Not even close. More like a suppressed and controlled idiot by a bunch of businessmen. This was always a problem for me. They always said that they knew the real christ and followed him but it never felt that way to me. I want to believe that there really was a badass dude that existed that fought for the weak and the disabled and the lonely and the depressed. Not a money hungry businessman leading a cult. This has always bothered me so i have to say it somewhere.

BadAss! You've more than once made comments that have a similar theme.

I'd encourage you to study up on the distinction between "Mormon Jesus," and Jesus of the Bible. I suspect the latter is who you are looking for when you lament the spiritual side (or lack thereof) of your Mormon experience. Mormon Jesus is NOT the Jesus of grace and love.

When asked what the greatest commandments were Jesus (of the Bible) said 1) Love God (ok, no brainer), and 2) love your neighbor. Mormons do not love their neighbors, and are not encouraged to. Jesus (of the Bible) said, "if you love me, feed my sheep." Mormons don't feed anybody's sheep (and are loathe to even feed their own).

Part of your frustration, I suspect, is due to cognitive dissonance between what Mormons claim to be (striving to be Christlike), and what they actually are. They are nothing like Jesus at all. Not in words. Not in deeds. Not even in definition.

Best of luck to you as you continue healing, and on your spiritual journey.

I swear i have memory problems. Maybe this is a cogdis thing or whatever, i think i have a lot of this.

Your cog dis is legit. Mormonism is BS. And Mormons are liars. The "truth" you expect to find in Mormons or Mormonism just is not there. Traditional Christianity is going to hit much closer on the mark of what you were looking for, or at least what you were hoping or expecting to find in Mormonism.

Christians aren't perfect either, but Joseph's Myth was self serving bullshit from start to finish

Remember, Adam, cults and other religious figures set themselves up as intermediaries between you and God. Or substitutes for God. Sometimes it just happens, but with cultists like JS, it's deliberate. The Bible Book of Hebrews says, "there is one intermediary between God and man, the man Jesus Christ." You know how dangerous LDS is when JS set himself up as one of the gatekeepers to Heaven.

Search christianbook (one word) and click on the first, top hit. You'll find lots and lots of good stuff to explore and read. I REALLY recommend the ESV Study Bible. The notes and charts explain things very well, and it's not King James, which is best avoided because of the LDS associations it will have for you. It also deals with the "late authorship/Jesus is a myth" arguments the atheists love.

A good book to start with is called "More Than A Carpenter." Very readable. Also, search LDS [NOT "Mormon" which brings up MTC music CDs (unfortunately)]. And check out Lynn Wilder's autobiography, "Unveiling Grace." She was a BYU professor who left LDS for Protestant Christianity.

Adam, I'm going to speak bluntly, which may be offensive. You do a lot of posting on this board, and a lot of it is full of self-pity. Sorry if I hurt, but that's the truth, and you have to do something about it. Make a decision each day to do a few small, but concrete, things, to improve your life and separate yourself off from the things that hurt and distress you. It's an unfortunate fact that people get very comfortable with their unhappiness, and I suspect that may be happening with you. And as people respond to your complaints, you get a form of recognition and attention which you substitute for real friendships and relationships.

So there, I've said it. Just knuckle down and do a few things that are authentic and self-improving. The reading I suggested can be a part of all that. Do something every day. We all love you, Adam, but we want to do right by you!

Ex-cult Bro' hugs, Bro! :)

I realized something that maybe i don't need the board my mind is definitely stronger just like i don't need mormonism. What the hell is the purpose of this place if not to vent, hang out? Take the f#cking site down if you are just here to hangout. I just have physical pains that i am trying to take care of really that makes me vent i don't care if anybody responds i already know i have been through the most besides maybe donbagley, the mormon bullsh#t just started it all so it is in my head and i got to get all of that sh#t out of my head somewhere. Are there not other people here that destroyed themselves on purpose because of the mormon church or am i the only one? And get to pay for it every f#cking day, my body is half-bionic for christ's sake. You sound like my mormon parents or the mormon leaders, just get over and move on, move on to f#cking what? So go back to your stupid coffee and get out of my way. And you are right we are not friends and never saw you as such. I use the board to vent until all my issues are resolved, physical, mental, and emotional. I don't care what people say to me i will get better, i have been told to sit down and shut up my whole f#cking life by mormons, by ex-mormons, by christians, the only people that never tell me to shut up are the ones that never had religion to begin with and those are my people. So go back to what you think is a real life and make sure to drink your coffee because it is so f#cking "rebellious" for an ex-mo to drink f#cking coffee give me a break and let the professionals continue to put me back together. They know what they are doing, kind of. The mormons have no clue and you have no clue and that much is clear. So all i have to do is hit a point where i don't want to put a bullet in my head because of pain, and that is the only goal really. I have three REAL friends that are dead and i only try to figure this sh#t out for them and because i am pissed about what happened to us in this hell that some people call life. I am f#cking mad we were all born in a cult that completely turned against us with no god in sight to f#cking defend us from our families and our leaders and now i will have to become a really mean person to survive and i don't want to do that and trust me the world doesn't want me to do that. But f#ck it i have to get better at any costs while everyone else lives in f#cking la la land. Boner is legit though, might be the only man older than me that i have ever respected. Everybody else is no man. Go hunt a deer and f#ck off.

