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Posted by: koriwhore ( )
Date: November 29, 2017 02:24AM

http://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2017/11/29/trump-to-meet-with-mormon-leaders-while-in-utah-to-shrink-bears-ears-grand-staircase-monuments/comments/#disqus_thread

I wonder if LDS Inc will put their seal of approval on this lame excuse for a human shrinking our National Treasures and opening them up for development and mining.

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: November 30, 2017 12:42PM

Their seal of approval is anything that makes them look/ feel better; in other words. more dirty back room deals. Nothing surprising.

M@t

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: November 30, 2017 01:52PM

The LDS leadership are meeting with Trump. The Mormon brand is slipping badly, with 800 European church units likely closing this year. You would think that they would want to protect their brand a bit more by not meeting with or having photos taken with Trump. I predict that it will have an effect on their success.

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Posted by: koriwhore ( )
Date: November 30, 2017 02:35PM

L wonder if Lil Tommy will drool all over him?

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Posted by: Phazer ( )
Date: December 01, 2017 01:47PM

It would be great if Trump met the Mormon leader ship and Scientologist leader to deliver notice that tax exemption is being revoked.

That's a pipedream.

A small percentage of UT dislikes Trump or are nevertrumpers.

In any case. The Mormon leadership involved with Church finances are very pleased with the Stock market reaction of a 10 month Trump presidency. Stock are way up!

If taxes go down, the church will have more money in it's pocket.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: November 30, 2017 02:43PM

One hand washes the other and both are in need of a Pontius Pilate type of washing of the hands. Those kinds of stains are hard to get out though.

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Posted by: ptbarnum ( )
Date: November 30, 2017 02:51PM

I wonder if the universe will spring a leak from that much irrationality gathered in one spot.

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Posted by: Phazer ( )
Date: December 01, 2017 01:54PM

An update

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/11/30/trump-to-cut-bears-ears-national-monument-by-85-percent-grand-staircase-escalante-by-half-documents-show/?utm_term=.a832c96b9672

The new proclamations, which also will split up both monuments into several smaller ones, would cut the overall size of Bears Ears from 1.35 million acres to 201,397 acres and Grand Staircase-Escalante from nearly 1.9 million acres to 997,490 acres.

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Posted by: snowball ( )
Date: December 01, 2017 02:10PM

Maybe Trump could get some tips on how to become more like the prophet Joseph Smith...oh wait...he already does that quite well.

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Posted by: ChickenLittle ( )
Date: December 01, 2017 03:06PM

snowball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe Trump could get some tips on how to become
> more like the prophet Joseph Smith...oh wait...he
> already does that quite well.

This is the dumbest thing I've read yet today...

What does he do "quite well" like Joseph Smith? "Marry" children? Other men's wives? Hijack churches?

This ignorant idea of throwing "Trump" at anything to criticize it is stupid.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: December 01, 2017 02:27PM

...and raping National Parks is being done so they can be strip-mined for coal, of all things -- the fuel source on its way to oblivion.

How stupid.

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Posted by: Phazer ( )
Date: December 01, 2017 02:35PM

Mineral resources should be mined. Are we saving it for a rainy day? What was the land before some President decided to make it off limits? Just land.

Besides

I think the Reservation folks were told, go ahead and start making preparations to mine and use your resources. Meaning, the Federal Government is not going to come after you.

Turn that land into a profit source rather than a welfare sucking vampire from tax payers.


2012 data
Total state acreage: 52,696,960
Total federal land acreage: 35,033,603
Federal land percentage of state: 66.5%

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: December 01, 2017 03:24PM

Phazer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mineral resources should be mined. Are we saving
> it for a rainy day? What was the land before some
> President decided to make it off limits? Just
> land.

And after mining it'll be destroyed, worthless, ugly land. That's better than preserving both "getaway" space for people and the priceless paleontological treasures that are there?

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-pol-trump-national-monuments-20171026-htmlstory.html

> I think the Reservation folks were told, go ahead
> and start making preparations to mine and use your
> resources. Meaning, the Federal Government is not
> going to come after you.

Can't imagine what that has to do with this, since it's not a "reservation."

> Turn that land into a profit source rather than a
> welfare sucking vampire from tax payers.

Coal is on the way out. Prices are way down, usage is way down, hardly anybody *wants* it. The "profit" (what little there is) will go to some private company, not the government. And what will be left will be an ugly hole in the ground.
Screw that "profit" -- keep the land the way it is. And there's no "welfare sucking" here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2017 03:36PM by ificouldhietokolob.

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Posted by: Phazer ( )
Date: December 01, 2017 03:50PM

The Dept of Interior can make an informed decision. As to what that land that is reduced from National Monuments I don't know what is in the dirt.

I guess they will find out soon.

There are a lot of places to take pictures. Go there instead.
The Government has been leasing land and selling it to private companies to make a profit a 100 years before you were born.

Some of the land zoneing was to make U.S. less competitive shielded in Conservation Resource management but made U.S. less competitive and impact energy prices.

