Date: December 02, 2017 04:34PM
Now chatting with: Francesca and Skylar
Nick 12:44 PM
Hi I saw an ad on FB saying I could get real answers to real questions here. Is that true?
Skylar 12:44 PM
Nick 12:44 PM
I read Joseph Smith had 34 wives, 11 of whom were teenagers and another 11 of whom were already married to faithful LDS priesthood holders. Is that true?
I read it on LDS.org.
"Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo"
Is that fact shared with prospective members before they join?
Francesca 12:47 PM
That can be a really difficult thing to understand because polygamy in our day is obviously wrong. I think it's important to remember that He was alive during a different time period first of all. It was the 1800s and culture was different. He might have actually had more wives then that, so you are right that he had plural wives, and a lot of them were teenage because a lot of people got married when they were teenagers during that time. I'm not sure about the faithful LDS priesthood holders part though.
We would never hide that from anyone, and if people have questions we wouldn't hesitate to answer them. The people that want to join are also asked to go to church before joining the church where things like this are taught, but I don't think it's something that we dwell on because it's not a part of our practices any more.
Nick 12:49 PM
Henry Jacobs served 8 missions for the church and Joseph Smith 'married" his wife Zina while he was away on a mission for the church. After Joseph's death, Brigham sent Henry on another overseas mission and 'married' (Stole) Henry's wife and kids. Destroying his family life, obviously. Does that seem right or wrong to you?
Francesca 12:49 PM
It sounds like you already know a lot about this though, what are your intentions coming on today?
Nick 12:50 PM
To see if I can get an honest answer out of a Mormon for once, apparently not.
Francesca 12:50 PM
Our answers are always sincere, whether or not they are what people want to hear. We are sorry if you feel otherwise.
Nick 12:51 PM
I was a member for 40 years and NEVER in that time did anybody breath a word about Joseph's addtional wives and they sure as heck never mentioned that some of them were already married. That's a sin.
So is lying. By leaving out that information, you're lying by ommission.
The church lied to 7 generations of my family by not divulging that information. If I had that information I NEVER would have set foot in a Mormon church. And you're still lying by ommission.
Skylar 12:53 PM
The church is making a large effort to be open and transparent about its history. There has been a lot of research that has recently come out.
Nick 12:53 PM
Really? They're making an effort to be transparent? Where do they explain how a man could marry another man's wife?
Skylar 12:53 PM
Have you been to the josephsmithpapers.org site? That is a good place to start
Nick 12:53 PM
Seems to me like that is expressly forbidden by the law of God and the Law of the Priesthood, which is still a law, right?
Skylar 12:54 PM
And you could read the Book of Mormon, too, that talks about it
Nick 12:55 PM
Yes I've been there. Not a word about the Law of the Priesthood (D&C 132;61) which condemns that practice, polyandry, as a sin, adultery in 5 different ways. And you're telling me it's justified? how? Where? According to what law?
The Book of Mormon condemns polygamy as an abomination before God. I was Mormon for 40 yrs.
5th Generation. Pretty sure God never told anybody they could violate the 10 Commandments and the Law of the Priesthood by marrying other men's wives.
Not that I ever saw anyways.
Francesca 12:56 PM
We can see that you are upset. We are really sorry that you feel that you have been lied to. Maybe it would be helpful for you to take some time to learn more. We would really encourage you to remember why you were baptized and hold to the simple principles of the gospel.
Nick 12:58 PM
Are you capable of being honest in answering a Simple yes or no question, were Joseph Smith and Brigham Young wrong to marry their follower's wives?
I was a missionary once. I know I would have been honest in answering that question, given what I know about the gospel and the law of God.
Francesca 12:59 PM
If you were a missionary, then you must know that like most things in this life, there isn't a simple yes or no. Especially when things are taken out of context.
Nick 1:00 PM
THe law of God is quite clear on this issue. It shouldn't depend upon context. He didn't give any loopholes. YOu're being evasive, and not forthcoming, which isn't the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. It's lying by ommision.
