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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: November 13, 2017 02:08PM

The more temples the church builds the more they show they have no clue of what a temple actually was. A temple in Old Testament times was a place where sacrifices took place. There was no endowment ceremony. The sea of brass was no baptismal font. It was a tub where the high priests washed themselves. Christ himself said the temple in Jerusalem would be destroyed. Christ's sacrifice ended the practice of sacrifice at the temple. The temple is a structure used to practice the law of Moses not what Christ taught. Clearly the Mormon temples are something created by the Mormons and clearly inspired by what goes on in a Freemason lodge. Anyone who really understands what Christ taught in the New Testament would understand he did away with the need to sacrifice in a temple. So when the Mormons say they restored the true gospel of Christ it's laughable. I doubt Christ ever wore underwear with an undershirt that has a compass and square on the nipples. Full restoration? Please.

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Posted by: itzbeen20 ( )
Date: November 13, 2017 02:23PM

Yep, except some of the sacrifices were food for the priests. Since tending to the temple was their full time job.
The animals sacrifices were also part accountability— to have people understand there were consequences to certain actions.
Other reasons too.
A good god never requires a human sacrifice.
That is totally ungodly.

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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: November 13, 2017 02:28PM

Yeah. Those priests became corrupt too. The temple became a place of business. Christ got pissed and overturned the moneychanger's tables. Good thing the church sells temple garments for a reasonable price. Keeps Christ from showing up and overturning the cash register at the distribution center.

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Posted by: relievedtolearn ( )
Date: November 13, 2017 03:09PM

LOL

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Posted by: itzbeen20 ( )
Date: November 13, 2017 03:40PM

Basic yearly supply of garments for temple goers. Free of charge.
The Mideast has some business practices different from elsewhere.
Donot think they were any worse than any other businessmen.

Think the jc ang of thieves made a ruckus, so in the noisy diversion, they could raid some cash boxes.

Just imagine all those doves flapping around. All the escapees from the cages!
Their alibi made them look good. They all vouched for each other.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2017 12:25PM by itzbeen20.

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Posted by: isthechurchtrue ( )
Date: November 13, 2017 10:00PM

Acts 17:24-25
"24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; 25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;"

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Posted by: itzbeen20 ( )
Date: November 13, 2017 10:13PM

But temples are simply a location and life that god supposedly gives, plays out on earth, in convenient locations.
In and out of buildings. But those people do need comfortable places to carry on that life.
God is a big boy and needs nothing from us.
Good reminder.
Now who said jc was a god?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2017 07:28AM by itzbeen20.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: November 14, 2017 09:16AM

Temples are a symbol of the temporal power of any particular religion. The more grandiose and gaudy they are, the more powerful the religion.

That's all they've ever been, and all they ever will be.

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Posted by: itzbeen20 ( )
Date: November 14, 2017 09:49AM

Indeed.
Temporal displays and power are all we have here.
Like when people get an overexpanded fancy house, beyond basic needs. Or elaborate hospitals buildings, when simpler constructions will do and serve more care!
Imagine?
It is showy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2017 09:50AM by itzbeen20.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: November 15, 2017 10:41AM

Hie, you're not simply generalizing, you're universalizing--taking what you've observed and experienced in LDS and applying it to each and every religious institution. Your position states that NOBODY builds a religious edifice simply out of spiritual devotion. Consider that the medieval Catholic Church had a monopoly on religion in Europe, but still built huge, awe-inspiring, and reverent cathedrals, rich in icons and symbols to reflect, and teach, their beliefs. They did not have to do it--it was pure religion in stone and glass.

But coming out of a cult myself, I see your point. (E.g. Search images for "Mother Church Boston.") I just think you're going overboard.

I so admire the great "House of Atheism" edifices! </S>

Itzbeen20: I think that as people abandon their faith in God, they (the .01%, especially) want something that lasts for them to be remembered by. Hence, the proliferation of hospital and college buildings they attach their names to. My son designed and made a little plaque for me, which I want to super-glue in the men's room at Symphony Hall (which is loaded with names of benefactors):

"This urinal was made possible because of the generosity of (Caffiend's Real Name)" I don't want people walking by some plaque and never noticing--I want them to see my name!

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: November 15, 2017 03:01PM

caffiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hie, you're not simply generalizing, you're
> universalizing--taking what you've observed and
> experienced in LDS and applying it to each and
> every religious institution.

Actually, I'm taking what has been observed of all religions throughout history and stating it. It's not in any way based solely on my own, limited, "LDS" experience.

> Your position states
> that NOBODY builds a religious edifice simply out
> of spiritual devotion.

Actually, no...but that's OK.

> Consider that the medieval
> Catholic Church had a monopoly on religion in
> Europe, but still built huge, awe-inspiring, and
> reverent cathedrals, rich in icons and symbols to
> reflect, and teach, their beliefs. They did not
> have to do it--it was pure religion in stone and
> glass.

So huge, ostentatious cathedrals weren't a projection of the church's status, wealth, and power over the people subject to them?
Really?

They may have *also* served a religious purpose (so do LDS temples), but that doesn't mean they weren't projections of wealth, status, and power. They were (and are).

