What are the best ways to set boundaries with a narcissist female neighbor? I can't just ignore her. My husband works for her husband and we are in some of the same volunteer groups. She ripped me a new one the other day based on faulty info and then acted like nothing had happened that night at a cocktail party. Seriously, nobody has ever talked to me that way!! I am livid and weeks have passed. Now I am upset with myself and I can't stop fearing her next attack. I'm not the only one she's doing this to. Last week she started handing out Bible study books called "Women Who Wound" to another lady she attacked. You all have the best advice so I thought I would ask here. Any suggestions?

Ugg. This is a pickle. Trust me, I've studied up on this very topic intensively for the last 10 years, and gotten a lot of therapy for having to deal with pathological assholes. I can't understand why they always find me and like me so much.
I tell ya, I sure don't have any easy answers.
Local SLC npr show had a good hour interview with an "expert" on this topic recently, you should definitely listen here
http://radiowest.kuer.org/post/ahole-survival-guide

I dunno, short of moving away, your best bet is to work really hard at just putting up as many literal physical boundaries. Maybe put up some security cameras? She might do something trespass- or nuisance- worthy that the police might care enough about to help you get a restraining order if things get really tough.

Honestly- "know your asshole" is this expert's advice- which is true. These sick bastards spend their spare time thinking how to break the rules and hurt people and the trick is having a good defense, and the trick to that is being prepared for their sick games which unfortunately requires you to go to those dark places in your mind too, which is painful.

Since she's in your circles, there may be political ways you can gain alliances with your other folks of goodwill. But you have to be cool about it because if you talk about the asshole too much, it will give her more power. That's tough that your husbands work together. Ugg difficult one

Thank you for acknowledging the difficulty of my situation. I've been stumped. And now I don't feel so much like I'm too dumb to figure this one out easily. I've been reading about "A gray rock approach" which I will try. I think I've been pretty much doing that anyway which is why she has moved on to another person. But I'm sure she will cycle back to me at some point because of proximity. Can't wait to listen to the npr interview. You are so right about keeping my cool. Yes, it will give her power if she knows I'm talking about her. I just hope some people pick up on my non-verbals. Thank you!!

The way i deal with my father across the street is letting him know he didnt need to call me every three days or come over unnannounced anymore and if he violates it i let him know again. And if i do let him in the house i will only let him talk and visit for no more than 15 minutes and then he needs to go. These are the peaceful methods i have used and so far it seems to have worked.

She asked to see my bedroom and bathroom one time... to test mylimits ?? Sorry, no...that is my private space. She will never be allowed in my home and I will never be alone with her.

Badass, I am sure it would be exponentially more difficult with family.

You have to be real firm because they know how they have walked over me in the past and so they always try to test the limits. I imagine it will get worse once i have a have kids and the grand dad wants to visit. My dad flew to korea to visit my older sis and here kids and she had to get firm boundaries as well, not even living that far away stopped him. And my dad also is not aloud to go past the front room when he visits. If you don't stand your ground they will literally ruin your life. And also i deleted facebook in 2012 so no spying through that avenue either.

> And my dad also is not aloud to go past the front room when he visits.
> aloud

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Hahaha its true sometimes i will let him in the kitchen for a few seconds but no more than that.

A nasty, critical woman completely demolished my Mormon "shelf" at a single shot. Less than a week later, I had stopped attending church. Within two weeks, I had sent in my resignation letter.

In the long run, she did me a favor. But it hurt badly, for a while.

A blessing in disguise!! LOL!!

One did mine too Catnip. I hadn't seen or heard from her in nearly 25 years, when she cropped up on a mutual friend's Facebook post. She hasn't changed in all those years. Is still the same nasty, backbiting bitch she was then.

I told her off for the second time, on Facebook. Last time was 1993, Christmas party at church. She is/was vile.

You'd think some people would change for the better, with the passage of time.

She not only stayed the same nasty personality. She's gotten worse.

Good riddance for my children and for me. She's probably done more harm single-handedly to members than all the cult leaders sitting in their ivory tower in SLC.

Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: November 24, 2017 10:38PM
Dealing with a nasty neighbor would be rough.

A nasty, critical woman completely demolished my Mormon "shelf" at a single shot. Less than a week later, I had stopped attending church. Within two weeks, I had sent in my resignation letter.

