My son believes and wants to serve a mission.
My husband is a RM and a believer. I attend church to give support to them.
I don't want to crush him by telling him what I know, but I don't want him to later wish I would have told him sooner.
Has anyone had this dilemma?
Advice with no sarcasm would be very appreciated.

Now. Quietly without a raised voice but with conviction. Prepare beforehand with written evidence. Allow for questions and discuss a second meeting, then third, then .....Also prepare for both resistance and push back from spouse.
Gatorman

I have not had this dilemma but this is how I would approach it.

I would probably start to talk about how important I think it is to recognize that the church is not right for everyone. And that that is ok too. This opens the door to all kinds of other things but you don’ have to talk about everything at once. Just make sure he knows you love him and that whatever he chooses to believe, whether he chooses to serve a full mission, a 3 month mission, or no mission at all, you will love him.

I agree.

I had this talk with my 13 year old daughter (and I should have had it with older children much earlier--I finally got enough courage) and my 18 year old son just before he left on his mission. I also included much of the above with him.

For both, I prefaced it all with the fact that many in the church feel free to share their convictions and testimonies...and it's OK. Like them, but opposite from them as well, I have mine and want to share it.

Calmly, as the above poster describes.

I would say the time to tell him is now.

I would focus on facts.

Maybe give him the "CES Letter" and ask him to read it and discuss it with him afterwards.


Edit: Perhaps approach it by saying to your son that you've read the CES letter and were concerned that you couldn't answer some of the issues it raised, maybe he could read it and help you to figure it all out?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2017 09:07AM by Darren Steers.

Darren Steers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would say the time to tell him is now.
>
> I would focus on facts.
>
> Maybe give him the "CES Letter" and ask him to
> read it and discuss it with him afterwards.


I wholeheartedly agree with this. Let the boy read on his own and be ready to answer hard questions. But will this cause a rift in your marriage?

I like the idea of discussing the CES letter. I was also thinking about A Letter to My Wife. I think he would see through the approach of "Help me figure out responses/answers to the issues". So, I think I will print out 2 copies to read together, going over one issue at each session. I will add a place on each copy to take notes.

I wish someone had told me the facts when I was 16.
Then I wouldn't have wasted 2 years of my life trying to sell a cult.

I agree. The time is now.

Does your husband know of your non-belief? If not, I would break the news to him first. If husband knows, I'd also let him know that I could no longer deceive son, prior to "talking with son."

I would approach both, each of them, from a standpoint of living authentically.

When you believed, you were an authentic believer. I'm sure you would like to enjoy authenticity in your own home, now that your beliefs have evolved.

That's the direction I would take. You attend church to be supportive, but are you a recipient of such consideration? I don't ask this flippantly; I ask because the rigid, unhealthy walls (cage) of moism would not normally allow non-attendance.

That inability to bend, negotiate, compromise, breathe and move within an ever-evolving life - and within relationships, is the model I would try to tackle first. You matter, and have rights as an individual, and one expectation I have in relationships is honesty. If you hide who you are, you offer the other person a chance to love only an illusion of you.

What I'm trying to say is don't "tell" your son, but *show* him, and present (as in "gift") a peaceful, calm - even joyous - model of how to live and love, while being true to yourself. His questions will come naturally, and when he asks, be respectfully honest, and insist on mutual respect.**

You can attend to be supportive, but you can also be clear that that's what your doing - being a sharer of the time. "I'm not going this Sunday, because I would rather not."

No excuses, no fake illnesses, but the authentic you. Be honest in stating your alternative plans - vegging on the couch, brunch in town, whatever.

It's not unreasonable to have some expectation that they (husband and son) also "share" that time with you, in your beliefs, feelings and desires.

"Is it possible that we take a weekend trip to the [beach, cabin, mountains] and skip church?"

I'll close with this thought:


"But mom, I don't really want to go on a mission, but how do I keep the peace with dad and my friends if I don't go? It's not fair, and I hate the thought of going, but I don't know how to face them, especially dad, if I don't go."


