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Posted by: Rodney anonymous ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 12:32PM

I’m a sporadic poster here needing to 1) rant and 2) vent a little more anonymously.


I just found out that my wife is pregnant with child number x. This is already x + 1 too many. She would always maintain that she felt that there are more spirits that are destined to her while I maintained that I feel we are done. She would not do birth control, or condoms and would talk me out of me getting a vasectomy. I’m in my early 50’s and she is in late 40’s and she begged me not to get it done as she thinks there are health risks with it. My anger is with me that we are expecting. Listening to her and ignoring my own judgement is where my anger comes from. We are already so busy with the other x number of kids and taking care of their development that I will miss out on the stage of life they are in. One feeling that has me concerned is that I have no sexual interest in my wife. She wanted to be intimate soon after taking the pregnancy test, and I just could not do it. We tried talking about it, and she cannot understand that I would not be ok with it. We discussed this many many times. Our only preventative method was the pull out method and it failed again. She would not have sex any other way. Damnit!!! I’m pissed.

This ties me to another several years of lying to everyone about the church. Last night I told her that I don’t want the kid blessed, baptized or what ever official ordinance. I could not prevent church attendance, but this kid will know where I stand on the god damned church. I’m not lying for another 18 years, starting the clock over again. I’ll be almost 70 when this one will be first eligible to leave the house. I feel like my fucking life is over. Or anything meaningful for me is done for. If both of us wanted this, that is one thing, but I was very clear with her that I am ready to live for me. I did not have interest in finding the energy for this.

I even ponderize divorce, but the quantity of children makes me think I’ll get screwed out of my own labor. I will take care of my children, but at this stage of the game, I’m just screwed!!!

God Damnit!!! It is me that got me here. I guess I’m just a fucking lousy chess player.

Thanks for listening.

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Posted by: librarian ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 12:38PM

Now just pponder on how a wife feels after each unwanted pregnancy because birth control is not a fit and the hubby won't use condoms. Sometimes it takes a divorce and good luck with the rest of your life.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 12:39PM

I wish I had an easy answer for you. You deserve better.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 12:55PM

I thought my wife and I were done with "Y," in our case, 3. I was just turning 50 when surprise package #4 arrived, and it worked out fine for us. The older siblings (B9,G7,B5) were delighted to help, starting with diapering in infancy, on to reading and mentoring her as she got older, especially our daughter, who was delighted to have a sister. They're all adults now, and get along fine, even though they have gone their own ways (geographically, vocationally, politically, religiously).

Our dynamics are different in many ways. For one thing, my wife and I are on the same page religiously. I first saw nothing but challenges and problems, but everything worked out. Younger parents have more energy, but us oldsters have more wisdom, experience, and patience.

Thought to share with your wife: further pregnancies at her age increase the risk of birth defects and Downes Syndrome. Does she want to risk a defective vessel for a (ahem, ulp!) "worthy spirit" in the Preexistence?"

Go ahead and rant (non-critical, here), but I'm sure you'll settle down, love the child, do right by him, and he'll turn out better than you expect right now. Hope things work out for you, and I am of some use and encouragement.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 12:57PM

>>Younger parents have more energy, but us oldsters have more wisdom, experience, and patience.

Yes, very true. It's a tradeoff. I had older parents, and overall I thought it was a good thing.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: November 27, 2017 05:09PM

The worst part of this, IMHO, is that it wasn't a joint decision, and that you feel manipulated. And the fact is, you were.

Just FYI, after 2 kids and being "done," my wife and I had a "surprise" pregnancy when I was 55 and she 46. This wasn't really similar to your situation -- we were using birth control, and got hit with the 1% (most forms say something like 99% effective, it's the 1% that'll get ya).

We discussed our options together. We did genetic issue testing together. We decided together to go forward.

That was 2 1/2 years ago. Our new little girl is the delight of my old life. She runs to hug me every day when I come home from work. She keeps me young. I now couldn't imagine life without her.

So I hope you can keep in mind that, despite the manipulation and non-communication and nonsense your wife pulled (and that you gave into) to get you into this, there *is* a child that will come from it. One that will depend on you and need you -- and who will love you the rest of your life (assuming you're a decent dad). It's not all "take" -- kids give, too.

