I've made comments on this board and have been called out about still thinking like a Mormon. After a moment of anger I realize the person is right. I'm 67 and have been out about four years. Over the last several years I've realized a lot of things about myself not directly related to the church. My thought patterns are slowly changing but those 60+ years in the church imprinted definite patterns of thought that are very hard to change. I appreciate being called out even though I initially take it as a personal attack. I'd like to know that others out there have this same problem. Thanks.

It’s like having a severe leg infection when you’re young. It leaves you with a permanent limp. Many of the exmos I meet still have that weirdly Mormon countenance.

I think it gets better over time. You can’t totally get rid of it though.m

I think that my wife is on a path out of the church, though she may not even be aware of it; and her path is different than yours in that it is her evolving thinking patterns that will lead her out rather than what she may yet learn about the church.

As she's become less active, I've noticed that her day-to-day problem solving has become less spirit-driven and more logic-driven. I've even witnessed her consciously "countermand" the Holy Spirit when she looked at the choices before her and reasoned that the logical choice was the actually the best choice.

If and when she leaves, it will be because she wakes up one day and realizes that she doesn't need the Holy Spirit to tell her what she can figure out for herself.

I might say that whoever said you think like a mormon might also be thinking like a mormon as it isn't normal to make such comments in normal society.

Mormon thinking evolves over time, especially if we see it in ourselves and work on it. Some it might be a good thing and there's no reason to thwart it. In any case, we're all normal if our thinking reflects our early training and doesn't cause us serious problems.

Cheryl Wrote:
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> I might say that whoever said you think like a
> mormon might also be thinking like a mormon as it
> isn't normal to make such comments in normal
> society.
>
> Mormon thinking evolves over time, especially if
> we see it in ourselves and work on it. Some it
> might be a good thing and there's no reason to
> thwart it. In any case, we're all normal if our
> thinking reflects our early training and doesn't
> cause us serious problems.

Thanks Cheryl. I really appreciate your comments!

Being a nudist is a Big step away, ja ja

Tom, I was only a mormon for the first 21 years of my life, and I've NOT been one for nearly 37 years.

And yet now and then I still find myself with an initial reaction to something that's decidedly "mormon thinking."

Those first 21 years embedded patterns in my brain. Despite working for 37 years to learn new patterns, they still raise their ugly head now and then. It takes conscious consideration of how and why I react/think the way I do with some things. to recognize them, and over-ride them.

Sure, that happens far less often now than it did 30 years ago. Or 20. Or even 10. But it still happens.

When they say, "...train up a child..." they have a reason. Indoctrination is very effective. But it'll get better. You're already on the way, by recognizing when somebody points out a "mormon pattern." You'll probably recognize them yourself, without any prompting, before too long. That's the first step to minimizing them. Hang in there :)

Thanks. Good to know I'm not alone.

Tom Padley Wrote:
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> Thanks. Good to know I'm not alone.

*That,* my friend, is the entire purpose of this site. :)

At least you have criticized yourself, which is clearly not a mormon thinking pattern.

boom!

do you want to erase yourself

Tom, I subscribe that one can change patterns of thought through cognitive self-talk. It happens when one decides to monitor one’s thoughts to strengthen desired patterns and weaken undesired ones.

For example, sometimes I feel Mormon shame for no apparent reason. In other words, I haven’t done anything wrong, but my thought process is causing me uneasiness. When I become aware that I’m feeling shame, I start questioning myself as to why I’m thinking illogically. Generally, that works, I realize I’m thinking negatively or adopting a shaming perspective. Fuck that! I don’t want or need those thoughts.

The same process can be used with undesired Mormon thought processes. Just become aware of any thought processes that you don’t like. Then talk to yourself about the illogic of them. Then, let them go.

I suggested to the Badass that he take small pieces of toilet paper and write anything he wanted to get ride of on them. Then, toss them into the toilet and take a long and hearty piss, finishing with a flush.

Along with Cheryl, I did not think there’s anything wrong with thinking like a Mormon, atheist, exmormon, etc. It’s only wrong when those thoughts cause you hurt, anger, or frustration.

The Book of Mormon taught us that our thoughts would condemn us. That’s a pretty sick teaching. No wonder there’s so much depression in the LDS community. Best wishes Tom! Boner.

BYU Boner Wrote:
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> Along with Cheryl, I did not think there’s
> anything wrong with thinking like a Mormon,
> atheist, exmormon, etc. It’s only wrong when
> those thoughts cause you hurt, anger, or
> frustration.

I especially like the comment about lifelong thought patterns causing hurt, anger, or frustration. I've talked to my psychologist son about this same thing. I'm trying to let it all go, but maybe I'm trying too hard to rid myself of Mormon thought patterns. I need to just let go, be myself and get over the pain I inflict upon myself. Good advice from Boner and Cheryl. Thanks!