Maybe they will find oil, or natural gas or whatever. Want a piece of the pie, invest your money.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: December 01, 2017 04:41PM

Phazer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Dept of Interior can make an informed
> decision. As to what that land that is reduced
> from National Monuments I don't know what is in
> the dirt.

The "Dept of Interior" isn't making the decision.
It's a Presidential executive order.
And it's anything but "informed."


> There are a lot of places to take pictures. Go
> there instead.

There are lots of existing coal mines, most of which aren't anywhere near "mined out." Go there to mine instead.

> The Government has been leasing land and selling
> it to private companies to make a profit a 100
> years before you were born.

So?

> Some of the land zoneing was to make U.S. less
> competitive shielded in Conservation Resource
> management but made U.S. less competitive and
> impact energy prices.

That's nonsense.

> Maybe they will find oil, or natural gas or
> whatever. Want a piece of the pie, invest your
> money.

I don't care if they do -- plenty of other places to find oil, natural gas, or whatever. Go mine them there (that's meant to show you that your similar but opposite directive above works both ways -- get it?).
There aren't plenty of places that have what's considered to be the largest collection of fossils anywhere in the world. So leave this one alone.

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Posted by: Jimbo ( )
Date: December 02, 2017 10:02AM

Are you in favor of any land being protected from mining development ?

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: December 01, 2017 05:54PM

Apparently, Orrin Hatch is going to moderate the meeting between The German Guy, The Other Guy, and Trump. Hatch recently called Trump "one of the best presidents [he has] seen in office."

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Posted by: tumwater ( )
Date: December 02, 2017 12:24PM

Check out Robert Kirby's take on Trump's visit the LDS leaders.

Closing line is the absolute condemnation to a hell I've ever read.

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/kirby/2017/12/02/kirby-lets-eavesdrop-on-the-personal-priesthood-interview-mormon-leaders-will-have-with-trump/

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Posted by: readwrite ( )
Date: December 02, 2017 02:09PM

tumwater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Check out Robert Kirby's take on Trump's visit the
> LDS leaders.
>
> Closing line is the absolute condemnation to a
> hell I've ever read.
>
> http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/kirby/2017/12/02/kir
> by-lets-eavesdrop-on-the-personal-priesthood-inter
> view-mormon-leaders-will-have-with-trump/


I was wondering if those two would ever get sealed: Hillary and Donald Rodham Clinton Trump. They could have been running mates! Not his best article but for the last line.

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: December 02, 2017 03:08PM

There will be an action - lots of people - at the state capitol in Salt Lake City on Monday

Find out more below or internet clicks.

Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance
https://suwa.org/issues/bearsears/
On Wednesday, December 28th, 2016, President Obama used his authority under the Antiquities Act to designate Bears Ears National Monument in southeastern Utah.

The President’s action granted a new layer of protection to some of the most spectacular places in southern Utah. There is of course Cedar Mesa, with its incredible canyons running toward the San Juan River. There is White Canyon to the west of Natural Bridges. There are the Bears Ears themselves and the high ponderosa forests of Elk Ridge. To the north there’s Beef Basin and Indian Creek. The new monument withdraws Lockhart Basin, adjacent to Canyonlands National Park, from future energy leasing. Nearly 100,000 archaeological and cultural sites are now covered by the proclamation, including House on Fire and Moon House ruins.

Equally important, the proclamation elevates the voices of the Native American tribes who have ancestral ties to the region. The Bears Ears proposal was led by five Tribes—the Navajo, Hopi, Zuni, Ute Mountain Ute, and Ute Indian Tribes. For the first time in American history, these Tribes will have a greater say in the management of these culturally important lands.

On Wednesday, December 28th, 2016, President Obama used his authority under the Antiquities Act to designate Bears Ears National Monument in southeastern Utah.

The President’s action granted a new layer of protection to some of the most spectacular places in southern Utah. There is of course Cedar Mesa, with its incredible canyons running toward the San Juan River. There is White Canyon to the west of Natural Bridges. There are the Bears Ears themselves and the high ponderosa forests of Elk Ridge. To the north there’s Beef Basin and Indian Creek. The new monument withdraws Lockhart Basin, adjacent to Canyonlands National Park, from future energy leasing. Nearly 100,000 archaeological and cultural sites are now covered by the proclamation, including House on Fire and Moon House ruins.

Equally important, the proclamation elevates the voices of the Native American tribes who have ancestral ties to the region. The Bears Ears proposal was led by five Tribes—the Navajo, Hopi, Zuni, Ute Mountain Ute, and Ute Indian Tribes. For the first time in American history, these Tribes will have a greater say in the management of these culturally important lands.

Unfortunately, Utah politicians are doing all they can to persuade the Trump administration to reduce or even rescind the monument. On June 12th, Secretary of Interior Ryan Zinke issued an interim report recommending that Bears Ears National Monument be significantly reduced in size—a move that simultaneously dishonored Native American Tribes and ignored the input of hundreds of thousands of American citizens.

