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Posted by: Nervous ( )
Date: November 11, 2017 03:38AM

Without going into raw details, I had involvement with an LDS man that I our family did business with. It was very emotional, but eventually we decided to keep apart since were both married to others. Well I needed certain papers he had and instead of calling him, I called an associate of his and asked him to get me what I needed. This man asked what happened between us that I couldn't contact the guy directly. Since this associate of his was a bishop, I couldn't bear telling even a lie of omission. I admitted to...alot. I know the man I spoke to was once his bishop, but is no longer. I hope I didn't get anyone in trouble. I feel nervous. He assured me he'd never get him in trouble,but needed to know so he could counsel me. To be honest I had the strong feeling my old...idk what to call him had already told his bishop some stuff and the guy just wanted to juice me for details. This bishop was even asking detailed sexual questions. I just don't know because I'm not lds. Did I do something bad?

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: November 11, 2017 07:09AM

You are kidding, right? You told some random person over the phone your private business? You tolerated him asking you detailed sexual questions? You have bigger problems than spilling the beans to a Mormon former bishop. You seem to lack discretion and common sense.

>>This man asked what happened between us that I couldn't contact the guy directly.

The correct answer to this is, "I am contacting you. Would you please pass along my request, or is there a problem with that?" Show a little bit of backbone and in most cases, the other person will back down.

My advice would be to refuse to talk to this person ever again. And next time, keep your private business to yourself.

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Posted by: Stillanon ( )
Date: November 11, 2017 11:22AM

This has got to be a joke. If she's really that naive, we can help fix her problem. All I need is for her to post her credit card number (with the security code) and her SSN, and I'll take care of this.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: November 11, 2017 12:33PM

Yeah. This. In spades.

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Posted by: helenm ( )
Date: November 11, 2017 12:54PM

I was thinking the same.

Nervous, why would you share private and intimate details about your relationship with another man to a complete stranger? That is private and personal. You may not want to talk to your former paramour, but you do what you need to do and not involve someone else. You simply could have emailed him and asked seeing talking over the phone or in person was not a good idea. You over-complicated the whole thing and created a problem.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2017 12:59PM by helenm.

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Posted by: Trouble Not ( )
Date: November 11, 2017 07:28AM

Speaking the truth is not "bad."

The "raw details" seem to have been adultery; I'll assume this for the sake of brevity, whether it was an emotional affair, sexual affair, budding affair, or whatever.

Mormon bishops are not "clergy" in the sense that they are "trained professionals". They are BICs (born in the church), heavily indoctrinated their entire lives (as are all BICs) and usually chosen from the rank and file membership. The church has no paid "clergy," and bishops range from kind, astute men to total pricks. Considering the grilling you got, you were talking to the latter.

You owe neither the man with whom you had the affair nor his bishop any further interaction. Their weird cult-like religion is their problem, and the reason this board exists. You're here because your instincts were spot-on. You're here because you can't get the truth of Mormonism from a Mormon.

Your ex-lover chose to share the most intimate of interactions with you, but never told you the "awful" truth of his religion. Mormons who cheat outside of their religion hope it never to be discovered within the membership. Depending on how well he pays his tithes, he will likely be fine, as good tithe-payers meet that tenet most important to LDS - paying $$$. The bishop may use the information to manipulate, control or damage your ex-lover, all of which is out of your hands, at this point. You can't un-ring that bell.

Mormons are not "Christian" in the commonly understood definition of the term. There is a very large body of Mormon work that derails what many consider to be the basic tenets of Christianity. You are not "subject" to Mormon tenets, and violated only your own conscience. You are not responsible to or for the religion in which your ex-lover chooses to remain, nor any contrived "danger" thereof. But, your "secrets" are no longer "secret."

Should your ex-lover protest to you, feel free to remind him that he never told you about the "cult rules," and following the grilling by the so-called "clergy," you were so creeped out you had to search online for honest answers about the logistical messes his so-called church creates. It's not your mess to clean up, but his, and you are not the one "pretending" or accepts that un-trained folk are conscripted to play at being "clergy."

Going forward, I suggest that you use an attorney, the US mail or UPS/FedEx to deliver documents. I would also ask myself why I didn't go these routes to begin with, and why, I felt obligated to spill the details to a stranger, one religiously connected to my ex-lover.

I would concern myself about my own internal "messes," not his "faith" messes.

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Posted by: Nervous ( )
Date: November 11, 2017 10:46AM

I understand, but this man isn't a total stranger, he is sctually an attorney who helped us a couple of times before for low/no cost. I got the feeling he knew stuff but wanted more info about me and his friend. As for old luv, he definitely pays his tithes so I feel better about that. I felt two ways A. Don't lie esp to a man of the cloth. B. I owe him what he asks bc he's helped us for nothing prior. Internal messes was a good word. I've never gotten over this one, which is probably why I blew out at my weak point with bishop.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: November 11, 2017 12:22PM

You still could have replied, "It's a personal matter. I would prefer to deal with you." Let him draw his own conclusions.

