There is a pretty big difference between the Archbishop of Canterbury and Donald Trump regardless if what you think about religion.Besides, you totally missed the point about the hypocrisy of some Christians, such as my niece, voting for a man who seems to be against everything Jesus taught. You know, stuff about loving your neighbor,helping the poor, healing the sick, compassion,not to mention not grabbing women by their privates.Okay, I.know Jesus didnt address that issue, but I doubt he supported it.
bona dea Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > There is a pretty big difference between the > Archbishop of Canterbury and Donald Trump...
One is a delusional, narcissistic, wealthy, power-hungry leader whose institutional wealth came from taking advantage of mostly poor workers...and the other is president of the US?
Whatever. The archbishop hardly lives in Trump's style. Neither do most presidents. He also isnt famous for grabbing women by their private parts, walking in the dressing rooms of teenagers, serial adultery, and making suggestive remarks about his own daughter. He isnt trying to screw people out of health care or Social Security to fund a tax break for the rich. Even you should be able to see a difference.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2017 08:00PM by bona dea.
You are missing the point.It isnt all about wealth. The archbishop is wealthy,yes, but does he have a string of ex wives, mistresses, victims accusing him of sexual assault, a daughter he lusts after? Does he support numerous policies that will hurt the poor and sick? Is he a racist and misogynist? If so, please provide references.I am not supporting the archbishop and.I.am not that familiar with him,but he is hardly as bad as Donald Trump and that is point. He also made a damn good point about the hyocrisy of Christains voting for Trumpty Dumpty.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2017 08:12PM by bona dea.
And, pray tell, what has the archbishop done which merits such disdain. Please provide references. I understand he is rich and religious, but what horrid things as he done that make him so bad?
bona dea Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > And, pray tell, what has the archbishop done which > merits such disdain. Please provide references. I > understand he is rich and religious, but what > horrid things as he done that make him so bad?
What has he done to make him good? Please provide references.
Hmm,I am guessing you cant find anything. I just did some reading on him and couldnt find anythingb awful . His policies are fairly proogressive from what I read. He supports help for refugees, children and ordination of women for starts. I am sure there are things I could find that I wouldnt like if I cared to research further, but I am not going to hate on him because he is religious. That seems to be what youn are doing.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2017 08:43PM by bona dea.
bona dea Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hmm,I am guessing you cant find anything.
Bad guess.
Lots of criticism over his hypocrisy in dealing with Anglican church child abuse victims, and his participation in cover-ups. Blame for him denying promised payments to child abuse victims. Much more.
> ...but I am not > going to hate on him because he is religious. That > seems to be what youn are doing.
Wrong again. I just don't give him any 'good' points for being a relative of peerage who worked his way politically through a wealthy church system to become a bishop and 'lord,' in control of great wealth and with a fair amount of influence in UK politics, none of which are based on his expertise in any such matters, but on his 'correct beliefs,' his family connections, and his savvy in church politics. His opinions don't merit any more consideration than the average Brit on the street, as far as I'm concerned.
I think you are going to hate on any and all religious leaders. You have a history of just that. I have never seen you post anything positive about any religious leader-ever and you go to great lengths to criticize everything they do and say. I will leave it at that. You might want to look at your biases.
bona dea Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > .....not to mention not grabbing women > by their privates.Okay, I.know Jesus didnt address > that issue, but I doubt he supported it.
bona dea, you made a funny! Love it!
...and never doubt your doubts :)
He did talk about [glass houses] and such, and had anyone been grabbing private parts instead of stones, it's possible it was cut from the final draft.
No One understands why anyone with a functioning neurology would support Donald Trump. I believe he is an atheist. I do not know one atheist who supports him or voted for him. He is using Evangelicals to pad his pockets. Perhaps they deserve the tax HIKE they are going to get? Perhaps they deserve the amoral shithead they voted for? Perhaps the chickens are coming home to roost? Perhaps...
IMO, they (generic Christians- add your preferred definition of evangelicals and other Christians here) justify supporting Trump because he pays them back by appointing judges that limit women's reproductive rights and gay rights wherever possible.
I hear from random Christians I work with that they must pick the greater good. Voting for a teen predator is OK if it means more support of religion, Bible, gun rights, anti-abortion and anti-gay initiatives. Trump and Moore are temporary vehicles to further more important Biblical (cherry picked) values.
They will hold their nose and support Trump because he is more likely to give them judges that hate or support the same things they do.
I don't know why the Archbishop can't see that Christians support Trump for the same reason they might support Christianity: Maybe they are credulous and believe regardless of facts. Or maybe they put up with some warts (like creepy priests) to get the benefits they think are important.
Christians can't win. Sometimes they end up being hypocrites in one direction or the other when it comes to things they claim are Christian values.