Hey Adam I just wanted to let you know I totally understand your frusteration ive had people tell me to just "get over it" about bad things that have happened to me before and I'm sorry that is just not how things work unfortunately. It didn't help me it made me feel like sh#t. The cold hard truth is that life is extremely unfair and its not just "happy" "happy" "joy" "joy" all the time and some peoples lives are much harder than others. And I believe we need to be there for them and not just tell them to "suck it up" It sounds like you've been through a lot in life and you have every right to vent. Sometimes venting can be very therapeutic and I know ive used this board to vent quite a bit myself. The mormon church sure put me through a lot of sh#t as well and I think its important to be able to let out your frusteration and not feel like you have to bottle it all up.

I think its important to realize not everyone can just simply "choose" to be happy go lucky all the time ive had that said to me and its just not the truth. You REALLY need to put yourself in someones shoes before you can judge that you just do. Life takes a lot more effort for some than others and Adam I can tell your trying very hard to improve your life! And honestly Adam l admire you for your honesty. Your a real authentic person. Your not some fake mormon robot and I think thats great I think its important to realize people in a lot of pain are not just faking it to "get attention" and enjoy the "self pity" there pain is usually legit. I am sorry you have had to go through all that you have had to go through I cant claim to understand everything you have been through in life its sounds like you've been through more than me but if you ever need someone to talk to you can always talk to me and I will try my very best to help you out.
I truely hope the best for you.

And for the record Adam I DO consider you my real friend and so does Boner and a lot of people here.

I was initially tickled to see "Amen to Distinction's Remarks!" But I have to confess that I was disappointed to see the post segue into a get-with-the-program sort of narrative. IMO, coming here to vent is "do[ing] something about it." You're taking charge of your own life and setting the terms by which you'll live it. That's very "bad ass" IMO. So keep it up!

I'm gonna suggest that caffeined sounds like an imperfect Christian: someone who wants the best for you, but is a little misguided. OTOH, Mormons are not only misguided, but want you to surrender to their B.S. because it makes them feel better (even though it makes you feel worse). It's actually a pretty good example of the distinction between Mormons and traditional Christians.

Mormonism and Christianity share a problem: they are both "run" by fallable human beings. The big difference between them is that Mormonism is bull$hit, and Christianity is not. And even if you don't believe Christianity is true, at least it's less damaging: they don't demand all your time and money, they let you walk away if you want to, they have no secrets, etc.

The essence of Christianity is between you and God. No middlemen, no rituals, no playing favorites. Just you and the Bible.

Anyway, just keep doing what's best for YOU! You're gonna beat this sooner or later.

Yes i don't think i would have a problem with traditional christianity if i am ever up to set foot in a "holy" building again. I have craved no secrets and no rituals for so d@mn long in the mormon church that it is not even funny. I do not think i would have a problem with a 30 minute discussion of the new testament once a month you know. I don't want to be a hateful cold blooded atheist because of the damage that has been done to me my entire life. It seems like a horrible way to live people are already hating me that live around me, figured this would happen if i stayed here too long. but the anger is real and suppressing it is not healthy and suppressing how i felt in the church nearly killed me within and it still hasn't died. It was all incorrect and i just felt like a numbered sheep being counted by the ward clerk and see him counting the money after church. It was bullsh#t. I was used, abused, and raped mentally and financially, manipulated, physically abused by my mormon parents and a mormon leader. In my mind i still want payback but it is only natural. I really just want to dissolve the church somehow so they don't know what to do with themselves for the rest of their days, i think that is a reasonable revenge. But i have been messed with in many ways for way too d@mn long, my only saving grace is my counseling i swear. I want my head screwed on like my counselors are that is another goal. Trying to resolve all my health issues and becoming my authentic self is the hardest thing i have ever done, and i have done some hard things like quitting smoking for example. Quitting a cult the right way that you were born in is about a million times harder. I can see why people just say f#ck it and go back to be raped again until they die.