In the long run, she did me a favor. But it hurt badly, for a while.

---------------------------------------

Catnip, was this someone you interacted with online, or was it someone you knew in person?

I'm sometimes concerned that something I wrote might have hurtful consequences to a member who is not quite ready to hear the truth. I've damaged personal relationships in the past by being blunt. I don't want to be like the person you wrote about above.

I gave a lesson in RS that was creative, funny, and well-received. I had put a lot of effort into it, way above and beyond the dreary cr*p in the manual.

The RS Pres came to my house a few days later, to tell me all the reasons why my lesson had been inappropriate. She was nasty and hurtful, and I was shocked to my toenails.

A couple of weeks later, she asked me if I was "offended." "No," I told her. "I'm WAY pissed off." And I walked away, and that was probably the last time I attended the Mormon church.

I would practice a distant cordiality with her as much as possible. If she ever rips into you again, just walk away. You don't have to put up with that. You are not her punching bag. Honestly, it sounds like she has unaddressed mental health issues.

Yep! And a drinking problem. I feel sorry for her children.

And the drinking problem is probably exacerbating her lack of boundaries, giving her the "courage" to say and do the things she does.

Sending you commiserations, but I'm afraid I don't knowthe answer, apart from avoidance which doesn't seem to be on the cards.

Tom in Paris

Only because your husband works for her husband do you need to keep the peace. Be polite but distant. You're TOO BUSY to chat with her.

She is after power over people. And she tests the boundaries to see whom she can manipulate and control. GIVE HER NOTHING! Nothing but a smile, and you've got somewhere you need to be or to do. She'll get it. And she will be intimidated by it too. You won't crumble before her. She will back off with your consistent, POLITE, refusal to interact with her beyond a smile, maybe a complement, and then you're GONE.

Find somewhere you "need to be" if they invite you over. Let your husband deal with his end alone.

Good luck!

Yes!!!! I am thinking about taking some on-line classes that will allow me to be at home, but also not available. Thank you!!

You don't have to actually take the classes -- just tell her that you are taking them. Or tell her that you are on a phone call, etc. Or you could try variations of, "I'm in the middle of a task. Is there something you need?" You don't have to let her in. You can just stand at the door and ward her off.

One way to ward off people if you are out and about is to pretend to be on your cell phone. Whip your phone out of your pocket, whip briskly by your neighbor, while holding a pretend conversation with someone else. People usually won't try to interrupt you if you are on the phone. Earbuds and an iPod might work as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2017 07:25AM by summer.

Yes! We need an app that with a a couple of taps will make your phone ring in X number of seconds. You see her coming, or she knocks on your foot, go yo the app, two taps, a D your phone goes in your pocket, set to ring in another few seconds!

Love it!

Unfortunately I was married twice to ‘them.’ One for thirty years and the other for five. Worked for ‘those’ kind of people, too. So, I learned better. The problem is that most of us were trained in the Golden Rule. Does NOT work with them. It only empowers them.

If you must stay where you are, for whatever reason, then I suggest:

- laugh at them to their face
- never do what they expect of you
- don’t talk to them about you or your family
- don’t ask about their life
- ignore them completely. Completely!
- set your bounaries and when they cross them get right up square
in their face
- take your power back. ‘They’ want to own you
- afterwards, don’t second guess - you did the right thing
- be the ‘momma bear’. No one screws with your family

If you can’t be tough, then move. ‘They’ are satans spawn

So yesterday, she sent me a long, very complementary text regarding my yard Holiday décor. And all she got in return what a simple "Thank you." I wanted to totally ignore her, but I don't want another attack.

Honestly, I don't think the fact that your husband works for her husband should factor into this.

She is treating you with disrespect and if you continue to let her, she will continue to do so. As long as you think that on some level you are at her mercy (her hubby could fire yours if she gets angry) you will continue to be her target and you will take the abuse.

I would tell your hubby about your issue and tell him that you are going to stand up for yourself rather than be abused by this woman.

Then the next time she makes some cruel/snide remark, I'd call her on it and turn and leave. This is a hard thing to do unless you think you have nothing to lose. Until you truly believe she has no leverage over you it will be nearly impossible.

She is a bully and seeks people she perceives are socially weaker than her to bully. You are the perfect target. Live next door and husband is her husband's employee. Plus, you're not aggressive and so she considers you weak.