The Anglican church doesnt have the same views on abortion and other issues as right wing American Christians.Britain isnt the US and the archbishop isnt an right wing evangelical.If he doesnt get it, that is why. I do think you are right about the Christians in the Bible belt. It is all about abortion and gays. Interesting that Jesus never mentioned either. However, he did discuss plenty of other things which they seem to completely ignore and that is my issue with them.If you are going to claim to be Christian, you shouldnt be taking health care and food from the poor and sick while worrying so much about something Jesus never took a stand om. I guess they can read his mind now.
As I know many of the so-called Christians who voted for Darth Cheddar, I also know their sole rationale in voting for him was the issue of abortion. Period. Plain and simple.
To far too many on the religious right, any talk of morality or values comes down to having the correct stance on abortion and marriage equality. Actual conduct, or treatment of people is a purely secondary consideration, if ever considered at all.
Church of England--as involved in human trafficking, sex slavery and pedophilia as the RCC. AofC is as guilty as pope Francis.
And this AofC should know the history of Christian Zionism, which was hatched in London and supported fully by the Crown and parliament. Of course Christian Zionists will support Trump, he is their servant in fully supporting everything Netanyahu wants.
The conversation here confirms what most religious people probably already know. Those that disagree with them actually have very little genuine curiosity about why they may or may not have voted for or against a candidate.
It's usually just a tired exercise in they voted for Trump because he resonates with the fact that they're all bigots, homophobes, sexist, racist, xenophobes, etc. etc. ad nauseam.
Honestly, some of the voters likely voted for Trump mostly because the other side (some of which is seen here) is arrogant, rude, and unconcerned about meaningful dialogue. They were less enthused with Trump than they were completely alienated by the faction that opposed him.
If most American Christians weren't complete hypocrites, maybe they'd be better treated. But nooooooooooooooo, they only consider themselves "persecuted." Ass.
Please Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If most American Christians weren't complete > hypocrites, maybe they'd be better treated. But > nooooooooooooooo, they only consider themselves > "persecuted." Ass.
Can you give me a breakdown on your analysis here? Exactly how many Christians in your dataset were shown to be "complete hypocrites" in order to tip the balance to "most?" How large was your sample, and how did you collect it? And what specific metric did you apply to determine which subset considered themselves to be "persecuted?"
And exactly why did you feel the need to call me an "ass?" Is this your way of engaging in meaningful dialogue? Or is it your admission that you are completely bankrupt intellectually, and your frustration is best vented by name calling--since you cannot offer a meaningful response?
And are you able to understand why any group of clear thinking individuals would never want to associate with a person of your caliber and inferior intellect? Is it possible they would choose to vote for any human other than one you and your ilk promote as favored?
My problem is I cant see Hillary as worse than Trump in any way whatsoever-unless you believe she runs a sex slave ring out of the basement of a pizza parlor or some such nonsense.Even if Hillary is guilty of the stuff she has been accused of,minus the sex slave nonsense or murdering Vince Foster-neither of which is at all believable, she is still better than Trump
bona dea Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > My problem is I cant see Hillary as worse than > Trump in any way whatsoever
The point here is, are you able to understand how anyone can disagree with you and vote for Trump without forcing them into some box that convicts them of being a bigot, homophobe, sexist, etc ....?
I find there are precious few who oppose Trump who can offer a cogent explanation why anyone voted for him without insisting they kill kittens as a hobby when they're not looking for the next lynching to attend.
Americans voted for someone with the 'best' American agenda/plan!
Hillary had a great plan for Muslims, invaders, LGBT, etc. but Americans realized the Democrats are weak on supporting 'Americans'! Until that changes don't expect any great resurgence in Democrats!
This was not a 'popularity contest' like high school!
Maybe you are uninformed on what Hillary stands for,what she has done and more importantly, what she hasnt done.Compare that with Trump and I dont see any choice.Even if I were totally against abortion and/or gay rights I would still vote for Hillary. At least she knows what she is doing. Trump,in addition to his other sins,hasnt a clue.He is an incompetant man with the disposition of a child. Go ahead and explain it to me, but I really dont think I will ever get how a Christian or anyone elae could vote for that idiot if he he or she is informed. I understand one issue voting and I think that is why you, my niece and many others voted for him, but no one issue is important enough to turn the government over to someone that dishoneest,unstable and incompetant.That is what I do not get. If God can work through Trp, he can work through Hillary and there are plenty of issues besides abortion which Jesus actually took a stand on and which Teump.is against. Why.is abortion the one issue that you think is so important that you will vote for someone like Trump? I.get being against abortion, but I.dont get ignoring every thing else Trump.is doing.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2017 11:30PM by bona dea.