And i can not surrender. I feel like i am in a creepy movie where they keep knocking on my door every other day. But i am not healthy enough or strong enough to battle them yet. Abusers thrive in the cult and some of us are still paying the consequences but they never seem to feel any consequences so they keep pounding on my door. It is so creepy no wonder i never fit in. Why do abusers always go strong no matter what they have done? I have no idea. Badass signing out quietly.

Badassadam1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Trying to resolve all my health issues and
> becoming my authentic self is the hardest thing i
> have ever done, and i have done some hard things
> like quitting smoking for example.

Glad you quit smoking, Adam. I am in my 60s, and at a high school reunion this summer, I realized that everyone I could think of in my high school class who started smoking in high school and kept it up over the years, is either dead or suffering from some debilitating illness probably related to smoking. One long-term dedicated smoker, for example, came to the reunion with tubes sticking up his nose and carrying a portable oxygen machine.

I have heard the whole get-with-the-program my whooole life it is very old and it always comes from people atleast twice my age that just watch jeopardy everyday or something like it. It gets old and those people never seem to die off and get-with-the-death program. Nobody wants their judgements and hypocrisy i know people that have killed themselves over what they say. Why don't the elderly take themselves out for a change instead of the youth so they can shut the hell up, you have ruined this f#cking country before i was born and then you tear my generation apart because we don't want to live your cult nonsense or watch your stupid shows or live the way you do. Sorry i am just pissed i have heard it all i was born in a strong cult family. There is nothing i have not heard like repitious robots saying the same god d@mn things to each other over and over and over and over. You and your god or gods can go to hell together while i try to heal on this planet for no reason apparently except to hide from mormons and play cards and get surgery. It is so awesome to still be here, look at the snow and look at the trees and the birds, what a beautiful place to all be crammed together still. Too many people in this world waaay too many, there should be population laws to only have one child nobody has a clue why they are even alive anyways not even my psychiatrist knew the meaning of life so there ya go. F#ck this cold weather. I am too tired to keep fighting i really am, all the people that are older than me can have this planet i dont want it and i never wanted it, my mom should have had an abortion, it was a big mistake to be born, but some of the music was alright but not worth it, rather just be an intelligence without a body very very far away from here.

Isn't that one definition of a cult? Following the cults teachings that only masquarade and twist "real" teachings? I'm at work on my so that's the crappy short version.

Hidden, secret teachings show up in cults fairly often, and are an indicator of other problems. As I see it, these secret teachings are sometimes outrageous, and the cult/cult leaders just don't want to scare off the newbies, so they're held back. Example: Can you imagine a missionary telling an investigator about polygamy in the CK?

Sometimes a proselyte has to prove himself "worthy" before he is told these things, such as the secrets/sacred practices of the temple.

I can tell you all these things because I am a Level XX Operating Cretin. I hang out with Xenu and know deep, deep, deep, DEEP spiritual mysteries!

I think beliefs are very personal and everyone thinks and feels different. Everyone's experiences are different. So I'd hear all the lessons and testimonies and I always knew I didn't see things the way they did. I wasn't one to bear my testimony. My beliefs were something I didn't feel I needed to share.

Sharing the 'gospel' through missionary work was always a ridiculous idea to me. I always felt if someone wanted to be mormon, they'd search it out themselves.

And after I left the church, I realized I never really bought into JS.

So don't ask me why it took me so long to get out.

I always tried so hard to do the right thing, and for every right thing I did, they always asked or ordered more, and whatever I had just done was never enough. It was a bottomless pit of them taking, me giving.


Badass wrote:

>>>"I want to believe that there really was a badass dude that existed that fought for the weak and the disabled and the lonely and the depressed."

^^^^^^ This, badass, this one.

This guy exists, and is "the guy" to follow, if you must follow anyone. This guy is a perfect leader. These are yearnings we were born with, and you can honor him, these things, all on your own.

You have great instincts, and can safely, soundly, trust in yourself. No belief involved. You know who you are.