You have less than two years to *show* him how it's done. **Be prepared for some possibly harsh words from your son's not-yet-developed brain. His black/white/live forever (and mo indoctrination) thinking limits are likely to be things not easily expanded, but now is a better time to start rather than later, or never starting. Remain calm, mutual respect required.

Only you know yourself, your family, and the ways you might start to break and move the unhealthy bars of the cages imposed by moism, in your own home. You need to show your son and husband your wings. The wings that shelter, comfort and nurture them are the same ones used to fly free.

Peaceful, joyful and authentic transition thoughts flowing in your direction.

My husband does know how I feel and think about the church. He will likely always be a believer because of the spiritual confirmations he has received from the Holy Ghost.
He is disappointed that our oldest son did not serve a mission, so he is really proud that our 16 year old has a mission as his goal.
My son knows I have issues with the church too. He just does not know why. I have not been sure when to talk to him about it. I am so grateful for the advice I've received here!



Thank you for your wishes for a peaceful, joyful, authentic transition.

Ask thought provoking questions he will likely face on his mission from people like me and encourage him to really research before answering. And be prepared to offee him a better alternative to the simplistic doomsday narrative we inherited.
Like what? You ask?
Why did the church restrict Africans from entering the temple prior to 1978 when you dont need the priesthood to enter a temple?
And what made it acceptable for Joseoh Smith and Brigham Young to "marry" their followers wives, like Zina Jacobs, wife of Henry, not Joseph and Brigham, who Fathered a child with her regardless?
And Why do Mormons have a picture of an Pagan fertility God with an eraction Identified simply as "God" in their scriptures?
BoA,
Fax2
Fig7



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2017 09:50AM by koriwhore.

Great questions. Thanks!

"And what made it acceptable for Joseph Smith and Brigham Young to "marry" their followers wives, like Zina Jacobs, wife of Henry, not Joseph and Brigham, who Fathered a child with her regardless"?

This is the issue that broke my shelf.

I wanted to add to what I said above...

My dad was completely inactive when I was 16. And he and my mom had recently divorced, mostly because TBM mom's bishop told her that she either needed to reactivate my dad (which wasn't going to happen) or divorce him and find herself a faithful priesthood-holding husband, or she'd never get into the CK.

Dad didn't want to "force" issues with us kids. He didn't want his ex-wife denying him access to us kids because he was trying to "lead us astray." So he kept his mouth shut, pretended he was happy about our church activities, and didn't rock the boat.

After I left (just after returning from my wasted 2 years of a mission), he and I went fishing one Sunday. Sitting out on the boat in San Diego bay, having a beer, I asked him why he left the church, and why he didn't tell me about it before I went on a mission.

"I left because I couldn't believe the nonsense," he said. He then spent 5 minutes ridiculing the gold plates, the BoM stories, the "first vision," polygamy (which we were both products of), etc.

"I didn't tell you because I was scared to death your mother would yank you kids away from me forever if I did," he finished.

I understood. But I still wish he'd told me.

Wow! I'm so sorry you're mother received that direction about her marriage to your father, Also, am sad for what it did to your family.

I wonder if my husband has received that counsel. I will have to ask him, for sure!

I really believe my son should make an informed choice about serving a mission. Free agency, right? How can one be a free agent without complete and necessary information?

U can only do this While he's 16....

But she could procrastinate, then ask next year, "When to tell 17 year old son the facts" LOL

No, I can do it when he is 17, but 18 is too late. I'm trying to decide when is best.

mrsnotasiplanned Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No, I can do it when he is 17, but 18 is too late.
> I'm trying to decide when is best.


Now is best. Not later, not next year.

I wish at 16 that I could have heard something other than the only "acceptable" version of "truth" that I had been force-fed from birth.

I guess you are weighing your current relationship with your son opposed to what it could turn into with the truth in the picture? That is a hard choice. I would dig deep and imagine yourself and your son and grandchildren years and years from now and ask yourself what was the right decision. You are also probably wondering if your husband is going to come unglued. Tough situation.

If you tell him, tell him as well how difficult this is for you as your relationship with him is the most important thing in your life, but you need him to know who you really are if the relationship is to mean anything. The decision to accept the information you impart is still his.

