I was born into the church but my family wasn't active. When I was ordained a deacon I went regularly like all of my friends. Then went to the temple two days before I got married. That was a real shock to me, but I went along with it because everyone around me was doing the rituals. My new wife and I found an apartment in the ward I grew up in so we went to church and the temple with people I had known all my life. I studied hard to catch up with those raised in active homes. I read the BoM but had a hard time with many things. But I went along to get along. Had a hard time with the older dudes who were condescending & patronizing because I came from an inactive family. Had an even harder time with life in general because of a lifelong anxiety disorder (which I didn't know about until about three years ago - I thought I was just psycho rather than having brain chemistry problems - maybe it's the same thing, who knows). I internalized all my stress which caused depression for many years. Four or five years ago I started getting 'real' answers from the internet and reading unauthorized books that told the truth about JS and the history of the church. I resigned when I was 64. Now I'm kicking myself every day for believing for so long. Other people on this board caught on quickly to the fraud, but I didn't. This issue is very stressful. How can I get over constantly putting myself down?

I was a slow learner, too.

Me, three.

I am working on a theory that the more selfish and egotistical the individual, the more likely the individual will NOT stick with 'unhappy' situations. Of course this is based on being less needful for approval from others.

I for one am happy to confess being selfish and subject to extreme egoism (yes, egoism, not egotism), and I use this to explain my early exit.

Anyone got data to confirm or modify/refute this basic tenet?

Anyway, back to you, Tom... You were just too nice a guy! Way to not be a shit-head, like me!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2017 02:51PM by elderolddog.

But I sure feel like a shithead. And I was always one that needed the approval of others.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2017 02:49PM by Tom Padley.

Congratulate yourself. So many never figure it out, or if they do, don't have the guts to admit it. It's been interesting to read about other cults and the power they have over the mind. There's a reason these tactics have been used for hundreds, maybe thousands of years... they work. Except on people who insist on thinking for themselves. Be gentle with yourself, standing up for truth when you're bucking your tribe over it isn't easy!!

I'm too old and decrepit to pat myself on the back and kick myself in the butt and the same time. I'd fall down and hurt myself.

Thanks for the comment!

I think it was Summer who said once, "When you know better, you do better."

People of our age didn't have access to facts and real history of the church until fairly recently (at least for me, anyway.)

I resigned when I was 62. Lotta years, lotta money that I believed was going for good causes.

I'll tell you what we told minimum-risk probation minors who couldn't get over the guilt and shame for silly things they had done. We reminded them:

"YOU DID NOT KIDNAP THE LINDBERGH BABY!!"

Better late, than never (and don't say, 'better never late--it doesn't fit here).

I've heard (and practice), that when one's not-wanted thoughts come into my head, I immediately think STOP, and change the subject to something I have planned as a good old stand-by to think about instead (such as what to fix for dinner, reading a good book, calling a friend, etc). Oh, yeah---and visit RfM.

And, altogether, think about how much strength you've show to have broken the old 'gotta do what I was programed to do'. That should make you proud of yourself, and bring a smile to your face.

:)

I had to be mistreated to become inactive, but then I think that the people who I met in college made me realize that there was a life outside the cult.
So when I made my research 4 months after became inactive, I wasn't brainwashed enough to believe all the apologetic's BS and I figured out what the cult really was.

Is your wife still a TBM?
@elderolddog. Hmm, interesting concept but I think its the other way around. I met a lot of people (especially relatives) that were egoists that can't or won't admit to the failings of the church. Maybe you are just a thinker. I admire people that can look at a subject subjectively and change their views based on the evidence.

Don't feel guilty, Tom. Most of us would still believe in Santa Claus if those around us went to such extremes to perpetuate the myth as are done to keep up the myth of Mormonism.

I met her at an exmo conference in line for drinks at the bar. She had had only one drink prior to this in her life, a strawberry daquerie. I helped her decide on her this second drink, a banana daquerie. She said she was glad for any time she had left to enjoy being a non-mormon. What an inspiration she was.

I'm proud of you for having the courage to leave. It takes guts at any age.

It took me almost 40 years to realize I was being scammed. It was a joy not to have to pay tithing! Like the 80 year old woman, I am grateful for the years I have left to not be a Mormon.

Congratulations to you Tom. You finally were able to kick the habit of following the myth. HUGS.

