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Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
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Posted by: valiant ( )
Date: November 19, 2017 11:07AM

So this is my first post here although I have been lurking for a while (almost a year). I left the church formally just this last May and wanted to thank all of you here for helping me make what you all know to be a difficult transition out. I also attended the last ExMormon Foundation Conference in October and wanted to thank everyone there for being so helpful and for making me feel like I belonged there. We all know how difficult the social aspect of leaving can be, so having some support is really helpful. I live in Minnesota, so the social part of leaving is not as difficult as I'm sure it must be in Utah or other places--my hat's off to you who have left where the social, economic and other pressures are obviously so great--it takes some real courage to go against the majority view. My hat's off to everyone who has left, and to those who feel they can't leave because of wanting to keep important relationships intact, but who are fighting against the church as your circumstances allow.

The conference and this site have been really helpful to me in finding a voice to talk to friends and family about why I have chosen to flush this church out of my life, and I feel like I'm ready to go on offense a bit (or more). This church does so much damage to people's lives and needs to be stopped. Thanks for helping give me the courage to do my part in putting an end to the evil that is this church.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: November 19, 2017 11:14AM

Welcome, brave and honest traveler! May your days be long and productive in this vineyard.

Now then, I get the "my hat's off to you" part of your salutation, but don't be limiting yourself! "My pants are off to you" is also a perfectly fine sentiment.

Blessings upon you and your house.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: November 19, 2017 11:27AM

Welcome, Valiant! We're glad to have you here.

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Posted by: Becca ( )
Date: November 19, 2017 11:30AM

Welcome! Nice of you to say Hello.


Please feel free to join us in conversations of all kind.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: November 19, 2017 11:42AM

You were very brave to take this step. I'm glad your recovery is going well and I'm glad you have the courage to seek whatever help you need. Glad to have you here!

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Posted by: lilburne ( )
Date: November 19, 2017 11:50AM

Good job. Not enough people are finding out and of those who do there are too many too afraid to speak up let alone leave.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: November 19, 2017 12:07PM

Welcome to life in the world where people are awake.

It is a solitary journey to plan and run your own life, but it is very rewarding.

Congratulations for having the courage to do your homework and snapping out of the heavily engrained mindset.

The journey of inquiry is rewarding in itself. Enjoy your quest.

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Posted by: valiant ( )
Date: November 19, 2017 12:15PM

Thanks for the welcome! And pants off to elderolddog and all of you! I agree that not enough people are finding out and we're reluctant to speak up for a variety of reasons. I do think, though, that a lot of mormons are probably closer to leaving than we know (like I was for a long time), and we might just be able to bring up the issue that will finally break their shelf and get them to look at the whole thing differently. I just hope to do that for some of the people that I really care deeply about and hate to see wasting so much time, money, conscience, and everything with which the lord has blessed them or with which he may bless them, on this corrupt organization.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: November 19, 2017 12:26PM

You've decided to exercise your inherent right to be honest and authentic about your choice to believe as you will.

The moment you let someone else, anyone else do that for you, you lose the ability to reason things out for yourself.

Welcome out!

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Posted by: kathleen ( )
Date: November 19, 2017 12:40PM

I will be looking forward to more of your posts, Valiant!

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: November 19, 2017 12:41PM

Welcome!

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Posted by: valkyriequeen ( )
Date: November 19, 2017 12:59PM

Welcome, Valiant! It's like finally waking up from a long nightmare, isn't it? Or having eye surgery and seeing 20/20 for the first time. I have a co-worker who moved to Utah from Minnesota; from what she said, Minnesota is beautiful; my DH went there on a business trip and he really liked it while he was there. I'm a Lord of the Rings fan, and I joke with friends about living near the Black Gates of Mordor (temple square). I also think that more people are starting to realize that TSCC is a business/cult and hopefully, more shelves will come down sooner than later.

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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: November 23, 2017 03:25PM

I think i am in the kingdom of angmar in the north.

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Posted by: valiant ( )
Date: November 19, 2017 02:26PM

valkyriequeen (I love the name), it's funny that you bring up eye surgery as a comparison, I just got the surgery done recently and it is definitely analogous to leaving the church. My vision has changed in so many ways.

Minnesota is beautiful, although this time of year I wonder if it's worth it, the winters are just so brutal.

I agree that more people are seeing the church as it is, it's just hard that it takes so long. I need to be patient though, it took a long time for me to finally completely break my shelf and get out. The nice thing to know is that everything is on our side--time, the truth, facts, scientific evidence, cultural changes, people's natural tendencies--everything works against the church. We just need to do our part to hurry the process along.