When I was 15 my mother began having adult conversations with me. I think we are still more open at those ages. I knew what was happening when suddenly my opinion counted. That was good. I wonder if she had been a non believer if I would have taken her seriously. I would say yes. I loved her too much not to.

My biggest concern is hurting him. I know he will hurt from the truth, because after years of questioning and finally resolve, I still hurt.

Every TBM eventually hits the wall. You have a chance to soften the blow.

I would also like to add that I hate the Mormon Church for and in behalf of mrsnotasiplanned who has been put in this unfair situation by said cult. That's my temple proxy of the day.

A long tale, but it has a point. I had been a participating, non-believing, non-garmie-wearing, semi active member before I finally resigned. In fact, I taught my last relief society lesson then went and handed my resignation letter to the bishop.

I had stayed in because I was a single mother and the ward was incredibly wonderful to my 16-year-old son. The young men's leaders had really taken him under their wing and I knew they sincerely cared about him. He was the Priest quorum president and people who didn't know me well, just knew me as D's mother. I lived in Provo where our ward was 4 blocks by 3 blocks and I lived on the corner near the church. My son had gone to Tennessee to spend the summer with his Dad and I knew that after it became known that I'd resigned, everyone was keeping an eye on my house so they could pounce on my son when he got home to make sure he still felt welcome at church and stayed active.

I hadn't told my son what had happened over the summer so I knew I had to tell him before he got home. So I had my speech all planned, picked him up at the SLC airport and took him out for a nice dinner and broke the news that I had resigned. I told him that I would still go to church with him if he wanted me to, I would support him in whatever church activities he wanted to be involved in, blah blah blah, but that all I asked was that he respect the decision I made for me. I thought he'd be mortified. I thought I'd have a lot of questions and a lot of explaining to do. Instead, he looked at me and said, "does this mean I don't have to go to church if I don't want to?" I was like, "well, yeah." And he said "well I don't want to." Then got off the subject real quick and we started talking about our summers.

Years later he told me that since he'd become a Priest, he felt so much pressure to prepare for a mission. I guess several people in the ward told him that if his mother couldn't support him on a mission, they would. His grandparents had told him they'd help, along with the bishop saying the ward would help. He was being pressured to enroll in Seminary again because he had to be ready for his mission. And he said he had absolutely no desire whatsoever to go. And mostly he didn't know what to say to his grandparents. He was so relieved--at that time not because he did or didn't believe in the church, but that he wanted an excuse not to go on a mission. And his mom leaving was a good one, they could blame it all on me. He also told me that at school "all the guys his age" talked all the time about how they could get out of going and how they didn't want to go but knew they'd have to. I doubt it was really all of them, but obviously it was a good number since it was Provo High.

So, point being, there is a good chance your son would love someone to talk to about whether or not he really wants to go on a mission and to know he has someone in his corner if he doesn't want to. Although you need to be prepared to tell him that if he convinces you that he really wants to go, for him and for no one else, you'll be there to support him. And you'll be there if he decides it's not for him and needs to pack it in.

^^^^. This post is a great gift. To Many I would say.

I didn't even know why I was going on a mission. There was just this strong current I was caught up in. I didn't even realize at the time that all I wanted was to get to shore.

Beautiful NormaRae. Well done! I so wish my parents would have done the same for me.

I'm glad you have a great relationship with your son. I'm sure you were happy to relieve his pressure.

My son does not feel pressure. He wants to go. I'm not sure what he will want to do once we discuss the issues in depth. He may still want to go, and if he does, I will support his decision.

I would have died to have known the facts at 16 years old. No one was telling the truth around me back then and i could feel it, i really did need that one adult to tell me the facts it would have spaired me so much suffering.

I wish people would have been honest with you too.

I wish I knew at a young age too. I looked at the church as a solution to everything. If I just do this, and this, and this, and...my life and eternity will be perfect. Not so, as we know.

At 16, I wish that I would have received a special rock; with a hat to go with it. Seriously.

All I got were a bunch of tie tacks with that goofy horn player and my very own triple. Oohh! I was so special.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2017 01:26PM by messygoop.

This is so funny, and I am now considering this idea. Seriously.