Francesca 1:00 PM
Is it lying to say that the 1800s were different than 2017?
Nick 1:01 PM
Its lying to say, "It depends" when I ask you if it was wrong to marry another man's wife.
It's NEVER been legal to marry another man's wife, not in the entire history of Western Civilization.
Not even the Muslims allow men to marry other men's wives and they still practice Polygamy, the last vestage of barabary.
Francesca 1:02 PM
Well, most of the times people weren't legally married, they were sealed to him
which is different.
Nick 1:03 PM
Again, you're not being honest. Yes they were "married" according to geneological records. Yet there is no law by which a man could 'marry' another man's wife. Never was.
Skylar 1:03 PM
I think it's important to understand a couple of things. One is the reason for the sealing. It's so that we--all of us--can be united and live with God in heaven. So it's important that the blessings of the temple are available to everyone.
Nick 1:04 PM
This is why I am no longer Mormon. There is no way to honestly defend the adulterous actions of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, as you've proven once again.
Skylar 1:04 PM
And I'm sorry to hear that you are willing to let this concern get in the way of you experiencing all of the blessings that God has to offer you
Nick 1:05 PM
It's not just this concern. What about not allowing blacks into the temple until 1978. That's racist, given the fact you don't need the priesthood to enter a temple, given the fact that women go every day w/o phood.
How is that in keeping with Christ's main commandment to love our fellow men as ourselves? Is it loving to exclude them from the temple?
Francesca 1:06 PM
Again, you seem to be really upset. Have you prayed about these things before?
Nick 1:07 PM
YEs. The God I know and love commanded us to love our fellow men as ourselves and to not covet our neighbors wife and commit adultery with her.
Francesca 1:07 PM
Have you read the gospeltopics page on this?
Nick 1:07 PM
I can't be a Mormon and support men who violated Christ's main commandments.
I sure can't sing the praises of a guy who (pretend) 'married" his follower's wives.
Skylar 1:08 PM
That is your decision to make.
Nick 1:08 PM
How do you sing the praises of an adulterer in good conscience?
Skylar 1:09 PM
However, especially considering you served a mission, it seems to me that you have forgotten all the times that God's Holy Spirit spoke to you the truthfulness of Jesus Christ as our Savior, the Book of Mormon as another witness of Jesus Christ, etc. I know that Christ lives, I know that His gospel is on the earth today, and that Joseph Smith truly was His prophet.
Francesca 1:18 PM
Are you still there?
Nick 1:18 PM
I didn't forget, I just started listening to reason.
And used my logic to determine that it wasn't God talking to me, it was Group Think, herd mentality and tribalism talking to me about how great Mormonism was, not God.
The God I know and love didn't condone adultery or lying by ommission, which the Mormon church did to convince me and my family to sacrifice our lives for a fraud.
And they're still lying by ommiission. By ommitting the fact that God NEVER commanded anybody to marry another man's wife, because that God would be a hypocrite.
Since that is clearly a violation of the 10 Commandments and every other law every written governing marriage, including the very law Joseph claimed to have recieved straight from God himself, the law of thePriesthood D&C 132:61, do you know that one?
Because you're ignoring it.
Francesca 1:28 PM
Sorry! We were trying to give you a chance to say everything you needed to say
Nick 1:30 PM
You still have not answered my simple question, "Was it wrong of JS and BY to marry their follower's wives?"
Francesca 1:30 PM
Yes, but they didn't do that
Nick 1:30 PM
Even your own church now admits they did.
After 185yrs of lying about it.
But you're still lying.
You started out telling me you'd be honest and youre lying through your teeth.Why?
Skylar 1:32 PM
We were trying to explain that Joseph and Brigham were married to many women for eternity, but not for time. It's different. But we don't want to take up anymore of your time, so hope you have a great rest of your day! Don't forget to go to mormon.org and watch the #lighttheworld video!!
The chat session has ended.
Mormons these days are different from me. They're lying sacks of shit who defend what is clearly adultery and sexual abuse. I NEVER would have defended this shit.