So get the vasectomy. Tell your wife you're doing it, and do it. And do things for yourself -- but love and care for this new kid like all the others, and that investment of time and caring will pay you back in spades.

Good luck.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: November 27, 2017 05:20PM

Hie: I think you captured exactly the feelings expressed by the OP. Feeling manipulated, etc. It helps for someone just to "hear" what the person with a problem is saying.

It's lovely how you described life with your unexpected little girl. The OP's issue, it seems clear, is with his wife not hearing him and/or ignoring his half of the decision-making process and not with the fact of the new life coming (who could turn out to be the next great medical researcher or space explorer or ... sky's the limit potentially). Or maybe he is already a Mormon dad of 11 kids and yeah, that could be a big part of his reaction too. (I hope neither is the case though, 11 children already, or not wanting the kid at all even though it's now on the way).

It's always good to hear a happy ending though. Kids do have a way of stealing your heart.

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Posted by: commongentile ( )
Date: November 27, 2017 09:03PM

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just FYI, after 2 kids and being "done," my wife
> and I had a "surprise" pregnancy when I was 55 and
> she 46.

Wow, Brother Kolob, you were even older than my dad was when I was born. He was 49 and my two brothers were 21 and 22 years older than I. Anyway, I am now 68 and my remaining brother is 90.

It has been said that just by having been born, one has won the lottery that has greater odds than any other. And my birth was the result of an unplanned pregnancy. My mother then died when I was two years old, and her sister and husband -- my aunt and uncle -- approached my dad and asked him to give me to them to raise since they were unable to have children. He told them that I was his son and he was going to raise me himself, which didn't make them happy. Then when I was four, dad remarried and he and my stepmother proceeded to raise me together and did their best to give me a good childhood and adolescence. My dad and birth mother didn't have health insurance and the expenses of her last illness placed him in a position of feeling he needed to work to the end of his life, when he died suddenly at age 81. I don't really know what he thought of having a child later in life, but I always felt love and support from him.

I will say that even though I was a "surprise", I am very happy to be here and grateful to my parents for giving me a shot at life!

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 12:56PM

I'm sorry. I would strongly advise you to go ahead and get the vasectomy. And use a condom until that happens. Also, make sure that your wife gets top-notch prenatal care. In her late 40s, she will likely be considered a high-risk pregnancy.

I realize that you are not looking forward to having another child, but for the child's sake, be open to him or her. My dad had me when he was 50, and I think my parents overall enjoyed the experience. I was a low-maintenance child, and was taught from an early age to amuse myself and that dad needed his "quiet time."

Best wishes moving forward.

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Posted by: Rodney Anonymous ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 01:08PM

Thanks for the responses. I don’t have any expectation of what I deserve.

The thing with the condom is that she will not let me use them. It is the Lord’s way or .... the Lord’s way. The only thing I have is the pullout method.

If we were on the same page philosophically I would be a little more accepting, or have a better attitude. The others are ok with it, but I don’t ant to rely heavily on them. They have things going on. I don’t want to take advantage of them as much as my wife says they will help.

She is getting all the help she fells inspired to get. I’m not hindering her care.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 04:01PM

You did it her way for years and as a result you're in an untenable situation. So she's had her turn for years. Now, you get a similar time to use your judgment. That means you get a vasectomy or use two reliable forms of birth control because you feel the two of you are not of an age and situation for more children. You'll do your best with the ones you have and the one on the way, but that's all anyone can expect or demand of you. You're a concerned for her health and the baby's as you are your own.

The above seems fair to me. I think I'd tell her and say your word is now final.

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Posted by: jane ( )
Date: November 27, 2017 07:44PM

It's your body. Get a vasectomy.

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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: November 29, 2017 04:44AM

I was in a different situation. Newly divorced at age 39, had one son, the joy of my life, but I knew I did not want or need any more. I got my tubes tied.

A couple of years later, I met the love of my life. He already had kids, and did not want any more, so he was delighted that I had already taken care of things.

His mother, a very down-to-Earth Jackmo, was delighted. "Between the two of you," she said, "you don't NEED any more!"

I reassured her, "No worries. We won't make you a grandma again, I promise!"

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 05:22PM

Looked at in another way, having a child should be a shared intention.

I agree with Cheryl.