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Posted by: Mother Who Knows ( )
Date: November 20, 2017 09:03AM

Welcome, Valiant!

It's true, that "everything works against the [Mormon] church." Hence, the church works against everything.

Since leaving, my life has flowed along much more easily, more in tune with nature and the rest of the world. My relationships are smoother and more loving.

You will find more happiness than you ever dreamed of! I hope your whole family is cult-free, with you.

I am one who found Jesus, after leaving the cult. I left when I realized that Christ is only in the name in front of the building, but Christ is NOT in the Mormon church. It is not a church of Love. After becoming inactive, I found out the real Truth, on RFM, and other places, which led me and my children to formally resign.

Yes, thank you, RFM.

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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: November 23, 2017 03:30PM

What eye surgery did you get? I got a prk done a week ago and my vision is still blurry and worse and i am starting to panic. But the eye doc said that it should come around but i am very worried this bad vision makes me feel very uneasy, i thought it was just going to be a minor procedure and i could see the next day but it has not been the case. I read online that it could take a while but should my vision be worse a week out?

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Posted by: Felix ( )
Date: November 19, 2017 04:32PM

Welcome Valiant, glad you have come to the place where it is OK to question. This is a dogma free sight.

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Posted by: cricket ( )
Date: November 19, 2017 04:51PM

at the Exmo Conference. You and your story are inspirational as to how human beings pursue their own authenticity. All the best and welcome here.

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Posted by: readwrite ( )
Date: November 20, 2017 12:03AM

Welcome. Nice post and thoughts.

What are you going to do now that your pants are off?

Dance!

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Posted by: Shummy ( )
Date: November 20, 2017 11:24AM

Howdy.

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Posted by: eternal1 ( )
Date: November 20, 2017 11:29AM

"I have chosen to flush this church out of my life"

I like that. Gives one the appropriate visual of what Mormonism really is...something in need of a flush.

Glad you made it out!

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Posted by: valiant ( )
Date: November 20, 2017 05:40PM

Just wanted to thank everyone again for the warm welcome. I don't have a lot of time to post but I'll keep in touch when I can. I'm interested, as I'm sure many here are, in helping others get out, so I'll keep you posted on how that effort goes. I'm especially glad that my kids, though not formally out yet, are mostly free of the church and that we have kept great relationships throughout the process. My ex-wife, ironically, is still kind of on the believing fence, even though she is likely to go through a court of love sometime soon. I want to be there for that, I have a few things to say at that event. Even though we don't necessarily see exactly eye to eye on the church, we can talk about it and be honest about the real damage it could have done to our family if we hadn't gone with our own consciences over the church's ridiculous dogma.

Thanks again for all of your help, you don't know all the good this board does for people who aren't necessarily ready to post or to leave the church or take any action yet. It's just so helpful to know there are friends who have been through it and understand the issues, even though each individual path has its peculiarities. Keep up the great work!

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Posted by: cinda ( )
Date: November 20, 2017 07:23PM

Congratulations, valiant, and welcome to RfM.

I am a nevermo and if you've been lurking for about a year, then you must be aware of that acronym. Good luck with your ex-wife's "court of love" and please do report back here as to how turns out.

You have some very wise, and very kind words. Again, welcome. I look forward to more posts from you :)

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Posted by: Human ( )
Date: November 21, 2017 12:10PM

Hi there. Thank you for your post.

Also, I agree: those who leave LDSinc but still must live in S. Idaho, Utah or Mormon places in Arizona are truly remarkable. Not that it isn’t hard for the rest of us, but there are extra difficulties for those remaining in mormondom.

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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: November 23, 2017 03:32PM

Yes there are i can attest in southeast idaho. My new name for it the kingdom of angmar in the north haha.

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Posted by: Agnes Broomhead ( )
Date: November 21, 2017 12:34PM

Congratulations valiant. Are you a lifelong Minnesotan or Midwesterner? What made you join TSCC in the first place?

Did you ever go inside the House of Handshakes on Hadley Avenue, or at least drive past it? If so, did it have any impact on you?

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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: November 21, 2017 06:57PM

If you get pestered or bullied i am sorry, i did my best to get him to quit but no dice.

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Posted by: GregS ( )
Date: November 22, 2017 07:50AM

I really don't think Valiant has anything to worry about.

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Posted by: GregS ( )
Date: November 22, 2017 07:49AM

Welcome, Valiant, from one Minnesotan to another. I'm one of the resident nevermos here, though my wife is a member. The board has provided me with insights to my wife and Mormonism, as well as a place to vent when church-thought rears its ugly head in our marriage.