The public comment period for the Interior Department’s national monument review closed on July 10, 2017. More than 2 million comments favored leaving our national monuments intact.

https://bearsearscoalition.org/action/

https://sierra.secure.force.com/actions/National?actionId=AR0072497
Ryan Zinke -- a Congressman with a lifetime record of voting against the environment 96% of the time according to the League of Conservation Voters -- is now the head of the Department of the Interior. His confirmation jeopardizes the future of our public lands, and the people, wildlife, and economies that depend on them.

Now that our public lands face an uncertain future, many of the places President Obama protected are threatened once again. One of the first efforts by this pro-dirty fuels administration could be to jeopardize or even undo protections for Bears Ears National Monument in southeastern Utah. These lands are sacred to five Native American tribes with ancestral and spiritual ties to these lands. We cannot allow this work to be undone.

Ask your members of Congress to tell Interior Secretary Zinke that Bears Ears National Monument must not be plundered for the financial benefit of the few.

http://bearsears.patagonia.com
Your public lands are under threat. In April, the White House signed an executive order threatening to remove protections or shrink the boundaries of some of our country's most iconic national monuments, including Bears Ears. When he visits Utah next month, the president has said he will follow through on his threat
http://bearsears.patagonia.com/take-action

Native American Rights Fund
https://www.narf.org/cases/protecting-bears-ears-national-monument/
Rising from the center of the southeastern Utah landscape and visible from every direction are twin buttes so distinctive that in each of the native languages of the region their name is the same: Hoon’Naqvut, Shash Jáa, Kwiyagatu Nukavachi, Ansh An Lashokdiwe, or “Bears Ears.” For hundreds of generations, native peoples lived in the surrounding deep sandstone canyons, desert mesas, and meadow mountaintops, which constitute one of the densest and most significant cultural landscapes in the United States. Abundant rock art, ancient cliff dwellings, ceremonial sites, and countless other artifacts provide an extraordinary archaeological and cultural record that is important to us all, but most notably the land is profoundly sacred to many Native American tribes, including the Ute Mountain Ute Tribe, Navajo Nation, Ute Indian Tribe of the Uintah Ouray, Hopi Nation, and Zuni Tribe. – Presidential Proclamation – Establishment of the Bears Ears National Monument (Dec. 28, 2016)

November 10, 2017
http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commentary/2017/11/10/commentary-donald-trump-is-not-welcome-in-utah/
“We, the undersigned residents of the state of Utah, wish to express our strong opposition to the invitation of President Donald Trump to the state of Utah by Senator Orrin Hatch. It has been reported that President Trump will be visiting Utah in December, and by signing this letter, we express our concern that his presence in our home will disgrace and embarrass the state of Utah, and will add unnecessary fuel to the fire of an issue that is very personal for so many Utahns across the state.
...
President Trump has proven hostile toward native and indigenous populations, LGBTQ+ communities, communities of color, religious minorities, disabled and chronically ill communities, women, refugees, immigrants, and many more underserved and marginalized groups. Our signatures below indicate that we will stand shoulder to shoulder as members and allies of these communities in opposition to the hatred and bigotry of the current administration.

National Geographic
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/12/leaked-maps-trump-shrinks-bears-ears-grand-staircase-escalante-national-monuments-spd/
The brewing legal fight will likely reach the Supreme Court. The court will be asked to determine if the 1906 Antiquities Act, which grants the president power to create monuments, also grants presidential authority to abolish or reduce monuments. An opinion authored by President Franklin Roosevelt’s attorney general argued in 1938 that presidents have no such power to abolish monuments. That position has been accepted by all of Roosevelt’s successors until now.
...
Trump’s decision also creates several other thorny legal and political issues regarding congressional powers and management of federal lands whose designation may change, says Robert Keiter, a University of Utah law professor and director of its Wallace Stegner Center of Land Resources and the Environment.

“When Congress adopted the Federal Land & Policy Management Act in 1976, it appeared to reserve to itself the power to modify or revoke national monument designations, which provides a powerful legal argument for monument supporters in any legal challenge to the president’s actions,” Keiter says.
In the case of Grand Staircase Escalante, Congress also has already adjusted its boundaries and written the changes into law.
...
“Because Congress approved a massive land exchange with the state of Utah following designation of the Grand Staircase Escalante National Monument, it has essentially ratified the boundaries of that monument, and the president does not have authority to override this congressional action, given that Article IV of the Constitution grants Congress—not the president—broad authority over the public lands.”

If Trump’s changes withstand a court challenge, then there’s the practical matter of managing federal land.
“The President’s monument reduction action invites future presidents to take similar actions to any monument they might dislike, and it invites other presidents to reverse these actions and reinstate the original boundaries, creating extraordinary uncertainty for public land managers and users,” Keiter says. “In short, this would amount to an intolerable situation for everyone.”

This story was updated at 7 pm on December 1, 2017, with info from Robert Keiter and additional background.

Listen to KRCL 90.9 FM in Salt Lake City (and worldwide) on the web at www.krcl.org or app for music and local events. Don't forget SUWA.

M@t

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