Tom in Paris

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Posted by: GC ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 05:58PM

Easy for me to say, but at this point, I'd say vasectomy or no more sex.

Children are great, but exhausting, and you can't risk any more.

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Posted by: AnonDad ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 06:20PM

I feel your anger. My wife stopped taking the pill, without telling me, so we could have another child. It ruined our sex life because I couldn’t trust her anymore. None of this was my child’s fault. I contemplated divorce, too. But I figured I’d be fucked by the courts for bailing on a newborn.

The child is awesome! We have a great relationship. It wasn’t her fault that her mother lied! Don’t take your anger out on an innocent kid who didn’t ask to be born.

My sex life is forever ruined. I still can’t orgasm inside for fear of another kid. Get the vasectomy ASAP. Get family counseling right away to see if you want to continue with the fucked up marriage.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 06:34PM

Regarding a vasectomy, there is always the expression, "It is sometimes better to ask forgiveness than permission."

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: November 26, 2017 06:52PM

It could be a diversion by your wife to cite concerns about vasectomy risks as a reason for you not to have one. Perhaps it could help (although it's too late this time) to show her a list of potential complications from a respected source (i.e. look up Mayo Clinic online).

Then compare the risks of pregnancy in older women (to both mother and fetus), again from a reliable source. These risks would seem to be obviously greater than with vasectomy, which is a brief, simple outpatient procedure not known to cause unacceptable risks.

So of the two of you, it is your wife who is taking the greater (and much longer and more challenging) risk by multiple pregnancies, especially in her waning childbearing years.

If risk is the only consideration it would make sense to go with the lesser one.

However, common sense is not usually the prevailing driver of the desire to have babies. Still, it may be instructive to lay out for her her excuse of risk to you of a minor surgical procedure next to hers of a nine-month odyssey and the trials of childbirth, especially at her age. She could actually not have thought it through logically. And it may just be an excuse because she does, as you say, want to keep getting pregnant. At least she could be honest about that, you'd hope.

Much more difficult to overcome is the religious belief in Mormonism that innumerable spirit babies are desperately waiting for a human vessel to give them earthly life. My one Mormon friend was intense about this too. She already had four sons, the oldest a teen while the last was still pre-school. She talked a lot about all those spirit children "still waiting". It made me tired just to calculate how many years some Mormon women spend being pregnant and raising children.

Again, an appeal to reason in this situation is not likely to result in an easy change of mind.

You are facing the unwelcome prospect, as this point in your life, of another child to feed and raise. Perhaps too you are shocked, even outraged, at your wife's stubborn persistence to do only what she wants instead of accepting that something this major in your lives should be a shared decision, especially now and especially given your ages. I don't really know how you combat her single-minded intention, given this aspect of her religious belief (spirits waiting for bodies). (That sounds creepy to nevermos, btw).

Perhaps you could now prevail upon her to agree that this is absolutely the last child. Maybe an agreement from her on that could at least stem your possible panic over seeing no end to this - what if she wants to not stop until menopause? (Yikes!) Too, if her pregnancy this time is more difficult, and/or the delivery is, maybe she will decide herself it's the last time (or maybe her doctor might suggest or recommend that).

I agree with the others who have mentioned no sex without reliable birth control. I don't know, though, how much that would affect your wife's choices in future. For now, while she is pregnant, it's not even an issue.

You may want to think of how to try and bring yourself down off the chandelier, for your own physical and mental health. I'm sure this must be utterly frustrating, anger-inducing, depressing even. Maybe it feels like calamity thinking of the next 20 years of child-raising still rather than gradually gaining relative freedom as your current youngest children finally set out on their own at some point. When I have a problem and I see/feel only the big picture I can easily get feeling overwhelmed. Usually, if I break it down into smaller bits I can cope, such as not focusing too far down the road at first but mostly looking at what I need to do this day, this week, this month - a step at a time as they say - rather than feeling the weight of a whole big issue all at once, which can be paralyzing.

So maybe can you think about your five top issues around this and address them, in your own mind but also with your wife as/when/if appropriate, and then go from there? It might help you to feel somewhat more in control. Your wife's approach, understandably, seems to have taken that away from you and feeling like you've lost control of your own life and choices can be panic-inducing. Maybe think about what you can do now, then down the road, and into the future. (As I said, if I chop problems up into smaller pieces like that I can better handle them and see and achieve the best solutions. It's hard though when your solutions may depend on other people).