I think I was one of the people who called you out on a Mormon thinking pattern. The reason I did, what that I, too, had been stuck in that same pattern, and it was causing me to dislike others, and it was ruining my happiness. I meant to help you.

It does help to be aware of "wrong thinking" when it happens. Otherwise, how would you ever be able to stop? I still have to tell myself: "Stop this, right now. Good job. Now, turn that thinking around." Often, Mormon "logic" is so skewed, that it is almost the opposite of being rational. Remember all the times church leaders told you that something good was bad, and something bad was good. Something you hated was supposed to be something you enjoyed. Something you enjoyed was supposed to be wicked. I could go on and on, and I'll bet that you could find a specific example of each one, taken from your own Mormon experiences.

A lot of this skewed Mormon thinking is applied to our own self: we aren't good enough, we don't do enough, we don't pay enough money, we aren't worthy, we aren't perfect. We are BAD, because of Adam, and need to spend our lives trying to EARN God's love. Here's another damaging thought: you are going to a lesser Heaven, where you will be separated from your family, forever.

Probably, we will all have to keep after ourselves, giving ourselves a lot of cognitive self-talk, self-love, and encouragement. When I first left the cult, I was depressed, and was always punishing myself, for no valid reason.

Say "No" to humility.
Say "No" to forgiving those who abuse you.
Say "No" to con artists and liars.

It did take me awhile to unwind "mormon-think" from how I perceived things.

First step, like you have noticed too, is to note that, yea, I was thinking like a Mormon and using Mormon-thinking.

When I could identify when I was doing it, then I was able to step back, and think things thru.

In time, yes, I was able to stop "mormon-thinking"

"mormon think" is all about fear and obedience. Fear that if you don't do things right according to TSCC's dictates, or if you dare to step out of the bubble, you'll lose your family forever or that the sky will fall in on you! We've been out for a couple of years now, and I still have difficulty letting go of the fear. For example, I still keep calling and putting family names on prayer roles on a regular basis because of fear what will happen if I don't. It's so irrational, and I'm hoping someday to get rid of this fearful, superstitious "mormon-thinking".

Google "automatic thinking scripts" or "automatic thinking" and you will come up with a number of relevant hits.

Board member SusieQ#1 has written about automatic thinking scripts on a number of occasions. Here is an archived thread with her thoughts on the matter, and some hard-won wisdom from other board members:

http://exmormon.org/d6/drupal/Does-the-anger-ever-end

I can tell you as a born-and-raised Catholic that I lived with similar automatic thinking scripts for many years, especially regarding sexuality. It was like my thinking, rational mind was far ahead of my religiously-conditioned mind. What helped was the mature reflection that comes with time and experience. I finally came to the conclusion, "It's just sex." It's not deserving of the mental angst that so often comes along for the ride. No one ever suffered any lasting damage from my mutually agreeable sexual encounter with them. Nor did I.

As for people with very different lifestyles and opinions, my go-to thought has become, "They don't need my permission to be happy." Also, "It's a big country, and there is room for everyone." My career in urban education has definitely made me a more tolerant and broad-minded person.

The late Blair Watson wrote about the psychological effects of Mormonism. His writings may be of interest to you:

http://blairwatsontribute.net/Psychological/Effects_of_Mormonism.html



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2017 05:51PM by summer.

The second link was very enlightening. Thanks Summer.

Blair's work on the psychological effects of Mormonism has been very important and influential to the exmormon community. We need to remember to continue to bring it to the attention of recovering exmos.

I doubt that if you've been brainwashed, even a little bit by the mighty morg, you will always carry that thinking pattern around with you. It pops up when you least expect it to. It guides how you perceive others, how you make judgements, and becomes a part of what makes you, You. Over time, it diminishes somewhat, but never goes away. Even now, when I'm faced with a serious dilemma, my first thought is to pray for divine help. Yeah, like that will help.

It's culture. You were BIC. Have you ever thought about talking with other people like yourself? A therapist?

The TSCC robbed you and deprived you.

I think BYU Boner and Summer have given some good advice on interrupting and challenging thought processes that aren't serving you well.

And I want to add that even though I've been out of the church for well over 15 years, I still catch myself going down old thought paths in my brain or having emotional reactions that don't make sense (in the context of my current beliefs).

But it's much, much rarer than it was when I first left the church. It's been a conscious process of weeding out and retraining my thought process. Like weeds, some thoughts and emotions keep trying to grow back, because the roots grow deep and they keep reseeding. But also, like weeds, if you keep digging them out, and trying to get them by the roots, eventually they'll stop growing back. Perhaps if you replace those weeds with something better, the weeds will get choked out.

If you wanted to take the analogy further, imagine if you were trying to get the weeds out of your yard, but your neighbors yards were overgrown with them. It would be hard not to have some take root in your space.