No job is worth taking abuse to keep, in my opinion.

I am sorry you are dealing with this. She sounds like a miserable woman.

That's the pecking order shit, again. Brain stem behavior.

My husband did report it up the chain after I let him know I will move to protect myself if he didn't take action. I was offered at sit-down with all involved, but decided against it because she will just gaslight me. She would probably get off if she new how much strife she has caused in my marriage. This is a contracted job so moving or quitting is not an option.

My favorite way to respond to this is to repeatedly ask the person: "What makes you think you can speak to me like this?”

I don't worry about the actual subject of the discussion. I focus on the disrespect until they acknowledge that they have stepped over the line. It puts all the focus on their behavior. It is quite confrontatational, but I have found it effective with particularly difficult people. It also points out that you refuse to be bullied, which is what they hate most.

Love it! Perfect.

This is going to the top of my arsenal! :)

One thing that has helped me with this kind of person is to realize that you will be abused. It's a fact of life with this person around. In my experience, when you think you can do something to prevent it, and that you should have done something to prevent it, that fills your life with anxiety waiting for the next blow, or anger when it inevitably happens.

When you can accept that she will persecute you, and it's not your fault, but there's nothing really to fear--she's scary bark, but what's the bite?--then you can start developing confidence that you'll handle just fine whatever she throws at you, and it won't disturb you.

It's like driving in winter. You know, sooner or later, you will commute on a really bad weather day. You can't control the weather, so you handle what comes. No one likes it, everyone complains about it. But, you get through it, and then you forget all about it. Winter throws that at you.

So true. I will print this and read it daily. Thank you!

Discuss this with your husband. How much power does he have over his boss? How much does his boss need him? That woman's husband might be in a situation here he has to defend his wife over your husband.

I personally would "be too busy" to participate in anything she does. I'd avoid her and find different volunteer groups. I don't have time to deal with people who want to act out Jr. High cliques and power trips. She possibly knows you have to play nice because of your husband's positions. Sad to say in this day and age, "big man" might be where she gets her value and power.

How dependent/secure is your husband with his boss? Does he have to kiss her husband's rear?

Pretty much yes to all, and she knows it. She is clearly too stupid to know compliance is far from earned respect.

When your paths cross with someone like you describe in OP, the best way to deal with them is to cut them off at the knees.

They're human wrecking balls. You don't need that vexation in your life.

Since your husband works for hers, I would just avoid her if at all possible. Be cordial when you can't. Unless she says something stupid, crass, or insensitive.

Then you have the right to let her know that isn't acceptable.

Ronnie Reagan had a favorite saying, that's become one of mine: "It's nice to be liked. It's better to be respected."

Go with respected when you have to choose.

Thank you!

After many years of being taken advantage of and pushed around, I figured out that nothing is worth being somebody's bitch. Everytime she gives you problems, let her have it with both barrels. Too bad she is so intrusive you can't ignore her.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2017 02:07PM by Aquarius123.

Boy did you hit my nerve of the day!

I'm dealing with a narcissistic predator that is running rampant in my mother's retirement village. She has won over most of the residents because she oozes charm and provides low cost, in-home assistance to residence. She is not legally allowed to offer health care because her staff have no health care credentials and are often teenagers and old ladies. She, herself, is not a nurse but offers health care treatment like helping her clients take their meds, etc. This is HIGHLY illegal in our state but she does it anyway. She is horrible to her staff and many have quit because she tries to force them to work way too many hours and yells at them for refusing to act as nurses and trained health care professions when they should not. I mentioned to some of her potential clients that she cannot take their long-term care insurance because she has no healthcare credentials so she hates me. She begs for donations of money from her clients and cries about how hard she has always had to work, how poor she is, and how religious she is. They feel sorry for her, trust her completely, and have been known to give her large sums of cash. One client even made her their POA! She has purchased a huge new SUV and a motorcycle not to mention tons of clothes. She knows I can see through her charm down to her predatory behavior and is out to get me. Just yesterday she yelled at me in the laundry room for talking to one of her staff about the proper way to use the facilities. I'm trying to decide if I should mention something to the administrators of the retirement village about her offensive treatment towards me or let it go. She has a lot of the administration believing she is a marvelous and caring person. A few know it's not true but I don't know which ones they are. I see her as a female version of Joseph Smith. I'm torn between making a complaint against her and holding my tongue. Remember, JS put out death orders on his enemies!