I hope you can resolve this, although obviously it's major. I hope it helps to talk to fellow RfMers, many of whom have been there, done that. Many have excellent comments and advice to give. And they care, even though it's mostly all only in cyberspace.

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Posted by: scmd ( )
Date: November 27, 2017 12:20AM

It so angers me when either party in a relationship makes a deliberate unilateral choice to conceive a child without the express agreement of the other party, whether it be with singles in casual relationships or with long-standing married couples or with anyone in between. Raising a child, if done properly, is about as large a commitment as a person can make, and to take someone else's choice away in the matter is immoral.

That being said, others are right that it's not the baby's fault, and he or she deserves all that every child deserves. Still, you have the right to do whatever is medically necessary to your own body to ensure that this child is the very last one you co-produce.

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Posted by: Rodney Anonymous ( )
Date: November 27, 2017 02:31PM

All I appreciate your responses. The immediate need to neutralize myself is abated for the next few months, but yea...It newest to happen with or without her agreement on the subject. I maintain that the blame is mine. I knew where she was, she knew where I stood on the subject. The downside risk was all mine. It was all upside for her. I remember when we were intimate that she encouraged me to finish inside as she assured me she was safe. That is the only part where I feel that I can very specifically be really angry at her, but there is still in the heat of the moment stuff that causes me to shoulder the burden.

I’ve always had the perspective that it is not a child’s fault and would never take anything out on the innocent parties. Child number X was another child I did not want to have. I do the best I can with that one to show love and care, etc. It has no idea and will never have any idea that I was not interested in it being born. Wife asked me a few months ago if my life would be complete with out that child in it, and I can still answer that it would be complete. As great as the child is, I do not require it for my own completeness or happiness. I sound like such an asshole, but I’m level headed about my responsibilities.


The other aspect to all this is that my wife is terribly irresponsible. She stays home with the kids and does little to no house maintenance — i.e. cleaning. She stays up all night watching Netflix or reading. She typically goes to bed an hour before I get up for work. I do the cooking. I do most of the dishes and 50% of the laundry. I have one of those houses where the inside has tiny pathways to other rooms. Clutter is everywhere. One day I plan to break a hip as I navigate my house. I’m too tired or out of daylight to tend to things outside, so that is neglected as well. I almost wonder, and do not know how to get an honest answer from her if I were to ask, but I wonder if another child is her excuse to be so lazy or her reason to be too “busy” with another baby to be responsible. The other kids at home get up and get themselves to school, as she is usually too tired from going to be so late.

I can see there is a greater problem and disconnect in my marriage than the baby issue.

She brings up the spirits needing Mormon bodies that need to be on earth. I call the BS on it. It still leads to discussions about why I do not plan to authorize the baby to be officially Mormon until sometime nearing adulthood for the little creature. She cannot find that there is any harm that comes from Mormonism. Saving the little one from Mormonism will be the next mission. When I was faithful we thought that Mormonism was the way to raise kids. I’m not veering on that for the ones that started that way. They see I don’t support the org or say anything about it. The one born post me Mormonism will be the catalyst for some fireworks which I don’t know where it will go.

Again thanks for your thoughts. There is so much that relates and affects our individual circumstances which is difficult to enumerate and paint a balanced picture of my circumstance here. I don’t mean to be unfair to my wife. I don’t get any acknowledgement of my thoughts or desires on the subject. She is what I would call relentless in pursuit of her desires. I would count myself as the compromiser.

I’m sort of joking when I say this, and I’m kind of laughing... but I think I’ll go cry now.

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Posted by: Elyse ( )
Date: November 27, 2017 02:42PM

Good grief, go down to the clinic and get a vasectomy.

The situation you describe is nuts.
Given the circumstances, most guys would have packed their bags a long time ago.

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Posted by: Mom anon ( )
Date: November 27, 2017 04:34PM

Had son #5 at age 32 after tubal ligation. I thought my life was ruined. I had surgery done over after he was born.

We just returned to CA from UT last night from visiting all of them.

This son is the one who called us every hour of the trip to check on us.

Another note: At age 5, he scored in the top 1/2 percentile nationwide in math.

