ificouldhietokolob Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > saucie Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Ok you do Kevin and I do Roy. > > I'm not sure that came out sounding the way you > wanted it to, la saucie...:)
Yeah that just occured to me HIe..... I'm dorky today.
What you always get is, "If that were true, they would have come forward before." Let me tell you, you make decisions at the time that you cannot come forward, you are ok, others are ok, and most of all, no one would believe you. As time goes on, you see that you should have come forward in the first place, but now it's been even longer, you'll here "why didn't you say anything before," and there's even less of a chance you'll be believed. You'll be accused of making things up to bring someone down or because you have some vendetta against them. And you live with the guilt of knowing someone else could be violated. You have suspicions that maybe someone else was, but you just can't ask them--chances are that even if they were, they would deny it.
I'm so tired of these stories coming out and hearing things like "all these women just found out they could get fame or money if they jump on the bandwagon." No. There is strength in numbers. You realize that you just might be believed because you weren't the only one. You realize your story is exactly the same as someone else's. But for the most part, it's just kept stuffed away and maybe you'll find a good counselor who will help you work through it.
This story will go nowhere. It's Ala-effing-bama, ferchrissake. It's their Quickdraw McGraw hero. It's God's own hand-picked judge. It would be like someone accusing Romney in Utah. It's most likely completely true, but it still comes down to her word (a nobody) vs. his word (a man of gawd) in Gawdland.
As recently as September, Moore has stated America’s lack of faith in God for a multitude of immoral actions, including the 9/11 attacks.
He told supporters at a church event, “People are getting killed in the streets. Washington, D.C.? People are getting killed in the streets. Chicago has the highest murder rate you can imagine. All across our land we have child abuse, we have sodomy, we have murder, we have rape, we have all kind of immoral things happening because we have forgotten God.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2017 10:29PM by anybody.
Well, I guess the natural response to Moore the next time he spouts off about gay people being so immoral is: Well at least we're not talking about someone who is sexually abusing a 14 year old!!
“He’s clean as a hound’s tooth,” Alabama State Auditor Jim Ziegler said in an interview with The Washington Examiner, before invoking the Bible to defend Moore.
“Zachariah and Elizabeth for instance. Zachariah was extremely old to marry Elizabeth and they became the parents of John the Baptist,” Ziegler said. “Also take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus.”
I don't get why this now grown woman waited 40 years to make a news dump now that Roy's running for the Senate. Why didn't she do it 40 years ago?
It will be telling if he steps down. He's presumed innocent until found guilty if it were to go to trial.
It could be a political smear campaign by the opposing party.
Then the news was all over the story about a friend of Roy's making the comparison between him and Jesus Christ's parents, which is ludicrous. By the friend's assertion it would appear to be an admission of guilt, even as Roy declares his innocence.
"Then Mr Ziegler floated a religious justification, noting the age gap between the parents of Jesus Christ.
“Take Joseph and Mary”, Mr Ziegler told the Examiner. “Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus”. (Independent.co.UK)
AmyJo: Re why didn't she shout it out 40 yrs ago - she was 14 years old 40 yrs ago. He was a DA (or something like, sorry I'm unsure of his position at that time but it likely lent him a lot more credibility than she had). Plus, adult women say how difficult it is to speak up in these circumstances. Imagine being a young teen and feeling embarrassed or shy or unsure about anything to do with sexuality/sex to start with. One of the perversities of sexual harassment and assault is that it is the *victim* who feels the fear, the shame, the aloneness, and whose first instinct is to stay silent. Countless adult women don't speak up, perhaps ever, so I don't expect it's the immediate go-to position for younger females.
As for the allegations possibly being a cheap shot from a political opponent, apparently it's verified that she is a registered Republican, who voted for DJT.
I don't think too many women want to put themselves out there and go through the ringer on a lie about sexual abuse. And then there's the ring of truth, strength (and proof?) in numbers thing.
More likely, the time comes when a woman can finally speak out. I heard that the Moore accuser/victim chose this time because of the high office he is seeking. Maybe you can put up with an abuser being a sheriff, even a judge, but not a senator?
Disclaimer: I realize it's just at the allegation stage and innocent until proven guilty.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2017 11:29PM by Nightingale.
Not surprising that a teenager wouldn't have come out with it but it could've come out a LITTLE bit earlier, like six months ago or whenever Moore first announced his candidacy.
This is cutting it way close. Maybe it's good that it's getting publicity but there's not enough time before the election to do a proper investigation or rebuttal if any is possible.
It just seems strange why she wouldn't have told a trusted adult, after the incident who would have pressed charges.
To wait 40 years to announce it on the eve of his senatorial election (after years of his already being a state politician,) is rather suspicious sounding.
At least one little girl did tell her mother. Contemporaneous, or even delayed statement is in law regarded as evidence. As is true in the Weinstein case, the fact that some of the victims told others of what had happened renders them more credible. Moore faces the same problem.
So what if you are the mother of a girl, or a young woman, who has been abused? Would it have been good advice for that mother, ten years ago let alone 30 years ago, to tell her daughter to challenge one of the most important politicians in the state? Of course not. Did it help the accusers of Bill Clinton or Donald Trump to come forward? No, it did not. They were publicly embarrassed and often suffered career setbacks.
Why did all the Fox News women remain silent for so long? Because publicly accusing Roger Ayles or Bill O'Reilly could-and did--ruin women's careers. If women in their 30s and 40s felt it unsafe to speak publicly 10 or five years ago, how can you say that less-influential women 30 years ago in a conservative state like Alabama should have come forward?