Life lesson: Just because some busybody asks you a question, doesn't mean that you have to answer it.

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Posted by: Trouble Not ( )
Date: November 11, 2017 12:28PM

Thanks for stating how the secret happened to get blown. ...enquiring minds... ;)


Since it's a festering wound, I would try to find a solid, non-religious counselor to help find ways to help it heal. If you don't, it could keep coming out sideways, as in this situation. I say non-religious because when you write "man of the cloth," I don't entirely trust religious leaders to be non-judgemental; that is, they can sometimes make things worse, by heaping religious shame onto already massive feelings of guilt.

If you are still married, counseling can also open avenues of thought to help out there, as well. Until you decide a plan of action, you can tell your husband that some old issues have come up that you are ready to work through with a professional.

As for the two men referenced in your first post, until it's more settled for you, for your sake, don't respond with anything other than, "I'm not interested in discussing it, is there other business to attend? No? Good day to you." Click. Leave no room for debate, questions or accusations. You have healing to do, and don't need cult crapped heaped onto your shoulders.

Just a word or two for you to think about - Your ex-lover chose a never-mo for a reason; apologies, but one does not shit where he eats, that is, among Mormons. Most who cheat are serial cheaters; nothing you told the bishop likely will be "news" to him, being a friend of your ex-lover. Finally, a caution. As sick as it will sound, the ex-bishop broke down your limits, and in doing so, has also "groomed" you to be open to any advances he may make. It is possible that you are on an unofficial "the willing never-mos" list among friends. Just steer clear of them. If he's not currently your ex-lover's bishop, he did not need details, and a decent person would not have asked them.

Your ex-lover is an adult, and can take care of himself. The lawyer-ex-bishop will do as he will. If the lawyer performed free services in the past, that was his gift to your family. You owe him nothing, and can pay a truly disinterested party (a lawyer) going forward. If your family says, "Just ask Bill!" say that you're uncomfortable doing that, and will find a trustworthy attorney.

And find and put your local UPS store or drop-box into your phone contacts. ;)

Good wishes to you.

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Posted by: Nervous ( )
Date: November 11, 2017 12:37PM

Trouble not, I like the solid input you've given. This guy was not a serial cheater in any way shape or form. As far as me being groomed. That will never happen. I don't have the feelings or connection with the bishop, anyway. In addition I'm married and deeply in love with DH. He and I discussed and have healed as a couple, but I on my own have not healed. I know what you're thinking but that was a fluke thing, and we didn't have real sex or oral even though we were involved for years. It aas mainky emotional. Youre so right avout EVERYTHING else though.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: November 12, 2017 08:50AM

You don't know he wasn't a serial cheater.

If he was cheating on his wife with you, he'd cheat with others too.

He's been more discreet than you are, is the difference.

What a doozy.

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Posted by: helenm ( )
Date: November 11, 2017 12:57PM

Nervous...YOU OWE HIS FRIEND NOTHING. You do not need to & you should not have disclosed details about your relationship!!!!!

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Posted by: allegro ( )
Date: November 11, 2017 11:00AM

I had to get into this. Trouble Not is correct, "The bishop may use the information to manipulate, control or damage your ex-lover, all of which is out of your hands, at this point. You can't un-ring that bell".
First of all, these "clergy" are not men "of the cloth". That is an insult to all clergy that have spent years in school, gained experience in counseling others,and assisting leaders to become leaders of a congregation. Mormon leadership could be lawyers, plumbers, mechanics, wall street, etc. They know nothing of how to lead a congregation until they are given a book of rules-that is it, a book of rules.
You owe him nothing and the Bishop asked to get information, not for the purpose of helping. NEVER reveal anything to these people. Many have ruined people's lives.

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Posted by: Greyfort ( )
Date: November 12, 2017 09:20AM

allegro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I had to get into this. Trouble Not is correct,
> "The bishop may use the information to manipulate,
> control or damage your ex-lover, all of which is
> out of your hands, at this point. You can't
> un-ring that bell".
> First of all, these "clergy" are not men "of the
> cloth". That is an insult to all clergy that have
> spent years in school, gained experience in
> counseling others,and assisting leaders to become
> leaders of a congregation. Mormon leadership could
> be lawyers, plumbers, mechanics, wall street, etc.
> They know nothing of how to lead a congregation
> until they are given a book of rules-that is it, a
> book of rules.
> You owe him nothing and the Bishop asked to get
> information, not for the purpose of helping. NEVER
> reveal anything to these people. Many have ruined
> people's lives.


^^ This.

A Mormon Bishop is not clergy. They have no training whatsoever in counselling or in the need to be discreet. They are not paid. They can have any kind of day job that the rest of us have.