Please don’t be mad at your wife. This may turn out better than you ever imagined.

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Posted by: scmd ( )
Date: November 27, 2017 05:14PM

Mom anon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Had son #5 at age 32 after tubal ligation. I
> thought my life was ruined. I had surgery done
> over after he was born.
>
> We just returned to CA from UT last night from
> visiting all of them.
>
> This son is the one who called us every hour of
> the trip to check on us.
>
> Another note: At age 5, he scored in the top 1/2
> percentile nationwide in math.
>
> Please don’t be mad at your wife. This may turn
> out better than you ever imagined.

I still think you have every right to be angry with your wife. Her case isn't like that of Mom anon who had a rare failed tubal ligation. On the other hand, the child could discover a permanent prevention for cystic fibrosis or may be instrumental in bringing about world peace. Your wife screwed you over, but the child is as every bit precious as any innocent baby ever was.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: November 27, 2017 07:34PM

I agree with others. Just go get the vasectomy. Don't even ask. If she wants to divorce you over it, that's her loss. She doesn't even clean, but she wants another child?????

I did have a friend who had another 2 children so she didn't have to get a job as her husband wanted her to.

Yes, the courts will take most of your money if you divorce her. The courts favor the mother usually. It isn't fair. I'm a female. I was a single mother for over 10 years. They just turned 32 (twins). I refused to take alimony and got little help with the children. He is in their lives now. (He wasn't much of a father for a while, but he and I are now good friends, too.)

I'd get the vasectomy and take a chance she'll divorce you. My bet is she won't.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2017 07:36PM by cl2.

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Posted by: Chicken N. Backpacks ( )
Date: November 27, 2017 08:45PM

If it's a girl, make time to play dinosaurs and dolls, if it's a boy, make time to play dinosaurs and build build a model railroad or airplanes--or perhaps the other way around. It'll help keep you young.


On the other hand,and judging from your home's appearance, I would be sorely tempted to tell my wife "No more Netflix, or sex, until you start acting like this household is something you need to clean up and care of, too."

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Posted by: scmd ( )
Date: November 28, 2017 03:49AM

Chicken N. Backpacks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If it's a girl, make time to play dinosaurs and
> dolls, if it's a boy, make time to play dinosaurs
> and build build a model railroad or airplanes--or
> perhaps the other way around. It'll help keep you
> young.
>
>
> On the other hand,and judging from your home's
> appearance, I would be sorely tempted to tell my
> wife "No more Netflix, or sex, until you start
> acting like this household is something you need
> to clean up and care of, too."


Great advice!

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Posted by: Free Man ( )
Date: November 27, 2017 09:42PM

I'm confused. You have the priesthood and are part of the patriarchy, with unlimited power to control your wife.

Simply command her to cook, clean, or whatever you want, and she will comply.

Yeah, right. Stories like these expose who's really in charge. Using the church and the courts to control you.

You might join the MeToo movement. You would like to get a vasectomy, and you would like to divorce her, but you are too afraid.

Difference is, you're a dude, and dudes are supposed to just man up, grow a pair, quit whining, be a good dad, etc, etc.

Welcome to reality.

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Posted by: brigidbarnes ( )
Date: November 27, 2017 11:04PM

When I was about eleven or twelve, My mother related to me that she and my father had not wanted to have any more children after their two, which were a boy and a girl. But then they found out that the boy was mentally retarded, so they decided that having a third child could work out--IF it was a boy. My mother emphasized that they had so very much wanted it to be a boy.

Well, I was not a boy! My mother was 27, and my father was 33. They still had plenty of years ahead of them, so why did they resent me? They had had a boy's name picked out, so set were they on that boy. My mother even told me the name I was supposed to have. I have no baby pictures, unlike my brother and sister. They were not proud and therefore had never snapped one.

When I look back now, I can see that I was skimped on. Fewer gifts and clothes, no dental care, more abuse that nobody cared about or tried to protect. My father urged me not to fix my hair or use make-up, and tried to get me to act like a boy.

Many years later, at the age of 35, I had an unexpected pregnancy when I thought I was done. Unlike my mother, I had health issues that would make having and raising a child difficult. the baby was born with health issues and had to be hospitalized for a while. My husband, 46, rushed out to get a vasectomy. I had tried to ensure that this child never know that we had not wanted more children. Unfortunately, my daughter had overheard my husband and me moaning about not being able to cope with another child (yet somehow we did). When he was older, she told him! I had to white-lie my way out of it, so my youngest child would not feel bad.

