighted the most unlikely people with tattoos and very worldly attire who talked about their off-beat life styles. But just try going to church that way and see what happens.

Reminds me of when you see stunts being performed and they always say, "These are professionals. Don't try this at home."

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: December 05, 2017 04:37PM

The Mormon DWTS pros and celebrity contestants seem to wear what everyone else is wearing. Which means they are not overly concerned about modesty. But I remember when I went to a variety show at BYU many years ago, the dancers who were on the ballroom team were wearing *very* modest outfits.

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Posted by: Dorothy ( )
Date: December 05, 2017 03:01PM

In my final ward, the bishop's wife lost weight, had some plastic surgery and began wearing adorable skimpy tennis outfits any time and any where I would see her. I don't play tennis.

Normally, I would think, well good for you, but she was rotten to my kid and thought her son's gayness was on par with my daughter's suicide.

There are ways to justify all sorts of things.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: December 06, 2017 12:00PM

I had a puppylove girlfriend in the Dallas 4th and Richardson wards who eventually became a Dallas Cowgirl. She was quite beautiful, was a cheerleader at Abrams High School (close to where I lived in Richardson), went to BYU as a freshman where she cheered on the varsity squad, and from there left to become a Dallas Cowgirl. (She also worked as a flight attendant for Frontier Airlines). She once told me that her colleagues on the Cowgirl squad were jealous of the fact that she was featured in the front rows of their official squad photograph.

She later became a Mormon temple worker at the Dallas temple.

Seriously. The Lord works in mysterious ways.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2017 04:01AM by steve benson.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: December 06, 2017 12:43PM

steve benson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> She also later became a Mormon temple worker at
> the Dallas temple.

Give me an S, give me an A, give me a T, give me an A, give me an N -- what's that spell?

SATAN!

Rah-rah!

Now get in a circle...

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Posted by: JestSayin ( )
Date: December 06, 2017 12:53PM

People do all sorts of time consuming and expensive things, just for prestige or the feel good factor. Anyway...

I suspect the investment these women make is often with the hopes of better show business opportunities. For example, here's a link to an article about former Cowboys cheerleaders. One says that people are always impressed by it on her resume:

http://www.dallasobserver.com/arts/dallas-cowboys-cheerleaders-go-on-to-reality-tv-country-music-videos-nba-scouting-9335559

Also, even for the "losers," I suspect it's a long term investment of another kind. It'd be interesting to see how well former cowboy cheerleaders marry relative to the general population.

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