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Posted by: valiant ( )
Date: November 22, 2017 10:29AM

I was born in Rexburg and grew up in the church. I have 10 brothers and sisters who are all active in the church (for now). We moved to Nampa (near Boise) when I was 14--I was there when the first Boise temple started doing business. I served a mission in Michigan and graduated twice from BYU. I got married in the temple and we have five children, they're now aged 13 to 21. We moved to Minnesota fifteen years ago (GregS, I'd love to meet you sometime and would be happy to have a conversation with you more about the church and how it makes people believe all the stupid stuff).

Things were building up on my shelf for lots of years, I remember reading Alma 32 maybe 10 years ago or so and its anti-organized religion stance was a real relief to me. The idea that the tree of life is a personal, organic one inside of each of us (opposed to the external, kind of mechanical one in Lehi's dream that is the same for everyone) was how I stayed sane in the church, feeling that I could have my own personal beliefs when they didn't match up with the church's policies. So I guess that part of the Book of Mormon is true for me (I think I can thank Oliver Cowdery for that chapter in Alma, even a charlatan can get something right on occasion I guess). I convinced myself that the church was making me a better person (more kind, more patient and understanding, a better father/husband, etc.), although I now recognize that it was primarily my struggle against what the church was doing that was doing good for me.

My shelf came down when my now ex-wife came out to me as gay and all my feelings about how the church treats gay people (and anyone else who doesn't fit the Mormon mold) finally made me look closely at what the church really is and why it treats people the way it does. I felt very alone and was looking for someone to talk to about everything and found John Gustav-Wrathall, the president of affirmation.org, as he lives here in Minnesota. He was very helpful to me in many ways, but a big one was that he helped me publish my story on the affirmation website.

https://affirmation.org/loving-each-other-through-divorce/

Sorry it's kind of a long story if you actually go and read it. And obviously I've come a long way on my feelings about the church since then. I really wanted to believe that the church was about kindness and compassion and good relationships with people, but I saw that the church only cared about itself, not the members, especially, again, if the people don't fit the mold, even though I thought our family had a really compelling story that was all about understanding and love and compassion and everything that "Christ's true church" should really care about.

Like I said before, all of you on this site have been really helpful to me through this, so again I'm grateful. And I do think that a lot of people in the church have shelves that can be broken if we just help them find the thing that will break it.

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Posted by: GregS ( )
Date: November 22, 2017 11:07AM

I'd love to meet, as well. I think we are moving in tangential circles with a minimal degree of separation. Though I am not a member, I have attended a sacrament meetings with my wife and know many of the same people she does in the a couple of the Minneapolis wards.

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Posted by: valiant ( )
Date: November 22, 2017 03:18PM

GregS, I was just reading your thread on being excluded from a temple sealing. That would be cool to get together for a drink during the ceremony. I don't know if there's a way to make online contact outside of the forum, but if not let me know when the wedding is and I'll see if I can be there then.

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Posted by: GregS ( )
Date: November 23, 2017 03:07PM

I believe there exists a policy in place for exchanging emails, but I do not know what it is.

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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: November 23, 2017 03:50PM

Whatever it is i did not know about it or use it. Maybe it will get erased but there are a couple of people i want to stay in touch with for sure when i leave just want to make sure they get my info.

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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: November 23, 2017 04:08PM

Never be afraid to be offensive. We have all been pushed around for way too long and that is my advice that even i need to take.

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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: November 23, 2017 04:09PM

This post was supposed to be a reply for the OP.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: November 23, 2017 03:56PM

Email Eric and see if he can do the exchange for you.

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: November 23, 2017 03:58PM

Contact Admin (address on the main page) and tell them they can pss on your email address to the poster in question, and then use the board to tell that person to contact admin.

It works.

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Posted by: GregS ( )
Date: November 27, 2017 12:33PM

Valiant, I have told Admin that it's OK for them to share my email with you.

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Posted by: valiant ( )
Date: November 27, 2017 02:44PM

Thanks Greg. I just emailed Eric to get your address, I'll drop you a line when I get it. I would love to meet others as well who are close by.

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: November 22, 2017 11:06PM

Excellent Valiant!

Keep loving
That's how we live

Excellent vision.

Way to go
Keep doing the same

Keep sharing.

M@t

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Posted by: mrcoffee84 ( )
Date: November 27, 2017 02:19PM

From a fellow Minnesotan, congrats!

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Posted by: pollythinks ( )
Date: November 27, 2017 03:38PM

Valiant: If you live in Minnesota, and have courage enough to take your hat off to us in that cold area, we know you are sincere in your praise.

Best Wishes in your future ventures to stabilize your life.

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