They are only a Bishop for a certain amount of time and then another guy takes over as Bishop. Once a guy has been released from the calling of Bishop, he no longer needs to be privy to anyone's personal information. He has no more authority in that position. He is not 'clergy' anymore.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: November 11, 2017 11:58AM

mormon clergy ? I am a mormon priest. Am I mormon clergy ?

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: November 11, 2017 11:58AM

Keep your business private and find better ways to deal with such situations.

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Posted by: angela ( )
Date: November 11, 2017 12:13PM

Uh yea, not a very prudent way to deal with your private life, and that of another.

Something "bad"? Not sure if I would use that word, but definitely not wise.

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Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: November 11, 2017 07:34PM

You have a right to set boundries. Push back without giving them anything.

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Posted by: NeverMoJohn ( )
Date: November 11, 2017 08:26PM

This isn't about honesty, it is about discretion and privacy. You may have done as well if you took out an ad in the local paper.

You and your ex paramour will find out over the next few weeks just how many people know all about it.

“Two can keep a secret, if one of them is dead.” Benjamin Franklin.

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Posted by: Nervous ( )
Date: November 11, 2017 08:44PM

I didn't get the vibe this man was a gossip.WHO in the world would he tell, anyway? I more wondered if he would grill or lecture my old friend. Again, I spares the raw details. Now, the bishop told me that he'd keep it professional with him...THAT, I somehow doubt. I think bishop knew about us and just wanted more dirt. I suppose I obliged in exchange for a favor. I normally would never have dinw tbks, it was a moment of weakness on my part.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: November 12, 2017 08:26AM

He will tell his wife, who will tell her RS sisters, and word will get around. Or he will tell the current bishop who will tell *his* wife, possibly disfellowshipping the man, raising eyebrows, starting gossip, etc. There is no standard of privacy in Mormonism. Word can and does get around. Hopefully, your lawyer friend will not tell anyone. But I wouldn't count on it.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: November 12, 2017 08:47AM

He wouldn't have to tell his wife. He'd call a court of "love" to have the guy either disfellowshipped or excommunicated, and let the wife find out that way.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: November 12, 2017 08:45AM

Why would you disclose anything to a stranger?

It isn't any of his business to discuss your private matters with him, regarding you or your former beau.

Knowing he was the man's "clergy" in his church should've been another red flag.

He's someone your former beau should be able to go to if he decides to purge his soul. Not you.

Surely you understand there are boundaries there you crossed over?

That's rude and inconsiderate of former boyfriend. And shows a total lack of foresight on your part because you have no idea how much trouble you may have caused him because of it.

Unless you wanted to meddle in his personal life to get back at him. Otherwise I don't understand your motive for telling all to a complete stranger who has power ie authority over him.

If this isn't a joke, I sincerely suggest you get counseling.

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Posted by: Nervous and insulted! ( )
Date: November 12, 2017 12:56PM

This is not a joke, Amy. Yes, it was a weak moment on my part. The thought of him being hurt upsets me, and I truly hope the former bishop who is an attorney, will exercise the discretion he promised. I came here to find out what if he didn't,and feel worried tbh.

Another thing, he and I never had sex or oral (hope im allowed to post that here), and I didnt disclose anything sexual that we did do. On a feeling, I only admutted to hugging and kissing! I need to defend myself here. The fact that I possibly made a foolish statement hardly suggests a need for counseling. Was it wrong? Maybe, but there should be attorney client priveledge. Counseling....pfft.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: November 12, 2017 01:09PM

You aren't in an attorney client relationship with that man.

Your communications with him are not privileged. Nor do they fall under the clergy parishioner privilege.

There was a former bishop who has written a book about his experience of being excommunicated for having an extramarital relationship with another woman that was not sexual. Just for being emotionally involved got him into a court council where he was cut off from his church membership.

From there he was able to discover the fraud that was Mormonism, not before. My point is, what you don't know can hurt your ex-beau.

His former bishop has no duty to you, none whatsoever. If he decides to blow him into his ecclesiastical church authorities, that is his duty as a priesthood holder. That's his highest allegiance is to the cult. Not to you, or your "friend." Or to anyone else.

What you told him will not be kept secret. You can count on that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2017 01:10PM by Amyjo.

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Posted by: Nervous ( )
Date: November 12, 2017 01:20PM

Awful. Awful! All I can do is hope he isn't that terrible of a person, and if he does repeat it will be gossip and result in no discipline. I suppose I may never know, but now it will eat at me in addition to my unresolved feelings.Im going to try my best to forget about this. This is my old friends fault, too. I contacted him and asked for what I needed and got NOTHING. Thats why I turned around and asked this other guy who had done us a few favors.

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Posted by: NeverMoJohn ( )
Date: November 12, 2017 09:43PM

So this was payback?

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Posted by: Nervous ( )
Date: November 12, 2017 10:48PM

NeverMoJohn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So this was payback?


No, not at all.

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