The "religious" purposes could be served in a thatched hut. Or in the open air, with no huge, grand, expensive, ornate building at all. And, in fact, *that* would clearly have been more in line with what Christianity's purported founder advocated -- making my case stronger still :)

> I so admire the great "House of Atheism" edifices!

I don't know why you expect something that isn't a religion to behave like one. That seems quite odd :)
(yes I know it was sarcasm, but still...)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2017 03:02PM by ificouldhietokolob.

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Posted by: itzbeen20 ( )
Date: November 16, 2017 09:21PM

Not sure why people think they were built so unselfishly.
That is what the cath Church is telling you.
They were very competitive, one location trying to out do the other.
If you had some skill, then you could build and have the protection of the church instead of the inquistorson your back. They controlled all aspects of life.
They could easily have you killed. And they did.
So people placated them.
Yea, they did not want the knights to ride in and slash them to pieces!

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Posted by: itzbeen20 ( )
Date: November 14, 2017 09:53AM

On another note, there is no law of sacrifices.
This is another example of a major double bind.

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Posted by: Anon4this ( )
Date: November 14, 2017 10:13AM

Thank you, Rubicon for writing what has been bothering me for years. I also felt that your argument is applicable to the unspeakable practice of polygamy which was practiced in the Old Testament before Christ.

After going to the temple on my wedding day in the sixties, I
came out literally shell shocked. I Went without any family but
I absolutely HATED everything and my first thought was that it was nothing short of a two hour exercise in futility as I was not
Inspired, but instead I actually felt dirty from the whole experience.

However, above all else the big question in my mind was if Christ
Died to fulfill the law of sacrifice, then what the hell was that
All about.

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Posted by: ProvoX ( )
Date: November 15, 2017 12:58AM

Me: "But God, show me a sign that the church is true or not!"

God: "Sheesh - You went through that silly temple thingy, didn't you?"

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Posted by: itzbeen20 ( )
Date: November 14, 2017 11:46PM

It was a way to trick you, me, everyone into feeling Uber guilty and obliged.
But it never existed or happened. Pure fiction. As you noticed.

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Posted by: smirkorama ( )
Date: November 15, 2017 02:32AM

the purpose of israelite temple rites in mosaic law was to prepare the israelites for the coming of their messiah. once the messiah had come, then there was no more need for the temple rites. Christians (catholics) understood that fundamental concept so they do NOT build temples, they build cathedrals instead because they accept the New Testament Christ as the messiah for the world.

...........EVERY MORmON "temple" is an architectural monument attesting that MORmONS do not understand and /or accept the message of the New Testament about Jesus Christ, IE MORmONS are not really Christians !!!!!!

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: November 15, 2017 10:36AM

smirkorama Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the purpose of israelite temple rites in mosaic
> law was to prepare the israelites for the coming
> of their messiah.

You do realize that Jews don't agree with that subjective "purpose," don't you?

> Christians (catholics) understood that fundamental
> concept so they do NOT build temples, they build
> cathedrals instead...

Same grandiose show of money & power, different stuff going on inside. Meh.

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Posted by: itzbeen20 ( )
Date: November 15, 2017 02:31PM

Everyone and anyone can be a messiah. It is a standard of inspiration to strive for. Limitless.

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Posted by: Kentish ( )
Date: November 15, 2017 04:03AM

Christians, found in all denominations,need no human priestly advocate since the veil separating man from God,s presence has been torn apart and Christ has become our advocate. He is the only High Priest.

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Posted by: itzbeen20 ( )
Date: November 15, 2017 02:27PM

The same j found in all the inquisitions and death sentences for not believing.
Sorry his not god.

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Posted by: jackman ( )
Date: November 15, 2017 01:47PM

We are taught that we have be make temples super lavish and nice so God will accept them.
Sounds like God is a spoiled little rich kid. How petty and superficial of God to not accept a modest tent like in old testament times.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: November 15, 2017 01:57PM

jackman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We are taught that we have be make temples super
> lavish and nice so God will accept them.
> Sounds like God is a spoiled little rich kid. How
> petty and superficial of God to not accept a
> modest tent like in old testament times.

False gods and corrupted understandings of God are part and parcel of grand edifice building. I don't want to over-generalize--an exception is the medieval cathedrals of Europe.

"Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body" (I Cor. 6:19-20 ESV).

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Posted by: namarod ( )
Date: November 15, 2017 07:09PM

I don't really care about the Jewish Temple ceremonies in the Bible either. What they did was also nonsense and made up superstitious gobbledygook just like modern LDS Temple ceremonies.

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Posted by: tedf ( )
Date: November 15, 2017 07:32PM

Thanks Rubicon for exposing yet another doctrinal fallacy of Mormonism.

Mormons are building temples at a frenetic pace for reasons other than God: temples keep members in line (Bishop and Stake President interviews); make sure the ten percent is paid up; making sure at least one of Joseph Smith's "prophesies" can be ticked off (temples dotting the world) that, at least, is within their power to achieve.

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Posted by: valkyriequeen ( )
Date: November 16, 2017 09:59AM

Rubicon, thanks for starting this topic! I learn something new here all the time! I never realized that EVERYTHING was fulfilled when Jesus came, which included the temple stuff. I'm going to bring this subject up next week with my family, especially our still-active daughter and son-in-law.

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