Those unable to appreciate your courage and honor, the things you are doing to get better, how hard you work at it, how much you have accomplished, how far you have come, - they are blind. Their best pity is reserved for themselves. Remember that. They point fingers, not understanding that they are describing themselves, not the ones at whom they're pointing.

Ignore people who try to shame you while telling you about "the love of Christ." You can write them off, right out of the gate. Shame and love don't sync up, don't match, and it's easy to spot that sort of manipulation, no matter how "popular" a given speaker might be. "Popularity" does not equate to "correct."

I don't trust people - any one - who tells me to be "a follower." Pretty damn presumptuous to assume I can't be a leader, wouldn't you say?

I don't really know who i am. I have been told that i used to be one of god's top soldiers but i really don't care about that, only mormons have told me this so i don't take it too seriously. I will say this though i am different then everyone else maybe not in a good way. The mormons called me a noble and great one, i think they are mentioned in the bible. I never even heard of this until they told me this. I always felt like i was part of a group that nobody knew about though, my best friend knew more than i did, i know this all sounds weird but i can not explain myself its like i have a little amnesia for sure about it all. But i have felt lost for a very long time, belonging no where.

Push the lies aside badass, like you can't hear them. You were born onto this earth, and you belong here, as a part of nature.

You are not different, you are unique. The mormon way is to pump you up, cut you down, pump you up, cut you down. It is a manipulation to keep you off-balance. Ignore their lies. You are uniquely, beautifully you, complete. You don't need their labels to be yourself or make your dreams come true.

You don't have to explain feeling like you have amnesia, if you are describing "features of disassociation." It happens with PTSD sometimes. Ask your counselor about it - it's an important clue to help you recover.

You belong on earth. Mormons called you noble and great, and then treated you like a scapegoat and abused you. Your confusion upon exiting their mind games is to be expected, don't you think? And, what the hell is a "noble scapegoat" anyway?!

You DO know who you are. You are honest, funny, authentic, and a whole bunch of other things I can't even remember right now. You like to help those who are hurting, so you're a giver. You reach out for help, so you are open. If you try to match up the mormon labels to your authentic self, you are going to be confused - who wouldn't be?!

I once read that abused people don't trust those who pay them compliments, because they never were taught to feel worthy enough to believe good things about themselves. I have some first-hand knowledge about feeling that way.

I want to clear the air right this minute. I don't have you on some pedestal, or think that you're perfect or anything. I think you've likely made your fair share of mistakes and struggled through some hard and dark times. I think you're human.

I think you're as real as a tree, and can be free as a bird. I think you're locating the pieces of you that were buried under piles of mormon bullshit. I think that under all that muck is a human being, who can't wait to dig himself out. I think you make progress every day.

I think you can do this.

Be kind to yourself. :)

Don't worry about JC Adam. I think JS said he will carry us on his back-load. It's all taken care of.

Even though I thought that I was a real follower of christ when I was a TBM, that ended when I realized that mormonism is a cult, which only wants the 10% of the brethren's income.
After that I became agnostic but I still think that the Jesus of the bible has some good values, he's not a guy whose church's most valuable things are silly handshakes and BS.

Me neither. Just a bunch of words in a couple books that I have yet to and never will, read.

I felt like I was never good enough. I didn't have the burning in my bosom. I thought there was something I wasn't doing right. I followed all the rules. I did what was required. Once I went to the temple, the highest level on earth, (I wasn't aware of second anointing at the time) it would all make sense.

Then it was like the Leah Remini Scientology special on A&E. You pay almost half a million dollars to get to the top level and everything is the same. The temple scared the shit out of me. I had a member lie about what is done in the temple and they thought they were hilarious.

I agree Abby. I never had the burning in the bosom either, even though I fasted and prayed The temple also terrified me, which was more guilt inducing because everyone else raved about how spiritual it was. I know a lot of people disavow religion after leaving mormonism, but I found a different church where the emphasis is on mercy and not perfection.

Grief and pain don't work that way. You have to do this in your own time and your own way. Don't let them get you down. I had that happen to me, too. That is why I started in therapy and still go (though not nearly as often). My son used to tell me that a therapist is a paid friend. Well, when nobody else wants to listen, it sure is nice to have someone who listens, who isn't involved in the dramas, who can give you perspective. I can say now that my therapist is my friend as he is. But I still go to him as a therapist. He knows my story inside and out. He was there when nobody else was.

I say post all you want. There are those of us here who at least some idea of what you are going through.