Wish I could advise you HigergrlAZ. These are scary people that must not be underestimated.

I think you should definitely make complaints -- to the state medical board and also to the local agency in charge of elder abuse and fraud. Also, if your retirement village has people beyond the local admins -- corporate owners or a board of directors, that's another thought.

This woman is smart and I have no first hand proof. Her staff that have quit are my only sources and they are scared to death of her. They are afraid of getting in trouble if anyone found out how they handled clients so I doubt they would come forward. I might try an anonymous call to state medical board/elder abuse agency because someone really needs to be inspecting her. She's pretty cagey and I know she lies to cover her tracts. Thanks for the suggestions.

If you make the report, they may not be able to prove it right away, but she will be on their radar. I think it will definitely help.

You could complain to the state licensing board anonymously. If she's operating illegally there are repercussions for that.

Tax evasion may be another. State and federal tax agencies will check her out if she's not paying her share of taxes. Or much worse, if she's not paying worker's comp or FICA on her employees.

She sounds sketchy as hell.

Another option are those "call for help" news expose pieces. It wouldn't surprise me, were relatives alerted, if wills have been "updated." Predators never stop looking for prey. A background check might be useful as well. People don't suddenly start being criminal.. I'm sure that if she is evil, this retirement village will not have been her first target. Other States, cities and victims. First, though, someone will need to discover her real name/identity.

Pooped Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This woman is smart and I have no first hand
> proof. Her staff that have quit are my only
> sources and they are scared to death of her. They
> are afraid of getting in trouble if anyone found
> out how they handled clients so I doubt they would
> come forward. I might try an anonymous call to
> state medical board/elder abuse agency because
> someone really needs to be inspecting her. She's
> pretty cagey and I know she lies to cover her
> tracts. Thanks for the suggestions.

Summer's right that an agency might not get to it quickly, but she will be on their radar. If she is reported and is continuing to provided services she is unlicensed to provide, no one who worked for her really has to talk. She'll probably eventually be caught in the act. someone has to report it though. Anonymously might be the way to go.

An elder abuse agency might pursue this most aggressively, especially since the woman has gained power of attorney over someone with whom she has no long-standing relationship. That usually sets off red flags.

If she yells at you for anything, in most situations you are not captive and do not have to stand there and listen to anything she has to say.

I thought about the volunteer groups, too. The nice thing about them is that you get to choose. don't let the evil person keep you from any activity that gives you real pleasure, but if her presence is making the volunteer pursuit more annoying than rewarding, drop it.

You owe this woman nothing. You don't have to speak or listen to her. In few cases are you even required to be in the same room as she is. You may have to negotiate with a spouse over social functions because of his work situation, but there is no reason you should be expected to attend functions at which you might be verbally or psychologically abused.

I can sooo relate. You're right, you can't under-estimate their crazy.

Sociopaths and psychopaths are not as smart as they think they are. I had two in my family. One conned my father and uncles out of thousands of dollars. I was afraid my children would become his victims, but my children clever enough to detect his stupid lies and boasting, from an early age. The other was a pedophile, and I had to avoid him completely, and keep my children away from him, at all cost. Sometimes we didn't attend family parties, if he was there.

I highly recommend avoidance. How much do you enjoy your volunteer groups? There are lots of other volunteer opportunities, I'm sure, or you could donate money instead of time, and pursue your own hobbies and interests.

You said that this woman has mistreated others, too, and I'll bet you that your volunteer groups can see through her. So, don't worry. If she bad-mouths you to others, she will only hurt herself further. If others believe her lies about you, then you don't want to be in that volunteer group, anyway. Likewise, her husband (your husband's boss) certainly knows she's a sociopath, after being married to her, and he won't pay attention to anything she says against you or your husband.

Be patient. Sociopaths always shoot themselves in the foot! Granted, it takes more time than you would ever want to spend with them, but it always happens. Look at what happened to Joseph Smith, in the end.

BTW, it does no good to warn others, but in my case, I felt a moral obligation to protect my children and my family members. Some of them laughed at me. Others got angry. Still, I felt better--and my own children avoided being hurt by them--which was most important, anyway.