I wouldn't have gone on a mission. I think it's really a crazy idea to serve a mission TODAY with so much truth accessible through google. When your own church has admitted to being less than honest (essays), how can you reason it?

The church had it easy to kick it a few intellectuals and apostates prior to the instant information age. How can they control their tainted image now? They can't. :D

"My husband is a RM and a believer. I attend church to give support to them."

Does your husband know you are just going along with Mormonism?

Yes.

It disappoints him, but he has accepted it. Once in a heated discussion, he told me he will be assigned someone else in the Celestial Kingdom. Marital assignments? That doesn't sound like heaven to me!

Even if he's in seminary, he probably hasn't thought of or heard of different versions of the first vision. Or the history of what happened to the witnesses, Joseph Smith's family, Mormon Militias, Danites, Whistling Company, Kirtland land/bank frauds, etc...

So the first thing I would do, as opposed to the CES letter which is only presenting a large number of facts; send him to humorous sites like "Brother Jake" http://www.askbrotherjake.com/

Or have him listen to some of the parodies and conferences on http://infantsonthrones.com/
Enjoy some of their songs and then discuss why they're so funny... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbE_hxcwWIw&list=PLy1UECRaEEyWhOl4qzDpo3WUM6Yk9MHSK


Have him watch some of the personal Mormon Stories videos on CES teachers and why they left. If he's into history or reality stories...the John Hamer Mormon Stories that explains real history of Restoration Religions (Seventh Day Adventist, Jehovah Witness, Church of Christ [Campbellites] Christian Scientists and the multiple Mormon churches. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoHVekL25WI&t=2432s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YmLqsSgq3Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFza0c3CRDA


Now the best one(s) is using Family Home Evening and going over some of the LDS Essays. Discuss. Why? Because your own husband probably doesn't know the real reason Blacks couldn't hold the priesthood or that Joseph Smith was having sex with young girls (Fannie Alger) almost a decade before he proclaimed the revelation in D&C 132



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2017 04:39PM by dydimus.

This is great advice, thank you! I will definitely start with the videos before the essays.

Your husband can't object, they are on lds.org. The list is here - http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1180178 I would print one out, read it yourself and perhaps make some notes on it. Leave it where your son will see it. Maybe bring something up to him about it. That you are learning things you never were told in church and does he know about this? And this? And that? Just try to get the dialog going.

Thank you for the link. I am going to use the essays.

Thank you everyone. Your advice has helped me tremendously. I have a plan now, and have decided to start once the holidays are over. Thanks again!

The sooner the better.

I would print and give him a link to:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B18W3AgWXw6zMUllRW85bXc0RWc/view

CES Letter too.

Tell him you will love and respect him whether he chooses to stay Mormon or not but that you want him to be informed of the problems which every Mormon has a right to know.

To be/sound fair (no pun intended), encourage him to read the apologetics too such as FAIRLDS.org. That way you won't be accused of just feeding him lies and that you encouraged him to see the Mormon "answers" to the "Anti" stuff.

If he really reads those documents, then he will be more than enough aware of the issues and it will then be in his hands what chooses to do with that info.

Now. Bit by bit, or all at once--whatever you think will work best.

My sister could have helped me out years earlier, but she didn't want to be responsible for 'ruining' my testimony. It wasn't really about me, she was just looking out for her own hyperactive sense of guilt. When I started voicing my doubts, she was willing to confirm them.

My hubby lied by omission. He never believed, but married me in the temple. To this day, he doesn't want to talk about it. I can understand somewhat, but when I was miserable and complaining about church crap, you'd think he'd feel compelled to simply state that his inactivity was due to disbelief, not laziness or general distaste for all things church.

Even if he's hurt and it puts a strain on your relationship, the truth is so important. Someday, hopefully, he'll be out. I still feel some anger for people who knew the truth and kept quiet.

Way Before 17/ today. Quote and reference. Show-teach him that tscc is in apostasy. That it's purposefully designed that way. That EVEN YOU were fooled at one time. That autonomy/ sovereignty is crucial for the developing of self-expression/ individuality and is not possible (allowed) within momonism's rigid, stifling framework.

M@t