Over the last few months, the tables are turned. It is no longer as dangerous to tell the truth. That is a good thing. And the fact that lots of women are speaking up does not mean that their delays indicate deception. What it indicates is that society is becoming less tolerant of sexual harassment and of those who would defend the harassers against credible statements by brave women.
If you realy think about it , if the Democrats were behind this they would want Roy to be elected . Then every Republican would need to be stating their opinion about thier GOP buddy Moore .The party of "family values" .Now the party of a woman groping President and a pedo Senator .
A main reason Trump was elected was his opponent HRC. I did not vote for either. Many other democrats either stayed home or voted for some third party person or wrote in Bernie. I could not bring myself to vote for HRC. The GOP is between a rock and a hard place with Moore . Lose a seat or have Moore as a U.S. Senator. Moore if elected will bring down every GOP candidate who runs in 2018 unless they completely and clearly state something similar to what Willard Mitt said today about Moore.
I think you are wrong on this, Amyjo. The costs to abused girls and women (and boys and men) of going public are considerable. Every defendant is entitled to a legal presumption of innocence, but when multiple people come forward with consistent stories it is important to give them the presumption of sincerity.
What I am saying is that if several women come out and independently say very similar things about a man, they are probably telling the truth. Our society gives the legal presumption of innocence to a person accused of a crime but that does not mean we have to ignore the credible accusations of people who have been abused.
Is Weinstein legally innocent? At this point, yes. Does that mean his accusers are lying? Almost certainly not. Is the Alabama moron legally innocent? Pending a trial, yes. But it is absurd to say that the women who independently and consistently claim that he abused them, at great danger to themselves, are being disingenuous.
Legal presumptions do not preclude us--or even permit us--to throw up our hands and say that the probable is improbable. When impressionable and timid girls hesitate to report the crimes of the powerful, with good evidence that doing so will harm them and not the abuser, it is irresponsible to argue that heir delays render them unbelievable.
Besides there being no presumption of sincerity in the law, and add to that there are several women coming forward now in his countdown to a general election. It does *beg* the question of timing.
Where were these women before now?
If it had bothered the now 54 year old woman to come forward, she's had a lifetime to do so.
Politics are both dirty and ugly. Anyone who's worked in or near politics knows how willing some are to lie and malign others for political or personal gain.
At this juncture I presume neither innocence or guilt of either party. The woman in this case is making unfounded accusations that supposedly took place more than 40 years ago. While the accused (only in the court of "public opinion,") calls it "fake news."
It's too soon for me to make a call or an opinion other than I don't know because the jury is out.
First, innocent until proven guilty applies to the government's right to put someone in prison. We're perfectly free to form an opinion based on whatever information we have, and act on that opinion.
Second, there are four named accusers. It is very difficult for multiple people to convincingly tell a fabricated story. It should be easy to find inconsistencies if the stories are made up.
The reporters had 30 sources for their story. There will be plenty of investigation, but there is a hell of a lot of smoke, and Repubs are not rushing to Moore's defense so far.
The people on here must not have been sexually assaulted to make these comments. If they have been sexually assaulted did they immediately come out and tell others? Years ago while living in Southern Utah, St George to be exact, I worked as a real estate agent at Coldwell Banker and while there the Broker came on to me and tried to get me to stay in Salt Lake City with him. When I refused he name called me and took my listings away which prompted me to give up real estate as I was ill and overwhelmed by the degree of harassment I went through by other realtors.I had thought of making a complaint but was afraid as I did not have any support and knew that the Mormon Old Boys club would destroy me as he was from one of the prominent Mormon families in the area. Utah has always been rampant with sexual wrongdoing because women are second class and men feel they can do anything to us. Unless you have been sexually harassed or otherwise assaulted you have no room to make judgments. A womans lot is not an easy one in Utah.
No worries, folks. The word here in Alabama is that Jesus and Moore and his sheer righteousness will overcome the trinity of evil: Satan, Hillary and Obama. This is a battle of Good and Evil!
Sigh... I am afraid NormaRae, Dagny, Lot's wife and others are correct. There is no reason to not believe these women. Yes, it is just allegations at this point. However, they are too convincing to be anything other than true. I live less than an hour from Alabama. The religious fervor here masks corruption and incompetence. All one has to do is claim to be a man of god and you are in. We had a congressional candidate stop by my house last summer before the primary. His entire campaign was centered around that he was a Christian. The pamphlet he handed me was amazing. It was simply religious propaganda. Being a Christian was his only qualification. I blasted him at the door for failing to comprehend there are people who are non-Christians living in his district. It went completely over his head. I rarely swear, but I started swearing at this idiot. He lost the primary.
Unfortunately folks here will believe someone if they claim to be a godly person. Roy Moore will win.
It's been my experience that when a female makes a sex allegation against a prominent older man her life is ruined no matter if the allegaton is true or false. Just look at Monica Lewinksy. If it's false, who set it up? Who is paying them? What arrangments have been made for them after this is over? What do they have to gain? So far, I've not seen anything like that in this case.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2017 12:20PM by anybody.
"Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections. I believe Leigh Corfman. Her account is too serious to ignore. Moore is unfit for office and should step aside." -- Mitt Romney
The Weinstein train keep rolling. People are talking about what happened to them, and not just in Hollywood/the entertainment industry. These stories sound quite credible to me.
Roy Moore has spent his entire career showing nothing but contempt for the law and judicial ethics. He now wants us to believe him over these women. Right out of the gate, I am far more predisposed to believe the women, than a man who has repeatedly proven himself to be dishonest and contemptuous of the laws that he has sworn to uphold.