I too, followed like a sheep, even feeling discontent and chaos as I tried to play the role of good TBM. I followed so many false premises. Finally after 40 years, I took back my power, took responsibility for ME and have never been happier.

Every time a thread like this appears I congratulate the original poster for overcoming almost insurmountable odds to
personal change. The thread reminds me of the Carl Sagan quote that exlains the whole thing:

“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

Healed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Every time a thread like this appears I
> congratulate the original poster for overcoming
> almost insurmountable odds to
> personal change. The thread reminds me of the Carl
> Sagan quote that exlains the whole thing:
>
> “One of the saddest lessons of history is this:
> If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to
> reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no
> longer interested in finding out the truth. The
> bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too
> painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that
> we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan
> power over you, you almost never get it back.”

Thanks for that quote by one of my heroes. Bamboozled it is a great word to describe what happened to me. This post makes me feel a lot better!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2017 10:58AM by Tom Padley.

Remind yourself that we were told....

MORMONISM = ETERNAL LIFE PLUS COMMUNITY which is then...

tied up beautifully in red wrapping paper stamped with the words (which we did not yet understand) MIND CONTROL MIND CONTROL MIND CONTROL over the entire paper.

We were all VICTIMS of this powerful and evil force which had the goal of owning us....our thoughts, our actions and our $$$$.

To gain trust and truth to break free from this MIND CONTROL takes COURAGE....a lot!!!

You did it!!! I did it!!! All of us Ex's did it!!! Congrats to all of us!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2017 12:28AM by presleynfactsrock.

You're definitely not alone there. I was a convert and stayed in the Church for 30 years before I discovered the truth.

I saw a sign at a hospital counter yesterday saying, "Forget the mistake, remember the lesson". I kind of puzzled over how to do both simultaneously. I am one who remembers and cogitates and relives mistakes so the regret or embarrassment or shame kind of all piles up over the years. My goal from a young age was to live so as to have no regrets. Uh. Not humanly possible?

I joined the JWs as a mid-teen after leaving home (as my family moved out of the city and I didn't want to leave my school in the middle of a year). My parents didn't say they were opposed (they were but didn't tell me; I kind of wish they had said something - I had no clue there was anything to take a second look at or that it may not be the best idea to leap into something I didn't know much about).

I have felt very embarrassed about subsequently getting into Mormonism (like it took me twice to learn the same lesson) but not about the first foray into religion with the JWs. I enjoyed it far more than Mormonism (for me, not so mind-bending) and had a lot of friends there (unlike Mormonism; I was too different and understood nothing). Also, I was young and hey, you live and learn.

I think that with BICs, even in inactive families, the church still exerts enormous influence, which one may not realize. I was just speaking to my mom today about how your DNA must remember things that exert influence in our lives (in this case I was speaking of Irish music I feel drawn to, with love and yearning that I can't explain). She told me how my Irish grandmother used to sing to me as a baby and that she had a lovely lilting voice. I wondered about whether my inner being somehow remembered that even though I was too young to have an actual memory of it. But maybe she implanted it into me and it's active in me as an adult. Perhaps even in inactive Mormon families the stories and beliefs and scriptures and words and expressions all kind of crowd into one's being and affect how a BIC approaches life, even outside the church.

I could be on the wrong track but maybe in some instances that could happen. I mean, why would you go to only that church, if you were independently interested in religion? Many kids do tend to veer towards their family's church of choice without checking out alternatives. They may have subconsciously filed away the message that it's the best or right one to go to.

So I wouldn't say that just because your family didn't attend you should have known better. The influence was still there, and maybe it gets warped in some ways when a family is inactive but still has influence, perhaps even more negative.

As I get older and so have a wider perspective I am seeing how early experiences and messages go forward with us through our lives, despite our own intentions and wishes (such as trying to shake off bad messages or trying to give ourselves a break on some mistakes). That is one reason too why it's so tough to get over negative experiences. Negatives always seem to cling more than positives. If a repeated refrain as a child is that you must behave in this or that way in order to be a good person that will stick and be hard to dislodge. Mormonism will do that to you. Even if you don't believe the doctrine, it seems, you can feel like you're falling short, from all the times you heard what you really need to do to measure up.

I feel like I'm the one who should be berating myself for being so stupid as to fall for the conversion message not once but twice. And neither place, WatchTower or Mormon Church, was anything near right for me. I think BICs of any sort are bright and brave to get out at all. I hope you can give yourself credit for that.