I believe that most parents try not to ever let a last, unplanned child know that they were originally unwanted. But beware of an older child snitching! It can be difficult to not be over-heard.

I no longer believe in any pre-existence, where some children are born with a "past" unfavorable, while others are "choice" and more valiant. It is cruel that the LDS church ever taught such things.

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Posted by: scmd ( )
Date: November 28, 2017 03:54AM

brigidbarnes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I was about eleven or twelve, My mother
> related to me that she and my father had not
> wanted to have any more children after their two,
> which were a boy and a girl. But then they found
> out that the boy was mentally retarded, so they
> decided that having a third child could work
> out--IF it was a boy. My mother emphasized that
> they had so very much wanted it to be a boy.
>
> Well, I was not a boy! My mother was 27, and my
> father was 33. They still had plenty of years
> ahead of them, so why did they resent me? They had
> had a boy's name picked out, so set were they on
> that boy. My mother even told me the name I was
> supposed to have. I have no baby pictures, unlike
> my brother and sister. They were not proud and
> therefore had never snapped one.
>
> When I look back now, I can see that I was skimped
> on. Fewer gifts and clothes, no dental care, more
> abuse that nobody cared about or tried to protect.
> My father urged me not to fix my hair or use
> make-up, and tried to get me to act like a boy.
>
> Many years later, at the age of 35, I had an
> unexpected pregnancy when I thought I was done.
> Unlike my mother, I had health issues that would
> make having and raising a child difficult. the
> baby was born with health issues and had to be
> hospitalized for a while. My husband, 46, rushed
> out to get a vasectomy. I had tried to ensure that
> this child never know that we had not wanted more
> children. Unfortunately, my daughter had overheard
> my husband and me moaning about not being able to
> cope with another child (yet somehow we did). When
> he was older, she told him! I had to white-lie my
> way out of it, so my youngest child would not feel
> bad.
>
> I believe that most parents try not to ever let a
> last, unplanned child know that they were
> originally unwanted. But beware of an older child
> snitching! It can be difficult to not be
> over-heard.
>
> I no longer believe in any pre-existence, where
> some children are born with a "past" unfavorable,
> while others are "choice" and more valiant. It is
> cruel that the LDS church ever taught such things.

Brigid, don't be too hard on yourself. We all have those brief "What have we done to ourselves?" times. It's not what was said, especially when an overheard conversation was intended to be private, that really matters. It's what you did for the child for his entire life that counts.

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Posted by: brigidbarnes ( )
Date: November 28, 2017 07:10PM

This makes me feel better.

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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: November 28, 2017 09:19PM

I gain a lot of wisdom from threads like these. No kids but its good to know certain things.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: November 28, 2017 11:49PM

Rodney,

I agree with those who suggest that you get a vasectomy, unilaterally. She hasn't played fair with you.

Turn on the time/date stamp on your camera and take pictures of the clutter. Do this periodically, and upload them into cloud storage. They'll come in handy for a number of legal, counseling, and arbitration possibilities.

FreeMan, above, made a sarcastic reference to your purported priesthood. I think, actually, you might try working hat angle, as head-of-house, if not "priesthood." Tell her she's had her way with the pregnancies, but you have to keep order in the house.

Set up to-do lists, and insist that she get a certain minimum number of things organized and cleaned. Start going through the clutter, and separate things out for donation and trash, and do it. Buy cheap plastic shelves and bins, and give each child assigned storage. If it's not put in place, take it away for a day (or two or three).

Consider getting her bishop or RS president to come in and look over the situation, and tell them you need help. (Tell them you can't be "spiritual" with all this conflict and mess in your life.) A combination of shaming her and volunteer help might make a difference. And consider canceling cable, internet, and Netflix as well, with the proviso that they can come back when the household is running according to LDS (purported) ideals.

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Posted by: gemini ( )
Date: November 29, 2017 01:08PM

This might be a really dumb question. Could you get a vasectomy on your own without your wife knowing? I do not know the recovery time or how much discomfort a man has after this procedure.

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