I really like the tag-team of Zelph on the Shelf, the poet and his Brit sidekick. They are funny. Great use of poetry and satire. Their "dub" videos of Mormon leaders is hilarious. Even their mockery is never done with a mean spirit, but something closer to the gentle mockery of "The Book of Mormon Musical". Similar to mocking your dog or cat.

Like many Mormons, they went from True Believing Mormons, to Atheists, after they discovered that Joseph Smith was a sexual predator, and that the BOM, BOA, KP (Kinderhook Plates), Lamanite DNA, and 500 other "facts" that pretty much nail the coffin shut on Mormonism being of Divine origin. Common thing. Happens often. The thinking is like this:

"Since Joseph Smith claimed to see angels, and be a Prophet, and he was a fraud, it follows that, anyone and everyone who claims to be a prophet and to see angels, or ghosts, must also be lying or delusional."

Personally, I don't "see" the "logic" (?) in that, but, many ex-Mormons do. However, they had an "incident" that turned them from Atheists to "Spiritual again". Can you guess what it was? It was pretty dramatic.

Sorry, the standard of evidence is similar.

There is no way to sort the "in my head" type of evidence or "I just believe it" without externally verifiable, replicable evidence.

We get you and others have personal experiences. That's great, but until you can figure out a way to meet the criteria needed (external examination), you are only making the case that our scientific education is poor. You cannot even rule out the more plausible explanations for your claims without demanding people just accept your claims. What is more common? That someone would lie or that a law of physics bends for them? That's why you need extraordinary evidence.

When we read about your claims in scientific literature (and I look forward to it) with the results of their studies presenting the facts, then maybe you will have some credibility. Until now, you are coming off as a kook.

By the way, every random neuron firing brain fart you have does not deserve a thread. Good God. Ask a ghost for brains.

Dagny,

1. Where did I "demand" that people accept my claims?

2. I've asked nobody to "accept without proof" my claims of having supernatural experiences. I merely share them with others. "Some" of the people who read exmormon.org have also had paranormal experiences.

3. There is "evidence" of the paranormal, both anecdotal (massive) and photographic evidence. There are hundreds (if not thousands) of personal witness testimony on the Internet, as well as thousands of photos and videos. I don't believe that 100% of said photos/videos are fabricated, although I will admit some/many have been.

4. I KNOW the "reason why" Zelph on the Shelf (i.e. the Poet and the Brit) are "spiritual again". But, I don't wish to speak for them. When the time is right, they will speak about it. But I "think" I had something to do with it. Perhaps not, but I "think" I did. And that had nothing to do with sharing "my" paranormal experiences with them. I "think" it had to do with they were confronted with the paranormal, and had to admit the supernatural existed. I could be wrong. I won't speak for them.

5. All of the things I have shared on exmormon.org, and Reddit, really happened; things I really saw. All "hallucination"? What is a "hallucination"? A "hallucination" is a vision of another dimension. Other dimensions are real too. Men and women who take Hayauasca (spellling?) have hallucinations, but, what is a "hallucintation"? 20,000 people in Egypt at one time "saw" Mary floating above a Coptic Church, at night, and it was photographed, and the photographs were published. I have neither lied nor exaggerated. In fact, I HAVE LEFT OUT the most dramatic things that I've seen/heard/experienced.

6. Nowhere, in no place, have I "demanded" that others "accept" my experiences. You can accept them, or reject them, as you please. But I will always insist I HAD THEM, because "I DID". What Joseph Smith claimed, or Sun Myung Moon claimed, or what Chris Nemelka claimed, has NOTHING to do with what I really saw, and really experienced.

7. There are hundreds of ghosts caught on tape, which I believe are authentic (out of the thousands on YouTube which claim to be ghosts caught on tape). I KNOW that I've had psychic flashes that came true. I can only say "watch this" or "read that". If you simply DO NOT WANT to watch this or read that, then there is nothing I can do about it. A man convinced against his will...is of the same opinion still. Thank you.




dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry, the standard of evidence is similar.
>
> There is no way to sort the "in my head" type of
> evidence or "I just believe it" without
> externally verifiable, replicable evidence.
>
> We get you and others have personal experiences.
> That's great, but until you can figure out a way
> to meet the criteria needed (external
> examination), you are only making the case that
> our scientific education is poor. You cannot even
> rule out the more plausible explanations for your
> claims without demanding people just accept your
> claims. What is more common? That someone would
> lie or that a law of physics bends for them?
> That's why you need extraordinary evidence.
>
> When we read about your claims in scientific
> literature (and I look forward to it) with the
> results of their studies presenting the facts,
> then maybe you will have some credibility. Until
> now, you are coming off as a kook.
>
> By the way, every random neuron firing brain fart
> you have does not deserve a thread. Good God. Ask
> a ghost for brains.

"Where did I 'demand' that people accept my claims?"

You throw a fit and call people fools if they don't believe you.

Yep.
Over and over and over again.
In all caps.

Who I've been ignoring and will continuue to ignore.

I just want to point out that this poster has discovered a nice juicy button that, when pushed, provides a dose of narcissistic supply and a new crop of victims to verbally harass and abuse.

We don't owe this person an argument when they've proved time and again, that they are here to cross boundaries. In the meantime I intend to donate to an atheist organization in honor of posts I've had to sift through from this poster in recent days.

Edited because the first version was admittedly too hostile.:-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2017 10:19AM by ptbarnum.

+1. I usually just click on a post because of the title but lately I've started looking to see if it is by psychic and then skip it. This morning I just came to this one out of curiosity to see why anyone was still responding--not that there is anything wrong with that. It just seems that we are beating a dead horse. Your post says it all for me.

I don't believe you.

psychic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The thinking is like
> this:
>
> "Since Joseph Smith claimed to see angels, and be
> a Prophet, and he was a fraud, it follows that,
> anyone and everyone who claims to be a prophet and
> to see angels, or ghosts, must also be lying or
> delusional."

Once again, you put up a ridiculous straw-man to argue against, and then claim you don't see the logic in it. Of course you don't -- you made it up.

The "thinking" usually goes like this:

Clearly, I fell for outrageous claims, and believed them, without checking to see if evidence supported them. That's not a good idea. From now on, when somebody makes a claim, I'll check to see if evidence supports it or not. If it doesn't, I won't believe it.

See how much more rational and logical that is than your made-up version?

And here's the fun part: once you take that approach, ALL religious claims don't merit "belief." Neither do your claims of "ghosts." And so on.

As I suggested in the previous thread you started, where you also made up straw-man "atheist arguments," try being honest instead of dishonestly making up crap in your premises. It's far more reasonable.

psychic, I rarely ask folks to wander off elsewhere. This request only happens a couple of times per year. Your silly claims and straw men arguments do not work here. In fact, they are preaching. Please take a break for awhile and review the board rules.

Eric K Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> psychic, I rarely ask folks to wander off
> elsewhere. This request only happens a couple of
> times per year. Your silly claims and straw men
> arguments do not work here. In fact, they are
> preaching. Please take a break for awhile and
> review the board rules.


Emphasis on PLEASE!!!