And I wish you well.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2017 01:05AM by Nightingale.

Thanks Nightingale. Much appreciated.

I resigned last year, at 47...and looking back all I can say is that it seemed like I was in a dream. I could not have done this all those years, but I suddenly woke up.

Well, it took time. The first phase was doubt. Then I broke loose and went inactive...and finally sent my letter of resignation. It was a long process and I'm summarizing here very generally, but the bottom line is that I couldn't have left completely until I went through this process.

I feel stupid, too, for being in for so long. But like you and so many others it just took time. The end result is what matters. Be glad that you are free.

Thank you for this thread, Tom Padley. There is good advice on here, which I need, too. I, like you, have been brainwashed to internalize guilt and blame for EVERYTHING. That's what Mormonism is all about: holding victims hostage through fear and threats, guilt, and blame--all for money--for stupid money!

None of us turned out to be as crazy as the Mormons wanted us to believe we were. If depression is a result of your "brain chemistry" problem, this is very different than being schizophrenic or losing touch with reality. That is psychosis. The Mormons are the ones who are out of touch with reality.

You wrote:
"Now I'm kicking myself every day for believing for so long. Other people on this board caught on quickly to the fraud, but I didn't. This issue is very stressful. How can I get over constantly putting myself down?"

Read it again. You are beating yourself up! This makes you depressed, and then you beat yourself up again for being depressed! I have been there.

Truly, I think you are incorrect to say that "other people on this board caught on quickly...." Most of us were brainwashed for years, for a lifetime. Most of us were BIC. The ones who converted, think that they did it "willingly", and they blame themselves for being stupid and easily duped. No--all of us were kept in the cult by a constant barrage of threats and lies and false promises, "reconverting" us over and over again, each time we questioned. We are not to blame. The Mormons are.

The Mormons play dirty. They hide the truth. They are practiced, master manipulators. Often our own parents and spouses were the most manipulative of all. We can't be blamed for that.

As everyone agrees--you are courageous and fine, to see the Truth, and do something about it! There is no time-frame on courage like that!

Congratulations!

AfraidOfMormons Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Truly, I think you are incorrect to say that
> "other people on this board caught on quickly...."
> Most of us were brainwashed for years, for a
> lifetime. Most of us were BIC. The ones who
> converted, think that they did it "willingly", and
> they blame themselves for being stupid and easily
> duped. No--all of us were kept in the cult by a
> constant barrage of threats and lies and false
> promises, "reconverting" us over and over again,
> each time we questioned. We are not to blame.
> The Mormons are.
>
> The Mormons play dirty. They hide the truth.
> They are practiced, master manipulators. Often
> our own parents and spouses were the most
> manipulative of all. We can't be blamed for
> that.
>
> As everyone agrees--you are courageous and fine,
> to see the Truth, and do something about it!
> There is no time-frame on courage like that!
>
> Congratulations!


I really appreciate your calling me out on generalizing that most other people on this board caught on quickly. I do tend to generalize and it becomes self-deprecation - a big part of my problem. My original post has created so much support. I am overwhelmed. Thanks to all!

I was in my mid to late 30's by the time I figured out it was a fraud and deception.

In my late 50's now, and you'd think I'd be over it, right?

Still I find myself questioning its validity even though I know intellectually and intuitively what a crock it is.

Why is that so? Maybe because like you I was born into it, and raised a Mormon. When it's all you've ever known it takes a paradigm shift to make a clean break. I'm still waiting for mine.

Two of my siblings are still brainwashed TBM's to this day. They are mopologists. Both are well educated, with families they raised in the cult.

Despite their schooling they have not been able to exercise their critical thinking skills to the point of studying their way out of the lies and distortions made up by Joseph and later Brigham. They rationalize to conform their beliefs to the modern day teachings no matter what evidence they've been presented.

Their reasoning is to justify the church's existence at all costs, including that of honor and virtue.

Honestly though, I think they feel safer living a lie than accepting the reality.. both their wives are more or less cultural Mormons, who go along to get along and to appease their very Mormon families they grew up in.

My parents temple marriage came apart by time we were teenagers. One of my TBM brothers (the oldest sibling,) was on his mission during that time. The youngest like the oldest clung to the church for want of a security blanket when our familial support system unraveled. To them that is the equivalent of a family substitute. Whether the church is true or not wouldn't make any difference to either of them. It's all they care to know and accept as the 'gospel' truth.