The con-man sociopath cornered me at a family reunion this summer, blasting lies (and bad-breath) in my face, as I walked around the room, said hello to other people, trying to shake him off. I wasn't mean--I just gave him what I call the "black-hole" treatment. I wasn't there. I stared off into space, and never made eye contact. I didn't say anything bad or anything good--just--nothing--maybe a mumble. This is not the "silent treatment" which is being mean. Finally, I ducked into the bathroom, and stayed there for a long time. When I opened the door, he was still there, waiting for me! Sociopaths do NOT get the hint!

What was good, was that he didn't get any information out of me, about my family or my self. He couldn't argue or try to sell me anything, because I wasn't responding. He couldn't make me look bad, because I was not being mean or rude. He couldn't hurt me, because I knew he was "bad weather", like MCR says. (I loved MCR's answer, BTW.) No one--not even a psychiatrist--can cure a sociopath. Don't even try to teach them a lesson, or change them, or punish them.

Head phones work better than earbuds, because they are easily seen. The Mormons kept coming over into my yard, when I was gardening, or going to the mailbox, to tell me to read the BOM, or to try to find out my children's addresses, etc. It bothered me, so I put on headphones. Often, my i-pod wasn't even turned on. I just wanted peace. Being on the cell phone is a good idea, too, and I often do that at the grocery store, to avoid the snarky Mormon shunners. I keep my grocery list on there.

There's nothing wrong with being busy, running late for an appointment, in a hurry, having something cooking on the stove, needing to return a phone call, and a thousand other normal, everyday things you have a right to be doing. That woman won't get the hint, but she will definitely lose interest! A black-hole is boring, it is nothing, and nothing effects it. She will move on to her next victim.

Great game plan!

If I reflect on the problems in my life, I can trace each of them to impact by a narcissistic sociopath or psychopaths. They are everywhere today and the cult is full of them. NPD is not only an individual problem, but runs in families. Trump is a malignant narcissist. I think Christ was talking about them when He said, "they are whited sepulchres full of dead men's bones." The chief priests in His day provided a mountain of false accusations out of jealousy and pride. NPD is the sum of all of the seven deadly sins. If you do a study on it by reading everything you can, you will get an education on how to develop self protection and coping skills when dealing with her/them. These wicked people are a trigger for me. I was triggered in the cult every two seconds. Their evil was key in showing me the Mormon Church is a cult. For what it's worth it, I am thankful because it facilitated my exit. These folks are emotional vampires. They will such the soul out of your body. Have an exit strategy whenever she shows up. I get a lot of interesting information on Pinterest. I feel your pain. Keep your distance and boundaries strong. Communicate with your husband so he supports you.

Thank you! I will check out Pinterest. I like the term exit strategy.

Ignore the advice to ignore this woman. If you have to do that, she is controlling your life.


I would be tempted to run across her for sport. When she pulls some crap, I would simply start asking her questions.

You mentioned she ripped you one based on bad information.

When she says something, ask why she is saying that. Or where did she get that information. Or mention that most people would think the way she said that was rude. Are you aware that you sound rude? Is there a reason you need to be rude?


The key is to pause after the questions. Give her plenty of time to answer.

You can't get angry, or she wins.

To keep from getting angry, I would look at her as developmentally disabled. A special needs person. You can't get mad at such a person.

Yes! I do know that she can get frustrated when questioned. I think I will do both. Avoid when I want and question when she hovers, which she is doing more lately.

Next time just stare at her nose. Kinda tilt your head and lean be k a little. Then point and say, you have a bugger!
Make a face and walk away.
Any time before near, make an excuse, change the subject to something very different;
Oops, gotta poop.
Spider! Yelp and run.
So do you wipe with left hand or right?
Etc, etc.

LOL!

I had this issue and it was necessary to be around that type of person because of a job and she was around outside of work too. It was getting me down. This was during the time of SNL Church Lady skits. One evening at a function, here she comes, and I smiled really big and listened to her s***. As I kept smiling, I took her by her shoulders and said loudly, "aren't you just so special" and walked off. She never bothered me again.

All good advice.
Remember, just as we have physical health issues, so do people have mental health issues.
The rules are different.
The question “why?” as often as needed.
You donot have to answer anything. They donot own you. You donot owe them anything.
Actively avoiding them may well be worth it.
Courage.

Thank you! :)