They blame our parents divorce on their unfaithfulness to gospel teachings. I blame my parents divorce at least in part on the unrealistic demands made of them while they tried living the gospel principles, all 99 gazillion of them. Between that and those crazy temple rituals my parents had to go through during their marriage, (and those ugly as sin temple garments they had to wear for underwear - I vowed as a child I wouldn't wear those when I grew up!) it just added to the chaos in an already chaotic home life. Dad was still a closet alcoholic during their TBM years. And our mom was addicted to prescription narcotics to cope with her life.

For me it was our family dysfunction that later helped me to recognize the dysfunction in the church itself. It fosters dysfunctional relationships - and for those like my father they became inter-generational - my dad was a fifth generation Mormon from pioneer stock. Each of his brothers like my dad were alcoholics. Their parents were TBM true blue throughout their lives - they served a couples mission in their senior years near their home in SE Idaho. They however enabled my dad and his brothers to imbibe, because gramps drank whiskey as a younger man and father while raising his family LDS. And grandma drank wine as medicine for her heart, so the family lore goes. I've tried to decide if either of their parents had the drinking gene. Maybe they both did? For the Mormon pioneers the WoW wasn't strictly enforced until around the 1940's. Before then the Mormons drank coffee and liquor and could stil hold temple recommends.

I understand how you feel; I was caught up in the cult for nearly 50 years. When I was 18, I started working in the COB in the historical department. Some of the things that I saw and heard should have been red flags, but starry-eyed me didn't see it. When we went through the temple with our youngest daughter, the first thing she said afterwards was "this is an effin' cult!" My reply? "I know it seems strange, but it's ancient stuff and the more you come to the temple the more comfortable you'll become." Brother! My kids and my husband were on to it before I ever caught up. I was one of the few that left because of being offended. After I walked out of a SS class, I started looking up information such as the CES letter, " Latter Day Swindle", and " No Man Knows My History". Then I found the archives of RfM and then this phorum. Looking back, I can see that if ward members hadn't been rude and offensive, we would still be in the depressing church. Congratulations for being able to wake up and see the truth; there are so many that refuse to see the truth.

It took me a few decades to figure it out. I was BIC and I got out when I was 40. I felt like such a dummy. Mind you, I do have my BS degree and when I was in the USAF I had scored a perfect 100 in mechanical and electronics on my ASVAB. I went to my 11-month tech school in electronic warfare and maintained a 99.7% gpa. I know several smart people who were close friends who still remain in the church. One of them has a Phd from Stanford. The church dupes smart people too.

BTW I no longer have any contact with my "smart" friends in the church.

It is tough to go against everyone you love and all of your friends...people you have known your whole life and face the truth about the cult.

You should cut yourself some slack for spending so much time in it. You figured your way out of a horrible controlling cult and that is no easy feat. I want to congratulate you and shake your hand and offer you a drink. What you did was difficult by any standard.

Don't beat yourself up over decisions made long ago. Every decision seems like the right one at the time it's made. ALMOST nobody thinks, "This seems like a really stupid idea" and then goes ahead with it anyway. I say ALMOST because there are a few.

Your experience in the temple of "a real shock to me, but I went along with it because everyone around me was doing the rituals" is not uncommon. I had the same feeling when I went. That is why they have you go into the temple unprepared and surrounded by friends and family. They're counting on your sense of shock and peer pressure to make you continue with the ceremony. Do you really think very many people would go through the LDS temple if they knew ahead of time what the ceremony entails?

You were deceived by a group of people who have almost 200 years of experience manipulating and deceiving people. You had no skills or training to allow you to see through the deception but you eventually figured it out. Be proud of that.

Now go on and enjoy your life without the burden of being Mormon.

I hear you. Even after ten years, I have never admitted it t anyone but my closest friends.

The older you were when you caught on, the more amazing you are. Quite the opposite of being down on yourself, you deserve a medal. Trust me, in time you quit beating yourself up. You laugh and think "where was my brain," even as you morn the part of yourself you missed all those years.

When I first moved to where I live now from Utah, I was afraid to tell people I was a former mormon. I was so embarrassed and knew people were thinking, "HOW could anyone ever buy into that nonsense?" And even now, I'll get telling something about mormonism or answering someone's question and I think that to myself. Sometimes I'll say "I know what you're thinking... how..." and they'll usually say, "No, I think it's fascinating that you were able to see through it after so many years."